#39 pic kits

[invent]

I wanted to purchase the pickit2. Should I purchase the "pickit2 starter kit" or "pickit2 debug express". I have used microchip products with third parties programmers in the past.  I thought the debugging functions would be helpful. Can I also debug with the “pickit2 starter kit"? Any advice on which to pick.

Thanks,

[migsantiago]

Hello

You can debug most of the PICs with just the Pickit2 programmer and no boards else...

http://www.microchipdirect.com/productsearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164120

Some old pics require an ICD header and a special connector, so it's up to you if you just buy the programmer or the whole kit.

In order to know if you'll require the whole kit, check the programmable-debuggable pics in this list:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en027813

The pickit2 main page:

http://www.microchip.com/pickit2

I only have the programmer and have never required any board else.

[Simon]

I bought the pickit2 on it's own and have been quite happy with it, I've never got round to using the debugger, as i understood it, it was just a better than nothing logic analyser ? but of course useful if you have nothing else although i prefer to use a scope where i can.

Bear in mind that whatever you buy straight off microchip will come out much more expensive than they show, my pickit2 started as listed at £17.5 and ended up at £37 delivered after VAT, handling charges and shipping, to be honest to advertise something for £17.5 knowing they will put another 5 on it for handling (that there is no exemption for anyway) is not very nice but who can argue with a big corporation.

[migsantiago]

I bought my Pickit2 from mexico.newark.com and at the end I payed 47.15USD.

[Simon]

I would think ordering stuff in bulk direct from microchip becomes much cheaper but one offs are not cheap, it's cheaper and faster to get pics from farnell/RS than microchip unless your buying thousands

[ElektroQuark]

Yeah, I have been recently buying some Microchip development items and the quote was significantly cheaper from farnell than Microchip itself.

[Simon]

it's because at least for the UK they do not hold stock so I think they send it straight from asia, else they are just ripping us off

[scrat]

I bought the pickit2 on it's own and have been quite happy with it, I've never got round to using the debugger, as i understood it, it was just a better than nothing logic analyser ? but of course useful if you have nothing else although i prefer to use a scope where i can.

I think a debugger is much more than a logic analyser. It allows you to instantly see how variables and internal registers are set, without the need to put them on an output pin (which in some cases can be impossible), or to see if a piece of code gets executed or not. For example, this way I easily found some errors in peripheral libraries, and now I usually take a look at all the registers involved, if something seems not right. Of course, you can't use it in some cases (especially when working with converters or controllers), but I think it is still useful.
I own a homemade clone of the MPLAB ICD2 (the debugger from Microchip), and it works quite well with MPLAB (even if breakpoints management isn't so good). It is easy to find on the net schematics, layout and firmware to make a clone, and it will cost much less than the original (the major cost comes from a PIC18F4550 and a PIC18F877A, but I received them as free samples).

[Simon]

I think your talking about the junebug ? by blue room electronics, that seems to be a good replacement for the pickit2

[Mechatrommer]

Hello
You can debug most of the PICs with just the Pickit2 programmer and no boards else...

how to do the real debugging with pk2? coz so far what i know it only capable of simulated debugging in MPLAB

[migsantiago]

Hello
You can debug most of the PICs with just the Pickit2 programmer and no boards else...

how to do the real debugging with pk2? coz so far what i know it only capable of simulated debugging in MPLAB

Just enable the debugging tool as Pickit2 in the Debug menu.

The step by step functions, breakpoints, watches, inspectors and everything else you use in the MPLAB SIM tool, are now replaced with the real time data the Pickit2 collects. Simple. 

[Simon]

I think the pickit2 has a built in logic analyser, to debug you probably need something else

[migsantiago]

The pickit2 has a built-in logic analyzer and a built-in debugger. You need nothing else (for most of the pics).

It also has a UART tool, Logic input/outputs and a variable power supply from 2.5V to 5V with up to 100mA output.

[scrat]

I never used a PicKit 2 until now. From what you said, it has nothing less than MPLAB ICD2, perhaps something more. Why does it cost much less?
I always thought that PicKit2 had some restricted feaures about debugging, so I didn't go so much in deep.

[TopherTheME]

I wish the pickit 2 supported the PIC32 chips. 

The manual board power thing really ticks me off.

[Simon]

microchip might have made some good token efforts over pickit3 being improved but I would still call them cheats and dishonest, as far as I know apart from not being kept up to date and the few extra's 3 offers there was no need for the "upgrade" is was just to drag more money out of people. Basically microsoft tactics

[migsantiago]

I wish the pickit 2 supported the PIC32 chips. 

The manual board power thing really ticks me off.

I can program my PIC32MX420F032H and my PIC32MX440F512H just using my Pickit2. What I can't do is debug them.

There are some PIC32s out there that can be programmed with the Pickit2.

PIC32 Devices

    * PIC32MX320F032H, 320F064H
    * PIC32MX320F128H, 320F128L
    * PIC32MX340F128H, 340F128L
    * PIC32MX340F256H
    * PIC32MX340F512H
    * PIC32MX360F256L, 360F512L
    * PIC32MX420F032H
    * PIC32MX440F128L, 440F128H
    * PIC32MX440F256H
    * PIC32MX440F512H
    * PIC32MX460F256L, 460F512L

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en027813

[Simon]

are there open source versions of the firmware/software, it would be great if someone gave microchip the kick up the ass they deserve by rewriting the firmware for pickit 2 and 3 so that 2 supports all the later chips and 3 actually works

[scrat]

I don't know how it is for the Pickit 2/3, but for the ICD2 someone ripped up the FW (or made one equivalent, but I don't think so), take a look at here: http://www.icd2clone.com/wiki/Main_Page
Probably the same happened for Pickit2, it is a little less probable for Pickit3, since it is too recent.
Then one should also modify the PC software (even the driver?) to implement different things from the original version... Not an easy task, starting from the assembly!

[migsantiago]

are there open source versions of the firmware/software, it would be great if someone gave microchip the kick up the ass they deserve by rewriting the firmware for pickit 2 and 3 so that 2 supports all the later chips and 3 actually works

Yes, there are. Microchip released the firmware, electronic diagrams and Visual Studio source code for the Pickit2. It's not a secret:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1960

There are lots of Pickit2 clones around the internet. I think the Pickit2 firmware is perfect. There's no need to modify it, IMHO.

I don't know about the pickit3 source code... I've seen some A!tium files which have the inners of the pickit3, which uses a PIC24 and also include its firmware. I don't know if Microchip released it or if it's a hacked Pickit3.

[migsantiago]

It's a PIC24 hex. You can modify it if you know ASM and have the patience to analyze thousands of lines.

The hex can be updated via MPLAB or Pickit3 beta.

[Simon]

so could the pickit2 be updated to support later chips ?

[migsantiago]

so could the pickit2 be updated to support later chips ?

It is constantly being updated by Microchip to do so.

But it works with a PIC18F and therefore it has its limits. That's why you can't debug a PIC32 with a PIC18.

Just buy a Pickit3, it's not that bad.

[Simon]

yea 2 fills my needs so far so I will wait until I need it

[TopherTheME]

Just buy a Pickit3, it's not that bad.

I own one, its ok in most respects. Its very fast and does everything I ask it to without issue. I bought mine for $35 shipped with a student discount, but if I paid full price for one I would probably be complaining more. There really isn't much room to complain if you think about it. Although its not as fully featured as the 2, it programs and debugs every modern microchip uC out there for a fraction of the cost of other manufacturer's programers *cough* atmel *cough*.

[migsantiago]

Dave's reviews can be harsh and people may only listen to the bad stuff about the product.

I would also buy a Pickit3 if I needed one. For now, my pickit2 is enough for my programming-debugging tasks.

[EEVblog]

Dave's reviews can be harsh and people may only listen to the bad stuff about the product.

I would also buy a Pickit3 if I needed one. For now, my pickit2 is enough for my programming-debugging tasks.

I would also buy the PICkit3. My review was actually a comparison of it compared to the PICkit2 at the time (and it was a long tie ago now), i..e from the perspective of an "upgrade". At it stands it wasn't actually as bad as my ranting led many to believe, and has likely improved greatly since then.

Dave.

[migsantiago]

then maybe you should do an "upgrade" video review about pickit3. we should be interested in the latest feautures/benefits of it.

Definitely. Many people only know the pickit3 thru his video.

An update video would be fair.

[Simon]

I'd love to see a video of 3 as it stands now, I really still don't get what the new features are supposed to be. from what I can tell all microchip have done is go microsoft style and stop support for a perfectly good product and then release one that does the same thing but looks better and will get the upgrades and support that the old version could benefit from equally and still be a better product overall

[nathanc]

So I'm even more confused now... should I get a pickit 2 or 3?

[TopherTheME]

So I'm even more confused now... should I get a pickit 2 or 3?

I would just go ahead and get the pickit3. The pickit2 is now obsolete and doesn't fully support some of the nicer chips that microchip now sells. There is nothing that the pickit2 can do that the pickit3 can't in terms of programming/debugging. Its just some of the extra features are nice to have.

[migsantiago]

Yeah, the pickit3 will keep you updated with every new PIC on the market.

[Simon]

So I'm even more confused now... should I get a pickit 2 or 3?

wait until pickit4 is announced! use your instinct!

if it ever is it will surely be crap, they have a good product and should work to keep it so.