Author Topic: A protest!  (Read 25330 times)

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Offline Macbeth

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2015, 01:59:09 pm »
Yeah, but I guess it is needed for some people living in countries where authorities aren't that nice. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you are talking about the countries that I think you are talking about, the country flag setting will make no difference...
They are being tracked anyway.

Exactly! Hence my flag  :-DD

As for putting the country name instead of the flag image, well colour me a closet vexillologist.

The country name is in the tag when you hover the mouse over the flag. I know this as I am constantly testing my flag knowledge this way ;D Keep it like it is, I like it when I get it right  :-+

Ok, now that we know flags should be enforced, may I demand that people disclose their ages? I refuse to speak to anyone if I don't know their age. It's unprofessional. (Just kidding, spare the banhammer! I remember this being suggested once before)  ;)
 

Offline zapta

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2015, 03:00:00 pm »
As far as I am concerned, a black flag means you are a submarine and are surrendering.

"There are two types of naval vessel: submarines and targets."

An old saying.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 03:18:46 pm by zapta »
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Offline steves

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2015, 01:46:59 am »
If only there was a white flag I would have hoisted it long ago.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2015, 02:28:44 am »
I have to agree with tautech on the black flag option it's better than no flag at all and indicates to others that the member has made a consideration in relation to  disclosing their location.

Muttley

The black flag should be selected with an option called "I have a very good reason not to show my country, I'm sorry".


I don't feel I have ever been treated differently for my flag. Well, this country is not that relevant in the big scheme of things anyways.  :-//
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 02:37:47 am by ivan747 »
 

Online tautech

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2015, 02:41:47 am »
Well, this country is not that relevant in the big scheme of things anyways.  :-//
Except for it's reknown for gorgeous women.  8)
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Offline Fungus

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2015, 06:43:28 am »
The black flag should be selected with an option called "I have a very good reason not to show my country, I'm sorry".
The people proposing this obviously don't think there are any good reasons.

Every single person in the world should be standing up and shouting about how proud they are of the statistically insignificant event of their birthplace/religion/color/etc. 

As to the 'buying advice!!' problem: I think it's better to put in a big sticky 'read this before asking what to buy' post and have a boilerplate reply that says "Please read THIS and try asking that again..."

Anybody caught NOT posting the boilerplate reply to an offending question can be publicly flamed and shamed. Maybe three non-boilerplate replies could even get you banned from the forum. Problem solved.

This solution keeps the problem localized without dragging the entire Internet into toeing a line only being advocated by a minority. That's the way the Internet has always worked, that's the way the Internet should work.


 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2015, 06:55:45 am »
Every single person in the world should be standing up and shouting about how proud they are of the statistically insignificant event of their birthplace/religion/color/etc. 
Oh, Phuleeeeze!   :scared:
This is about very practical things like mains power voltage, acquisition source availability, shipping, import tariffs, etc.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2015, 07:38:20 am »
Oh, Phuleeeeze!   :scared:
This is about very practical things like mains power voltage, acquisition source availability, shipping, import tariffs, etc.
And that's exactly why my solution works so well.
 

Offline modrobert

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2015, 07:56:24 am »
Black like this? ;)

 

Offline Deathwish

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2015, 08:05:32 am »
Black like this? ;)



I'm up for that flag too. Those living in europe could post this one perhaps...... :-DD
Electrons are typically male, always looking for any hole to get into.
trying to strangle someone who talks out of their rectal cavity will fail, they can still breath.
God hates North Wales, he has put my home address on the blacklist of all couriers with instructions to divert all parcels.
 

Offline modrobert

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2015, 12:28:28 pm »
After reading the whole thread I can understand some of the concerns about showing the country flag, it's hard to be completely neutral and objective. Check this fictional example post I just made up.

Quote
I'm reverse engineering a piece of hardware that literally fell out of the sky and landed in my backyard using a logic analyzer, could use some help.


Now, what is the first thing that comes to mind after reading that request, potential associations those country flags could give (at least if you are easily indoctrinated by mainstream media outlets in the west).

















If you were able to help, would you feel equally inclined to do so regardless of the posters country? Really? :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 12:37:04 pm by modrobert »
 

Offline modrobert

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2015, 01:33:46 pm »
You're overthinking this issue. It flares up from time to time because people (usually new members) ask  a question and the answer would be better tailored if some idea of where they are was supplied. The forum software has, but until recently did not require new members fill out the country location. As it also doesn't require many other available bits of information that are not normally filled in either.

Dave provided a middle solution for those that for undisclosed personal reasons did not want to supply that detail. That was to use the black flag to at least show that the detail had not been ignored.

Dave IIRC did not want to force people to supply such details or at the very least he was sympathetic the individuals right to not supply it.

At the heart of this latest flare up is a fundamental intolerance of a vocal few who want to insist everyone conform to their idea of how things should be done.

I seriously don't think appeasing them is a progressive step forward.

The country detail is often not sufficient in itself anyway. It is a supreme irony that ones who bleat the loudest about this minor transgression of omitting locality context are also the ones who complain about how hard it makes their lives when trying to help the new member. And then proceed to not be helpful.

I agree about the middle solution.

Being an admin of a forum myself for the past 12 years, I can relate to these kind of problems.

A few years ago I added some php code which blocked any new threads posted with the text 'need help' or 'please help' in the "topic/subject" line (when string matched the user was instructed to change the subject line), it was a desperate attempt to force users into posting meaningful problem descriptions in a support forum, because "I need help" isn't really useful for someone who could potentially help when browsing the forum threads by subject title. Anyway, the strategy backfired and some users got really frustrated instead, so now they can type "I need help" as topic again.

I guess my point is that forcing the user by code (or otherwise) is rarely the right way.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 01:45:18 pm by modrobert »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2015, 02:31:12 pm »
IMO sharing any personal information on forums should never be mandatory.

I really fail to understand why a simple info tag wouldn’t suffice - That it might be a good idea to provide for what market/Country when i.e. asking for buying advice.

BTW, "Modify Forum Profile" information still reads:
Quote
You can change your personal information on this page. This information will be displayed throughout EEVblog Electronics Community Forum. If you aren't comfortable with sharing some information, simply skip it - nothing here is required.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2015, 02:42:20 pm »
At the heart of this latest flare up is a fundamental intolerance of a vocal few who want to insist everyone conform to their idea of how things should be done.

I seriously don't think appeasing them is a progressive step forward.
This.


Quote from: fungus
I think it's better to have a sticky 'Read this before asking what to buy!' post and have a boilerplate reply that says "Please read THIS then try asking that again...". You can copy/paste that reply in about three seconds.

Anybody caught NOT posting the boilerplate reply to an offending question can be publicly flamed and shamed. Three offenses should get you banned (because if you can't follow forum procedure then why should they???).
Seems a better way. Vocal few made grudgingly happy without affecting all 20,000 satisfied forum members.

You could maybe add a hint on the signup page where it asks for the country: "If you're just signing up to ask for buying advice then this is a good idea..."
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 02:52:38 pm by Fungus »
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2015, 03:41:39 pm »
As to the 'buying advice!!' problem: I think it's better to put in a big sticky 'read this before asking what to buy' post and have a boilerplate reply that says "Please read THIS and try asking that again..."

Anybody caught NOT posting the boilerplate reply to an offending question can be publicly flamed and shamed. Maybe three non-boilerplate replies could even get you banned from the forum. Problem solved.
Your proposed solution is itself abusive.  There are many ways of pointing out that one needs to know the O.P.'s location, or other details they have chosen not to disclose, to be able to give good or even valid answers to certain questions.  Its not just buying/selling topics that need the location. (e.g. anything involving AC power or broadcast timesignals)   Boilerplate replies aren't always appropriate.  As long as the reply asking for the missing information isn't inappropriately abusive, there's no need to start flaming anyone.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2015, 03:54:23 pm »
Members trying to dictate what other members should do - it rubs me the wrong way.
Go ahead and don't reply to posts without flags. But don't impose your rules on others.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2015, 08:31:32 pm »
Boilerplate replies aren't always appropriate.
Sure they are.

"You just asked a question that requires a location-specific answer but you didn't supply your location. If you still want a reply; please let people know where you live, what your mains voltage is, etc.

Thanks."

PS: This is covered in the forum's sticky (click here to view).

What situation would something like that not apply to? How would you modify it so that it does?

(Let's all collaborate on a standard reply...)



 

Offline Lightages

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2015, 10:37:59 pm »
Those who are accusing people like me, who are asking for the mandatory country indication, of intolerance are being overly defensive and are not considering the whole idea. The problem is when people ask specific questions that almost require location information and it is obvious they haven't even bothered to say where they can buy from.

It has been said over and over, nobody needs to put their real location if they are that concerned about revealing it. At least this way we know that the person has considered their location information and has made a conscious decision to set the flag. If the black flag is available then it can be used.

If the person has made an active decision to not indicate their correct location, that is fine. If they then post a question about what/how/where to buy something and then reject answers because it doesn't work where they live, then we can chastise them for not being clearer.

As it is now, the majority of the newbies posting come in and make no indication where they are or where they can buy and ask for advice on purchases. This wastes everyone's time and after the hundredth time people will either not respond or get nasty with them. This is not good for welcoming newcomers nor encouraging people to help.

That is my intent and point. The OP was not some narrow minded, intolerant, racist and elitist ego maniacal rant.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2015, 10:54:32 pm »
That is my intent and point. The OP was not some narrow minded, intolerant, racist and elitist ego maniacal rant.

I think that the criticism was more in the direction of being a  busybody.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2015, 11:08:43 pm »
OK, same statement applies. How trying to help people the best way when they ask for help is being a busy body.... :-//
 

Online tautech

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2015, 11:24:46 pm »
Those who are accusing people like me, who are asking for the mandatory country indication, of intolerance are being overly defensive and are not considering the whole idea. The problem is when people ask specific questions that almost require location information and it is obvious they haven't even bothered to say where they can buy from.

It has been said over and over, nobody needs to put their real location if they are that concerned about revealing it. At least this way we know that the person has considered their location information and has made a conscious decision to set the flag. If the black flag is available then it can be used.

If the person has made an active decision to not indicate their correct location, that is fine. If they then post a question about what/how/where to buy something and then reject answers because it doesn't work where they live, then we can chastise them for not being clearer.

As it is now, the majority of the newbies posting come in and make no indication where they are or where they can buy and ask for advice on purchases. This wastes everyone's time and after the hundredth time people will either not respond or get nasty with them. This is not good for welcoming newcomers nor encouraging people to help.

That is my intent and point. The OP was not some narrow minded, intolerant, racist and elitist ego maniacal rant.
+1
Many of us are here just to give their help/knowledge freely, more so than asking for it.
Others that need/want help should (you would think) attempt to assist us in our endeavours.
Hell, if we had access to IP's as Dave and Mods do we wouldn't need flags, there's enough tools on the web to ID where you are.

Call us know alls, I don't care, but without those of us that willingly attempt to assist others, what would this forum be?
Even though I now sell TE I hate to see old gear not being fixed, not all can afford new gear and when it's a straight forward fix why wouldn't I help?
We all started with old shitty gear, spent all our time keeping it going and learnt heaps on the way.  :-BROKE
I'm proud of that and happy to share what I can, just as others do too.


It's very refreshing to now see newbies with country flags, remember many of us are prepared to help locals at a personal level but somebody without a flag and/or location could be living 5km away from me and I'd never know.  |O
With a flag and location in my profile I get PM's from locals, including some from Aussie, seeking all sorts of advice.

/rant

I've made some good friends on EEVblog, it's a great place.  :-+
Thanks Dave.



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Offline Lightages

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2015, 11:26:52 pm »
That is my intent and point. The OP was not some narrow minded, intolerant, racist and elitist ego maniacal rant.

I think that the criticism was more in the direction of being a  busybody.

Quote
There is also the case of people living in some kind of "hated" countries. They maybe don't want to get bad reactions due to actions of some crazy, fanatic guys.

Quote
Our importance we over estimate, do we?
from zapta

Quote
The 'my way or the highway' approach, not by you, is inappropriate for such a diverse community.
from zapta

Quote
Plus I find that having a flag causes people to treat you differently, depending on their idea of the country in question.

Quote
At the heart of this latest flare up is a fundamental intolerance of a vocal few who want to insist everyone conform to their idea of how things should be done.

Quote
Members trying to dictate what other members should do - it rubs me the wrong way.
Go ahead and don't reply to posts without flags. But don't impose your rules on others.

Again, the problem is with people asking for advice and help that requires an answer based on location. If the user does not disclose his location, or does not indicate that he does not want his location known by setting a flag or black flag or whatever, he gets ignored, or wastes everyone's time. There is no requirement to disclose your location correctly as Dave has said. What is worse, wasting everyone's time with pointless responses, or chastising a brand new member for not being clearer with his first post, or ignoring them completely? All I was asking is to have the person indicate a location so people can answer them the best way and not waste everyone's time and/or not be pedantic with them every time.

 

Offline jancumps

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2015, 11:53:42 pm »
Leave the everyone out of the discussion please, because you're not talking for everyone here.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: A protest!
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2015, 12:15:29 am »
OK, same statement applies. How trying to help people the best way when they ask for help is being a busy body.... :-//

And I am trying to help you being a more tolerant and flexible person and you keep arguing with me. I care about you and know better so you should do what I say. It's for your own good.

Anyway, you got the point ...   ;-)
Drain the swamp.
 


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