Author Topic: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts  (Read 63919 times)

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Offline Nominal AnimalTopic starter

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Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« on: April 11, 2024, 06:32:22 pm »
This is a technical forum where people interact with each other.  Some members speak English natively, but many do not.  I would like to take a minute of your time to explain in detail why writing style and grammar matters, and why you should spend the effort to do the best you can.

I am personally not a native English speaker at all, my own native language being Finnish, so I too have problems with specific facets of English (gendered pronouns, homophones that are not homographs, social subtext); plus my biggest fault is being overly verbose.  I write walls of text.  Sorry.

  • Communication is give and take.

    For others to show you courtesy, you need to show courtesy to them first.  This means that posts that look like they were carefully constructed, are more likely to get carefully considered responses.  If they look like they were thrown out without any interest in followups, they will be ignored.
     
  • Standard structure and grammar helps those not reading/writing/speaking English as their native language understand.

    Many of the members participating here read and write a lot of technical English, so it can be surprising that colloquialisms throw them off.  For example, in spoken English "to" and "too" sound so similar that native speakers naturally read them similar; not so for non-native readers.  Similarly, in written English "then"/"than", "which"/"witch", etc. homophones are not homographs, and mistaking them can severely confuse non-native readers, because to them, you're mixing completely unrelated words.  Thus, not caring about your writing style and grammar implies you do not care about non-native English speakers or their responses.
     
  • We discuss technical things here, so precision and clarity is highly appreciated.

    Nobody likes doing someone elses work for them, or trying to pull the necessary details needed to help with the problem from a vapid asker who does not have the time to help themselves, much less reciprocate.  Precision and clarity is the first step in reciprocating, showing that the asker spent enough effort in asking the question to make it worth answering, plus it makes it much easier for those interested in helping –– both native and non-native English speakers –– to help.
This does not mean that as readers, we should consider the lack of concise, clear style and perfect grammar an indication of anything.  Again, non-native English speakers make odd errors, and many technical people have dyslexia and other issues.  Fortunately, we don't need perfect communication to communicate efficiently and in mutually beneficial ways; we only need to do our best.

That means that it is okay to use online translators and large language models (GPT and similar) to help construct your posts.  You should ensure the translation or output matches your intent, though.  And, because of spammers exploiting them to present themselves as actual users, it is recommended you do not simply copy-paste the machine output into your post, but for example replace the least technical parts with your own words, even if poor English.  That way, you show you're spending the effort to interact with others.  If you make a typo or grammar error, you can edit your post and fix it.  If the misunderstanding is larger, acknowledge it and move on.

This forum is indexed by web search engines, and many readers come here because they found posts using terms related to some problem they are trying to solve.  Thus, it is not just your own immediate needs, but also future-you's needs, that admitting an error, and summarizing the solution you decided to go with in a post serves.  If we all do so, we don't need to re-ask questions already discussed, and can simply search for the relevant threads, read them, and learn everything we need.  Without admissions of error/misunderstanding and follow-up posts describing whether the solution worked, we all lose; so even if socially a bit awkward, in a technical discussion they are worth their gold.

Opinions are not interesting, because they cannot really be compared against each other, and they tend to change anyway as time progresses.  However, the reasoning and experience behind the opinions can be evaluated and adapted, so they are quite valuable.  Thus, instead of just posting your current opinion, it is better to describe why you have the opinion currently.  Also, while it is difficult to accept two opposing opinions at the same time, it is easy and natural to consider one acceptable in some specific situation, and the opposite in a different situation.

Because terms and abbreviations vary across the world, it is important to define the terms and abbreviations you use, to ensure your post is understood the way you intended.  For example, CIA does not always refer to an intelligence agency.  It may refer to a MOS 6526 or MOS 8520 Complex Interface Adapter IC (as used with the 6502 microprocessor), "Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability" (concept triplet in information security), CAN in automation, or a number of other things including four different international airports.  It also means that arguments like what a term exactly means (its definition) are useless, because it is just a matter of convention, and we can agree to one definition in one thread, and a different one in another thread; the important thing is that we all understand the posts the same way.

All of the above could be summarized as simply "because the important thing here is that the content of the post is understood the way the poster intended, and we are not telepaths".  Our interactions with each other are limited by the way we communicate.  By striving for minimal error rate, we strive for most mutually beneficial interactions, and maximal long-term gain for everyone.  We can tolerate error from those whose results are limited, but an increasing number of those who could but do not feel they need to spend the effort, can easily bring down the quality to where it is no longer mutually beneficial to interact.  Consider littering: it is much more difficult to be the first who litters at a clean place, than add to existing litter.  Small gestures matter.

Finally, because this is a forum with written text only, it is important to remember that others do not react to your person, they only react to your output.  And, we can affect our output without any change in our person.  Thus, by controlling your output, you can control how others react to you.  While this comes back to point 1. above, it also means that you should not take things personally: nobody knows you, they can only read what you have written.  So, if others' reaction to your output feels wrong or annoys you, consider whether there is some small change in your output that could change that.  It is easy but unrealistic to demand everyone else change; but even a small change in ones output can drastically change how others react to your posts.

Once again, I apologize for the wall of text.  The more important and/or many-sided I think the issue is, the more verbose I get.  It is a fault of mine I'm working on.  (My secret hope is that this will spur on a discussion as to what are the important key points, and that eventually someone summarizes them in a two-paragraph sticky post, useful for everyone.  But don't tell anyone yet; we'll have to just see if that happens.)

Online tggzzz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2024, 06:57:09 pm »
Those three numbered points should definitely be read and understood and actioned by a small number of the posters on this forum. (No names, no witch hunt)

I try to follow Postel's Robustness Principle/Law: "be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

If I am asking other people to help me, it would be extremely rude (and self-defeating!) if I couldn't be bothered to help them to help me.  That's the first half of Postel's Law.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 07:35:02 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online IanB

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2024, 07:08:39 pm »
Supposing someone struggles to compose well structured and grammatically correct sentences (in any language), does that mean they might also struggle to compose well structured and electrically correct circuits, or might struggle to see where existing circuits might have problems? (Or for that matter, have similar difficulties with code and software?)

In all cases, logic, order and perception matter.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 08:28:34 pm by IanB »
 
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2024, 08:11:17 pm »
Supposing someone struggles to compose well structured and grammatically correct sentences (in any language), does that mean they might also struggle to compose will well structured and electrically correct circuits, or might struggle to see where existing circuits might have problems? (Or for that matter, have similar difficulties with code and software?)

In all cases, logic, order and perception matter.
i dont think so. logic in circuit or math or SW code is quite different from logic in language... logic in circuit or math (most technical, science or engineering fields) we only have very few, or maybe only one way to get it correct (objective and... provable too) but language is quite subjective imho (too many cultures, languages and words ordering and innovations and intentions). i always treat or think language as a very common mean since stone age in "communication" and there are many ways of conveying it.. but utmost important is the message is decoded by the receiver correctly even if the sender has to find an uncomfortable way of encoding the message in the first place... the trick is to minimize "noises" as much as possible. in context of recent events, noises can be:

1) short forms or broken grammars incomprehensible to the receivers.
2) simply non english, i saw one thread with even incomprehensible characters (german? russia?)

there are more that can be said philosophically and it will be endless imho. i wont type too long into communication theory, you people can and should think for yourself, reading intro in communication theory may helps if you can think holistically too. ymmv.


Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2024, 08:39:55 pm »
Supposing someone struggles to compose well structured and grammatically correct sentences (in any language), does that mean they might also struggle to compose well structured and electrically correct circuits, or might struggle to see where existing circuits might have problems? (Or for that matter, have similar difficulties with code and software?)

Possibly, maybe probably, but not necessarily. It will depend on the underlying cause.

If dementia, stroke, illness, etc, then that is the way to bet. But there can be some forms of, ahem, neurodivergence which manifest themselves as capability in one domain but not another.

And, of course, we've all seen people that function well in most respects, but who should be kept well away from keyboards and soldering irons.

Summary: it is suggestive, but other evidence is needed.The

I will not comment on whether I feel there is such evidence.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2024, 08:48:42 pm »
How about we treat people like humans and everyone just do their best to have good conversations?
 

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2024, 08:57:18 pm »
How about we treat people like humans and everyone just do their best to have good conversations?

Yes.

It, of course, requires all involved to think of the other participants, and to help them not hinder them.

It becomes difficult when participants repeatedly hinder rather than help.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2024, 03:15:00 am »
How about we treat people like humans and everyone just do their best to have good conversations?

Yes.

It, of course, requires all involved to think of the other participants, and to help them not hinder them.

It becomes difficult when participants repeatedly hinder rather than help.

FWIW, there is almost always too much EGO in conversations online. Sometimes from the asker, often from the replier.

Even when there's not, it's difficult to convey tone of conversation, especially when English isn't the native language. And even when it is and I grew up in New York, and others grew up in London, or Toronto, or Sydney or Sweden, etc...

But it's always up to the guy replying to take things in a good way...or a bad way....and escalate or not. Why ever escalate and be negative over something as silly as grammar, or a beginner question...in the BEGINNERS forum, right? :)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 03:19:30 am by John Coloccia »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2024, 03:37:14 am »
Thanks. Set to Sticky.
 
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Online Smokey

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2024, 03:44:59 am »
Agreed.  Communication is super important....
Lets start with all agreeing on how to pronounce "Bode"...  :)

...
Once again, I apologize for the wall of text.  The more important and/or many-sided I think the issue is, the more verbose I get.  It is a fault of mine I'm working on....
chatGPT is really good at summarizing text.  If you are serious, you can ask chatgpt to distill some long text while retaining the important information. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 03:47:39 am by Smokey »
 

Online IanB

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2024, 03:49:03 am »
Lets start with all agreeing on how to pronounce "Bode"...  :)

We could always write it down, and thus avoid pronouncing it  :)

But in case it helps, it is a Dutch name, so: https://en.bab.la/pronunciation/dutch/bode
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2024, 03:50:56 am »
How about we treat people like humans and everyone just do their best to have good conversations?

Yes.

It, of course, requires all involved to think of the other participants, and to help them not hinder them.

It becomes difficult when participants repeatedly hinder rather than help.

FWIW, there is almost always too much EGO in conversations online. Sometimes from the asker, often from the replier.

Even when there's not, it's difficult to convey tone of conversation, especially when English isn't the native language. And even when it is and I grew up in New York, and others grew up in London, or Toronto, or Sydney or Sweden, etc...

But it's always up to the guy replying to take things in a good way...or a bad way....and escalate or not. Why ever escalate and be negative over something as silly as grammar, or a beginner question...in the BEGINNERS forum, right? :)

Other electronics forums will lock a thread if the OP is deemed to unable to work on the project, if it's beyond their ability to stay safe.
Just had an example of a beginner thread, essential details missing, and a safety hazard exists.
Be nice about it? I say no, after several hundred posts you should know better to include a pic, make/model number, some bits of a schematic, a voltage measurement.
Instead of pissing off people trying to answer a vague, volatile thread.

We would deny them the lesson to communicate better, by being all so accommodating and nicey nice.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2024, 03:51:34 am »
i dont think so. logic in circuit or math or SW code is quite different from logic in language... logic in circuit or math (most technical, science or engineering fields) we only have very few, or maybe only one way to get it correct (objective and... provable too) but language is quite subjective imho (too many cultures, languages and words ordering and innovations and intentions).

Language barriers are one thing, but assuming the issues are not being lost in translation I have found that people that struggle to express an idea often don't have a very firm grasp on it in the first place.  The true issues really aren't grammatical, they're the missing crucial bits of information that the poster doesn't provide and sometimes even becomes annoyed about when someone asks for them.  I sometimes get in that hair-on-fire knob-twiddling too-much-junk-on-the-bench mode and make mistakes, overlook obvious things and forget to write down measurements.  But before I post for help or discussion I do my best to organize my thoughts and results.  Sometimes just doing that solves the issue and no post is needed. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 04:02:50 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2024, 03:55:50 am »
Lets start with all agreeing on how to pronounce "Bode"...  :)

That's easy.  It rhymes with "Rohde".  :)
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Nominal AnimalTopic starter

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2024, 11:46:56 am »
I believe restructuring ones thoughts by putting it in clear understandable written language is a very important tool we can and need to use.

In software development, this is called rubber duck debugging.

In similar vein, putting the effort into structure and grammar (and explaining any abbreviations and rarer technical terms) is not just treating others as you'd like to be treated; it also shows the asker has spent the effort to solve the problem themselves, by ensuring their own understanding is deep enough to explain the problem in as clear writing style and good grammar as they can muster.

Thus, it does not matter if the asker has dyslexia or similar limitations.  The effort in itself is key, because it affects everyone, including the asker themselves.

If we also consider the added benefits of others reading the topic later, and building new understanding and knowledge on top, and sharing that in their own questions and answers, we all win, a lot, in the long term.  I love seeing those I've helped exceed my own capabilities, because it means I've helped create a world with better and more interesting people, things, and opportunities than I myself could create.  My practical experience alone tells me the effort needed is easily, definitely, worth the results.
 
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Offline HobGoblyn

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2024, 09:05:22 pm »

I am personally not a native English speaker at all, my own native language being Finnish, so I too have problems with specific facets of English (gendered pronouns, homophones that are not homographs, social subtext); plus my biggest fault is being overly verbose.  I write walls of text.  Sorry.


I am a native English speaker and I still struggle to make short posts.

Mind you, in my defence, at infant school in the late 60s my school decided to experiment on my year (both my older sisters escaped this) by trying to teach me using something called ITA.  Whenever I come across someone who was also taught this way, they too spent their entire life trying to readjust and their spelling is awful.

When MS word started underlining misspelled words, it was the greatest day of my life.

Attached is a pic of how I was taught to read and write, then I would go hone, my mum would get a normal kids book out and was worried sick that I had some sort of problem as I couldn’t read it, I didn’t, I was just taught a really crap way.

Here’s an example of the bad way I was taught.


 

Offline HobGoblyn

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2024, 09:55:25 pm »

Supposing someone struggles to compose well structured and grammatically correct sentences (in any language), does that mean they might also struggle to compose will well structured and electrically correct circuits, or might struggle to see where existing circuits might have problems? (Or for that matter, have similar difficulties with code and software?)


Maybe for some, but not for all, see my previous example about how I was taught.

I’m fairly good at maths but am useless with written English, over the years I have learnt the difference between things like ‘there’,  ‘their’ and ‘they’re’, but while there’s certain long words that I use a lot hence have learnt how to spell them, my general spelling is awful.


My posts might look OK to many, but often I will spend 30 mins doing a simple reply (lots of editing and making sure it’s easy for others to read before posting, whereas most people probably spend only two or three mins doing the same sort of reply.

Sure there are some unfortunate people who struggle with everything, but being bad at English (or any other subject really) doesn’t mean someone’s going to be useless at other things.

One thing that really frustrated me at secondary school (high school) was getting moaned at in almost every other subject because my written English was so bad. I knew how bad my English was, I was only one up from the special needs group for my English lessons, it ended up being really disheartening and demotivating.  Didn’t matter whether say in geography or history I had answered every question correctly with all the necessary info written down, I was going to get moaned at for my spelling etc anyway, so it got to the point where I thought "why bother trying, I’m getting the same crap whether I try or not”.   

That is why when a post is perfectly readable, one quick read through it’s totally obvious what the poster is asking, then instead of helping, people complain about the grammar/spelling etc, I worry they may be putting a poster off ever posting again,

I don’t mind if someone struggles to write and it has grammatical errors as long as it’s easy the get the gist of what they are saying ( even in this sentence, I typed ‘jist’ it got underlined in red, I googled it and realised it should be ‘gist’)

What I really don’t like is something like a mile long single paragraph. I appreciate some people don’t know when and where to properly use punctuation, but surely someone writing one huge paragraph, they must realise it’s completely unreadable?

One other thing I find unreadable is someone typing in all caps.

Not talking about writing with a pen, many people with certain reading disabilities find writing caps is much easier for them to do (all letters the same height etc).

I’ve read that some people prefer to type in all caps as their eyesight isn’t great, and it’s much easier for them to proof read what they’ve typed if it’s all caps.

To my way of thinking, if you can’t read your own post back unless it’s all in caps, how are you reading everybody else’s posts? Surely if you’re using whatever to read the other posts,  then you can use the same software etc to read your own post? 

There probably more to typing caps than I’m aware of and I’m sorry if I come across as  being unfair and/or judgmental towards  people who need to do this, but I do find those posts the hardest to read and usually skip them.


« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 09:57:00 pm by HobGoblyn »
 

Offline golden_labels

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2024, 12:29:05 am »
Regarding dyslexic people, non-native speakers, and similar cases: readers can tell, if you make genuine mistakes beyond your reasonable control or if you simply don’t give a fuck.

From my perspective, coincidently a dyslectic person, decent style is critical for efficient reading. Humans don’t consume text by reading it letter by letter. Even in alphabetic scripts the brain processes entire symbols. With increased reading skills this moves towards entire clusters of words, along with their context. If a post is written poorly, it’s like having to walk with somebody tripping you every other step. On a trail with guides painted in deceiving colors.

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Offline shabaz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2024, 01:10:31 am »
I find Grammarly very helpful, at least on a desktop. It is free (there is a paid version, but that is only about 15% better than the free option) and installable in desktop web browsers.

I don't agree with every change suggested by Grammarly, so sometimes, I'll override it. It doesn't get everything right (and sometimes, its suggestions feel harder to understand for readers, and I'll ignore them in that case). It is a handy tool for a quick check; if there is too much underscored in red or blue, then at least that's a sign for me to reconsider my output, even if I don't accept all the specific changes that the tool suggests.

The attached screenshot shows the view I see as I type in a Grammarly-enabled browser.

There's also a similar free app called Microsoft Editor that can be installed in browsers, but personally, I think Grammarly does a better job more often.
 

Online IanB

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2024, 01:47:26 am »
Mind you, in my defence, at infant school in the late 60s my school decided to experiment on my year (both my older sisters escaped this) by trying to teach me using something called ITA.  Whenever I come across someone who was also taught this way, they too spent their entire life trying to readjust and their spelling is awful.

Yes, I am of an age where I encountered this. However, I inevitably viewed it as "baby English", and since I did not want to be considered a baby I did my best to ignore it and concentrated on reading books written in real English instead. Fortunately, the bookshelves were stacked with books written in real English, so it was not hard to learn the right way. There were inevitably many written words I didn't know how to pronounce when first encountered, or pronounced wrongly, but as soon as I heard people say them I learned to say them correctly. I remember for quite a while I used to pronounce rendezvous as "rend-ezze-vuss" in my head, and it was a revelation to learn the correct pronunciation.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2024, 04:40:37 am »
experiment on my year (both my older sisters escaped this) by trying to teach me using something called ITA
Here’s an example of the bad way I was taught.
its called phonetics.. this system is embedded in our native language to english dictionary (correct english spelling and bracketed next to it is its phonetics spelling) and has helped me tremendously as non native english speaker on how to pronounce english word correctly even until now especially on words that i've not encountered. since english spelling is FUBAR (no insult intended) its near to impossible trying to readjust the whole nation's dictionary into phonetics system spelling, unlike our language. remember did i say language is just a relative and subjective matter, including spelling? i dont mind if the whole english dictionary need to be rearranged into phonetics system, in fact i will be more than happy. but i dont think majority of native english/westerners writers are going to like it... ymmv..



ps: imho its possible to spell english in phonetics way just using normal alphabets, our language has developed such thing, each letter and vowel has its own specific pronounciation... such as cat we can respell as ket in our phonetics system, like = laik.. you = yu, me = mi, love = lav etc etc although normal alphabet cant possible cover all human phonetics, such as e can be pronuonced two ways... the most troublesome for me to pronounce is englishmen's "deep R" you people dont pronounce R like we do... its difficult for us to pronouce deep R and i bet you people also have problem pronouncing R like we do... its tongue matter, ymmv
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2024, 08:57:02 am »
Mind you, in my defence, at infant school in the late 60s my school decided to experiment on my year (both my older sisters escaped this) by trying to teach me using something called ITA.

One of my earliest memories is asking my father to teach me to read. He did. We got a few pages into the second "Janet and John" book, and decided to move onto interesting stuff. Consequently I could read well before starting school at 5. School was boring.

A couple of years later I saw the ITA, thought it was a bloody stupid idea for two reasons. Obviously you have to learn to read twice. Plus you can't continue to learn by reading all the interesting things you find around you.

Summary: I have a lot of sympathy.

EDIT: attribution corrected.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 03:58:33 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2024, 09:21:29 am »
My posts might look OK to many, but often I will spend 30 mins doing a simple reply (lots of editing and making sure it’s easy for others to read before posting, whereas most people probably spend only two or three mins doing the same sort of reply.

You missed the closing bracket :) I noticed that the third time I read it, so it clearly wasn't that important!

More importantly, thinking of the reader first is very important in several ways. It is clear you do that, and your posts are a pleasure to read.

The lack of such consideration and editing is why I rarely bother to watch "yooooobooob vids".

Quote
That is why when a post is perfectly readable, one quick read through it’s totally obvious what the poster is asking, then instead of helping, people complain about the grammar/spelling etc, I worry they may be putting a poster off ever posting again,
...
What I really don’t like is something like a mile long single paragraph. I appreciate some people don’t know when and where to properly use punctuation, but surely someone writing one huge paragraph, they must realise it’s completely unreadable?

One other thing I find unreadable is someone typing in all caps.
...
There probably more to typing caps than I’m aware of and I’m sorry if I come across as  being unfair and/or judgmental towards  people who need to do this, but I do find those posts the hardest to read and usually skip them.

All very sane.

The OP was prompted to make his post by member p.larner a.k.a. m3vuv The OP, correctly, did not refer to him directly, but it was obvious what prompted his post.

p.larner was a serial offender in several respects (i.e. not just spelling and grammar), both here and on other forums. He was one of the very few on my "ignore" list. He has now been banned because he couldn't behave himself.

Here's a couple of examples of his many many many first posts (which often didn't have second posts!) ...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/will-this-work-423071/msg5434079/#msg5434079
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/723-psu-mod/msg5402465/#msg5402465
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/getting-a-cheap-aliepress-radio-to-work/msg5394983/#msg5394983
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/issue-when-printing-a-pdf/msg5386421/#msg5386421

Entertainingly, when multiple people responded to him in the same style, he became annoyed...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/off-topic/msg5444132/#msg5444132

Overall, people recognise that we all make mistakes - and they are very tolerant of people who do that and try to improve.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
The following users thanked this post: HobGoblyn

Online tggzzz

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2024, 09:30:58 am »
its called phonetics.. this system is embedded in our native language to english dictionary (correct english spelling and bracketed next to it is its phonetics spelling) and has helped me tremendously as non native english speaker on how to pronounce english word correctly even until now especially on words that i've not encountered. since english spelling is FUBAR (no insult intended) its near to impossible trying to readjust the whole nation's dictionary into phonetics system spelling, unlike our language. remember did i say language is just a relative and subjective matter, including spelling? i dont mind if the whole english dictionary need to be rearranged into phonetics system, in fact i will be more than happy. but i dont think majority of native english/westerners writers are going to like it... ymmv..

ps: imho its possible to spell english in phonetics way just using normal alphabets, our language has developed such thing, each letter and vowel has its own specific pronounciation... such as cat we can respell as ket in our phonetics system, like = laik.. you = yu, me = mi, love = lav etc etc although normal alphabet cant possible cover all human phonetics, such as e can be pronuonced two ways... the most troublesome for me to pronounce is englishmen's "deep R" you people dont pronounce R like we do... its difficult for us to pronouce deep R and i bet you people also have problem pronouncing R like we do... its tongue matter, ymmv

I would guess that the phonetic translation of English is dependent on the other language.

As for English being easy, have fun with...

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,
   I will teach you in my verse
   Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse.

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy;
   Tear in eye, your dress you'll tear;
   Queer, fair seer, hear my prayer.

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!
   Just compare heart, hear and heard,
   Dies and diet, lord and word.

Sword and sward, retain and Britain
(Mind the latter how it's written).
   Made has not the sound of bade,
   Say-said, pay-paid, laid but plaid.
...

Full version at http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html or https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/perverse-language/msg607129/#msg607129
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online IanB

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Re: Why writing style and grammar matters in posts
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2024, 03:15:48 pm »
Made has not the sound of bade

Oh.
 


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