Author Topic: Australian Analog TV Switch Off  (Read 21925 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 08:26:30 pm »
When they switched over in my area a few years back for a few months after they repeatedly played a government sponsored video  on the old analog channels about why there are no TV shows on any more and it talked about how great digital TV was and how to get a discounted box using a coupon from the government.

The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Gromitt

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Country: se
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2013, 09:53:43 pm »
In Sweden they switched off the last analogue transmitter in 2007, you can still watch analogue TV on cable thou.

/stefan
 

Offline kbhasi

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: 00
    • YouTube
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2013, 10:32:23 pm »
I believe Perth, WA already had their digital TV switched off some time in 2010 or 2011.

Singapore, on the other hand, will switch off analog by 2020 or so I heard, also less than half of all the channels are available on digital currently.

When you were mentioning networks like the ABC, I had this crazy idea where you would somehow end up on ABC3's Studio 3 for the wrong reasons, or you would end up assisting in a Prank Patrol(another great ABC3 show) prank. When I go for my big break here in Australia, the TV channel I watch most of the time is ABC3. Yes I do also watch channels like 7, 9, 10 and SBS 1 and 2.
 

Offline dave_k

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 01:38:51 am »
Spec an just after switch off....
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5152
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 02:01:24 am »
The transmitters will probably stay in service for the digital services, as they still need a few kW at the transmitter antenna.

Nop, if I see it right, Australia moved from PAL to DVB-T. There nothing fits. Power transmitters, control transmitters, test systems, monitors, signal even antennas, etc. all has to go. If Australia is similar to other parts of the world they should have plenty of hight-power transmitter equipment on the surplus market, and a lot of obscure analog signal monitoring and test equipment, too.

Actually, there is more in common with DVB-T transmitters and old analogue transmitters than you might think. The first generation of DVB-T transmitters used in Australian capital cities was based on a modified analogue solid-state transmitter. The power amplifiers are operated as class AB instead of C, and the exciter/modulator is different, but then everything after that is pretty much the same.

I have a before and after screenshot of the spectrum, and a screenshot of SBS-7 turning on... will post tomorrow.

None of the later generations of analog TV Transmitters in Australia operated in Class C,as they were all low level modulated at IF frequencies.
Vis IF was 38.9MHz,& Sound IF(s) at 33.4MHz & 33.15MHz approx.(Stereo).

The signal was then up converted to the required Channel,( note frequency inversion) so linear amplification was required.
The very early Transmitters used high level modulation,so could operate the PA in class C.

As digital & analog operated in parallel for many years,it is doubtful if any analog Tx were modified  to digital by the TV Networks (or their surrogates).

The first digital TV  Tx I saw was very different to the analog units in service at that time.
The weirdest thing to me was water cooling,which to me was an archaic way of doing things.
Strangely,it wasn't made by NEC or any of the other popular brands of the time.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:03:27 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2013, 03:31:22 am »
In Sweden they switched off the last analogue transmitter in 2007, you can still watch analogue TV on cable thou.

/stefan

The cable companies here capitalized on that and ran lots of commercials about there was no need to worry about digital tv converters or analog switch off, just keep using your cable box and you'll be ok.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2013, 06:20:20 am »
Actually, there is more in common with DVB-T transmitters and old analogue transmitters than you might think. The first generation of DVB-T transmitters used in Australian capital cities was based on a modified analogue solid-state transmitter.

First generation you say? Yes, that's how they started here, too. "Oh, we can reuse that analog stuff. Even with reduced power. It'll all work out." And then reality did hit them. The power turned out not to be enough in many cases. Bandwidth and linearity problems, although the channel bandwidth was supposed to be the same as analog. And then they switched antenna polarization at many sites in an attempt to reduce issues with cell phone usage. And they had synchronization problems keeping the single frequency network in phase. And someone decided to rearrange frequencies. In the end the old stuff went out the door, to join the surplus from the transmitters they completely dismantled. 1/20 of all transmitters were kept.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline Terabyte2007

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 527
  • Country: us
  • It is purpose that created us... That defines us..
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2013, 09:48:05 pm »
Very cool, those analog signals will live on in the far reaches of space. Maybe some alien race will receive them and decode them and send them back to us at a later date!  ;D
Eric Haney, MCSE, EE, DMC-D
Electronics Designer, Prototype Builder
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5152
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 02:27:45 am »
Actually, there is more in common with DVB-T transmitters and old analogue transmitters than you might think. The first generation of DVB-T transmitters used in Australian capital cities was based on a modified analogue solid-state transmitter.

First generation you say? Yes, that's how they started here, too. "Oh, we can reuse that analog stuff. Even with reduced power. It'll all work out." And then reality did hit them. The power turned out not to be enough in many cases. Bandwidth and linearity problems, although the channel bandwidth was supposed to be the same as analog. And then they switched antenna polarization at many sites in an attempt to reduce issues with cell phone usage. And they had synchronization problems keeping the single frequency network in phase. And someone decided to rearrange frequencies. In the end the old stuff went out the door, to join the surplus from the transmitters they completely dismantled. 1/20 of all transmitters were kept.

Didn't happen in Oz!

The "first generation" may have been modified analog,although I doubt it,but if so, they were modified by the manufacturer a long time before they got to the final users.

The existing Analog transmitters were needed to maintain that service until it was terminated.
As I remarked earlier,the first digital TV Transmitter I saw used very different design techniques to that of the existing Transmitters.
 

Offline dave_k

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 03:24:13 am »
You're correct - they were modified by the manufacturer, which was Thales/Thomcast.
 

Offline MonitorMonitorMonitor

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 12:35:10 pm »
Hi all

As far as I know, only CH7 have been doing farewells as part of their switch off. The Sydney one (the end of which is in Dave's video) can be seen here

I also loved the short Brisbane one (my hometown) that they did for our switch off earlier this year, available at  

I think it's great to see a bit of a farewell as part of the analog TV shutdown! :)

Cheers
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:38:24 pm by MonitorMonitorMonitor »
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15309
  • Country: za
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 08:10:51 pm »
I remember reading about the UK switching off the 405 line transmitters recently, they estimated there were probably about a hundred viewers still watching it on equally ancient TV sets. Now you only get 405 lines as part of scan converters used by those who restore those older valve and early transistor sets.

Analogue TV reception is easy, you do not need IC's at all, just about 50 simple transistors and about the same number of assorted diodes, most used as amplifiers and oscillators.  To do the same with digital Tv is simply not possible.
 

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2013, 03:25:26 am »
Hi all

As far as I know, only CH7 have been doing farewells as part of their switch off. The Sydney one (the end of which is in Dave's video) can be seen here

I also loved the short Brisbane one (my hometown) that they did for our switch off earlier this year, available at
I think it's great to see a bit of a farewell as part of the analog TV shutdown! :)

Cheers

I like the "This is television 7!" with the older style musical jingles.

If I had a TV station I'd go out of my way to make jingles that sound like that.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2013, 03:26:25 am »
Pam and Jam productions out of Dallas make the vast majority of musical jingles for the US.


http://www.jingles.com/

http://www.pams.com/listen.html

Anyone from Dallas will certainly remember these:
http://www.jingles.com/audio/d_TouchOfChristmas.mp3

http://www.jingles.com/jam/radioids/demodl.php?fmt=0&pkgsearch=&stasearch=kvil
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 03:38:24 am by Stonent »
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Frantone

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Country: us
  • Geek Girl Makes Stuff!
    • Frantone Electronics
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2013, 04:38:21 pm »
Nice video Dave.   I particularly like how they did the ending, that vintage sign off animation (I assume it was genuine old time not a parody?)  but also how the feed ended by reducing to a fading dot.  How many people would get that?  Like the smell of a mimeograph right off the ditto machine or the feel of a Selectric keyboard, or refilling a Parker 51.   Philo Farnsworth's tube has gone the way of the ages.  Goodbye, magical moving images by way of radio broadcast.

 

Offline reubot

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2013, 11:58:51 am »

« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 12:03:39 pm by reubot »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30603
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2013, 12:23:28 pm »
I particularly like how they did the ending, that vintage sign off animation (I assume it was genuine old time not a parody?)

Almost certainly a new creation, the significance of putting the baby kangaroo (analog) to sleep, the breaking down of the ATN 7 logo to create the bed, and the goodbye at the end, it's all pretty obvious analog is being "put to sleep".
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5152
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2013, 01:24:41 pm »
Nice interpretation,Dave,but it is an old one,-------------I remember seeing it years ago.

Remember,TV Stations used to close around midnight,hence the baby 'Roo put to bed, & "Goodnight"!
 

Offline ciccio

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 634
  • Country: it
  • Designing analog audio since 1977
    • Oberon Electrophysics
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2013, 01:36:38 pm »
Italy switched off some years ago. It was a long process, with some coexistence of the two signals, but the problems were never fully solved.
There were some political reasons (in those years government and TV where the same person) that dictated for a faster switch, even without an exact monitoring of the "on the field" situation.

Many homes in small valleys were served by "pirate" repeaters, built over the years, and nobody had an exact number of them, so now they are not reached  by the DTV signal. The solution was to offer them a low cost satellite dish + receiver kit, and rebroadcast all DTV signal form satellite.

I have some receiver boxes (I bough one with money from the government), but they never worked as expected.
New TVs with integrated receivers work better, but a government regulation do not allow to rearrange channel order, so I have to scroll through tens of channels I'll never watch to reach the few I prefer.

A big problem was with radio microphones and In Ear Monitor receivers: the used frequencies located between two TV channels,  and now there is no more free spectrum.
If you happen to be near a DTV transmitter, you cannot use your equipment. this was a disgrace for touring shows and OB vehicles. 

Best regards

Ciccio

Strenua Nos Exercet Inertia
 

Offline electronics man

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 686
  • Country: gb
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2013, 09:31:25 pm »
Australia is well behind the times here in the uk our analog was turned of last yeah and the first TV was broadcast (from alexandra palace) in about 1937. we got colour TV in the 60s.
follow me on twitter @get_your_byte
 

Offline dave_k

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: au
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2013, 08:42:07 am »
I particularly like how they did the ending, that vintage sign off animation (I assume it was genuine old time not a parody?)

Almost certainly a new creation, the significance of putting the baby kangaroo (analog) to sleep, the breaking down of the ATN 7 logo to create the bed, and the goodbye at the end, it's all pretty obvious analog is being "put to sleep".

 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3615
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2013, 09:18:01 pm »
Somehow I found this article and video related to this thread.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline ConnorGames

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2013, 05:44:45 pm »
I have never been able to find a photo, let alone a video tour, of any solid-state TV transmitters. I bet a solid state PA of the power needed for broadcast is an absolute work of art! Does anyone know of an photos or videos of somewhat modern TV transmission equipment?
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2013, 06:48:47 pm »
I have never been able to find a photo, let alone a video tour, of any solid-state TV transmitters. I bet a solid state PA of the power needed for broadcast is an absolute work of art! Does anyone know of an photos or videos of somewhat modern TV transmission equipment?

From the outside, not much to see http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/en/products/broadcasting/tv-transmitters/pg_overview_63702.html
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3555
  • Country: gb
  • Electron Fiddler, FPGA Hacker, Embedded Systems EE
Re: Australian Analog TV Switch Off
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2013, 07:42:11 pm »
Analogue TV reception is easy, you do not need IC's at all, just about 50 simple transistors and about the same number of assorted diodes, most used as amplifiers and oscillators.  To do the same with digital Tv is simply not possible.

I don't see why this is a problem. You can't build a modern broadband modem with individual transistors, so why limit ourselves to simple analog TV?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf