Windshield Wiper Delay Circuit

[ArTrvlr]

ArTrvlr I was reverse-engineering the GM wiper board but ran out of time. It's hard because of so many models and no decent vehicle wiring diagrams. Maybe later today or tomorrow I can post a schematic.
The Newport wiper motor must have a park switch in it.
GM Wiper boards with 6-pin connectors appear to drive the washer pump, with the one button touch.

Nothing should connect directly to Battery, your schematic shows "B" going there which will give a parasite power drain. It should go to IGN I think. I thought only retractable wipers had the ability to use battery power to park and retract.

I posted a GM service manual schematic earlier but here it is again so you don't have to look for it: 8-485 Schematic-Wiper Washer Switch.pdf (495.66 kB - downloaded 73 times.)

Yes the Newport wiper motor has a park switch inside.

This board only has a 5 pin connector. The washer pump is separate. You will see all that on the diagram.

You are correct on the B terminal. It should go to the ACC side of the IGN switch same as the red wire feeding the relays. My bad.
I fixed it.

[brucehoult]

Not great, but better than the Ford (un)Eco(not)Sport I got last time I was over there, which managed a disappointing 24. Thankfully I also rented a Honda Civic which was faster, heavier, larger, and still returned over 40.

Malibu is more Accord/Camry class.

[floobydust]

I dug in a bit and haven't found a simple solution - to using a late model 2001 GM steering column plus wiper motor control module, with the aftermarket New Port wiper motor; if I understand correctly what OP is trying to do.
New Port should offer this as a product, right now all they offer is the Intermittent Delay Wiper Switch

I find the GM wiper controller board has decades of legacy, and has several timers in it.
Anytime the wipers are home (park switch open), the timers are reset so they can start over for the next sweep.
There is the intermittent/mist pulse wiper delay, and a few other small delays so you can turn the wand switches without malfunctions or strange things going on.
The washer button makes it run low speed for maybe 5-6 seconds.
It has some safety redundancy, there are three wand switches and two can activate the low speed, I think it's so you can have wipers even if one switch fails.

If you are running this with the Park switch contacts sticking up in the air, the module will think it's always at Park/Home and not work. If you short the contacts with a jumper, the module will then always think the arms are in the middle of a sweep and shouldn't work intermittent.

The GM wiper board relies on the Park switch to reset its timers and here we don't have it, park switch is inside the new wiper motor with one end connected to low speed.
I'll think about it some more and there should be a way to make this work.

1958 Buick Electric Wiper Conversion his schematic has some errors but wow this is a lot of work keeping the original steering column.

[floobydust]

My idea is to simply use the GM wiper control circuit board as much as possible, connect it to the new wiper motor and add one relay to spoof the park switch, by connecting to the two contacts sticking up in the air. Even though the gear and ring etc. from truck wiper motor would be missing if the board was taken out. Just the board used stand-alone. If this works, it's much simpler, fewer relays.
The GM module's one relay does a combined low speed+park function at T2 so I think it can work.

If it doesn't, then you would need some custom electronics to take the New Port park switch and make it generate the GM park switch signal.
Or, take apart the New Port wiper motor and break out the park switch wire that connects the low speed terminal inside.
So then it would be a 4-wire wiper motor now, instead of 3 (plus ground), and just connect the New Port park switch to the GM module park switch pins, no additional relay required.

Take a look at the proposed wiring diagram and let me know what you think.

[ArTrvlr]

Quote from: floobydust on March 17, 2022, 07:03:28 pm

If you are running this with the Park switch contacts sticking up in the air, the module will think it's always at Park/Home and not work. If you short the contacts with a jumper, the module will then always think the arms are in the middle of a sweep and shouldn't work intermittent.

The GM wiper board relies on the Park switch to reset its timers and here we don't have it, park switch is inside the new wiper motor with one end connected to low speed.
I'll think about it some more and there should be a way to make this work.

Your comments about shorting the park contacts got me thinking and checking. I clipped a momentary push button across the park contacts.

The following tests were with the GM board out of the motor and everything connected as in the diagram below. When I put power to that test setup the PARK light comes on and stays on until I make a selection with the GM wiper switch. This is correct since in the actual wiper motor the park switch would open when the wipers moved to the PARK position. When I make a selection with the wiper switch the LO or HI light comes on and the PARK light goes out. As soon as the LO or HI light goes off the PARK light comes back on.

The only thing that works right is HI. All other switch positions call for LO speed and they all cause the LO light to stay on anywhere from continuously to 6-12 seconds.


In MIST and all 5 DELAY positions if I tap the push button as soon as the LO light comes on everything works normally.
Wash will go off on time if I continually tap the button for appx. 6 seconds.
LO will go off when I tap the button after turning the switch off.

My guess is the momentary short tricks the board into going into PARK mode, then when the short is removed it thinks the park switch has rotated and opened.

So I need a momentary short triggered by 12 volts on T2. That can be done with a relay, a capacitor and a resistor like this. I adapted that circuit in the second diagram below. But I think that will only give one momentary short, which would work for MIST and DELAY, but not for WASH or LO. And, if it could be made to give a continuous short/open/short/open cycle it would have to cycle full time when in LO. I doubt that relay would last long. Is there a way to do that without a relay? Would a flasher for LED turn signals work? I think I have only found a partial solution.

[ArTrvlr]

My idea is to simply use the GM wiper control circuit board as much as possible, connect it to the new wiper motor and add one relay to spoof the park switch, by connecting to the two contacts sticking up in the air. Even though the gear and ring etc. from truck wiper motor would be missing if the board was taken out. Just the board used stand-alone. If this works, it's much simpler, fewer relays.
The GM module's one relay does a combined low speed+park function at T2 so I think it can work.

If it doesn't, then you would need some custom electronics to take the New Port park switch and make it generate the GM park switch signal.
Or, take apart the New Port wiper motor and break out the park switch wire that connects the low speed terminal inside.
So then it would be a 4-wire wiper motor now, instead of 3 (plus ground), and just connect the New Port park switch to the GM module park switch pins, no additional relay required.

Take a look at the proposed wiring diagram and let me know what you think.

I like your thinking, fewer relays is better, and my last suggestion added another one!

When I started this topic I had pretty much given up on coaxing the GM wiper board into controlling the Newport motor. I was looking for help in adapting the delay circuit the guy was working on for the 1958 Buick. But, like you said, his circuit has flaws. He even mentioned that there could be a delay between turn on and the first delay wipe. Since coming here I have learned that a 555 timer would be a better approach. But with your help and a little more digging on my part I am leaning back to using the GM board. But since I was looking for help with building a new board, I didn't mention some things I had learned about the GM board/motor:

When the switch is off one of the park contacts has 12 volts. The other is connected to T2. Seems normal for a park switch.

When the switch is in any position calling for LO speed the 12 volt contact falls to 1-2 volts.

When the motor is running in LO the HI speed windings output 7 volts (T1) That's the reason for diode D3 in my test schematic. With the board removed from the motor this wouldn't be necessary.

When the motor is running in HI the LO speed windings output 18 volts (T2) That's the reason for relay RL3 in my test schematic. Again, with the board removed from the motor, not necessary.

Plus the new information from my last post about shorting the PARK terminals with a momentary switch.

When I have the circuit board assembled to the GM motor and wired as shown in my test schematic, with the light bulbs representing the Newport motor, everything works as expected.

Does any of this information affect your suggested diagram? Whether it does or not I don't think I can test your setup with just the bulbs. It seems like I would need the Newport motor to be sure it would park, but maybe not. I haven't bought the motor yet because I am quite a ways from being ready to reassemble my car. If I buy it now it could be out of warranty by the time it is installed. I am only working on the wipers now because I am waiting on a new frame. I need that here before I can finish body repairs and some modifications, so I am working on what I can in the meantime. But if I need to go ahead and get the motor for final testing I can do so.

I really do appreciate the time and effort you have put forth to help me in this project. Thanks so much!

[floobydust]

The GM module has 3 main timers - mist, intermittent and wash, plus a couple timers to filter out switching, as you turn the control here or there- to ignore that until the wand switch is staying put.  So it looks like a 555 timer could replace the GM module but really you need more than that.
The New Port wiper motor seems expensive at $250 but they have done the work on the mechanical aspects. That guy's '58 Buick had '57 sized mech and he assumed they just used those parts up in early production. New Port seem to offer the (Cole Hersee)  Littelfuse Electronic Windshield Wiper Switches like 75600-04, and 75226 75212-04 2-speed switch. Too bad they don't offer anything that would work with modern steering columns.

For high speed, with the GM module it looks like both the high speed and low speed motor windings get energized, at the same time. This is different than your present test circuit. If you look at the GM steering column switches in High they activate Low as well. This can be proven by the (GM module's) Low speed relay heard clicking in (it will also click when doing park) when selecting High speed. This would be a deal breaker to using the GM module with New Port's product I think but I will ask them if it's a series field/shunt motor they have. Also note when the motor is only powered at high speed, its Low terminal will generate phantom voltage which can be confusing.
If you connect a motor to the GM module's T1,2,3 terminals in your test circuit, note that diode D3 will probably roast because it is now seeing motor current, typically up to 6A in the car.

The GM modules are made in china, Korea, everyone and their dog makes them. I'll ask New Port what the deal is with their motor and park switch to confirm what they say.

[ArTrvlr]

The GM module has 3 main timers - mist, intermittent and wash, plus a couple timers to filter out switching, as you turn the control here or there- to ignore that until the wand switch is staying put.  So it looks like a 555 timer could replace the GM module but really you need more than that.
The New Port wiper motor seems expensive at $250 but they have done the work on the mechanical aspects. That guy's '58 Buick had '57 sized mech and he assumed they just used those parts up in early production. New Port seem to offer the (Cole Hersee)  Littelfuse Electronic Windshield Wiper Switches like 75600-04, and 75226 2-speed switch. Too bad they don't offer anything that would work with modern steering columns.

For high speed, with the GM module it looks like both the high speed and low speed motor windings get energized, at the same time. This is different than your present test circuit. If you look at the GM steering column switches in High they activate Low as well. This can be proven by the (GM module's) Low speed relay heard clicking in (it will also click when doing park) when selecting High speed. This would be a deal breaker to using the GM module with New Port's product I think but I will ask them if it's a series field/shunt motor they have. Also note when the motor is only powered at high speed, its Low terminal will generate phantom voltage which can be confusing.
If you connect a motor to the GM module's T1,2,3 terminals in your test circuit, note that diode D3 will probably roast because it is now seeing motor current, typically up to 6A in the car.

The GM modules are made in china, Korea, everyone and their dog makes them. I'll ask New Port what the deal is with their motor and park switch to confirm what they say.

Again thanks for all your research and help.

I haven't talked to Newport Engineering but based on what I think is true for three wire two speed wiper motors, and the drawing below, each motor terminal must be powered separately, never two or three at the same time. This quote from the Buick guy seems to back that up:

"Unfortunately, once I got the conversion kit in and bench tested the new wiper motor, I found a small problem - the auto-park circuit on the new motor is designed to be energized only when the wipers are "off". If you energize it at the same time as the low or high speed leads the motor current draw increases radically and the different windings in the motor basically fight with each other."

That, and the fact that as you say, the GM switch/module combination also activates LO speed when in the HI position, is why my test setup used relays and diodes to isolate all three outputs. It's the only way I know to do it.


Regarding my roasting D3 diode, what part # or power rating diode would survive?
 Two Speed Wiper Switch 75212-04.pdf (788.75 kB - downloaded 56 times.)

[SL4P]

This thread would be incomplete without someone suggesting a Raspberry Pi, orvArduino with a relay or three.

Everyone needs linux running their wipers.

[floobydust]

GM did it with four transistors

My buddy's windshield wipers kept getting stuck on his Chevy C10. He'd roll down his window, stick his arm out to grab the wipers and yank them to get them running again.
Problem is, he was not looking at the road while tugging at the wiper arm. One day, he didn't see the car stopped ahead making a turn and he rear-ended him.

About the motor high+low and park switch, I reached out to New Port and will let you know when I hear from them.

[ArTrvlr]

Quote from: floobydust on March 19, 2022, 07:50:16 pm

My idea is to simply use the GM wiper control circuit board as much as possible, connect it to the new wiper motor and add one relay to spoof the park switch, by connecting to the two contacts sticking up in the air. Even though the gear and ring etc. from truck wiper motor would be missing if the board was taken out. Just the board used stand-alone. If this works, it's much simpler, fewer relays.
The GM module's one relay does a combined low speed+park function at T2 so I think it can work.

Based on your idea above, and after testing with the GM wiper motor circuit board park contacts shorted with a momentary push button I came up with the test setup shown below. I haven't tried it yet, I had to order the capacitor and resistor.

Do I need a diode at terminal 86 of RL2 to prevent the capacitor from discharging back through the LO bulb  or back into the circuit board at T2?

[floobydust]

I didn't yet hear back from New Port, resent tech support questions to see what options they have with their wiper motor park switches.
Let me chew on this, I don't have a wiper system to play around with on my workbench lol. The delay cap you added can fool the unit but for perfect operation, the park relay needs to really follow the park switch.