Author Topic: Bought a Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope -true beginner- now learning  (Read 11648 times)

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Offline Dutch RC

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Edit: I bought a Rigol DS1054Z and fully unlocked it, Now trying to learn how everything works.

Hi all,

I'm a complete oscilloscope noob and have a few questions for you.

First some background details.
I'm from Holland 37yo trained as car mechanic when I was 16 with little electronics knowledge and now a process operator in a factory.
So just a little electronics knowledge.

My hobby is flying with drones and this is why I think I need an oscilloscope.

My plan is: Measuring FPV Camera latency like in this video

And I want to measure noise on the power system, Then reduce the noise in the video feed for better image.

I founf the video from Dave about the Rigol DS1054Z which looks a bit overkill for the things I want though because I don't know what else I can do with a scope and i want to get something future proof I think a 400/500 dollar limit should get me something very decent.

A local seller offers the Rigol for €400,- and for the same price they also offerd me a Owon XDS3064E. The standard specs look a little bit better for the Owon, So I searched for reviews and there aren't any.

Now my questions to you guys is this.

Do you have any advice for a scope up to 500 USD or should I pick the Rigol or Owon.
I'm aware you can get a old analog scope on Ebay though in my country I can't find any for a low price and when I can get one it's from another country and shipping is killing the fun.

Both are 4 channels, for now I need 2. For the future I don't know so 4 would be nice right?

Rigol DS1054Z https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/1000z/
Bandwidth 50 MHz
Sample rate 1GS/s (250 MS/s 4 channels, 500 MS/s 2 channels)
Memory 12 Mpts
Waveform capture rate 30.000 wfm/s
Display 7" TFT, 800x480 pixels 160,000 colors

Owon XDS3064E http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=195#sthash.tXx1juJT.dpbs
Bandwidth 60 MHz
Sample rate 1GS/s
Vertical resolution 8 bit
Memory 40 Mpts
Waveform capture rate 45.000 wfm/s
Display 8" LCD 800 x 600 pixels

The Rigol can be hacked and become a 100 MH/z one right?
For the specs I'd say get the Owon, my guts say get the Rigol because there are no reviews for the Owon. Open for suggestions!!

Many thanks for the comments and i'm looking forward to them,

Jasper

« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 08:01:29 am by Dutch RC »
 

Offline jpep

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 10:52:07 pm »
I got the Rigol DS1054Z myself and I`m quite happy with it.

The Siglent SDS1202X-E has been released recently in order to compete with the Rigol DS1054Z in that price range and also seems a good option. I would probably stay away from the Owon knowing that the DS1054Z has been so good value for the buck for everyone.

If you are buying in Europe, I got mine at batterfly.com and the service was good, they have both the Rigol and the Siglent, so you can also check in there.

 

Offline bd139

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 10:55:54 pm »
Another vote for the DS1054Z. Siglent is more expensive and less channels. Bandwidth it higher though but you'll likely not need anything quite as high as a beginner.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2017, 01:20:06 am »
Unfortunately, the Owon XDS models are over your budget:Also, it seems the decode protocols, touch screen and other interesting goodies are options, not standard.  :( And no idea if they can be unlocked/added yourself vs. buying the codes/hardware from Owon. :-//

Regarding the Rigol 1054Z:
  • Least expensive place to get it in the EU is from Batterfly for 327,95EUR with free shipping within the EU (here)*
  • They can be unlocked to obtain the following:
    • 100MHz
    • Memory doubles to 24M
    • All of the software features, such as the decode protocols and advanced triggering, are set to unlimited
For half the cost or less, the Rigol offers a lot more value for the money (which is why it's so popular with our members, me included  >:D). So you might want to take a serious look to see if you really need the specs of the XDS series at (the savings could go to something else you need).  ;)

* They offer bundles, such as adding a Hakko FX888D, FX888D + Extech EX330, and various Salae Logic models, so if you're in need and have the funds, give them a look. FWIW, they've the best prices I've seen in the EU.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 01:55:59 am »
I haven't heard anything about recent Owon scopes, but earlier models weren't recommended.

For the past year or so I've been using a Rigol DS1054Z mostly to work on bench power supplies, uninterruptible power supplies, function generators, audio amplifiers, and guitar effects. Most of the time two channels are enough, but I have occasionally used three. So, I'm glad I have a four-channel scope.

I haven't worked on drones, but since they have four motors I imagine there would be circumstances that would benefit from being able to monitor four signals.

The Rigol is by no means perfect, but since it's quite mature now, the firmware has had many revisions to fix things (i.e., no waiting for bugs to be squashed) as well as add new functionality. Repositioning traces up and down on the screen can be sluggish, but faster scopes have fewer channels, cost more, or both. If I had to go through the purchase process over again today, with the same budget, I'd still get the 1054Z.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 01:59:51 am by bitseeker »
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Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 03:59:49 am »
Unfortunately, the Owon XDS models are over your budget:Also, it seems the decode protocols, touch screen and other interesting goodies are options, not standard.  :( And no idea if they can be unlocked/added yourself vs. buying the codes/hardware from Owon.

