Worth it to use linux?

[Simon]

well at the minute I'm concerned about having usable aoftware. I don't know what restrictions you refer to but quality of code should be paramount. I don't need an OS where main features fail to work.

[Monkeh]

I don't need an OS where main features fail to work.

Which is why I don't use Windows. Not using Windows gets me working printers, for a start.

[saturation]

FWIW Android OS and Tomtom 1 GPS units run the Linux kernel. 

[firewalker]

Don't forget the TiVo! 

Alexander.

[Slobodan]

This is why I use Linux (Ubuntu 12.4.1):

- I despise globalist Microsoft and baby killer Bill Gates
- Linux is free (both as a freedom (you control OS, OS does not control you) and as free of charge)
- Linux is open source (so it doesn't have back door, unlike Windows, for example)
- Linux is more stable (can run for years without need for reinstallation)
- Linux does not require maintenance (for example ext4 file system does not fragmente so there is no need for defragmentation every week or so)
- There are practically no viruses for Linux (so there is not a need for antivirus software, which means that I don't have to pay antivirus companies to protect my computer from viruses they create themselves)
- There are more than hundred of OS based on Linux
- Practically all software for Linux is free (free as freedom and as free of charge)
- There are few desktop environments you can choose for your OS (like unity, xfce, gnome, kde,...)
- You can customise Linux more than you can Windows
- All your updates are centralised (all you have to do is add a repository for your program once, and Linux automatically updates everything for you)
- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)
- It is completely in my language
- And a million other things that I can't remember at the top of my head...

But hey, that's just me.

[Monkeh]

- Linux does not require maintenance (for example ext4 file system does not fragmente so there is no need for defragmentation every week or so)

Myth.

- All your updates are centralised (all you have to do is add a repository for your program once, and Linux automatically updates everything for you)

Depends on the software you use. And the distro. And whether you find the supplied packages suitable.

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

Very much not true, especially for laptops. Sometimes there is a lot of messing around to do. But Windows is no better. Some hardware just plain sucks.

[SeanB]

One thing I do like is that desktops are mostly able to work with each other. Some KDE applications are a lot better than the Gnome version ( and vice versa of course) and so I run mostly Gnome, but the KDE apps work well enough in it. Of course you do need 2 sets of libraries, and there is a little overhead in having both running, but they are pretty stable. Uptime for me is now 78 days 6 hours 12 minutes since the last long power failure. Might restart sometime to finish the kernel updates that are scheduled.......

Windows needs a restart at least every month on the second wednesday........... That window is really annoying on the update screen, though I do not close it, just move it to the edge and nearly off until I am ready.

[Slobodan]

- Linux does not require maintenance (for example ext4 file system does not fragmente so there is no need for defragmentation every week or so)

Myth.

Well, it is not perfect, but compared to Windows...

- All your updates are centralised (all you have to do is add a repository for your program once, and Linux automatically updates everything for you)

Depends on the software you use. And the distro. And whether you find the supplied packages suitable.

That is true, but again, in Windows you have to update every program separately, instead of just clicking one button like in Linux...

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

Very much not true, especially for laptops. Sometimes there is a lot of messing around to do. But Windows is no better. Some hardware just plain sucks.

Well, as I said, there are exemptions. But most of the drivers are included in the kernel.

[free_electron]

- I despise globalist Microsoft and baby killer Bill Gates

Communism doesn't work. Gates never killed babies. As a matter of fact, Gates is the largest charity donor in the world..

- Linux is free (both as a freedom (you control OS, OS does not control you) and as free of charge)

linux kernel is controlled by a control freak so even his best buddies abandon him ( the guy that did TTy told torvalds to stuff it and walked away. ) Torvalds has 'holy crusades' against 'binary blob's in the kernel.

- Linux is open source (so it doesn't have back door, unlike Windows, for example)

Bullshit. just becasue you have the source doesn't mean you are secure. How much of the source have you read ? understand ? know all the interactions with other modules ? unless you have actually verified every line of code and knows what it does you are just as blind as someone that does not have the code as you need to trust someone else ...

- Linux is more stable (can run for years without need for reinstallation)

linux has more bugfixes on a daily basis than windows has on a monthly basis... almost every day ubuntu and other popular distro's have 'patches'....
I havent reinstalled windows on any of my machines in the last 10 years.

- Linux does not require maintenance (for example ext4 file system does not fragmente so there is no need for defragmentation every week or so)

os <> filesystem ...

protect my computer from viruses they create themselves

here come the tinfoil hats...

- There are more than hundred of OS based on Linux

and that is why it is a pest ! too many flavors , too many forks ,and a nightmare to cross-port all fixes. it's a friggin twit-race. Bang ... and they all take off in a different direction. If all the effort that was spent on the forks was combined to release 1 uniform system then linux would rule the world. now it's just a can of stale spaghetti...

- Practically all software for Linux is free (free as freedom and as free of charge)

and in a perpetual half-finished , undocumented, not usable state ... see the forking problem above...

- There are few desktop environments you can choose for your OS (like unity, xfce, gnome, kde,...)

oh goodie.. here we go again. who gives a rats ass about the color sceme and windowing manager eye candy ? I want applications that work. Any linux forum is stranded in endless gnome <> kde , vi <> emacs and other moot discussions. Besides 'X' is the biggest failure of all time.

- You can customise Linux more than you can Windows

give me a system that doesn't need customisation. So i can be productive. the Os is only there to load applications in memory , handle the hardware and that's it. You use applications, not the operating system. the OS is just a gigantic library that does common menial tasks so the apps programmers don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

- All your updates are centralised (all you have to do is add a repository for your program once, and Linux automatically updates everything for you)

if they can figure out which installer package they are going to use... this installer works only on ubuntu , that one only on red hat ...
forking problem...

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

got your wifi card working yet ? what about the scanner or fax in a HP all-in-one ? ar any other piece of hardware that needs to rely on 'user-written' drivers. There is very few hardware and peripheral manufacturers out there that support linux. almost none.

- It is completely in my language

if learning english is too much work ...

[poptones]

linux kernel is controlled by a control freak.... Torvalds has 'holy crusades' against 'binary blob's in the kernel.

Because blobs are unsupportable. Anyone can put anything in a blob, and once you introduce it to the kernel the entire "free software" ecosystem becomes suspect.

The rest of your remarks are so full of misinformation as to be considered a troll.

[SeanB]

One thing I like is that mass storage devices are recognised automatically and, depending on the distro and how you set the options, automounted. Add FuseFS and you can read and write to almost _ANY_ file system you can put on a drive. Sometimes I forget the USB drive is ext3/4 and plug it into a windows box, where it causes some confusion. Gnome defaults to automount and bringing up a query window if there is an autorun file present, or it detects a photo card, otherwise a file window is opened.

Contrast this to windows where plugging a drive it has never seen before brings up a driver install dialog...... Go through all the motions, windows wants to reboot, but the drive is now accessible. Until recently autorun was on by default.

[Monkeh]

- Linux is more stable (can run for years without need for reinstallation)

linux has more bugfixes on a daily basis than windows has on a monthly basis... almost every day ubuntu and other popular distro's have 'patches'....

That is a completely bullshit 'statistic', and you know it. Linux distros come with a vast amount of software, Windows comes with practically nothing.

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

got your wifi card working yet ? what about the scanner or fax in a HP all-in-one ? ar any other piece of hardware that needs to rely on 'user-written' drivers. There is very few hardware and peripheral manufacturers out there that support linux. almost none.

Yes to all of the above. It's easier to get a printer working on Linux than Windows, and doesn't require a 50MB package consisting of a load of gigantic flashy buttons and ten prompts to do things you have no interest in doing, just to print something. Quite a few of them support Linux 'unofficially' (ie. they pay a developer or two to help with supporting a driver for which they take no legal responsibility).

