Author Topic: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide  (Read 1081710 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10003
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #250 on: November 15, 2010, 09:02:39 am »
It has been found that not all USB memory sticks will work with the DS1042E so you may just have an incompatability problem ? It is worth trying another brand of memory stick. I used a really old Sandisk Cruzer 128Mb ....yes 128Mb  :D
yes i agree, rigol do not accept all usb pendrive, i also need to use older version of usb card reader to be able for rigol to read/write, even that i need several attempt, it always says "usb device asserted" but nothing happened. i need to wait until it says "usb install successful" or read the firmware to upgrade after several attempt (plug unplug) IIRC.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline accepttheownage

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #251 on: November 16, 2010, 03:31:30 am »
Got my oscilloscope in today (off of ebay), unfortunately also HW:58 and version:2.05 :(
That sucks, I got this oscilloscope with the hopes of turning it into 100mhz right away. Mine will not detect the modified firmware on the USB stick either (it does install the USB stick successfully). Hope someone finds a workaround soon!
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10003
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #252 on: November 16, 2010, 05:54:28 am »
they are (rigol) working hard to get their 100MHz model sold... i think.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9910
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #253 on: November 16, 2010, 09:46:09 am »
There is always the possibility that the modified firmware file that is currently 2.08.02, falls outside an acceptable range. Owners of a DS1052E will need to provide the experts on this forum with more detail. The FW2.05 full version number (02.05.XX) should be available on the hardware information page. The hacked 2.02SP2 firmware could then be modified to a version one LSB higher to see if that works.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 06:16:24 pm by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline Polossatik

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • Country: be
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #254 on: November 16, 2010, 03:33:11 pm »
There is always the possibility that the modified firmware file that is currentky 2.08.02, falls outside an acceptable range. Owners of a DS1052E will need to provide the experts on this forum with more detail. The FW2.05 full version number (02.05.XX) should be available on the hardware information page. The hacked 2.02SP2 firmware could then be modified to a version one LSB higher to see if that works.

The "hack" is nothing more than an edit.
You can "play around" your self.
I can recommend xvi32 found here as an excellent free hex editor if you run windows.


simply click on the right panel, change for example the 8 to 5 and the 02 follwing to anything you like and save

It is however more likley Rigol changed the firware to not look for this string anymore but an other (masked/encrypted) part of the firware update file. I assume they also read this thread :)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 03:51:26 pm by polossatik »
Real Circuit design time in minutes= (2 + Nscopes) Testim + (40 +120 Kbrewski) Nfriends

Testim = estimated time in minutes Nscopes= number of oscilloscopes present Kbrewski = linear approx of the nonlinear beer effect Nfriends = number of circuit design friends present
 

Offline accepttheownage

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #255 on: November 16, 2010, 07:00:16 pm »
Any way to make a firmware dump from the oscilloscope? There are a bunch of headers inside, probably a JTAG header as well. Either that or just wait until Rigol releases update 02.05, IF they will  >:(
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10003
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #256 on: November 16, 2010, 08:04:24 pm »
in the same manner they try to block the hack... is there any way to block outsiders from viewing this thread? i think not :( :-\
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline teixeluis

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #257 on: November 16, 2010, 11:05:04 pm »
I bought a Rigol DS1052E from DX a month ago (it have only arrived this week). I took the risk of doing the hack. It was originally with FW 2.02 SP2. I have directly done the hack manually via serial port using hyperterminal. I believe that in my first try I might have sent an incorrect character along with the valid strings (maybe some copy+paste mistake).

I rebooted the scope after the hack, and upon checking System Info, I found that the model Nr was missing. Checking the time base, I realized that it had not changed (5 ns minimum).

Repeated the process (the *IDN? command replied with something like "Rigol Technologies,,,"), and after rebooting again, it seemed ok. The model number would appear (DS1152E), along with the rest of the information. The timebase could now be set down to 2 ns.

As everything seemed ok, I performed an upgrade to the version 2.04 from Rigol's website. Performed an auto-calibration, and everything was apparently ok. However as I move the time base from 200 ns to 500 ns I notice an dramatic increase in noise. Adjusting the vertical amplifier does not change the amplitude of the signal (even at 10 v/div it has the same width). Adjusting the vertical position varies the amplitude slightly. I measured the frequency and confirmed to be 100 MHz.

In this forum I found that some people experienced the same problem with hardware version 58. As I went to check the HW version (using 2x CH 1, 2 x CH2, MATH key presses), to my surprise I found that this field was blank (like you can see on the photo below).

Now I am not sure what is the best step to solve this problem.

The original serial number starts by DS1ED12391xxxx. Is it likely that this is HW version 58? Could the potential copy+paste mistake have screwed up calibration data?

lteixeira
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9910
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #258 on: November 16, 2010, 11:31:23 pm »
lteixeira

Two things...

1) Your Rigol must be older stock if it came with FW2.02 installed, so it is unlikely to be hardware 57 or 58 as they came with FW2.04.

2) You have probably corrupted an area of the configuration memory in your efforts to upgrade. This has occurred to others when using RS232 and manual editing. The USB method using Shafri's tools is safer. Your best chance of repairing your scope lies with a 'Good Samaritan' named Drieg. You will find him hosting a topic on this forum discussing the repair of  'Bricked' Rigol scopes. Drieg has the knowledge to advise you on what rectification action is required. Look here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1379.0

Good Luck
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline teixeluis

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #259 on: November 16, 2010, 11:57:30 pm »
Humm tough luck... I am thinking how much it would be worth risking to try firmware 02.04.01.02 instead, considering the behaviour of the oscilloscope with people who had taken this solution. There is no correlation between the hardware version and the serial number? I believe my serial nr is greater than that of some who report to have HW version 58. Other than the noise issue all other aspects are ok. Voltages and frequency measurements are consistent with the reality.

lteixeira
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10003
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #260 on: November 17, 2010, 01:50:54 am »
I'm providing the simple tool with awareness that there is danger by using RS232 and probably even with USB if given the wrong command. and i've experience the data corruption (thanx again to Drieg for the fix) before this thread is fully established. And now there is still people want to experience what i did. teixeluis, now you are on the boat that i was. Maybe we can share experience later ;)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Polossatik

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • Country: be
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #261 on: November 17, 2010, 01:57:32 am »
It must be then really old stock, seen mine is bought in may 2010 and is HW 57 and came with 02.04.00 IIRC.

If it's really came with 02.02 then I would not mess around more and kindly ask Drieg if he has time to help you  8)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:00:02 am by polossatik »
Real Circuit design time in minutes= (2 + Nscopes) Testim + (40 +120 Kbrewski) Nfriends

Testim = estimated time in minutes Nscopes= number of oscilloscopes present Kbrewski = linear approx of the nonlinear beer effect Nfriends = number of circuit design friends present
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9910
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #262 on: November 17, 2010, 09:24:57 am »
lteixeira

Having re-read your message, you do appear to be suffering similar problems to those experienced by users using pre 2.04SP1 firmware on a HW58 unit. There are however some issues that cannot be expalined by your firmware version change....

To answer your serial number question... I do not know the sequencing but logically a higher number is a newer unit.

My serial number on a HW58 unit bought September 2010 is: DS1ED123409XXX

As yours is stated as DS1ED12391XXXX it should be a later unit than mine, BUT your serial number doesn't look right to me. I would expect DS1ED123491XXX or DS1ED1234091XX. Please check the serial number on the rear of your units case to confirm that the displayed serial number tallies in the utility screen. The serial number can be accidentally changed during the hack process and using hyperterminal is fraught with danger as typo's are not tolerated well by the Rigol. If you have got a HW57/58 unit you have to wonder how a later unit could turn up with an early firmware  :-[  there is always the possibility that someone had already tried to hack it using FW2.02SP2 and discovered the firmware incompatibility issue that exists. This is all total conjecture of course, based on no facts. Are you convinced that your unit was actually brand new ? Your picture shows quite a few ‘power on’ cycles…does that tally with how many times you believe you may have turned the unit on ?

Drieg is the expert but you could consider installing firmware 2.04SP1 which should be backwardly compatible to all previous hardware versions. Please remember there will always be a risk though so don’t blame me if it goes wrong.
The fact that you have no HW number in the utility screen is a concern because it could be a sign of data corruption in the system configuration files. Drieg may be able to recover that situation for you as well.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 09:51:34 am by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9910
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #263 on: November 17, 2010, 10:10:49 am »
In order to assist owners in identifying the hardware Version number of their DS1052E (when it has been corrupted in config) I looked for possible differences that are present on my HW58 unit. I have already documented the fact that my unit no longer has the HV supply for the LCD CCFL backlight and I believe LEDs are now used. I cannot advise when this change occurred but with the assistance of other owners, their hardware version, partial serial number and approx delivery date, we may be able to work out roughly when the change occurred. I have just done a test and confirmed that the missing HV section can be seen through the rear vents of the DSO without any disassembly. I used an LED torch and my camera in 'close-up' mode pressed against the rear air vents at the top right of the rear panel.
I'll start the data collection process by stating that I have a HW58 DS1052E Serial No. DS1ED123409XXX delivered Sept 2010. No HV supply fitted.

Picture attached.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 11:21:27 am by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline teixeluis

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #264 on: November 17, 2010, 11:17:04 am »
Hello Aurora,

I confirm that the serial is consistent with serial in the back of the unit (apart from the 'D' replaced by a 'B' of course). My oscilloscope
arrived last week from DealExtreme, after nearly a month of waiting for stock to arrive plus shipping time (about 2 weeks). The DSO seemed
perfectly brand new without any marks of wear. However at DX they seemed to have only rushed to do the shipping after I put some
pressure. There was in fact about 1 week lag between the point they shipped my pending order, and the time they updated the site with new
stock of Rigol's (as such I would not rule out the possibility that they might have shipped a unit they could have lying around). Once I have
the opportunity I will check for the backlight HV supply.

lteixeira

 

Offline rr100

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 339
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #265 on: November 18, 2010, 06:42:30 am »
Just to confirm here: DS1ED12361* serial, delivered about 1-2 weeks ago (don't know how old was, probably not old). Worked with the instructions from 1st post (USB, used the windows program). HW58 of course, no HV supply.
Many thanks for the upgrade, early Christmas present :-).
 

Offline reqwired

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #266 on: November 18, 2010, 03:16:05 pm »
 DS1ED12351xxxx rec'd last week,  factory calibration shows early September 2.04 sp1  no HV    Thanks

« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 05:46:54 pm by reqwired »
 

Offline M84AB1

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: au
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #267 on: November 18, 2010, 03:47:10 pm »
I recently bought my Rigol DS1052E off eBay about two weeks ago and it came with FW 2.04 SP1 installed. I therefore assume that it is HW 58 model. I have just successfully hacked it to the 100Mhz model and I could not be happier. The guide was easy to follow and went without a glitch. My scope now reads the model number as DS1102E and the time base can be set all the way down to 2ns. I can safely say that my Rigol is not showing any abnormalities and functions as it did prior to the hack. There is no noise or any issues at all.

I have built a 50Mhz Oscillator and I recorded images of the signal including its Peak-Peak values before and after the hack. It measured Vpp @ 4.8V prior to hack and 6Vpp after. I will post pictures soon.

All in all, once again many thanks to the guy(s) who have made this guide and therefore hack possible :)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 03:48:59 pm by Nejo »
 

Offline altaic

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 45
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #268 on: November 18, 2010, 05:06:43 pm »
Hi all, many thanks for everyone's work in this thread and others.

Three days ago I ordered the DS1052E from Amazon (Amazon Prime; $4 next day shipping), and yesterday I hacked it! The unit reported itself as HW57 (serial DS1ED122XXXXXX) and came with 00.02.04.00.03 firmware, which necessitated using a patched version of 00.02.02.02.00 (although I didn't try unpatched, since it reportedly fails). To transfer the firmware, I used a new Sandisk Cruzer 2GB USB stick (which I tested first by capturing and storing a waveform, then checking it on my computer). To overwrite the model and serial number, I used Shafri's utility (running under Parallels Desktop 6.0 on Mac OS X 10.6.5) with the USB cable that came with the unit. After the hack, I upgraded to 00.02.04.01.02 (2.04 SP1) and then performed a self calibration. It definitely appears to have worked, although I don't have precision signal generators and such to quantitatively analyze it (hence the budget oscope).

Regarding the HV supply, it appears (by peaking in the rear right vent with a keychain flashlight) that mine also does not have one, so the search for the difference between 57 and 58 continues. If it'd facilitate further low cost enhancement of my oscope, I may be persuaded to pull it apart and take pics at some point... I hadn't planned to, but I'm kind of curious, myself.

Cheers and thanks again,
Will
 

Offline murks007

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #269 on: November 18, 2010, 06:57:43 pm »
Hey Guys!

Another successfull hack done at 00.02.04.01.02 (HW58).
2ns timebase is avalable now.
Measured the risetime of an ATMEGA8 Output- Pin.
See attached pictures.

Not realy a "big" difference, but maybe the ATMEGA is not faster :)

Thank's a lot to all people who were involved to this thread!
 

Offline beerhunter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 29
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #270 on: November 19, 2010, 01:12:22 am »
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
 

Offline cicastol

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #271 on: November 19, 2010, 08:46:54 am »
I bought a Rigol DS1052E from DX a month ago (it have only arrived this week). I took the risk of doing the hack. It was originally with FW 2.02 SP2.
The original serial number starts by DS1ED12391xxxx. Is it likely that this is HW version 58? Could the potential copy+paste mistake have screwed up calibration data?
lteixeira
Also mine is a 12391xxx and is one of the latest with hw 58 and fw2.04sp1, so like said by Aurora probably someone tried to hack your's scope before you......
IMHO  try to upgrade to 2.04sp1 and redo the self calibration.

 

Offline cicastol

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #272 on: November 19, 2010, 09:04:38 am »
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
With a 300mhz Agilent probe my modded 1052/1102 goes well beyond 100mhz with a rise time of 1.4nS in eqmode and 1.6nS in real time!!  ;D
The  standard probe is limiting a bit.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 09:11:31 am by cicastol »
 

Offline tyblu

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 287
  • Country: 00
    • blog.tyblu.ca
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #273 on: November 19, 2010, 01:01:50 pm »
So, has anybody else upmodded (tm) their DS1102E to a DS1152E? I'm wondering if this is the next big thing and how worthy is it?
With a 300mhz Agilent probe my modded 1052/1102 goes well beyond 100mhz with a rise time of 1.4nS in eqmode and 1.6nS in real time!!  ;D
The  standard probe is limiting a bit.
While it may draw on the screen an impressive rise time -- looks like 0.35/1.6ns=219MHz -- it is still physically sampling at 100MHz. With 300MHz probes, this gives you a 3dB error of 75MHz sine waves, so you could theoretically measure the voltage of a 26MHz square wave signal with a rise time of 13.45ns, though the rise time may actually be slimmer in which case the measurements are no longer valid. I usually just assume that my DSO setup can't read better than 25% of the system cutoff to allow for a bit of processing delay, too (though it may not exist).
actual: t_rise_min_actual = 0.35/f_probe + 0.35/f_scope --> f_osc_measure_max = 26 MHz
my assumption: t_rise_min_tyblu = 0.25/f_probe + 0.25/f_scope --> f_osc_measure_max = 19 MHz
Fortunately we are often only interested in whether or not the harmonics or transients exist and their width, not their voltage at every instant in time. I'll have to see how slim of a pulse the trigger can catch, as that would be useful info. Note that I, if I used 300MHz probes and the 100MHz Rigol, couldn't measure the exact voltage of pulses with a width of less than 76ns, but I can certainly measure its width to within an accuracy of 2/100MHz=20ns. If you can safely assume the form of what you're measuring, your measurements get even better (import the data into matlab and do regression using the waveform you have in mind).

<edit> You know, I've gained this viewpoint from a good understanding of signal processing and white papers (Tek, Agilent, etc.), but I just spotted a big flaw in it: a DSO's sampling frequency is not necessarily its cutoff frequency, as it is in an analog 'scope. It certainly is for sine waves, but for a single pulse? I'm not sure. It requires a bit more thought (and digital signal sampling error and jitter analysis -- woohoo!).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 01:08:33 pm by tyblu »
Tyler Lucas, electronics hobbyist
 

Offline scrat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 608
  • Country: it
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #274 on: November 19, 2010, 02:49:31 pm »
I don't understand much of your calculation...

Why do you assume a 25% delay? Acquisition on the Rigol (single channel, normal memor, max sampling freq) is at 1GHz. There isn't any 25% discount. The time for processing is taken from one triggering shot to the next (triggered is ignored for a certain time window).
A 100MHz bandwidth means that a sine wave at 100MHz is attenuated by maximum 3dB, giving 70.7% of the original amplitude (and a phase delay). On the Rigol, many people noticed a -3dB bandwidth over 100MHz (in fact the specs are "at least").
A well compensated 300MHz probe should introduce no more than 0.46dB (10%) attenuation at 100MHz (  1/(1+(f/fprobe)^2)  ).
Since attenuation of the probe and of the analog signal path inside the scope are in series, they add in dB, so you get 3.46dB (36.4%) in the worst case at 100MHz.
To properly test the scope, one should have a signal generator and a much higher bandwidth scope, all at 50Ohm input. A square wave can be useful only if it is bandwidth limited at a frequency much higher than the scope is. Otherwise, one can guess bandwidth from a post-processing, but a mimimum high frequency component must be present, to test on it.
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf