Author Topic: Wirewrap parts  (Read 1062 times)

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Offline coldfiremc

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Wirewrap parts
« on: October 21, 2019, 04:08:37 am »
Hi. I got from trash, lots of those vector wirewrap boards. however, I don't have the important part: the wirewrap pins and posts. I really want to try some little homebrew projects with computers (have tons of Z80 and SRAMS) and this could be a more reliable way to realize them.
So i don't have any idea about names of parts and part numbers and where to buy. I was going to buy one of those wirewrapper tools (WSU-30) and AWG 30 wire, but I don't know what more I would need.
Here, the only store selling this kind of stuff is Allied Electronics. I don't get mad if you suggest me to buy NOS or surplus parts in Ebay, especially is for little cheaper parts.

Thanks for your help
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:11:47 am by coldfiremc »
 

Online worsthorse

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2019, 04:38:06 am »
If you are going to build IC-based stuff, just look for wirewrap sockets on ebay. You may be shocked at the prices. As far as tools go, if you are going to wirewrap more than a few sockets, find a used electric wirewrap gun. Be careful not to buy a pneumatic or battery-powered version. The first is impossible to use and the second is unlikely to have a good battery.

You'll also need an unwrap tool and strippers. If you watch ebay you will find pre-stripped 30AWG wire, in pre-cut sizes. It is really handy for prototyping and will save you a world of pain if you are doing a lot of wirewrapping.

Unless your project is very small, you are going to need a schematic software package that does wire lists. I haven't done wirewrap for a long time, so I don't know if any of the current packages still do that.

Last thing: start with a very small project. It takes a while to get the hang of using the tools.  Good luck.
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Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2019, 07:12:04 am »
A quick bit of searching found this source of wire wrap sockets and tools. The machined-contact IC socket prices, adjusted for inflation, are roughly what I remember: for sockets with simpler contacts but more gold.
 
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Offline coldfiremc

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2019, 05:33:17 pm »
This is a really good supplier. However I only see sockets (that trash has sockets too, very fine trash), I dont know if posts are needed too for discrete passive components. I saw forked sockets like this

Are sockets like this adequate to hold 2pin passive components?
 

Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2019, 07:31:48 pm »
Yes, that is what I used to use them for.
 

Online KL27x

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2019, 09:58:25 pm »
The unwrap tool I have doesn't work unless you "zoom in" and can see the end of the wire as you use it. Otherwise it will just catch 2 wraps of wire and jam.

You can unwrap wires using a manual wrap tool. Gentle downward pressure with a CCW twist, about 1 turn. This will loosen the wrap enough to slide it off with tweezers/fingernails.

If you have a lot of unwrapping to do, needle nose pliers with serrated teeth. Grip the wrap inline with the pliers and pull straight up. It might take 2 tries but when the top loops catch and pull away, now you have a length of free wire to grip and pull on. The wrap will unravel like a sweater.
 

Online worsthorse

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2019, 11:49:58 pm »
Those sockets are fine for holding passives. If you found all that in thrash, well... very well done!   ;D
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Online worsthorse

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2019, 11:51:27 pm »
The unwrap tool I have doesn't work unless you "zoom in" and can see the end of the wire as you use it. Otherwise it will just catch 2 wraps of wire and jam.

You can unwrap wires using a manual wrap tool. Gentle downward pressure with a CCW twist, about 1 turn. This will loosen the wrap enough to slide it off with tweezers/fingernails.

If you have a lot of unwrapping to do, needle nose pliers with serrated teeth. Grip the wrap inline with the pliers and pull straight up. It might take 2 tries but when the top loops catch and pull away, now you have a length of free wire to grip and pull on. The wrap will unravel like a sweater.

Unless you are very experienced with a wire wrap gun, you should always use a manual unwrap tool. and honestly, unless you are unwrapping a zillion posts, a manual tool is the better choice.