[psycho0815]

Well this looks to me like just another flamewar, but here are my two cents anyway. Basically, if you have to ask if it's worth to use linux than the answer is no. I mean what is it supposed to be worth for? These days windows is actually pretty darn good. Yeah there's that virus thing, but you can get around it with virus-scanners and if there were more people using linux there would be more viruses and trojans for it (As a matter of fact writing viruses for linux is a bit harder than for windows, but in the end it's just a matter of motivation). As for the Hardware thing. Yeah there are some issues. But if you got normal quality hardware, you should be fine. Nvidia optimus is the obvious exception, but apart from that, don't buy dodgy hardware and you won't have to deal with dodgy drivers .
I guess what i'm trying to say is: Most peaople seem to believe, linux is just like windows only better. But it really isn't it's a lot different from windows and it's not necessarily better either. If you want something that just works(most of the time), and don't want to worry about software working or not you'll probably be fine with wndows, if you're ok with paying to use something you've already paid for that is. If you want  something that just works most of the time without paying for it, go for linux, but don't whine if some software doesn't work because it only runs on windows. Just use what you need. if you need some specific piece of software, that only runs under windows than obviously windows is the way to go. If you decide to use Linux, you just have to accept right now that some things might not work like expected or at all. That's the price you pay for not paying a price.
Most people want windows for free, and linux just isn't it. These days it's mostly about taste. I like GNU/Linux better for various reasons, but the win7 on my workpc works just fine too.

[poptones]

That is a completely bullshit 'statistic', and you know it. Linux distros come with a vast amount of software, Windows comes with practically nothing.

That's not bullshit at all, but it's hardly a liability. I've seen zero day exploits patched within hours and sent out via updates. With Windows you don't even when (or if) they're going to get patched - for example this one that was published in the beginning of May and "patched" in August.

Look at the exploits in the wild - it's not open source software that's getting attacked, it's Java and Adobe reader and Flash player - all of which also come to the open source community in the form of unfixable, unpatchable, binary blobs. Look at the known exploits for Windows or linux and you'll see hundreds of entries for Adobe, probably the worse of the offenders. Any system is only secure as its weakest link - and the weakest link, proven time and again, is closed source, proprietary software.

[psycho0815]

Java isn't the best example here, because for most linux users java means openJDK which is of course Open Source. but generally your right of course. Most security holes are in the software rather than the os itself. but that argument can be made for both windows and linux, unless you consider the internet explorer part of windows, than windows would be much worse of course

[Monkeh]

That is a completely bullshit 'statistic', and you know it. Linux distros come with a vast amount of software, Windows comes with practically nothing.

That's not bullshit at all, but it's hardly a liability.

It is bullshit. People are constantly pulling the 'oh, but it gets patched so much more' card out, but you cannot compare the numbers with Windows patches.

[psycho0815]

true. but it's no more comparing apples with oranges than anything else. people do seem to continually forget that Linux is not windows and Linux distros are even less like windows. To compare the frequency of patches you would obviously have to compare Linux patches to windows and every piece of installed software. personally is think that Linux would still come out on top, but i have nothing to proof it.

[Alana]

For me linux or windows is a matter of usefullness, but usefullness FOR THE SPECIFIC TASK a computer is going to be used.

For example - for servers its better to use linux, simply because you may get rid of graphical front end and save resources. This approach also gives another perk - you can configure entire server by text files, and if you are dealing with many accounts simple copy+paste or a clever database script saves you allot of time and work.

But for desktop PC linux is in my opinion not as functional as windows. Home PC is mainly used for multimedia, internet browsing and games, and from what i experienced this is better handled by windows.
Same goes for EE software, especially if it comes to PCB programs. And its not a matter of having a program, its a matter of being compatible with rest of the world.
If i cannot open someone else projects, or someone else cannot open my projects work gets much harder.
I know that there is linux version of eagle, but my main PCB program is damn old version of protel, and i haven't found any protel compatible linux software.

[Slobodan]

- I despise globalist Microsoft and baby killer Bill Gates

Communism doesn't work. Gates never killed babies. As a matter of fact, Gates is the largest charity donor in the world..

I hate both communism and capitalism, and you sir are not well informed. How Bill Gates kills people using vaccines and GMO I will not discuss on this forum, because my posts would be deleted anyway. And yes, I am familiar with his "charitys".

- Linux is free (both as a freedom (you control OS, OS does not control you) and as free of charge)

linux kernel is controlled by a control freak so even his best buddies abandon him ( the guy that did TTy told torvalds to stuff it and walked away. ) Torvalds has 'holy crusades' against 'binary blob's in the kernel.

It can't be controlled, it's open source.

- Linux is open source (so it doesn't have back door, unlike Windows, for example)

Bullshit. just becasue you have the source doesn't mean you are secure. How much of the source have you read ? understand ? know all the interactions with other modules ? unless you have actually verified every line of code and knows what it does you are just as blind as someone that does not have the code as you need to trust someone else ...

Don't, just don't. It's pathetic.

- Linux is more stable (can run for years without need for reinstallation)

linux has more bugfixes on a daily basis than windows has on a monthly basis... almost every day ubuntu and other popular distro's have 'patches'....
I havent reinstalled windows on any of my machines in the last 10 years.

Already replied by the other forum members.

- Linux does not require maintenance (for example ext4 file system does not fragmente so there is no need for defragmentation every week or so)

os <> filesystem ...

No.

protect my computer from viruses they create themselves

here come the tinfoil hats...

I don't say all viruses are created by the antivirus companies.

- There are more than hundred of OS based on Linux

and that is why it is a pest ! too many flavors , too many forks ,and a nightmare to cross-port all fixes. it's a friggin twit-race. Bang ... and they all take off in a different direction. If all the effort that was spent on the forks was combined to release 1 uniform system then linux would rule the world. now it's just a can of stale spaghetti...

Not worth replying.

- Practically all software for Linux is free (free as freedom and as free of charge)

and in a perpetual half-finished , undocumented, not usable state ... see the forking problem above...

Not true.

- There are few desktop environments you can choose for your OS (like unity, xfce, gnome, kde,...)

oh goodie.. here we go again. who gives a rats ass about the color sceme and windowing manager eye candy ? I want applications that work. Any linux forum is stranded in endless gnome <> kde , vi <> emacs and other moot discussions. Besides 'X' is the biggest failure of all time.

It is not a "theme". If you change desktop environment than you change the whole way you interact with OS.

- You can customise Linux more than you can Windows

give me a system that doesn't need customisation. So i can be productive. the Os is only there to load applications in memory , handle the hardware and that's it. You use applications, not the operating system. the OS is just a gigantic library that does common menial tasks so the apps programmers don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

Not worth replying.

- All your updates are centralised (all you have to do is add a repository for your program once, and Linux automatically updates everything for you)

if they can figure out which installer package they are going to use... this installer works only on ubuntu , that one only on red hat ...
forking problem...

I use Ubuntu, so I am talking about how the situation with updates is with Ubuntu.

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

got your wifi card working yet ? what about the scanner or fax in a HP all-in-one ? ar any other piece of hardware that needs to rely on 'user-written' drivers. There is very few hardware and peripheral manufacturers out there that support linux. almost none.

The wifi worked straight away, so as the HP Photosmart C3180 (three-in-one).

- It is completely in my language

if learning english is too much work ...

Not worth replying.

[GeoffS]

As with most 'Why use linux?" threads, this one has gotten into a slanging match between Windows and Linux users.

To answer the original question, if Windows provides support of the EE software you want/need to use then keep using it. If cost is a concern and you want/need to use open source software then Linux may be worth a look (lot's of the open source stuff does run on Windows).
Linux is worth a look but if you find it all too much to learn or to maintain, then stick with Windows. There's no point putting up with an operating system that doesn't meet YOUR requirements.

[I'm a Linux tragic, a UNIX user/admin since the early 1980's and someone who has little knowledge of Windows other that at a user level. Linux does nearly everything I want and for those few things it can't support, I use Windows.]

[elliott]

- No messing around with drivers because everything works out of the box (of course, there are so many different hardware so there are exemptions)

got your wifi card working yet ? what about the scanner or fax in a HP all-in-one ? ar any other piece of hardware that needs to rely on 'user-written' drivers. There is very few hardware and peripheral manufacturers out there that support linux. almost none.

Do you realize HP is one of the manufacturers that does actively support Linux and their printers work quite well, including the dirt cheap networked all-in-one I currently use? As for wifi, Atheros supports Linux, Intel supports Linux, Broadcom supports Linux, just to name a few.

Ever wonder why the good wifi penetration testing tools are all Linux based? Linux has better wifi support than Windows.

[Simon]

indeed plugging my android phone into may laptop on debian instantly gives me internet access. To do the same in windows I am forced to install the complete htc suit just to get the tiny driver nedded to do the same.

I'm not sure what the comments on bill gates refer to. I do know that he is a Rotarian and is matching funds that Rotary raises to fuel Rotaries end polio campaign which seeks to eliminate polio from the world - just to set the records straight.

[Slobodan]

I'm not sure what the comments on bill gates refer to. I do know that he is a Rotarian and is matching funds that Rotary raises to fuel Rotaries end polio campaign which seeks to eliminate polio from the world - just to set the records straight.

Well, it's off topic, and I said that I won't discuss it on this forum, but just a quick one for you: http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/polio-vaccines-now-1-cause-of-polio.html

Of course, this is just a tip of the iceberg.

MODERATORS NOTE: FOLLOWUP POSTS TO THIS TOPIC DELETED. IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THIS, THEN OPEN A NEW THREAD. (preferably on another forum    )

[Ed.Kloonk]

I don't care what platform use or what your beliefs for doing so are. I really don't.

Most people whine something doesn't work. A small fraction of people are motivated to help out the leader of a small open source project but too many are discouraged because they run into a grumpy developer. That's our fault and we are sorry.
 
But if you think our code is so bad and you can't be bothered to even look under the hood a bit by downloading some source code and see why it's stuffed than you are part of the problem. Go away.
 
Too everyone else, have a nice day!

[free_electron]

How Bill Gates kills people using vaccines

ah the vaccine conspiracy ... you just shot your credibility to pieces.

and in a perpetual half-finished , undocumented, not usable state ... see the forking problem above...

[quote >Not true.[/quote]

Care to show me one finished, released , free (as in gratis and with full source) , completely and correctly documented, application that works as expected , is functionally equivalent to, and can be installed on any linux distro out there. You can pick from any of these categories: ( which is the software i want to use. this is an electronics forum , so you get to pick only from software related to that )

- Schematic / PCB  / simulation layout software
- IC design or FPGA design.
- Mechanical design software genre Solidworks / Autodesk inventor / Alibre
- Modeling software genre Rhino or Maya or Alias

good luck ...

Note : I do use linux where it is appropriate :
- as a file server in several NAS boxes. Zero problems. I have 5 NAS boxes all running Linux. Interact seemlessly with both Windows and Mac machines.
- as a home automation system. Zero problems, works like a champ.

My android tablets give a mediocre experience at best .. problems with the wifi that need hot patching... waiting 6 months to get ice cream sandwich release for them ...

I use a computer as a piece of equipment. i have ZERO interest in knowing how it works internally. to me a computer is similar to a screwdriver or a scope. i use it. i don't build them , don't need to know how they are built and i don't mod them.
The OS is there to let me run applications that allow me to do the things i want to do : draw schematics and design pcb's, design an enclosure for it and send it off to production.

And ,sadly, linux is not up to par on that front (at least not in the 'free' as in gratis and source supplied section )