They are pretty expensive there, I found them on a local website for less €395 60MHz & €495 100MHz http://www.eleshop.nl/owon-xds3064e-3104e.html

Though I see a lot of DS1054Z votes already, and I didn't know that the memory was also software unlocking.
 

Offline zeqing

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2017, 04:08:49 am »
DS1054Z  in my PCB  assembly house, 3 years.... works OK>  :)
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2017, 04:30:50 am »
Definitely better pricing than what I found.  :-+ You really need to sit down and see if you really need the improved specifications on the Owon or things like advanced triggers and protocol decoding that you get for free with the DS1054Z once unlocked (and it's still a little less expensive than the XDS3064E). If it turns out you do need the improved specifications, I'd suggest waiting a bit to allow for some reviews to surface (unless you like being a guinea pig  :P).

Regarding the importance of mature firmware vs. early revisions on a new product, I have to agree with bitseeker. Think of it this way; do you want to spend your time debugging your project, or trying to figure out if your scope is functioning properly or not?
 

Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 01:49:32 pm »
Thanks, though batterfly is without taxes

Sub-Totale:   327,95€
Trasporto TNT:   0,00€
IVA / VAT:   72,15€
Totale:   400,10€

Still cheaper than my local shop.
 

Offline flash2b

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 06:42:38 am »
If you are in NL, buy it here: http://www.eleshop.nl/rigol-ds-oscilloscope.html much easier if you need to resolve a warranty problem.
 
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Offline Roeland_R

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Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 07:44:18 am »
Yup I contacted eleshop first and they came up with the Owon, still doubt to be honest.

Specs are good for the Owon just not sure about functionality, warranty and quality.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 08:12:05 am »
I would be cautious about a newly released Owon model.  From what I've observed, you would really need to wait until others have used that particular model and give their reports on it.  They don't seem to be consistent in what they release.

The 1054Z, however, has been well and truly road tested.
 
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Offline JanJansen

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 04:25:29 pm »
The Owon looks better to me then the Rigol, i think the Owon is just new so no movies yet ?, please correct me if i,m wrong.
The Rigol is years old already.

I have to look into it, the Rigol has a big cooling fan noise, i dont know about the Owon,
once there is more info i would buy the Owon, 4 channel competition for the Rigol, exelent, i was waiting for this.

Does the Owon has serial encoding ?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 04:27:36 pm by JanJansen »
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Offline bd139

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 05:12:16 pm »
The Rigol UI is pleasant to use though. This is a killer feature.
 

Offline JanJansen

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2017, 05:25:47 pm »
It seems the Owon has only 2 probes included ?, while the Rigol has 4 for sure.
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Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 07:33:16 pm »
I'm going to go against the grain and recommend the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 for several reasons.

1) $280 is cheaper than all of the scopes you're looking at.  30 MHz, 100 MS/s is admittedly worse than them, but I'd argue is more than adequate for a beginner.  The interface will likely be more clunky without dedicated buttons/knobs, but should still be adequate once you get the feel for it.
2) It's USB, which means it's portable, which is likely very beneficial for flying drone work.
3) In addition to the scope, you get a spectrum analyzer, network analyzer, logic analyzer, function generator, pattern generator, voltmeter, and power supply.  Yes each of these functions is limited compared to the comparable dedicated device, but again, we're talking $280 in a USB-driven portable unit.  I have a scope, function generator, multiple power supplies, multiple logic analyzers, multiple multimeters, and yet I still own an AD2 for when I'm in the field and I need all of that functionality crammed into one small, portable, all-in-one unit.

http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/

I'd recommend at least downloading the interface software, you can run it in demo mode without the device to see how it handles.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 07:35:37 pm by suicidaleggroll »
 

Offline listener

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 08:56:27 pm »
I have Rigol ds1054Z as a beginner I can say its really great.

You wont go wrong with it I'm sure unless you have some specific requirements that this one does not have.

But for general beginner I think its quite good option.
 

Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 07:35:16 am »
Hi JanJansen, maybe you could contact eleshop with some questions? I'm a true beginner and might ask the wrong questions.

Then we both know more about the Owon before I'm going to play safe and get a Rigol.
 

Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 07:37:09 am »
Thanks suicidaleggroll, I'll have a look at the software.
 

Offline JanJansen

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 11:02:53 am »
Hi, its going to be my first digital scope, so i am not sure about everything.
If you buy the Owon, you can within 14 days send it back for the Rigol they say at the Eleshop site.
I would contact them before buying indeed.

I have this 400 euro laying ready, i look what new models they release more.
Suppose Rigol makes a new budget scope for 400, with faster chips, and hope they learned from the mistakes they made with bad firmwares.
Do you need it fast ?, by the way : your hobby is illegal frequencions  :-+
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 11:08:08 am by JanJansen »
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Offline A Hellene

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 02:19:05 pm »
Well, this will be my personal opinion, having it posted at the AVRFreaks community on December of 2015. Let me quote that information, since those posts of the Off-Topic section of that community are off-limits for the non-members:

I wrote, in 2015.12.20:
Quote
Quote
jgmdesign wrote:
As the new title says....which one
[...]
WHICH ONE TO GET

Jim,

Considering that, hardware-wise, DS1104Z==DS1074Z==DS1054Z (meaning that all of these models have EXACTLY the same hardware), by getting the DS1054Z model and doing a brief search in EEVBlog.com for the term "DS1054Z hack" (or for the term "Riglol") you can end up with a fully-fledged DS1104Z at the cost of a DS1054Z and of a few minutes of your spare time.

