X-Tronic XTS-8080 -- Is it safe?

[JJST]

Hello everyone,
This is my first post, and it may seem really stupid, but under the advice of Dave Jones, I registered specifically to ask this question.

Basically I need someone to put my mind at ease here, I have a rather unique situation...

I am not a technician, I know basically nothing about electronics. However I came across the EEVBlog videos on youtube and figured this was the best place to ask, so I e-mailed Mr. Jones, and he told me to register and ask here.

My brother is getting into electronics, and is basically teaching himself all of this stuff, using online classes (which he is paying for) and just by "tinkering". He decided that he needed to get a cheap soldering station and a hot air gun to continue learning while maintaining a budget, and after looking around he ended-up buying this X-Tronic 8080 unit on Amazon.
While I'm glad for his enthusiasm, I am concerned for his safety (and by extension for the rest of us ). I'm sure it's not the best unit in the world, although from what I can see the reviews on Amazon are mostly positive. The problem is basically no one has any information on this unit outside of that. No reputable videos on youtube, and nothing here on EEV either.

My question is, is this a safe unit for my brother to learn with, or is it going to blow-up in his face.
I can't really help him, because as I said, I am not electronically inclined, I'm a writer. So despite what Dave likes to say even if I "take it apart" I wouldn't even know what I'm looking at, or what to look for. And it's not technically my property anyway.

So, basically, what I'm asking is, not so much if it's a "good" unit; I'm sure it probably is fairly bad functionally -- but is it a safe unit.
Has anyone with knowledge taken it apart, or done a review?

(by the way, he thinks I'm crazy for being concerned, maybe I am -- writers typically aren't "normal" anyway )

Regards,
--James

[helius]

Is it safe?


Seriously, the combination of soldering tools together with a power supply is a bit concerning because they may not be properly isolated from one another. The hot air heater is also a line voltage (120VAC) unit located in the handpiece, which might be easily touched by the metal nozzles. I think the best practice for one of these tools is to use a sensitive GFCI (5 mA) and test it to make sure the tip or nozzle is properly grounded.

[wraper]

Whether it's safe or not, it's a heap of cheap crap for a lot of many. Basically it's $ 70 worth of Hot air and soldering iron at best + rubbish PSU and magnifier. Also combined units suck. It sucks not having PSU separately. It's even much more ergonomic to have a hot air and soldering iron separately. I'd suggest to return it if you still can.

[wraper]

You'd be far better with something like $95 Quick 957DW+ hot air, $80-90 soldering station (there are cheaper options if buying from China). Top it to around $280 total and even get a good PSU. You could even get a half decent PSU from aliexpress to not exceed the cost of 8080-XTS. That magnifier is a useless piece of junk, so you should not bother about getting it anyway.

[JJST]

Thanks for the replies.

To be clear. I didn't buy it, my brother did.
I am going to show him this thread -- and after a short but possibly heated argument, hopefully he will return the thing if it's truly dangerous.

Regards,
-- James

[wraper]

I don't think it's really dangerous. But IMO it's a lot of wasted money.

[JJST]

Well, I'm not qualified to really comment on that, although you are probably correct.
I'm more interested in the safety of the unit... if he can use it to continue his studies without the unit being an undue danger, then it's his money to waste.

[SpinDoctor]

Okay
enough of this. I'm his brother who bought the xtronic.
All I wanted was a small soldering iron and rework station to fit in my bedroom while i study electronics.
I know that it's no hakko or weller, but i dont think its a cheap knock off either.

My brother thinks that its going to explode or burn  down the house or something, so I'll let you guys here prove him wrong.
Here, i opened it up myself voiding my own warranty

Take a look and tell me if i need to call the fire Dept or ems
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/frb1p11696emigz/AAB4aTodjqX0Y4LxVSY-RggBa?dl=0

[westfw]

My brother thinks that its going to explode or burn  down the house or something

Well, a soldering iron easily gets got enough to set things on fire if you are unlucky.  It's job is to get HOT, and in that sense, it is never going to be wholy "safe."  Also, don't use the power supply to charge any non-rechargeable batteries, and be extra careful for other types.
Turn off and unplug when not in use...  Do not bury under laundry.
OTOH, I don't think I've ever heard of of exploding test equipment, so I don't think you have much to worry about.The insides look pretty good - in particular, the big-hunk-of-iron transformers somewhat imply mains-safety beyond what you might get with (say) a cheap computer switching supply.

[wraper]

OTOH, I don't think I've ever heard of of exploding test equipment, so I don't think you have much to worry about.The insides look pretty good - in particular, the big-hunk-of-iron transformers somewhat imply mains-safety beyond what you might get with (say) a cheap computer switching supply.