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Offline edavid

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 12:27:57 am »
Unless you are very experienced with a wire wrap gun, you should always use a manual unwrap tool. and honestly, unless you are unwrapping a zillion posts, a manual tool is the better choice.

It sounds like OP salvaged pre-wrapped boards, so he will be unwrapping a zillion posts, and by the time he's done, he will be very experienced  :)


OP, if you don't want to use DIP headers, here are the most common pins/clips:

https://www.vectorelect.com/terminals-wire-wrap.html
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:03:38 pm by edavid »
 

Online KL27x

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 05:02:30 am »
Quote
Unless you are very experienced with a wire wrap gun, you should always use a manual unwrap tool. and honestly, unless you are unwrapping a zillion posts, a manual tool is the better choice.
My unwrapping tool IS manual. Maybe I have a bad one. I find it's way easier to use those other two methods.

When I breadboard, I wire wrap almost exclusively, to pin headers pushed into the board. When I'm done, I unwrap and throw away all the wires and keep the headers. So I've done a fair bit of unwrapping. Albeit in this case, I think I cut the wires and unravel them from the bottom end. Been awhile, TBH.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 05:07:37 am by KL27x »
 

Offline coldfiremc

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 06:19:00 pm »
guys, this vectorbords are brand new, in their bags.

also noted that vector sells this insertion tool for posts. is really needed?

https://www.vectorelect.com/insertion-tools-hand.html
 

Online KL27x

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 06:43:47 pm »
That one looks like it's used to insert the bifurcated terminals. I'm not sure what those are good for. I think they are for soldering wires to? Seems like needle nose pliers would work fine for that, since it doesn't matter if they get scratched up.

I made a tool that might work for inserting the regular posts, but I dunno. I've never used those things.

What I made is for taking a normal pin header (in case you can't find your long headers) and pushing the pins in so they are centered in the plastic spacer. This give enough length on the bottom to stick and stay in a breadboard, but enough length on top for holding a couple connections. It's very simple, just a piece of 3mm wire inside a 0.062" brass tube and put in a handle.

0.062" brass tube slips over the 0.025" square pins just right. 3mm steel wire inside the tube presses on the tip of the pin. The length of the hollow brass tube indexes against the plastic spacer to get the length just right. This is glued into a handle (eyeglass screwdriver with the bit pulled out).

In practice, I would break off a piece of header, stick it in the breadboard (the pins engage but just barely past the tapered/sharp point, so if the header tips it will fall out), then use this tool to stake every 4th or 5th pin deeper, so the header doesn't move around and fall out under use.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:06:26 pm by KL27x »
 

Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 06:53:18 pm »
... noted that vector sells this insertion tool for posts. is really needed?....

It is pleasant to have if you need to insert more than a few terminals. I think I still have my A13 from the early 1980s. [Ha, I still do. The rubber head is now hard, but has not cracked.]
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 06:59:32 pm by jfiresto »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 06:59:46 pm »
This is a really good supplier. However I only see sockets (that trash has sockets too, very fine trash), I dont know if posts are needed too for discrete passive components. I saw forked sockets like this

Are sockets like this adequate to hold 2pin passive components?

Yes, these are meant for mounting discrete components. But the one you show is not for wire wrapping, by the looks of it. Neither does the product page on the site jfiresto gave mention wire wrapping for this part: https://www.peconnectors.com/component-carriers/hws2807/. I think this is meant to go into a regular IC socket, if e.g. you want to swap a set of resistors and/or capacitors quickly.
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 07:08:23 pm »
This is a really good supplier. However I only see sockets (that trash has sockets too, very fine trash), I dont know if posts are needed too for discrete passive components. I saw forked sockets like this

Are sockets like this adequate to hold 2pin passive components?

Yes, these are meant for mounting discrete components. But the one you show is not for wire wrapping, by the looks of it. Neither does the product page on the site jfiresto gave mention wire wrapping for this part: https://www.peconnectors.com/component-carriers/hws2807/. I think this is meant to go into a regular IC socket, if e.g. you want to swap a set of resistors and/or capacitors quickly.

