Author Topic: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes  (Read 17308 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ferroto

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 287
  • Country: ca
That setup was pretty damn impressive. I'm a bit of a photography nut and Canon fanboy myself.

I'm considering getting one of these http://www.adorama.com/ICADRT2I.html I've used SLR's from Canon before but this is the first digital SLR I've considered buying. Canon has used the same lens system since 1987, so I can reuse all my old lenses.

Can't wait to see the documentary.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 08:42:52 pm »
what this got to do with electronics? the art/state of electronics? heck no! this is camera/videography we talking about. or..... equipments poison! i'd rather call this the art of electronics:


that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video... try to handheld it and take some videos and see whats the outcome. but i dont say he cant do, time and era is changing. light is the main secret here, not that state of electronics 5D Mk2.

ferroto: go canon!
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2010, 09:25:03 pm »
what the hell are you on about ?

SLR's never used to even have filming functionalities, now that an electronic shutter can be incorporrated into an image sensor without noise increase and despite the fact that the camera has a mechanical shutter still and video camera's will inevitable merge, and why not !
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2010, 09:34:27 pm »
that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video... try to handheld it and take some videos and see whats the outcome. but i dont say he cant do, time and era is changing. light is the main secret here, not that state of electronics 5D Mk2.
Try to find a video camera with a 36x24mm sensor for $3k
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2010, 09:43:37 pm »
SKR quality film, well thats something I won't turn down, although as the chip heats up it will get noisier, thats why point and shoot camera's are crap because the run the sendor all the time having no optical view finder
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline flolic

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 323
  • Country: hr
    • http://filiplolic.com/
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2010, 09:46:39 pm »
My friend shoot this music video with his Canon 5D MkII camera:
That is GREAT camera for making HD videos and I really miss video feature on older DSLR cameras... (I have 'old' Canon 5D)...
 

Offline baljemmett

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
  • Country: gb
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 09:49:06 pm »
that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video...

The times, they are a-changing; the season finale of House was shot entirely on the 5D Mk II, so I guess at least some of the professionals are quite happy to use a DSLR for real video work now!
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 10:58:30 pm »
that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video...

The times, they are a-changing; the season finale of House was shot entirely on the 5D Mk II, so I guess at least some of the professionals are quite happy to use a DSLR for real video work now!

Yes indeed.
The film industry is going nuts over the 5D MkII.
It really is possible to shoot a feature movie with one of these.

Check out Karl's work on the Canon & HP TV ads, very impressive stuff indeed:
http://www.karlvonmoller.com/blog/

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2010, 11:21:02 pm »
Try to find a video camera with a 36x24mm sensor for $3k
so what? my xl1s is 1/3" sensor 270K pixels capable of 720x480 vidz, and that $3k sensor is 22MPixels. if the guy is really into the state of EE, why dont he finds a way to create a 5616x3744 vidz. then thats art, thats state! if i want to do a HD documentary, i can as well use the $1K sony or canon camcorder.

surely they can put that FF sensor on a shoulder mount digital betacam and put the price to millions, but NO! for now, its just in your dream, they are not going to do that... why? because they are sucks and the engineers up there are doing nothing but licking their management dickhead!

now ok people. CALM DOWN! i'm not pushing anything, just my opinion OK? RELAX! COOL! Enjoy the Show. If you are happy about it, go for it! Cheers! ;)
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2010, 11:29:55 pm »
what this got to do with electronics? the art/state of electronics? heck no! this is camera/videography we talking about. or..... equipments poison! i'd rather call this the art of electronics:


that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video...

Karl is a professional videoographer. Seen than Canon ads on TV, Karl is the one who directed and shot them!

What has this got to do with electronics? The documentary IS about the electronics industry, and I thought some people might like to see some behind the scenes footage about the rig used to shoot it.

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2010, 11:36:55 pm »
Yes indeed...
Check out Karl's work on the Canon & HP TV ads, very impressive stuff indeed:
http://www.karlvonmoller.com/blog/
impressive indeed! i'm not questioning his skills in photography or videography. his skills is well above mine. but 1st, he intrudes into EEVBlog (with Dave's permission of course!) and showing his super duper gears (price included, well again, Dave's asking)... ok, thats still ok, totally find. but what i dont really agree is that his word of "state of electronics". heck, the real electronics could have achieve more than that!

if that video comes out in Photog/Vids forum without including the "electronics" word... then i will be  :o
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline flolic

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 323
  • Country: hr
    • http://filiplolic.com/
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2010, 11:41:04 pm »
so what? my xl1s is 1/3" sensor 270K pixels capable of 720x480 vidz, and that $3k sensor is 22MPixels. if the guy is really into the state of EE, why dont he finds a way to create a 5616x3744 vidz. then thats art, thats state! if i want to do a HD documentary, i can as well use the $1K sony or canon camcorder.

It's not about resolution but about chip size! As a photographer you should know about DOF and other photographic effects which are nearly impossible to achieve with that small 1/3" (or similar) camcorder sensors.
 

Offline RayJones

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 490
    • Personal Website
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2010, 11:41:18 pm »
Dave, you've got some work to catch with Karl's skills  ;)

Just viewed his Beekeeper vid from his blog - great stuff. "We've got the mod cons - we have electricity down the back" LOL.

As for his video bit at the end of you own Vblog it felt a bit dark, but perhaps I'm used to your own videos which light up well in the background.
But then again I suppose he is better at centering the audience's focus on the main subject, and the lighting achieves that by "blurring" the background "noise"
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2010, 11:49:25 pm »
Karl is a professional videoographer. Seen than Canon ads on TV, Karl is the one who directed and shot them!
is he using the 5D during the shooting? he is a professional videographer for christ sake! he should have a XL H1A or something.
well ok, maybe i've unintentionally accused him as a "super nuts" well, i'm sorry, i take my word back. he is not a "super nuts" he is a professional.
but.. maaaaybee, he is resembling the act of other "super nuts" and "equipments maniacs" out there, just in more professional way of presentation....
is that ok? is that right? correct me if i'm wrong ok?
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2010, 11:53:35 pm »
It's not about resolution but about chip size! As a photographer you should know about DOF and other photographic effects which are nearly impossible to achieve with that small 1/3" (or similar) camcorder sensors.
i think u have a misunderstanding there... DOF/bokeh/perpective effect are the function of lens aperture and focal length only. the function of chip size will equates to noise level, dynamic range, resolution.... and crop factor i think. ;)
my XL1S is an old a third inch sensor, but trust me! $1K or even larger sensor "handycam" cannot achieve the effect that it can get.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 12:11:58 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2010, 12:00:47 am »
As for his video bit at the end of you own Vblog it felt a bit dark, but perhaps I'm used to your own videos which light up well in the background.
But then again I suppose he is better at centering the audience's focus on the main subject, and the lighting achieves that by "blurring" the background "noise"
thats the art of photography! (and i said, not the art of electronics). dont worry! u'll get used to it.
photographers hate crowded and "sharp" background, such as....... bunch of multimeters.... osciloscopes... etc ;).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 12:02:39 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2010, 12:19:14 am »
and to cool you people down... yea! i have to agree, he got the top of the line gears. even for the mere lens hood is... what again? thousand? :o
thats the state of management!... oppppps... SORRY! not again!
anyway, why the video doesnt have the download link? >:(
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 12:21:37 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline flolic

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 323
  • Country: hr
    • http://filiplolic.com/
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2010, 12:22:38 am »

i think u have a misunderstanding there... DOF/bokeh/perpective effect are the function of lens aperture and focal length only.

Yes, you are totally right on that ;)
But show me the lens for that small format sensor that can give cinematic like DOF and bokeh as Canon's 70-200 f2.8 L? Or 135mm f2 L? Or go as wide as Sigma 12-24mm lens on FF 5D body?
About noise you mentioned, 5D MkII is so free of noise in low light video that I still can't believe it's possible...
 

Offline RayJones

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 490
    • Personal Website
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2010, 12:25:26 am »
Shafri,

I think you are getting a bit too carried away with this particular blog episode.

It was obvious to me that Dave knows Karl through some prior association, and by the by Karl offered to show Dave his gear, and have a play in Dave's shed/lab.

Karl is FILMING, as another project, the Art of Electronics. This Vblog was not about the art of electronics.

At the end of the day, it came across to me as a pair of mates sharing their wares in Dave's shed. Not all that different to Dave visiting his mate and blowing up DMMs with unrealistic voltages.