Frankly insides don't look that good, especially hand soldered SMT parts. For the $240 it costs I cannot call it anything other than a piece of crap. Hopefully switches it has actually disconnect those parts from the mains unlike this Luckey which can power the heater even when power switch is in off position.

https://youtu.be/m5kzyUFb2Sg

[EEVblog]

I have in the office a WEP brand hot air gun that literally melted, haven't investigated why.
The problem with these cheap brands is that we are dealing with heating elements that get hot. If the control loop fails or whatever they can race out of control and melt and potentially catch fire.
But I don't recall ever hearing of a soldering iron that failed and started a fire?
The hot air gun you are always there when using it, so not a problem. Irons tend to get left on and unattended though, but again, the odds of it failing and catching on fire are pretty remote.
Most likely scenario by far is that it simply fails because of some shoddy manufacturing defect.

Xtronic aren't a completely no-name Aliexpress thing, they are at least a US company and carry spare parts etc. So I probably wouldn't worry, I'd be stunned if there was anything inherently dangerous with it.

[chickenHeadKnob]

I have in the office a WEP brand hot air gun that literally melted, haven't investigated why.
The problem with these cheap brands is that we are dealing with heating elements that get hot. If the control loop fails or whatever they can race out of control and melt and potentially catch fire.
But I don't recall ever hearing of a soldering iron that failed and started a fire?
The hot air gun you are always there when using it, so not a problem. Irons tend to get left on and unattended though, but again, the odds of it failing and catching on fire are pretty remote.
Most likely scenario by far is that it simply fails because of some shoddy manufacturing defect.

Xtronic aren't a completely no-name Aliexpress thing, they are at least a US company and carry spare parts etc. So I probably wouldn't worry, I'd be stunned if there was anything inherently dangerous with it.

There appears to be two common failure modes with the wand type hot air unit. The first is as you allude to; the wand which has the heating element overheats, either the fan fails or control loop ect. The second mode is a triac which is always under power even when the unit is "off" failing short in the main box. That is likely the cause of the russian  workshop fire in the video linked. You can greatly mitigate both risks by only powering the unit when you are using it and in attendance. I have one of the cheapest of these 858D clones and always remove the plug completely when not using it, no way am I turning my back on that bastard.

[JJST]

I appreciate all of the responses.

After a bit of an argument, I believe that my brother at least understands that I'm not trying to sabotage his efforts; just that I am concerned about safety. (that video of the fire-starter was helpful in that regard).
As I mentioned before, I suppose what really unsettles me is the fact that as of now -- other than my brother -- no-one has ever looked at the insides of this model (or any X-Tronic station) from what I can tell.

And as two people mentioned here, one thinks the inside at least looks decent, the other says it is total crap. And sadly, now that my brother opened his, there's no possibility of a return or refund. Though I still don't think he's totally convinced.


Chalk it up to a learning experience I guess, and maybe he supplied a new entry on the journal to the folks here.
Just wish someone would actually do a real review/teardown of this model to see what the quality is really like.

I bought an extra ABC fire extinguisher this afternoon.

Regards,
--James

[SpinDoctor]

what is there to even be convinced about? Some guy left his iron on and it started a fire, so dont leave it unattended (duh)

Westfw thinks it looks ok, wraper thinks it doesnt, so its a wash.
Dont waste peoples time. At least i opened the damn thing, which instead of being afraid.
Just because something isnt a name brand doesn't make it garbage

[wraper]

I have in the office a WEP brand hot air gun that literally melted, haven't investigated why.

Good stations like Quick have thermal fuse next to the heater. So even if heater is powered without blower spinning, it won't catch fire. 861DS I have even detects that thermal response is abnormal and shuts down in a few seconds with beeping (I played with it a little bit).

[wraper]

what is there to even be convinced about? Some guy left his iron on and it started a fire, so dont leave it unattended (duh)

It was turned off with a power switch on the front panel. It's power switch don't actually disconnect internals from mains voltage and it does not have thermal fuse in the handle. Do you unplug every device from the mains when you leave the room? As I've read, when those catch fire (it's not 1 isolated incident), triac often is not even at fault. Just MCU glitch.

[wraper]

Just because something isnt a name brand doesn't make it garbage

It would be okayish if it did cost half of it's price.

[wraper]

I found what it actually was before being rebranded (by marking on the PCB I've seen on your photos). WEP 853D, the cheapest brand which have melted on Dave's desk. Changed front panel color, knobs and used blue indicators to make it look a bit different. But it's still the same unit with the same internals. As I've said, it would be somewhat okayish if it did cost half of it's price which it actually does. https://www.ebay.com/itm/853D-3-in1-Soldering-Rework-Station-5A-SMD-Solder-Iron-Hot-Air-Gun-4-Nozzle-220v/163115420701?epid=2076320807&hash=item25fa6fcc1d:g:zjsAAOSwcLxYM91j

https://youtu.be/RCfVBDzxewI

[westfw]

no-one has ever looked at the insides of this model

It's a piece of equipment.  One normally doesn't open them up an look at the insides until AFTER there are infamous failures :-(   I had a Weller that I paid about $70 bucks for (1980 dollars, so about $200 of today's $$)  I didn't take it apart until a couple years ago when it finally failed.  All IT had inside was a tranformer!  (OTOH, Weller was a trusted name, and "just a transformer" means less to fail.)
In general, I think "lab equipment" like this has less motivation for the vendors to "cut corners" than a really high-volume piece of consumer gear (like a phone charger or a hoverboard, to mention two items that have been pretty famous for having many unsafe version floating around...)

It would be okayish if it did cost half of it's price.

If we're arguing about safety, the "cost" isn't particularly relevant, right?I paid about $100 each for a temperature-controlled soldering iron, a hot air unit, and a lab power supply,  (none of them really high-end gear) so assuming that the Xytronics basically works (iron is actually temp-controlled, power supply is actually vaguely stable, etc (which are pretty easy things, given the state of electronics, as long as it's not a fraud)) then it doesn't seem that highly priced to me.  "Wraper" must have some good sources! (without arguing the flaws of having it all built into one unit.)

[wraper]

If we're arguing about safety, the "cost" isn't particularly relevant, right?

Well, if you know you bought it cheaply from China, you'd at least might be concerned about it's quality and not keep it connected to mains voltage when you are away. I don't think there is a high chance it will burn or electrocute but I would think twice keeping this thing on my desk.

[rawrs]

I can't speak for hot air rework, I don't have one. But I highly recommend a TS-100 for the soldering iron, and I have a DPS5020 on the way, they make a range of power supplies that run off power bricks, basically. The higher the input voltage, the higher the output voltage you can have.

Here is that Ruideng store.

Get whichever power supply you think you'll need, and grab the case for it too. It comes with everything you need to put it together, and it'll be a fun little hour or two project putting it all together to boot.

You can find the TS100 on AliExpress too, or eBay. Get the BS2 or other chisel tip with it. And also throw Ralim's firmware on it, it opens up a whole new experience.

Magnifying lamp, you can get anywhere.

Again, I can't speak for hot air, I don't have one - but I would appreciate advice on a budget hot air rework station, myself. The Atten hot air station seems to be fairly popular, but I'd like to hear what Dave has to say on this.

snip

I'm guessing you were referring to the Atten-style ones? Would you still recommend one despite this?

The way I think of it, I don't like unsafe electronics - at all. I will not touch a cheap power supply, power brick, etc, ever, I don't care how much the genuine article costs. But for something like a hot air rework station or a soldering iron, is safety really going to matter all that much? Neither of these things are pieces of equipment that should ever be left alone for absolutely any amount of time whatsoever, anyway. So if something goes bang, you'll know about it. Not like when I had a power brick short circuit and runaway, almost burning my house down. (If I didn't forget my wallet that night, it would have.)

TL;DR - don't buy these combo stations. Muilti-purpose anything is generally a case of "it's ok at those things, but not great at anything". Pretty much 100% of the time, you are far better off with individual components, no matter what it is - soldering/rework stations, power supplies, power tools, whatever. Buy the proper thing and it'll do the job better, I guarantee it.

[SpinDoctor]

Yeah, i get it. I didn't buy the thing to be the ultimate hakko killer, i bought it to save some space and stay on budget while i continue my classes
It does kinda look like that thing in your video though a bit different. The guy seemed to like it though, and commented in part 2 that it still works
Xtronic is a american company, and most people keep saying the chinese stuff is bad, but the seem to love that quick hot air gun, so what am i missing here

[bc888]

I wish I had a brother like that. Mine would stand back, watch and then snicker when it zapped me. One time I walked through a ground hornet nest my brothers knew of. The wasps followed me for @1/2 a city block, stinging all the way.

Bastards. The wasps were nasty too.     Anyway, I'm new too and learning and watching, I appreciate the discussion here, and now have one more thing to worry about, not burning the house down with the even cheaper unit I bought off Banggood. I want to add that the reviews on Amazon for this unit are very very good in aggregate. 4.3 out of 5 stars vs Weller WES51  4.4 out of 5 (many more reviews though).  Good luck to you both.

[wraper]

Xtronic is a american company

American sales company. They only resell already existing Chinese crap at much higher price. They don't design anything. And their address is a small warehouse.

most people keep saying the chinese stuff is bad

Chinese stuff is very different. Chinese make/design a lot of crap and a lot of excellent things. X-tronic sells goods which lean more on the crappy side. Also IMHO they imitate XYtronic-USA company name (which makes good soldering equipment) to confuse people. http://www.xytronic-usa.com

[james_s]

It's probably not unsafe, at least as these things go. Any soldering or desoldering tool can start a fire if you aren't careful so never leave it running unattended. It's a bizarre combination of things though, combining all that stuff together is a bit like a combination toothbrush/toilet brush/hand towel/shaver, they're all things that are often used in the same general space but it hardly makes sense to bolt them together.