The headers shown are inserted into regular wire-wrap DIP sockets.  This was very common back in the heyday of wire-wrap.   I never really liked them since the component leads + wrap wires ended up being fairly long, but they were OK for LED current limiting resistors and things like that.
 

Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 07:12:16 pm »
Doesn't everything get fairly long if you are wire wrapping?
 
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Offline coldfiremc

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2019, 07:54:18 pm »
Well. I have "logistical" problems, because shipping is more expensive than the items itself. Also, providers like PE connectors do not distribute outside US (i'm from chile so...). I previously bought stuff from europe (east end west) and had "better" shipping rates. Most of this stuff is stocked in north america
 

Online KL27x

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 08:04:22 pm »
Quote
Doesn't everything get fairly long if you are wire wrapping?
The buildings are taller, but there's still only one level. Thicker PCB.

Compared to breadboarding with 22AWG jumper wires, it is way more streamlined and less prone to error. This why I suffer the extra time to wrap. It saves headaches in the end. You can make all your wire wrap jumpers tight as a guitar string. That plus being so thin, you can easily see where each connection goes. It just takes more time to remove it and fix it, but that's the easier part of the equation vs debugging/diagnostic.
 
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Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2019, 08:11:20 pm »
Well. I have "logistical" problems, because shipping is more expensive than the items itself. Also, providers like PE connectors do not distribute outside US (i'm from chile.)....

This is from the Phoenix Enterprises FAQ section:

Quote
Q: What about the International Orders?
A: Canadian online orders may be processed if your credit card supports AVS. Canadian customers are responsible for any duties, taxes, customs brokerage fees. Other countries: please contact us with your requirements for an order with quantities and the country of destination. We will respond with details as soon as possible.

Elsewhere, they imply they accept orders from outside North America, just possibly not online. I would ask them about typical shipping charges: they may have a special deal with a part of the U.S. post and shipping oligopoly (because markets!).
 

Offline GerryR

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 08:37:11 pm »
OK Machine and Tool Corp. made a nice combination tool, wrap, unwrap and strip, WSU-30, about the size of a small "tweeker" screwdriver.  I literally have used it for stripping,wrapping and unwrapping thousands of wires, still have it and still use it.  I haven't checked to see if OK is still around, but thought maybe you can find one of these on Ebay.  If you need a picture, let me know and I will take and post one.
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Offline jmelson

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2019, 08:41:32 pm »
If you are going to build IC-based stuff, just look for wirewrap sockets on ebay. You may be shocked at the prices. As far as tools go, if you are going to wirewrap more than a few sockets, find a used electric wirewrap gun. Be careful not to buy a pneumatic or battery-powered version. The first is impossible to use and the second is unlikely to have a good battery.
I have a Gardner-Denver air-powered hand wirewrap tool.  It works GREAT, and is vastly quieter than their electric model.  I much prefer it to the electric one, which makes a HUGE bang when the indexing pawl stops the motor.  The pawl hits so hard it actually destroys the old plastic parts in the electric tool.
Of course, you need an air compressor for the air tool.

Jon
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2019, 12:16:37 am »
Quote
Unless you are very experienced with a wire wrap gun, you should always use a manual unwrap tool. and honestly, unless you are unwrapping a zillion posts, a manual tool is the better choice.
My unwrapping tool IS manual. Maybe I have a bad one. I find it's way easier to use those other two methods.

When I breadboard, I wire wrap almost exclusively, to pin headers pushed into the board. When I'm done, I unwrap and throw away all the wires and keep the headers. So I've done a fair bit of unwrapping. Albeit in this case, I think I cut the wires and unravel them from the bottom end. Been awhile, TBH.

Yes it is very likely you have a crappy or worn-out tool, I have encountered many in past years. The internal dimensioning of the tool is critical to get good wraps. I still have a ''golden'' OK tool wsu-30 , decades old. It is actually the standard anodized blue color not golden, but golden in operation. Unwraps as well, but that isn't as demanding of high precision.
 Unless the original poster has a huge quantity of wire-wrap sockets, I would recommend simple point to point soldering of magnet wire or wire wrap wire. It is what I do now even though I am fast and proficient in actual wire-wrapping as I used to do it professionally.

 
 
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Online KL27x

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2019, 02:03:20 am »
I think it's possible you completely misunderstood my posts?

Manually unwrapping is the problem I had, not wrapping. I think it is also a bit demanding, perhaps. Because FWIW, my unwrap tool is from an OK Industries WSU-30, at least as much as I can remember. It was off a double ended tool with a hexagonal bar (of I wanna say it was blue anodized aluminum?)* for the handle, and there was a wire stripper blade you poke the wire into. I clearly remember it was OK Industries, but I can't be certain of the model number. (Because I dismantled it for the bits, not liking the wire stripper). Anyhow, it had the tendency to grab two loops of wire and then just seize the tool as you twisted; you have to watch and carefully attain the end of the wire, only, or you basically cross-threaded things. This is using standard pin header, which I measured out to 25 thous, which I understand to be the standard post for this wire. oops! see edit at bottom Kynar wire from Wes Bel (I think, or something like that?), which drop ships many components including this wire for Mouser.

*And that was before I went back and noticed the full details of your post. Went back to quote this:
Quote
The internal dimensioning of the tool is critical to get good wraps.

I can't be sure which one of my wrapping tools is from the Oki tool, anymore. IIRC, it worked pretty ok. I have wrapping bits from at least 5 different sources/tools, and I have compared their performance and viewed the wraps and bits under magnification. To me, the best is from the vintage Radio Shack wrap tools which used to be marked that they were made in Japan... near perfect tension of the wrap and no problems with double-wrapping.** The only thing that bothered me was that the first wrap wasn't tight against the board or header spacer. So I sanded a couple thous off the end of mine. This wrap tool also happened to have the most intricate parts with the most complex (I imagine) machining and the best finishing under the microscope. All others were a bit simplified in comparison.

I seem to recall some instructions on the original cardboard backing, perhaps, which said that it was also an unwrap tool. Instructions to turn CCW a half turn or whatnot to loosen the wrap. I found the wrap will then slide off, easily, in one piece. Maybe it doesn't work with all wrap tools.

**One of my wrap tools had this problem, because the internal bore was too big. It worked if you learned the trick, but if you didn't, you could get the wrap over itself. This was from an OKI tool that was a like a large blue plastic pen with a wrap bit for the tip, a spool of wire on the end, and a slide lock on the side. It is completely possible they were intended for a different kind of wire. I bought them used, and they indeed came loaded with a 30AWG wire with a non Kynar and significantly larger diameter outer insulation.

edit: Just dug out the unwrapping tool and tried it. And it seems like it works every time on standard pin header. I must have given up on it years back when I had wrapped a bunch of connection directly to thru hole IC leads.  |O Well, I put it back on my tool rack, lol.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 03:11:42 am by KL27x »
 

Online jfiresto

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 08:40:15 am »
OK Machine and Tool Corp. made a nice combination tool, wrap, unwrap and strip, WSU-30, about the size of a small "tweeker" screwdriver.  I literally have used it for stripping,wrapping and unwrapping thousands of wires, still have it and still use it.  I haven't checked to see if OK is still around, but thought maybe you can find one of these on Ebay.  If you need a picture, let me know and I will take and post one.

OK was taken over by Jonard Industries, now Jonard Tools. You can see their current, manual wrap and unwrap tools here.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 08:49:05 am by jfiresto »
 
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Offline netdudeuk

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Re: Wirewrap parts
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2019, 10:15:40 am »
This is how I used standard DIP sockets for wire wrapping -

https://twitter.com/hunter_nigel/status/993030198156251136?s=20
 


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