Author Topic: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide  (Read 1083214 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #400 on: January 03, 2011, 09:30:26 pm »
Yesterday I've sent an email to Rigol support regarding this. This is probably a software bug, but just in case I will wait for an answer from rigol before trying to do any mod to this unit. I will post here any development.

Also, I am one step away from removing the bloody warranty sticker and replace the cooling fan with a slower/more silent one, the noise is driving me crazy! The thing doesn't even generate any considerable heat and sounds like my xbox 360 :D

A short video of the issue, for those who don't have it to understand (my camera doesn't like fluorescent lighting and doesn't have manual focus control:P):



(am I doing something wrong?)

Edit: my version: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocasdaneve/5320723214/#
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 09:32:08 pm by zenith1111 »
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #401 on: January 04, 2011, 12:46:43 am »
@gnail, gandalfg8: What's your hardware revision number? Is it HW 58?

Hardware 58 and Firmware 00.02.05.00.00 at the time.

Now, with thanks to you, running FW 2.04SP1 on my "new" DS1102E:-)

I just noticed my DSP is shown on the sytem info page of my modified 1052 as 02.20 whilst both gnail and Zenith1111 report theirs as 00.00, is this something that changes with the mod?
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #402 on: January 04, 2011, 12:52:44 am »

(am I doing something wrong?)


Don't think you're doing anything wrong but I certainly didn't see anything like that.
As has been previously suggested it does look like your 2.05 FW is a later version with a bug in it.
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #403 on: January 04, 2011, 01:09:47 am »
My first idea was that maybe the firmware was corrupt, but I doubt that they didn't verify the data after programming. But it is weird that there are people with the same exact problem as I do and people with supposedly the same hardware and software that don't have any problems... I don't think they would have made changes to the firmware without changing the version number to track problems.

As gandalf reported, apparently some v58 scopes report a different version of DSP, is there a chance that there actually are different v58 boards, or the same v58 boards with different components?

Still no answer from Rigol. I bet a couple of Rigol engineers are reading this and releasing their evil laughs over the confusion they purposely created  ;D

Well, good night everyone! (It's 1:07 AM here in Portugal)


Edit: Oh.... Now I see what you are talking about... the ARE different... mine is 00.02.05.01.00 and yours is 00.02.05.00.00, sorry, I really need to sleep  :D
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:13:31 am by zenith1111 »
 

Offline accepttheownage

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #404 on: January 04, 2011, 05:12:13 am »
My first idea was that maybe the firmware was corrupt, but I doubt that they didn't verify the data after programming. But it is weird that there are people with the same exact problem as I do and people with supposedly the same hardware and software that don't have any problems... I don't think they would have made changes to the firmware without changing the version number to track problems.

As gandalf reported, apparently some v58 scopes report a different version of DSP, is there a chance that there actually are different v58 boards, or the same v58 boards with different components?

Still no answer from Rigol. I bet a couple of Rigol engineers are reading this and releasing their evil laughs over the confusion they purposely created  ;D

Well, good night everyone! (It's 1:07 AM here in Portugal)


Edit: Oh.... Now I see what you are talking about... the ARE different... mine is 00.02.05.01.00 and yours is 00.02.05.00.00, sorry, I really need to sleep  :D

Thanks for the video, my oscilloscope does exactly the same thing when I switch the trigger mode!
Only way to get it to boot up without locking up is to mash the run/stop key while it's booting until it pauses (right before it has a chance to auto trigger). My version info is identical to yours. Hopefully Rigol will sort this out soon (unless it's intentional, that is )  :(
 

Offline killerwhale

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #405 on: January 04, 2011, 08:03:42 am »
At first, when the problem was reported, I also thought it might be intentional. But since zenith1111's unit is factory programmed and has 2.05 SP1, I think the real issue is QC at Rigol who released the FW without proper tests having been done. The only big problem is that there is no way yet to downgrade, unless they release a SP2.
 

Offline scrat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 608
  • Country: it
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #406 on: January 04, 2011, 08:45:16 am »
One could ask Rigol for a way to downgrade, knowing that this will surely solve the problem... ;D
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #407 on: January 04, 2011, 10:37:56 am »
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)

 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10065
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #408 on: January 04, 2011, 10:55:24 am »
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #409 on: January 04, 2011, 11:41:25 am »
Rigol's answer was taking too long (sent from www.rigolna.com), so I've sent another message, this time from eu.rigol.com, and the answer was immediate, the problem is that this second time I've forgot to mention my model and serial number ;D

I've just sent a reply with the information they asked, let's see how the problem is solved (I'm betting in a 2.05 SP2).

Edit:
@shafri: Now that would be just plain awesome, if the only thing this needs to perform as a D was the correct firmware and a set of probe connectors soldered to the board :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:44:45 am by zenith1111 »
 

Offline torch

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 340
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #410 on: January 04, 2011, 12:23:48 pm »
unless they release a SP2.

Where does Rigol post FW updates? I had a look at their site and don't see an obvious link. I did find a link to "DS1000E Update v2 SP2 (1.39 MB)" on the North American site but the file has a modified date of 21/07/2009.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10065
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #411 on: January 04, 2011, 01:15:45 pm »
@shafri: Now that would be just plain awesome, if the only thing this needs to perform as a D was the correct firmware and a set of probe connectors soldered to the board :)
i changed back to original non LA (E) version. changing to D was the reason i got into trouble. D version got additional internal daughterboard, without it changing from E to D is useless, and risking breaking the scope. so i asked gandalf... is it "really" worth changing to 150MHz? if you have proper tool to check, and its confirmed working to 150MHz, then we will have a new era in rigol hack. for that, this discussion should be back to the original 150MHz hack thread, everybody is watching, its just not everybody has the power to do the proper verification, i'm waiting with passion ;)
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #412 on: January 04, 2011, 02:38:28 pm »
Regarding the logic analyzer, that's not very bad... for the trouble it would take to void the warranty, find and buy the connectors and getting everything to work, I guess I'm better of with one of these:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/open-workbench-logic-sniffer-p-612.html?cPath=174
I'm just waiting for them to build more, those specs for 50USD is just unbeatable...

Regarding the 150MHz, I'm far from being an expert in analog-to-digital conversion, but from what I know of the ADCs on the ds1000e (and that those may actually be already overclocked), they must be getting pretty close to their limits. Besides, the supplied probes' reported maximum bandwidth is 150MHz, so they may also begin to interfere with the results. If, however, someone gets it working decently at that speed I will definitely thank them and be willing to buy him/her a beer :P

P.S.: Still no answer from Rigol, but I guess it's normal. It's 14:40 here, so it must be around 22:40 in China (I am pretty sure the email I received came from there).
 

Offline dendennis

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 8
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #413 on: January 04, 2011, 09:10:01 pm »
I asked rigol about the 2.05sp1 issue and here is the reply :-
Quote
_____________________________
Geoff,

thank you for the note. We haven't actually seen 2.05 sp1 here in the U.S. yet, but I have sent your feedback on to the design team and hopefully we can verify and update it quickly.

Regards,

Chris
_____________________________


here's hoping they can solve the issue.
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #414 on: January 04, 2011, 09:46:10 pm »
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.

Hi Shafri, I'm sorry but I don't know.

Whilst searching for information on the 1152 I found a copy of the user manual for the DS1000E-EDU series which covered the DS1062 60MHz version and the DS1152 150MHz version, the screenshot I posted of the system info came from that manual.
I remembered an earlier post mentioning an attempt to convert by switching the name to DS1152E but without having the information to convert the serial number, and a follow up post asking if anyone knew what the appropriate letter would be in the serial number, so thought it worth sharing the information.

I haven't tried it yet myself, thought I would leave that to someone with a bit more experience of these and perhaps better able to recover from any problems.

I wasn't aware of your attempts to convert to the LA version but would imagine that could cause problems due to the lack of appropriate hardware.

 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #415 on: January 04, 2011, 10:14:19 pm »
i changed back to original non LA (E) version. changing to D was the reason i got into trouble. D version got additional internal daughterboard, without it changing from E to D is useless, and risking breaking the scope. so i asked gandalf... is it "really" worth changing to 150MHz? if you have proper tool to check, and its confirmed working to 150MHz, then we will have a new era in rigol hack. for that, this discussion should be back to the original 150MHz hack thread, everybody is watching, its just not everybody has the power to do the proper verification, i'm waiting with passion ;)

As per my previous reply, I haven't tried this myself as yet, but will be carrying out some tests on my recent DS1052E to DS1102E conversion shortly.
I'm not sure yet if I'll try this further conversion, that could depend on whether or not some other brave member tries it first :)

I have RF test facilities up to 1GHz and hope to check the actual amplitude vs frequency response of the scope rather than measure rise times.
I'm planning on doing this by using the scope itself just as an indicator, with a direct coax feed and no probes, so that the measured results rely only the calibration of the signal generator.

However, I need to carry out some initial tests to ensure I use a generator that is properly levelled acros the range of test frequencies and to ensure also that there are no obvious problems with impedance matching or my test cables.
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #416 on: January 05, 2011, 03:02:53 am »
A Rigol engineer answered and sent me a firmware update. It now reports the software version 00.02.05.01.02

Apparently everything is working now.

If someone with the same problem wants it, I've uploaded the file here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U8DLHTA2
 

Offline dendennis

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 8
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #417 on: January 05, 2011, 04:08:24 am »
cheers everything works lovely now thanks for sharing.
 

Offline killerwhale

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #418 on: January 05, 2011, 06:54:13 am »
Hi, zenith1111! Thanks for sharing! You apparently had more luck with it than I had.
In fact, I contacted Rigol as soon as the problem appeared but they didn't acknowledge it. They sent me a FW update file (the version information in the header was different from what I'd seen) but it didn't work. So I asked again only to get a reply that the problem cannot be resolved as "there's is no way to downgrade the firmware."   ::) I tried to contact them today but their e-mail servers were rejecting mail... Whatever that means.
At any rate, here's a file I made (as always by copying the header) to downgrade to 2.04 SP1 for those who need it. I downgraded to that version since I don't want to lose the possibility to upgrade/downgrade in the future, should I ever need it. Plus to that, someone has yet to say that there's is an advantage of using 2.05 SPx vs. 2.04 SP1.
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #419 on: January 05, 2011, 11:23:46 am »
That sucks... When I contacted Rigol North America I never got a response, then I've sent another message from eu.rigol.com and an engineer answered in less than one day.

Regarding 2.05 vs 2.04, I believe the only new "feature" is the inability to downgrade  ;)
 

Offline zenith1111

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #420 on: January 05, 2011, 11:59:57 am »
At any rate, here's a file I made (as always by copying the header) to downgrade to 2.04 SP1 for those who need it. I downgraded to that version since I don't want to lose the possibility to upgrade/downgrade in the future, should I ever need it.

Any chance you could make a downgrade file for this new version? My unit with 00.02.05.01.02 ignores the one you've posted above...

BTW, I'll do a couple of hours "burn-in" test to see if it fails, if it doesn't I'll just void the warranty to swap the fan for a quieter one, these things appear to be reasonably well made and pretty reliable.

PS: To those who hacked their units to 100MHz: did you notice if it gets hotter? (I guess not, since the hard thing for it to do is the 1GSa/s which the 1052 already does, but...)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 12:23:58 pm by zenith1111 »
 

Offline darrylp

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #421 on: January 05, 2011, 02:31:02 pm »
I posted this in topic 1495 the other day, re extending the 1052 to 150MHz, but as that seems like a quiet thread thought it might be worth reposting here in case anyone feels like attempting the 1152 software conversion:-)
the problem is... do you really have the 150MHz bandwidth? or just the name? fyi: i was converting my scope to LA (D) version.

Hi Shafri, I'm sorry but I don't know.

Whilst searching for information on the 1152 I found a copy of the user manual for the DS1000E-EDU series which covered the DS1062 60MHz version and the DS1152 150MHz version, the screenshot I posted of the system info came from that manual.
I remembered an earlier post mentioning an attempt to convert by switching the name to DS1152E but without having the information to convert the serial number, and a follow up post asking if anyone knew what the appropriate letter would be in the serial number, so thought it worth sharing the information.

I haven't tried it yet myself, thought I would leave that to someone with a bit more experience of these and perhaps better able to recover from any problems.

I wasn't aware of your attempts to convert to the LA version but would imagine that could cause problems due to the lack of appropriate hardware.




I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.
 

Offline gandalfg8

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #422 on: January 05, 2011, 03:44:46 pm »

I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.

I've taken a look at the post you mention and the logic seems reasonable enough but unfortunately, as you point out there, your suggestion indicates that a scope with serial number starting DS1EFxxx should have a 50MHz bandwidth whilst being able to select the 2ns timebase option.

Given that the information showing DS1EFxxx as the serial number sequence for the DS1152E-EDU 150MHz scope came direct from the user manual I suspect there might be a bit more to it than that.
 

Offline darrylp

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: gb
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #423 on: January 05, 2011, 04:36:03 pm »

I had posted, what seems to be a logical use of the serial number ( the binary bits of the letter ascii code ) seem to show features being turned on or off.   the F  as the changing part number, would turn on the final bit unused between the 1052 and the 1102 models.

search my posts ( by name )  and you'll see it i'm sure.

I've taken a look at the post you mention and the logic seems reasonable enough but unfortunately, as you point out there, your suggestion indicates that a scope with serial number starting DS1EFxxx should have a 50MHz bandwidth whilst being able to select the 2ns timebase option.

Given that the information showing DS1EFxxx as the serial number sequence for the DS1152E-EDU 150MHz scope came direct from the user manual I suspect there might be a bit more to it than that.



yep, just found my other post....   yes from that the 'F' part would as you say turn on the 50Mhz limit and enable the 2ns option.  of course if those bitwise flags control those parts,    the 1E? ( in hex, and then back to binary ... my listed binary flags of that part of the serial number ) still leaves a 0 (zero) which comes from the 1_E_? part of the serial.   so its unlikely....  maybe the internal software on seeing that combination ( from the 1EF , and the model name ) swicthes something else not in that front part of the circuit ?

possibly instead instead of the individual bits for the 50MHz and 2ns,  the two bits are used as a pair, thus giving us 3 ( or 4 ) options from the two apparant bit flags.
 

Offline killerwhale

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 20
Re: changing the rigol DS1052E to DS1102E using USB , the dummy guide
« Reply #424 on: January 05, 2011, 08:51:13 pm »
@zenith1111:
Until Rigol release a new FW or someone cracks the hash algorithm used in the FW file header, there is no way (I know of) to make a downgrade file for your new FW... You may try the attached file, but I really don't think it will work.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf