Author Topic: Where did you go to college?  (Read 17753 times)

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Offline gregariz

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 07:22:46 pm »
One thing I would suggest, if you are thinking about an engineering degree, is to pick one of the "hard" disciplines like electrical, mechanical or chemical engineering. Avoid the the "soft" disciplines like software engineering. Software honestly doesn't gain much respect in business or industry and considering the costs involved a software engineering degree is not good value for money. If there is one subject that is easily self-taught, it is programming.

This is the kind of BS you'll get from hiring people if you apply for a position sans degree.  The gap between a true software engineer and a programmer is the same as the difference between an electrical engineer and a bench tech or a mechanical engineer and a mechanic.  A lot of people call themselves "Software Engineers" because they've taught themselves Java, or because they're experts at writing C# apps,  but have no real concept about how the code they produce actually fits into the bigger system - that's where engineering comes in. 

It took software engineering a long time to get accepted within a number of engineering organizations because of the scepticism with which it was/is viewed. I think probably the OP was thinking in terms of the requirements within many companies where the software exercise is not so complicated as to require all of the skills that a software engineering degree may provide - but rather a somewhat more straightforward programming exercise to complement a bigger system design. All engineering degrees require that the student study some level of programming, but without the breadth you will find in a software engineering program.

But these are the types of arguments I've seen surrounding various 'new' types of engineering ever since I can remember. I have come to the sad conclusion that engineering is no longer a profession, just a wide disperse vocation. When you hire someone with an engineering degree you never know what you are going to get, its just a pot shoot. Most are just hackers who know alot about one very narrow thing - usually programming microcontrollers, cutting some code or some similiar embedded system. I've seen everything from botanists to biologists hacking code and embedded systems. Finding a good engineer that could properly design a mildly complex transistor circuit or god forbid a $2 transistor radio without hacking an existing circuit is as rare as you like, let alone know how to also code or layout an embedded controller as well.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 07:27:46 pm by gregariz »
 

Online IanB

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2011, 06:53:40 am »
This is the kind of BS you'll get from hiring people if you apply for a position sans degree.  The gap between a true software engineer and a programmer is the same as the difference between an electrical engineer and a bench tech or a mechanical engineer and a mechanic.  ...
This kind of "BS" is however the prevailing reality in the market today. Many employers want only to employ mechanics or or techs at a lowly tech salary, but think they are getting the skills of an engineer. You don't want to be competing in that job market (unless you are happy to sell your skills for a minimum wage).

The reality is that software engineering does not have recognition or pedigree. There is no recognized professional institution for software engineering comparable to the IEEE, and few U.S. states have a software engineering P.E. qualification.

Trying tell that to the loads of super well paid brilliant software engineers at Google and Microsoft.  Software engineers are one of the most sought after and well paid engineers in this day and age.  It will probably only continue to increase as well.
This opinion is truly delusional. Please try getting a job at Google or Microsoft and report back to us on how that works out for you. Those companies and their ilk take on only a small fraction of the people looking for employment. Furthermore the likes of Google and Microsoft select for exceptionally smart people with good interview skills. A software engineering qualification is somewhat secondary when it comes to getting through their interview processes. (But being brilliant helps enormously.)

It took software engineering a long time to get accepted within a number of engineering organizations because of the scepticism with which it was/is viewed. ...
The trouble I think is that software engineering is still immature. What is worse, the industry gives little impression of knowing how to do what they are supposed to do. There is a never ending stream of ideas about how to fix the mistakes of the past and finally do software right, the latest being the whole raft of Agile methodologies. Other engineering disciplines don't have this problem. They know what they are supposed to do and how to do it, and they just get on with doing it.

Therefore I stand by my opinion. If you want to do software engineering, that's great. Working with software can be rewarding and fun. But don't make a software engineering degree your sole qualification and your only entry to this field. Study something stable and mature with professional recognition, and branch out from there. Make your foundation "software + X" rather than just "software", where "X" is an application domain that appeals to you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 01:29:43 pm by IanB »
 
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Offline gregariz

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2011, 08:29:31 am »
The trouble I think is that software engineering is still immature. What is worse, the industry gives little impression of knowing how to do what they are supposed to do. There is a never ending stream of ideas about how to fix the mistakes of the past and finally do software right, the latest being the whole raft of Agile methodologies. Other engineering disciplines don't have this problem. They know what they are supposed to do and how to do it, and they just get on with doing it.

Therefore I stand by my opinion. If you want to do software engineering, that's great. Working with software can be rewarding and fun. But don't make a software engineering degree your sole qualification and your only entry to this field. Study something stable and mature with professional recognition, and branch out from there. Make your foundation "software + X" rather than just "software", where "X" is an application domain that appeals to you.

I largely agree with you however I also think that 'electronic engineering' is in somewhat similar trouble, having splintered badly to the point as I said above - you never quite know what skillset one might have. And the IEEE/IET/IEAust appear clueless as to recommend a minimum design skillset that graduates should be required to express. The IEAust was that bad IMO that it appeared to ditch the whole concept that an engineer should actually be able to design anything at all instead focusing on basic science and management. In addition I have often worked with Mechanical Engineers who appear to me to have learn't little more than CAD and project management - but I suspect at least in that degree there is somewhat more of a standardized curriculum/educational outcomes.
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2011, 09:41:27 am »
Very few people graduate with ANY degree that makes them immediately valuable in ANY industry.  At best they understand enough basic concepts, tools, and "background" to become useful in "not too long", with training.  Not that there is a lot of unity about what constitutes "useful."  There are whole industries where knowing how to program in assembly language (ANY assembly language) is completely irrelevant, and you can probably learn one programming language per quarter and still be expected to write in something else when you get to your first employer...
 

Offline Time

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2011, 01:56:43 pm »
I guess watching Microsoft and Google wage insane job offer wars over several of my college and gradschool buddies would make me delusional.  Seems pretty common place to me.
-Time
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2011, 12:18:27 am »
It great to be able to hire people whose previous experience is exactly what you need, and it's great to be hired for a job where what you already know is valuable enough to have an employer offer you big bucks, but those aren't the usual cases.
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2011, 03:33:38 am »
I didn't attend college but joined the RAAF straight out of high school. There I studied electronics and became a radio technician working on airborne equipment. I got into computers as a customer engineer for Sperry Univac where all training was in house.
I got into software almost by accident. I was between jobsas an electronics technician  and a software support position came up. This was in the early days of personal computing (Tandy TRS-80). The requirements of that job were an electronics background and a proficiency in BASIC. I read a book on BASIC the night before the interview and bluffed my way through it. That was over 30 years ago and I've been doing software support, mostly operating systems, since then. All software training was on the job or self taught.
 

Offline ArcherShout

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2018, 11:39:00 am »
Hello everyone, I love studying, I have already finished school, I want to study in college in New York, I think there are some of the best colleges in the world, I need to write an essay for postgraduate at PapersOwl , this is a very important stage of work.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 09:04:35 am by ArcherShout »
Hello, I`m a young perspective student, I will be happy to communicate or chat with somebody.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2018, 12:49:31 pm »
Heriot-Watt. Nice campus out in the country. When I started it was in the city, and the new campus was just being built.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2018, 06:15:31 pm »
I haven't attended uni yet, and I really have no desire unless I get into some Ivy league school, I can't really find a school that can challenge me as much as I can myself, and I'm just out to seek knowledge, not some degree to bring in more money. I also feel that once EE becomes a chore, it might lose it's hobby sort of feel. Luckily I have some business ideas, and that would be full time CS and EE with my hobby projects (I feel anyone can agree that personal projects/ideas are much more thrilling than assigned tasks).

I think you have no idea of just how challenging a real engineering program can be.  Just the concurrent math curriculum is a challenge:  Calc I, Calc II, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, Fourier and Laplace Transforms and Field Theory (Maxwell's Equations).  I know I forgot something...

To these you can add with Physics I, Physics II, Statics, Dynamics and Heat Transfer plus, of course, the actual Electronics courses.  There are a few General Ed courses but, these days, engineering degrees take about 150 semester units or about 10 semesters (5 years) to complete.  Be thankful for the GE courses because they are the only easy courses on the list.  Unfortunately, they often have term papers involved.

My grandson is just getting started in ME and it's just about to get real.  He thinks he is going to have time for outside adventures and I keep telling him that there's a reason engineering students don't socialize and often wander around with glazed eyes mumbling to themselves.  All those engineer stereotypes that people laugh at?  They're all true!

And, yes, it IS about the money.  More money is better than less money.  It's really as simple as that!

The best part of all is knowing how stuff works.  Once you take Statics, you never look at a truss bridge or steel frame building the same way.  Newton's Second Law of Motion just keeps showing up!

Heck, I had to work through Bernoulli's Equation for stagnation pressure just to calibrate a speedometer (pressure gauge) for my small hydroplane.  Engineering shows up in the darndest places.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2018, 09:57:06 pm »
rstofer, the user in question hasn't been active in 2-1/2 years and the post is eight years old... I suspect he won't be able to hear you...  ;)

To the main topic at hand... EE at UnB (Universidade de Brasília) and incomplete EE MSc at Unicamp (Universidade de Campinas)
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2018, 11:12:14 pm »
rstofer, the user in question hasn't been active in 2-1/2 years and the post is eight years old... I suspect he won't be able to hear you...  ;)

My bad...  I NEVER look at the dates and, clearly, I should.

The forum should also refuse to reactivate zombie threads.  Anything over about 30 days should be left behind.  Alas, that probably won't happen.  And I'll continue to overlook the dates and I'll be right back in this situation.

A new user's very 1st post is to reactivate a 7 year old thread...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 11:14:05 pm by rstofer »
 
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Offline tpowell1830

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2018, 12:55:31 am »
To the OP: So, why don't you start it off by saying where you are from (no flag) and where you went to college?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 01:13:35 am by tpowell1830 »
PEACE===>T
 

Offline ferdieCX

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2018, 01:28:00 am »
Universidad del Trabajo del Uruguay - Engineer
Warsaw University of Technology - MSc
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2018, 01:44:38 am »
Trying tell that to the loads of super well paid brilliant software engineers at Google and Microsoft.  Software engineers are one of the most sought after and well paid engineers in this day and age.  It will probably only continue to increase as well.
This opinion is truly delusional. Please try getting a job at Google or Microsoft and report back to us on how that works out for you. Those companies and their ilk take on only a small fraction of the people looking for employment. Furthermore the likes of Google and Microsoft select for exceptionally smart people with good interview skills. A software engineering qualification is somewhat secondary when it comes to getting through their interview processes. (But being brilliant helps enormously.)

I haven't worked at Google or Microsoft, but I've worked for Mozilla and Samsung R&D and had an offer from Google (but I picked Samsung). I left Samsung earlier this year to join a chip designing startup.

Education: I was having a hard time deciding whether to do EE or computer science. In the end the decision was made because I didn't like Auckland or Auckland University[1] and so I decided on Computer Science with a good bit of maths and physics (including electronics) at University of Waikato in Hamilton, 1981-1984.

[1] programming assignments were done by submitting PUNCHED CARDS for the Burroughs 6700 and picking them up the next day .. ugh. At least Waikato had a couple of PDP-11s with lots of video terminals, and a VAX on order.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2018, 02:20:14 am »
To the OP: So, why don't you start it off by saying where you are from (no flag) and where you went to college?
rstofer, the user in question hasn't been active in 2-1/2 years and the post is eight years old... I suspect he won't be able to hear you...  ;)
My bad...  I NEVER look at the dates and, clearly, I should.
that was gamozo he probably find himself a challenging stuffs he got no more time posting. the OP otoh, that was 7 years ago and his last post was 5 years ago, he probably have 7 children by now. have you been bitten by the undead? you should meet project alice.

[1] programming assignments were done by submitting PUNCHED CARDS for the Burroughs 6700 and picking them up the next day .. ugh. At least Waikato had a couple of PDP-11s with lots of video terminals, and a VAX on order.
urrgh thats cheap and "unchallenging". i thought it'll be something like theory of string algorithm.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2018, 02:22:19 am »
Oklahoma State University  :)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline basinstreetdesign

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2018, 03:14:10 am »
I studied Pure and Applied Mathematics (and some undergraduate Computer Science), but there was a big Engineering Faculty there which included Electrical Engineering. That was the University of Waterloo in Ontario Canada.  ... C
Yeah, me too - class of '77.  As crazy as a time for me it was (it took me 6 2/3 years to do the 4 2/3 year curriculum) it was the best experience of my life.
STAND BACK!  I'm going to try SCIENCE!
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2018, 03:32:45 am »
It's a bit mind-boggling that the people graduating from college today were just starting high school (~14y old) when I first registered on EEVblog...
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2018, 04:22:19 am »
It's a bit mind-boggling that the people graduating from college today were just starting high school (~14y old) when I first registered on EEVblog...

I haven't been on EEVblog for long, but my domain name and email address are old enough to vote (or drink in NZ/Aus/UK).

I was on BYTE magazine's "BIX" message board more than 30 years ago and even turned up in "Best of BIX" in the back pages of the magazine from time to time.

It's over 25 years since I posted a list of funny MPW C error messages on comp.sys.mac.programmer https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.sys.mac.programmer/UkCjFPL4zEM/-lM87bJxPUcJ
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2018, 05:54:27 am »
Quote
It's over 25 years since I posted
You can find me (while I was at school, just to stay on-topic!) in here https://amaus.net/static/S100/MESSAGE%20BOARDS/SIMTEL%20CPM%20Message%20Archive/CPM/8105-1.TXT(same username.  Although thoughout my work-life I had something different...)
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2018, 08:49:33 am »
Quote
It's over 25 years since I posted
You can find me (while I was at school, just to stay on-topic!) in here https://amaus.net/static/S100/MESSAGE%20BOARDS/SIMTEL%20CPM%20Message%20Archive/CPM/8105-1.TXT(same username.  Although thoughout my work-life I had something different...)

May 1981, nice. I didn't have access to any international network until five years later.

I wonder if there's any publicly accessible archive of BIX from those days.
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2018, 01:25:34 pm »
My tech cert. was at DeVry 1977-8 (oh well, the school no longer exists..). They said I was youngest to enroll at 16 years old.
After burning $9,000 I failed by smoking too much pot and had to resume 2 years later at a place called Durham college.
Some people only learn well in the "real school" of "hard knock's"  |O
 

Offline Seekonk

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2018, 01:53:38 pm »
I worked with a guy and every time we got someone new in he would ask...Where did you get you get your education?   They would rattle off schools.  He responded... I didn't ask where you went to school, I asked where did you get your education.
 

Offline GregDunn

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Re: Where did you go to college?
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2018, 05:50:56 pm »
Rose-Hulman: https://www.rose-hulman.edu/

I've crossed paths with a number of people who are self-educated and have a mature understanding of engineering - and I wouldn't hesitate to work with them.  Sadly, there are also quite a few who think they can learn everything they need to know about engineering by wiring a few pre-designed circuits together.  Having started out by doing just that, it was an interesting step when I started learning the fundamentals of physics, electronics, etc.  There is quite a bit of content involved in laying the foundation of engineering; math first of all, then a basic knowledge of the physics of electricity: conductors, semiconductors, magnetic and electric fields - all essential if you are to see engineering as a discipline rather than a collection of assorted skills.

One of my friends pointed out that we attend a higher institute of learning not just to acquire knowledge, but to learn how to acquire knowledge.  That's a skill of its own, and much harder to get by following other peoples' instructions in a DIY book.  A mark of a good engineering education is that you can teach yourself things instead of needing a mentor or instructor; this is not something that most secondary schools emphasized - and certainly not today.  If you are well grounded in the basics, you can often build on top of that.  A good university/college level framework makes the path much easier.  I know, there were people who graduated with me who never really "got it" either, but they were at least exposed to the fundamentals.

And yes, "education" is a slightly different concept from "the courses you took in school".  The biggest part of my education came from being surrounded by people smarter than I was.  Being able to absorb the collective "cloud" of knowledge and abilities, and to get answers from people who were where you are years ago, is the true advantage of that environment.  Except in the very best jobs, you get more of that opportunity in school than anywhere else - and the better the school, the more you absorb.

And again, not to criticize the very capable technicians I worked with, but I could always tell when someone had engineering training (not necessarily schooling).  There was an overriding awareness of the full design evident in every aspect of their work - rather than just sticking together a bunch of working circuits.  I had the opportunity to chat with Steve Wozniak (the real brains behind Apple) a few times; while not formally trained in engineering at the time, he had a mature grasp of what engineering was about, at an early age.  His designs are efficient, complete and thoroughly debugged because he was capable of seeing the big picture before he started the design.  A good engineering program should endeavor to produce people like Woz, instead of people like Steve Jobs (met him too, not impressed).
 


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