 

alm

  • Guest
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 am »
i think u have a misunderstanding there... DOF/bokeh/perpective effect are the function of lens aperture and focal length only. the function of chip size will equates to noise level, resolution.... and crop factor i think. ;)
my XL1S is an old a third inch sensor, but trust me! $1K or even larger sensor "handycam" cannot achieve the effect that it can get.
Perspective is only a function of the subject distance, so the sensor doesn't matter. Bokeh is mainly a function of the lens. But DOF does depend on sensor size. The DOF is a function of the subject distance, focal length, a few lens parameters like pupil magnification and exit pupil diameter, and the circle of confusion. The circle of confusion is the largest blur spot on the sensor/film that the eye considers sharp from the viewing distance. For printed images, people often use something like the sensor diagonal / 1500 (actual value depends on enlargement, viewing distance, human vision). The sensor diagonal obviously depends on the sensor size. The DOF of a camera with a 43mm diagonal (36x24mm) is the same as the DOF of a 1/3rd inch sensor (7.21mm diagonal according to Wikipedia) with the aperture value about six times lower (for symmetrical lenses or subject distance >> focal length). So the 5DII at f/16 has the same DOF as your XL1S at f/2.8.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2010, 12:53:38 am »
Dave, you've got some work to catch with Karl's skills  ;)

I don't dare even try!

Quote
As for his video bit at the end of you own Vblog it felt a bit dark, but perhaps I'm used to your own videos which light up well in the background.
But then again I suppose he is better at centering the audience's focus on the main subject, and the lighting achieves that by "blurring" the background "noise"

Correct. The darkness and highlighting of the main subject was deliberate.
Also, the test video (and sound) has not been corrected in any way, Karl said there is a lot of editing work left to do in terms to tweaking the image to match what he wants and integrate it with the other footage from the other interviews.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2010, 01:00:39 am »
Shafri,

I think you are getting a bit too carried away with this particular blog episode.

It was obvious to me that Dave knows Karl through some prior association, and by the by Karl offered to show Dave his gear, and have a play in Dave's shed/lab.

Karl is FILMING, as another project, the Art of Electronics. This Vblog was not about the art of electronics.

At the end of the day, it came across to me as a pair of mates sharing their wares in Dave's shed. Not all that different to Dave visiting his mate and blowing up DMMs with unrealistic voltages.

Karl has actually been watching the blog for a long time. He is shooting this documentary about the Australian electronics industry and wanted to include me as one of the interviewee's.
He was kind enough to explain and let me show off the gear he was using to the EEVblog audience.
He will also kindly let me upload the final documentary to show everyone.

Shafri (being a pro photographer?) might find using a 5D MK2 for video a bit offensive, but there is no mistaking that it is taking the world of video by storm. Some very high end productions are being shot with it, and that's a fact.

BTW, it also uses the 3rd party firmware tweaked for manual video control etc.

Dave.
 

Offline Time

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 725
  • Country: us
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2010, 01:10:55 am »
Can you let us know whats going on with this so we might be able to watch it?

He is shooting this documentary about the Australian electronics industry and wanted to include me as one of the interviewee's.
-Time
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 am »
But show me the lens for that small format sensor that can give cinematic like DOF and bokeh as Canon's 70-200 f2.8 L? Or 135mm f2 L? Or go as wide as Sigma 12-24mm lens on FF 5D body?
yea yea you are right, there is no video lens option for f1.2L AFAIK, gotta to associate with Steven Spielberg on that. but.... yea, put it on! put the 70-200 f2.8L on the 5D2 and try to make the shooting, it will be more fun for the handheld type of video. dont tell me about image stabilization feature, i know that. but.. i dont know, never tried that, maybe you did ???

Perspective is only a function of the subject distance, so the sensor doesn't matter...
you are right! but i only give you 66.666% mark for that 2 points. the exact answer should be:
Perspective is only a function of the subject distance and focal length, so the sensor doesn't matter. = 100% mark answer

Bokeh is mainly a function of the lens.
80% mark... 100% = Bokeh is mainly a function of the lens aperture.

But DOF does depend on sensor size. The DOF is a function of the subject distance, focal length, a few lens parameters like
pupil magnification and exit pupil diameter, and the circle of confusion
. The circle of confusion is the largest blur spot on the sensor/film that the eye considers sharp
from the viewing distance.
0% mark... why? you copy-pasted other people's work!
i probably give you some mark if you wrote...
DOF does depend on distance between sensor plane to the focal point.

let me tell you a secret, that nobody on earth do care to put it on the internet. COC is a subjective matter, it varies with each different observer, trust me, it cannot be counted in the engineering equation. just like colors or your favourite food.
thats why you cannot see a value to the exact COC anywhere. canon, nikon, sony, etc etc camera makers got their own value to the COC specification.
but pixel pitch and size does affect COC and its observer, but again... not the sensor size, its the size of a single photodetector on the sensor, there are twenty two millions of it.

man! do i have to read all those theoritical? i'm a postgraduate pal! reading is not my type anymore! photography?! i'm tired already! plsss! not the 1/a=1/b+1/c?!

For printed images, people often use something like the sensor diagonal / 1500 (actual value depends on enlargement, viewing distance, human vision).
The sensor diagonal obviously depends on the sensor size.
yup yup! PRINTING! it has to do with resolution! thats why sensor size (pixel count actually) comes into equation/discussion. if you talk about resolution, then yes... 1/3" sensor lose!

The DOF of a camera with a 43mm diagonal (36x24mm) is the same as the DOF of a 1/3rd inch sensor (7.21mm diagonal according
to Wikipedia) with the aperture value about six times lower (for symmetrical lenses or subject distance >> focal length). So the 5DII at f/16 has the same DOF as your XL1S at f/2.8.
man! i dont understand what you are talking about! are you saying that when i put a 50mm f1.2L @f8 on the 5D2, the image will be similar effect to the same lens @f1.2 on the EOS 350D? (the smallest DSLR sensor)?

Karl is FILMING, as another project, the Art of Electronics. This Vblog was not about the art of electronics.
WHAT! my mother's most miserable nightmare! i thought this is the only one! and i thought the Karl guy is talking electronic about his equipment! i'm skrewed!
maybe i just a kicked out photography school student, not the tools and equipments school. and later i comes into the electronics school and swear by it. ???

Shafri (being a pro photographer?) might find using a 5D MK2 for video a bit offensive, but there is no mistaking that it is taking the world of video by storm. Some very high end productions are being shot with it, and that's a fact.
i'm not a professional photographer, i'm a part timer and landscape hobbiest photographer. i'm a professional teacher! if you go to the real photog and videog community (i mean the real! not the wannabe!) it will be offensive to use a camera to catch video, much more offensive to videographers. some debates out there!
but for me as a generalist, i dont really care, and really... thats not the main point.

but from positive side... yes! this 5D2 is a winner, an option for a cheaper video equipment that can capture superb quality n resolution. it just simply cannot do all the real video equipment capable of doing.
the real video "monster" is simply unaffordable!

man, do i have to reply all those? stop it plssss. lets talk electronics!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 01:51:07 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2010, 02:49:40 am »
i'm not a professional photographer, i'm a part timer and landscape hobbiest photographer. i'm a professional teacher! if you go to the real photog and videog community (i mean the real! not the wannabe!) it will be offensive to use a camera to catch video, much more offensive to videographers. some debates out there!

Really?
So the director that shot the final episode of House on a 5D MkII would be laughed at?

George Lucas & Quentin Tarantino seem quite impressed by the sounds of it:
http://hddslreader.com/2010/04/20/canon-5d-mark-ii-at-skywalker-ranch/
http://philipbloom.net/2009/12/12/skywalker/
See the film:
http://vimeo.com/groups/canon5dmark2/videos/8100091

I think you'd be very surprised at how seriously people are taking the capabilities of this camera for video.

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2010, 02:58:56 am »
So the director that shot the final episode of House on a 5D MkII would be laughed at?
by some fanboys maybe, but certainly not me, and i dont think they are supposed to. in the end, the final products that matters. its not the tools that make wonders, its the muscle and brain thats behind it.
u give me that 5D2? i will shoot crappy vidz, just the same as always.
all i'm saying is that... do you think that if you say "the 5D2 is the video everything!" to the guys with a XL1HA on his shoulder, he would be agree with you?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 03:04:45 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2010, 03:09:58 am »
its the same if i say my Uni-T UT71A DMM is everything that everyone should owns, it gives very precise reading, bla bla bla. whats with you and your Fluke 87-V?
well.... just speculating their felling... whats with me? i dont own them.
but as i said, the tools doesnt matter.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2010, 03:16:51 am »
and one more thing... the camera is not the only thing that you see, its just a small part, there a lot more behind the scene that makes the audience scream at the video, a lot lot more that cant be seen even if you find it to the wormhole, its in the brain of the maker. but in the end, the tools got the name and fame.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2010, 03:32:02 am »
i only copy pasted others people work, its up to you to do the translation...

http://hddslreader.com/2010/04/20/canon-5d-mark-ii-at-skywalker-ranch/
For a filmmaker with true cinematic aspirations, the end product must be technically capable of being screened according to Hollywood’s exacting standards. Apparently, if Blooms test is an indication, the Canon 5D Mark II is up to the challenge
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2010, 06:26:17 am »
you are right! but i only give you 66.666% mark for that 2 points. the exact answer should be:
Perspective is only a function of the subject distance and focal length, so the sensor doesn't matter. = 100% mark answer
I disagree. Perspective is the relation between distance and relative size (that objects farther away are smaller, and by how much), which purely depends on the subject distance. The angle of view (which depends on focal length and sensor size) determines the crop, but you can get exactly the same perspective by cropping later, this doesn't change the perspective. You can correct the smaller angle of view of a smaller sensor by choosing a shorter focal length, which will yield the same perspective and crop, only the DOF will be different.

80% mark... 100% = Bokeh is mainly a function of the lens aperture.
The shape is determined by the iris, but the other attributes like how well defined the aperture shape is and if the edges are obvious depends on the under- or overcorrection of spherical aberrations, which is determined by the lens design (and setting of the defocus control ring on the few lenses that have one).

let me tell you a secret, that nobody on earth do care to put it on the internet. COC is a subjective matter, it varies with each different observer, trust me, it cannot be counted in the engineering equation. just like colors or your favourite food.
This statement is not relevant to the discussion. Whatever criterion you choose, it will scale proportionally with sensor size. If you view on a 24" screen, the image from the 1/3rd inch sensor has been enlarged much more to make it that large (in mm, not in pixels). So the CoC is also enlarged, which means the CoC on the sensor must be smaller to compensate.

yup yup! PRINTING! it has to do with resolution! thats why sensor size (pixel count actually) comes into equation/discussion. if you talk about resolution, then yes... 1/3" sensor lose!
Sure, the resolution provides a lower bound, no point in choosing a CoC that's lower than the resolution of either the sensor or the output device (times scaling). But I'm not at all talking about pixel count, for my example, you could just assume both sensors are 1080p, everything except the sensor size (and derived values like focal length, for the same angle of view) can be identical. Actually, for the simple DOF equation, you assume pixel size << CoC, and when viewing (on a screen or on paper), your eyes should be unable to see individual pixels, otherwise the resolution was way too low, or you're too close (which is why CoC assumes a certain viewing distance). So as long as the CoC is much larger than the pixel pitch, the pixel pitch doesn't matter, and you could just as well assume a constant pixel pitch.

man! i dont understand what you are talking about! are you saying that when i put a 50mm f1.2L @f8 on the 5D2, the image will be similar effect to the same lens @f1.2 on the EOS 350D? (the smallest DSLR sensor)?
I'm saying that you can compensate for the deeper DOF on smaller sensors by using a proportionally larger aperture and proportionally shorter focal length (to compensate for angle of view). The 350D sensor is 1.6x smaller, so the lens should be 1.6x shorter for the same angle of view (~30mm), and the aperture should be a factor 1.6 larger (f/2 on the 5D would be equivalent to f/1.2 on the 350D). This can be derived from the DOF equation, for the simplified case for a symmetrical lens (probably not a bad approximation for a 50mm lens), the hyperfocal distance h=f2/NC, with N the f-number and C the CoC. The near and far limits are a function of h, the subject distance v and v - f. Assuming v >> f (usually true except for macro), we can approximate v - f with v, and the sensor size/aperture/focal length only changes h. If you change the sensor a factor x, both f and C will change (see above), but h must stay the same (same DOF). So f02/N0C0 = f12/N1C1 = (x*f0)2 / N1(x*C0) => N1 = x * N0. If you do it the hard way without my assumptions of a symmetrical lens and v >> f, the change in N will be slightly different than x. You can argue about that exact value, I'm not going to claim that it's exactly 1.600 or something like that, but it's clearly not 1, so the sensor size does have an effect, since you've effectively gotten extra lower stops (f/1.2 on 350D is now f/2.0, so I can go two stops lower than before, and lose two stops on the other end). This is why large format photographers use these extreme aperture's like f/64 to get enough DOF.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2010, 07:12:50 am »
It's not about resolution but about chip size! As a photographer you should know about DOF and other photographic effects which are nearly impossible to achieve with that small 1/3" (or similar) camcorder sensors.
i think u have a misunderstanding there... DOF/bokeh/perpective effect are the function of lens aperture and focal length only. the function of chip size will equates to noise level, dynamic range, resolution.... and crop factor i think. ;)
my XL1S is an old a third inch sensor, but trust me! $1K or even larger sensor "handycam" cannot achieve the effect that it can get.


yes and the smaller the sensor chip the shorter the lens must be to achive the same angle of view, my first cmaera really had a 6.2-66mm lens because the sensor was so small and it was equivalent to a 28-300 film camera. Now I have a DSLR with an APS sensor I can use proper length lenses and my photos look normal now
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2010, 11:33:31 am »
More info on the doco:
http://www.karlvonmoller.com/blog/news/

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2010, 11:53:21 am »
anyway, the misconception occured when this "behind the scene" is out before its documentary not as the usually the hollywood movies do (behind the scene is at the end of the story)... so when the documentary will be out? should be something and worth waiting for, i wish to see Dave is posing somewhere while Karl is doing the Blooms panning effect with the surrounding effect of the circle of confusion. hopefully it will be free! at least for us :)
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2010, 12:49:30 pm »
Karl has been kind enough to share the how and why of "grading":

And gives a sneak peak at what the final doco result will look like.

For those (including myself initially) who though the background was "too dark", it's time to learn from the pros!

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2010, 01:08:36 pm »
For those (including myself initially) who though the background was "too dark", it's time to learn from the pros!
Dave... dont be too much be influenced by a photographers mind, they got a very different perspective, as i said... they dont like oscilloscope! u may well say that Karl is astonished by your Tektronix... but thats just what they put it out, you dont know whats inside ;) seeing is believing! believing is doing!... what did i say?

unless you want to be listed in the best cinematic and director of photography award, then you can do whatever u like. this photography thing is really a subjective matter. will took forever to discuss what u like or dont like. as you said, you will not satisfy everyone. not the electronics bunch in here.

we kinda used and like your existing setup (well lit lab n very crowded background)+spinning erthernet board as an intro. but that one can be improved though ;), but if you delve too much into photography, that will rip out some part of electronics within yourself. ;)

my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 01:13:26 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2010, 01:14:05 pm »
More behind the scenes stuff on Karl's TV ad for Canon:


Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2010, 01:22:34 pm »
but the fact is.. actually... i will be more astonished if you can do all those blooming summer winter COC effect + horse riding frequently here in EEVBlog. you will be noted by videography giants out there more than ever!
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline DJPhil

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 511
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2010, 05:37:25 pm »
Karl has been kind enough to share the how and why of "grading":

Maybe a vignette would draw the average fellow's eyes to the subject, but I was still staring at your bench gear.

I can't help it. :D
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2010, 07:05:20 pm »
I think Shafri needs to spend a little less time in electronics and more in photography, he's getting that exited that I can't understand what he is on about anymore  :o
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9095
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2010, 07:17:50 pm »
I think Shafri needs to spend a little less time in electronics and more in photography, he's getting that exited that I can't understand what he is on about anymore  :o
i'm done with photography, thats why i came here. and then... when i'm done here, i'll go somewhere else ;)... just a matter of time.
and trust me, sometime i also dont understand myself what i'm talking about.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 07:22:47 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2010, 07:48:45 pm »
nice to know I'm not alone  ;)
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2010, 12:57:06 am »
I think Shafri needs to spend a little less time in electronics and more in photography, he's getting that exited that I can't understand what he is on about anymore  :o

Whew, I thought it was just me!  ;D

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2010, 01:05:48 am »
so when the documentary will be out?

When Karl's finished it!

Quote
hopefully it will be free! at least for us :)

Yes, the final doco will be available for all to see.

Dave.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13677
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2010, 06:47:01 am »
so what exactly is this documentary about ? you Dave or electronics today on the whole ?
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29701
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2010, 06:50:24 am »
so what exactly is this documentary about ? you Dave or electronics today on the whole ?

It's about the history of electronics design and manufacture and hobby electronics in Australia, the changes, and the future.
I'm just one of half a dozen people interviewed. See Karl's blog page for some of the other people.

Dave.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf