Author Topic: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1  (Read 4730 times)

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Offline mancausoft

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2019, 08:32:58 pm »
Sidenote, I just watched a video where they unboxed a never-before opened pinball machine still sealed int he original shipping box, from 1993. For backup in the electronics there were 4x AA Panasonic cells. Not alkalines. Not only had they not leaked, they actually were STILL GOOD!

 In more than a few ways, it seems we've taken a step backwards when it comes to common removable batteries. There's even a fair percentage of DOA fresh out of the package and still not past the expiration date, not to mention the now almost guaranteed TO leak design.

I think is just a case, i see a lot of battery inside old computer, and the same brand/model of battery, similar age, but someone are leak other not leak at all... it's hard to judge with only a case

Offline floobydust

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2019, 08:55:34 pm »
We used to know how to make batteries that didn't leak - 1980's RadioShack's helishly expensive premium series of batteries were nearly bulletproof. I wish I still had a choice between cheap shit and spending a bit more for batteries that don't destroy my gear.

That's why mercury was added to batteries, it was a leakage protection barrier, but of course now it's banned.

That is what I was going to suggest but you beat me to it.  Before the tiny amount of mercury was removed from alkaline batteries, I do not remember them ever leaking.

Ahh so the added mercury stopped gas build-up.

"Gas can form in all of these [alkaline] batteries due to the corrosion of zinc.  Zinc in the battery gets corroded into the electrolyte as the battery is used. This corrosion can cause electrolysis and can cause the generation of hydrogen gas in the canister. Build-up of hydrogen gas can cause the battery to leak, limiting the ability of the battery to function.  Mercury suppresses this zinc corrosion, which is why it is added..."

I'd like to believe the mercury environmental bans made Duracell batteries crap, but other brands aren't leaking. I can still buy Dick Smith AA batteries, 12 year supply stockpiled... and years old already but not leaking lol.

You need a seal that can "burp" or permit gas to pass, but not electrolyte.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2019, 09:13:09 am »
I have seen a Duracell still in date and in its original packaging leak.  I now buy Ikea batteries in bulk ever time the wife drags me there, don't think I have seen a problem with them, including kids toys left up in the attic for years.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 09:16:53 pm »
I took apart a pissing leaking Energizer AAA. It uses the same basic seal design as the Duracell.
A plastic piston with bitumen ring = fail. Made in USA 12-2027 date.

The battery sparked and started getting hot with tiny smoke while I took it apart. It wasn't dead.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 05:10:10 pm »
Is this another way of saying "bring back the 9V battery and clip"?

9V batteries just contain 6 x AAAA alkaline batteries

Yes, but they have another enclosure around them all. This is why I often prefer 9V batteries in the Fluke 87's etc - less likely to leak within a reasonable time.

I do have a 189 and an 87IV, which of course use AA's, but I obsess about the battery terminals, and even spent $60.00 US on a spare set of terminals just in case.

Those models are battery hogs of course, and 9V batteries would not be appropriate for them.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2019, 05:21:14 pm »
Is this another way of saying "bring back the 9V battery and clip"?
9V batteries just contain 6 x AAAA alkaline batteries
Yes, but they have another enclosure around them all. This is why I often prefer 9V batteries in the Fluke 87's etc - less likely to leak within a reasonable time.

A 9v Battery snap is also really easy to replace.

I don't have a problem with 9V batteries in things that don't need replacement batteries very often.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:35:07 pm by Fungus »
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2019, 07:29:31 pm »
Sidenote, I just watched a video where they unboxed a never-before opened pinball machine still sealed int he original shipping box, from 1993. For backup in the electronics there were 4x AA Panasonic cells. Not alkalines. Not only had they not leaked, they actually were STILL GOOD!
Quite impressive. I've had some ancient equipment with batteries still mechanically whole, although in my case their charge was long gone.

If I recall correctly, the discharge is what increases internal pressure due to gas development inside the battery's chamber. 

In more than a few ways, it seems we've taken a step backwards when it comes to common removable batteries. There's even a fair percentage of DOA fresh out of the package and still not past the expiration date, not to mention the now almost guaranteed TO leak design.
I would say that we've taken a step backwards when it comes to overall quality.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Synthtech

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 08:30:02 pm »
I don’t allow those copper and black coloured Duracell batteries into my building.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2019, 01:51:05 am »
My solution to the increasing unreliability of manganese-alkaline cells is to use low discharge NiMH cells instead.  They can still leak but only from the vent but to a much lower extent; none of my Eneloops has leaked at all before wearing out.
 

Offline Barny

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2019, 06:13:50 am »
Are there first results from the testing?
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2019, 06:33:49 am »
My solution to the increasing unreliability of manganese-alkaline cells is to use low discharge NiMH cells instead.  They can still leak but only from the vent but to a much lower extent; none of my Eneloops has leaked at all before wearing out.

Same here. Eneloop and I have some of the Amazon Basics ones, the made in Japan variety. I've been using Eneloop since shortly after they appeared on the market and I've never had one leak. Even for rather low drain applications I view it as cheap insurance, no reason to buy disposable batteries anymore.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2019, 12:59:04 pm »
Are there first results from the testing?

It's only been 3 months.  I wouldn't expect to see anything yet.  But it would be really bad if there was something to report.


Dave.... any surprises as yet - or are things looking unchanged?
 

Offline GromBeestje

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2019, 06:13:58 pm »
It has been a while indeed. I was wondering if the flooding of the office interfered with the experiment.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2019, 11:49:42 pm »
Are there first results from the testing?
It's only been 3 months.  I wouldn't expect to see anything yet.  But it would be really bad if there was something to report.
Dave.... any surprises as yet - or are things looking unchanged?

Nothing to report.
I suspect that the discharge rate was too high, should had lowered it drastically.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2019, 12:13:51 am »
You have to leave the test setup undisturbed. Any physical  movement or variation in power drain rate will prevent leakage. All batteries I have ever had leak have been sitting undisturbed and any device unused. A control group in regular use have never leaked.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2019, 12:21:42 am »
Many of the leaking alkaline cells I have encountered leaked at the bottom of the outer shell which has nothing to do with the seal at the positive end.
I think I read somewhere that alkaline cells are opposite polarity to carbon zinc ones. That is, alkalines have the outer case positive and the centre rod negative. The entire cell is inverted in the outer wrapper with a bump on its “base” at the top and the rod terminated at the bottom where the seal is. That would explain it leaking at the bottom.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2019, 12:29:36 am »
You have to leave the test setup undisturbed. Any physical  movement or variation in power drain rate will prevent leakage. All batteries I have ever had leak have been sitting undisturbed and any device unused. A control group in regular use have never leaked.

That's what I've done.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2019, 05:08:21 am »
I wonder if the position they sit in has an effect on leakage rates?

I'm not sure I buy the necessity to leave them undisturbed, I mean it's good for keeping the test consistent however I think the leakage statistics are skewed by the fact that a seldom used device can sit there until the batteries start leaking unnoticed while something you are using regularly is probably going to have the batteries changed on a more regular basis too.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing - Part 1
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2019, 06:15:56 am »
I wonder if the position they sit in has an effect on leakage rates?

I'm not sure I buy the necessity to leave them undisturbed, I mean it's good for keeping the test consistent however I think the leakage statistics are skewed by the fact that a seldom used device can sit there until the batteries start leaking unnoticed while something you are using regularly is probably going to have the batteries changed on a more regular basis too.

I think that is what I was trying to say. Not quite facetious but almost.
 


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