Counting beans, we have:
Code: [Select]
DS1104Z:        100 MHz DSO with 4 channels     +$830.00
AT-DS1000Z:     Advanced Triggering Option      +$191.00
MEM-DS1000Z:    Option Extends deep memory      +$197.00
REC-DS1000Z:    Real Time Waveform Record       +$146.00
SA-DS1000Z:     Serial Bus Analysis Option      +$174.00
--Total worth of:                               $1538.00

Purchasing the:
DS1054Z:        50 MHz DSO with 4 channels      -$399.00
--Gain worth of:                                $1139.00

Now, ethically-wise, RIGOL is the one who leaves the window open for anyone to have their products hacked. If the company wanted to stop that in the first place, all they would have to do was to simply change the bootloader ECC private keys of their products; but they have not changed them.

This is the same exactly marketing strategy of that company for their relatively 'ancient' DS1052E models as well as almost all of their products (see the DS2000, DS4000, DSA815, DP832, etc. lines of products), because they might not be selling as much of their 'upgraded' models but the are vastly selling their base models.

If they decided that this (unethical) marketing model suits them, there must not be such a question for their clients, at all.

-George

<EDIT>
Following Alan's advice, above, by visiting the following address you will see that, right now, there are 408 pieces of DS1054Z in stock!
http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?b=y&v=7906

Second part (2015.12.26):
Quote
UPDATE

The DS1054Z unit arrived the day before yesterday and all I can say is that this specific 'budget' piece of test equipment is far from what we can call a low-budget machine; especially after its 'enhancement' works.

Though the machine might be lacking of the GUI responsiveness and the bandwidth of its multi-thousand USD costing bigger brothers (DS2000/DS4000/DS6000) or even some of the bell-and-whistles they have like the screensaver(!), it will display decently nothing less that what the vastly more expensive units mentioned will, since it has 1.0 GSa/s product bandwidth (see its front-end ADC unit) and 24Mpoints of total memory plus high resolution (12-bit BoxCar averaging) waveform display, advanced mathematical and statistical functions, a lot of advanced triggering options, serial decoding operations (not at <10 MSa/s the 'fast' decoders of the market will but at its full product bandwidth), frame (segment) recording mode, various data importing/exporting functions and much more --see the specifications.

Before...


... and after the magic procedure:


Did I forget to mention that this is a four-channel machine (!) with all the functionality cited above for USD 399 (before someone doing their magic to release all that optional power)?

Third part (2015.12.29):
Quote
Nice try, guys!

By the way, I am afraid that, by now, the device must have been rendered even more useless... :P


What I like the most in this entry-level DSO is the intensity-graded display that emulates the trace persistence by mimicking the analog scopes Z-axis modulation. I think it was Tektronix in the late nineties the one who called that feature Digital Phosphor technology.


This is the measurement of the DDS modulated digital output (Ch 3) startup time since the PTT button (Ch 2) falling edge, while the generated 67.0 Hz sub-tone output sinewave (Ch 1) can be seen, of the ATtiny85-based CTCSS encoder/decoder I am currently working on.


-George
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:24:35 pm by A Hellene »
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline Dutch RC

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 08:40:17 pm »
Hi, its going to be my first digital scope, so i am not sure about everything.
If you buy the Owon, you can within 14 days send it back for the Rigol they say at the Eleshop site.
I would contact them before buying indeed.

I have this 400 euro laying ready, i look what new models they release more.
Suppose Rigol makes a new budget scope for 400, with faster chips, and hope they learned from the mistakes they made with bad firmwares.
Do you need it fast ?, by the way : your hobby is illegal frequencions  :-+

I've been looking for a month or two now, I don't need it tomorrow.

What do you mean by illegal frequencions?
 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2017, 09:18:40 pm »
Quote
I'm aware you can get a old analog scope on Ebay though in my country I can't find any for a low price and when I can get one it's from another country and shipping is killing the fun.

Not that I advise to buy an analog scope but if you can not find analoog scopes in the Netherlands you are not looking at the right places. You can find them easy, pricing is about 1 euro/MHz. Most analog scopes I have were free ( I have 8 analog and 2 DSO)

I have a scope and a DMM from Eleshop but also bought other things there. Nice guys.

By the way, the guy in the video used a scope with isolated channels. I have no experience with measuring what you want so I do not know if you need isolated channels but before you spend 500 euro maybe something to think about
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 09:27:31 pm by PA4TIM »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Which Digital Oscilloscope for a true beginner should I get?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2017, 09:39:39 pm »
Drones are battery-powered. Nevertheless, I shall paste the requisite EEVblog episode on how not to blow up your oscilloscope.

TEA is the way.
 


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