Poll

Are you buying the powersupply kit ?

Yes
No
Perhaps

Author Topic: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?  (Read 45149 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2012, 08:53:49 pm »
The amount of troubleshooting for many people is probably going to be limited to emailing you or posting on the forum that the kit doesn't work, that they did everything right, and that they don't own a DMM to test it.

Yes, and that is the fear, which I have experinenced many times before.
If it doesn't work because they screwed up, I will often cop the support emails, or in some cases I've had kits returned in the post with a note saying "your kit didn't work, fix it."

Quote
You might choose to let the customers assembly the through-hole components like connectors if this would save you a significant amount of assembly fees. This is how ELV operates. In most of their kits, all SMT components are pre-assembled, but TH components are not.

Yes, that is another option.

Dave.
 

Offline WBB

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Re: Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #126 on: February 13, 2012, 09:10:29 pm »

IMHO, the kit concept is great for not only beginners to learn to solder etc, but here are some points that may or may not have crossed your mind.
Being a kit you have the pride of something you have made yourself.
If the assembled kit does not work then there is a fantastic opportunity to post the fault of the forum and have other help you diagnose the problem
As thru hole, you can repair the unit a little easier, source part from dse, jaycar etc
Mods will be easier, if they entail soldering on the board, or replacing parts
Updates to the DACs and ADCs will be something joe blow will stand a chance at doing
If Joe blows a track, he stands a better chance with typical TH boards
Layout is most already done for thru hole... People following at home have enjoyed the journey so far
The project shouldn't have to cover all bases. This ain't for NASA
You will still need thru hole components on it anyway (less space saving)
You will still need the meaty traces (less space saving)
As preassembled you are competing with other premade units on the market place

So just a few ideas. However I am not totally against a prebuild unit. It just that the best tools you can have at times are the ones you build yourself. I have noticed that Dave has several kits built from companies like Altronics etc (PSUs)

One final thought.

Above mentioned suppliers have abandoned the market, they have typically used designs from EA, ETI and SC, supplied them until sales go down then ditch the kits ASAP. I would rather buy kits from the bloke that designed the circuit and saw the project to a point where I can purchase it. Not at any stage do you see a supplier of kits who may provide a rev B and update the kit to reflect the changes that occur to the designer after the article is originally published.

Dave this is an opportunity to firmly place yourself in to the re-emerging electronic hobbyist market, and have your fans support you by buying a quality kit which I am sure will prove invaluable on any geeks bench.

Yes I will buy it, if it only comes as a preassembled unit, however I would like to see it as a kit.

Very well said. I also enjoy building things myself. I get a much better understanding of how things work in doing so. Obviously I'm voting for the TH kit.

I do understand that selling a kit is more troublesome from a support standpoint, but there is a great community here to help with that. Besides, goofing up a few wires on an smd kit is going to happen as well. Nothing is idiot proof.

I have really enjoyed the series. Quality kits are hard to find these days at all. Seeing one developed from the beginning to its present state has been very educational and as always, entertaining!

Ultimately Dave should release it in the form he is most comfortable with. A kit gets my vote but I do understand the ramifications of a rather complex kit. Either way, kudos for the excellent work thus far on the ps and the blog in general.
 

Offline Makezilla

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2012, 09:24:20 pm »
From an education perspective I think the TH board has some great advantages because it gives us the ability to 'play along at home' with the superb video content. Sure you can probe the SMD board, but that process is much easier with TH components (well, for my aging eyes it is anyway). And if the assembly doesn't go quite right and it doesn't work the first time, even better. The kits I have learned the most from are the ones that I messed up on the first time through.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2012, 09:31:15 pm »
I do understand that selling a kit is more troublesome from a support standpoint, but there is a great community here to help with that. Besides, goofing up a few wires on an smd kit is going to happen as well. Nothing is idiot proof.

Yes, very true. Unless it's fully assembled and tested, which I don't really want to do.

Quote
I have really enjoyed the series. Quality kits are hard to find these days at all.

That was one of the reasons for doing a kit.

Dave.
 

Offline WBB

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Re: Re: Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2012, 10:30:45 pm »


Yes, very true. Unless it's fully assembled and tested, which I don't really want to do.


Here in the US, even that is not foolproof. Our idiots can be rather ingenious.

Quote

That was one of the reasons for doing a kit.

Dave.

I, for one, hope it makes it to reality.
 

Offline george graves

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #130 on: February 14, 2012, 01:30:08 am »
Dave - just a thought:  In the next blog, can you go over the changes that you've made, and what the current specs are?  I've honestly gotten a bit lost.

I *do* love this series.  Any chance we can get a sneak peek at the case?

Offline sacherjj

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #131 on: February 14, 2012, 04:37:10 pm »
I personally think the right idea is this:

All design that can be SMD done that way and assembled, with exception of the processor.   Or, if the processor is SMD, allow header for connections so it could be desoldered in a hack and the header used for possibly joining multiple boards.  Like many, I think this would be a great board to hack into a dual polarity supply or something else.

The users would solder the through hole pieces, LT3080, heatsink, encoders, headers, power jack, etc. (possibly MCU).

This keeps your assembly costs lower (I assume all SMD is much cheaper than SMD plus through hole.)  Keeps the kit with non-intimidating pieces.  And greatly reduces part count to be put together for the kit.

There is one other thing that I love with the SMD design.  I would venture to say that many more people have done work with through hole than SMD.  We have a board design that you have done with through hole.  It will be cool to see how layout techniques and look changes for SMD.  I'm currently learning how to make that change after laying out TH boards for decades and getting into SMD.  I would be able to take a look at the SMD board and compare it to previous TH versions and see what needs to be changed, what is harder, what is easier. etc.  So the change midstream is actually very instructive.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 04:41:32 pm by sacherjj »
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #132 on: February 14, 2012, 04:54:33 pm »
The users would solder the through hole pieces, LT3080, heatsink, encoders, headers, power jack, etc. (possibly MCU).
This keeps your assembly costs lower (I assume all SMD is much cheaper than SMD plus through hole.)  Keeps the kit with non-intimidating pieces.  And greatly reduces part count to be put together for the kit.

I like that idea a lot.  I was looking forward to doing a kit.  Brings back memories of doing heathkit stuff when I was a lot younger.  But this would lighten the workload on Dave and probably make the kit cheaper in the long run.  I personaly would not mind the kit being all surface mount, but kitting all the parts probably cost more in Dave's time than having all the SMD stuff done by an assembler.  If this kit is being done to be hack friendly I think keeping the MCU thru hole with a socket would be better.

Offline metalphreak

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #133 on: February 14, 2012, 08:52:27 pm »
Dave: if you use AusPost's www.clickandsend.com.au service, you can fill in all the customs stuff online and just print out labels :)

You should only have to fill out the package details once each time you do a batch. Just make sure "keep item details" tickbox is checked.

You can even import data from an excel file.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 08:54:34 pm by metalphreak »
 

Offline dcel

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #134 on: February 17, 2012, 12:07:12 pm »
Quote

Here in the US, even that is not foolproof. Our idiots can be rather ingenious.


Funny, I've been saying " There's no cure for stupid and you can't teach common sense!" for years. Lately, I have been adding, "You can't make it idiot proof, they'll just build a better idiot!"

Its very unfortunate that it seems that a growing portion of the population is just dumb, and getting more so daily. Damn video games  and rap music rotting their brains.

Chris

 

Offline markus_b

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #135 on: February 17, 2012, 12:20:00 pm »
Its very unfortunate that it seems that a growing portion of the population is just dumb, and getting more so daily. Damn video games  and rap music rotting their brains.

Chris
The problem is that is getting socially acceptable to be dumb and for 'society' to bear the cost of being so. If caught being dumb you used to crawl into your hole and lick your wounds, now you try go become famous for it and to get a princess treatment.
Markus

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Offline rkoval

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #136 on: February 21, 2012, 06:34:48 am »
Speaking as someone that is trying to learn the basics, I plan on building up the basic non microcontroller design, then perhaps adding in my own micro preference later on.  I may purchase the kit to have a nice polished unit to add to my bench.

I find this process very educational.  If I did purchase a board from Dave, i would also use it as educational.  I buy test equipment, and other development boards that I have not touched over the years.  I don't look at it as a waste of money.  Its all for me to learn the topic of electronics.  Whether its the design or build process.  If I screw it up, I can try to fix it and learn some troubleshooting.   It all make me better at what I love.

I am a bit nervous about SMD, but I need to learn.  That would be fine too. 

If I want something with a warranty, I will buy commercial.  To me, that is not what a kit is.

Thanks Dave for your hard work and valuable videos.

Rich 


 

Online Rerouter

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #137 on: February 21, 2012, 07:05:33 am »
also agreee that the kit shouldn't have warrenty, its about learning how it works, and being free to modify or combine into anything else,

 

Offline storkbus

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #138 on: February 21, 2012, 03:07:28 pm »
Dave,

I would buy the pcb, kit or device. I really like the design soap show your broadcasting about this powersupply. This is no precooked staged show. Every episode is a new cliffhanger. You really show the various iterations of a design process. People might finally understand that this is very difficult and labor intensive work.
Now regarding the kit. As long as the microcontroller is socketed I'm fine. If people brick the powersupply and they can't repair it themselves they can simply buy a new chip from you. If you're not going to sell a functional and tested device I would prefer a mix of pre soldered smd components and diy TH components. This has been suggested by several other people before as well. I think it's a nice balance. And please don't go below 1206 size? And do add some extra or larger pads for testing/expansion/modification at relavant locations.
Regarding the design what would be the response time of this PSU? I would like to program it so that it can output various voltages at specific moments for testing purposes. I want to simulate low battery and transients for various microcontrollers and sensors.

Regards,

Frederik
 

Offline DarkPrince

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #139 on: February 21, 2012, 07:27:15 pm »
Hey Dave,

  Just wanted to put in my comment on this. Either through-hole kit, smd pre-assembled, smd kit, or any hybrid is supported. I am very interested in acquiring a unit. I do plan on engineering my own at some point in time, hence why I don't mind any sort of version of this system. I am in dire need for a bench-top power-supply though, let alone the abundance of resource you have already provided during the development of this project. I thank you for your dedication, and hope to continue to have the incentive to support, and learn, from you.

Craig
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #140 on: February 21, 2012, 10:00:30 pm »
Regarding the design what would be the response time of this PSU? I would like to program it so that it can output various voltages at specific moments for testing purposes. I want to simulate low battery and transients for various microcontrollers and sensors.

I haven't measured the response time, but it would not be quick. i.e. I doubt you'd get KHz out of the thing. The cap on the SET pin will cause issues here.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #141 on: March 24, 2012, 08:45:08 am »
Dave: if you use AusPost's www.clickandsend.com.au service, you can fill in all the customs stuff online and just print out labels :)
You should only have to fill out the package details once each time you do a batch. Just make sure "keep item details" tickbox is checked.
You can even import data from an excel file.

Damn, I'm now seriously considering using ebay as my online "shopping cart".
Because it seems it integrates very nicely with clickandsend.com.au
http://auspost.com.au/clickandsend/assets/pdf/eBay_Click_and_Send_step_by_step_guide.pdf

Pros:
- Everyone knows ebay
- Streamlined system
- No shopping cart to maintain.
- No more customs form, and a courier will even pick up the items if required.
- No more waiting at the post office as they process each one item by item and getting the dumbest and slowest teller.

Cons:
- Have to print and sign three consignment notes and stuff in those clear stick-on packets - not as easy as my current single Dymo label.
- The good'ol ebay/paypal double-dip fees.
- Ebay is shit at keeping records, everything just vanishes after a few months.

Essentially, the problem I have (and surely every small-scale Oz seller has?) is shipping stuff overseas via Australia post. Ebay integrated with click-and-send seems like a good solution to that.
 
BTW, I can't just use clickandsend on it's own because AFAIK there are no shopping cart system that integrate with it, and it would crazy silly to addresses manually, or fiddle with getting excel import working and cross-correlating with stuff sent in the shopping cart.

Thoughts?

Dave.
 

Offline electrode

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2012, 09:25:15 am »
Groan, ebay. The main reason they can charge such huge fees is that everyone knows ebay; it's the go to place for searching for things.

However, you sell kits and other niche electronics items. I would think you'd be found mostly by (1) YouTube and (2) by this site, so the main benefit you're paying for with ebay is just the clickandsend thing.

If you sold a $100 kit on Ebay, you'd have $1-2 listing fee, $5 final value fee and about $4 paypal fees (depending on a few factors). 10% gone already. I'd avoid it. :(
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2012, 09:27:26 am »
All i want is the Gerber files for Dave Jones Rev C  :-X
 

Offline markus_b

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2012, 09:36:50 am »
Hi Dave,

I don't really care about your logistics, just use what is best for you. I will want to use the lowest cost airmail, essentially as I want the entire cost (toy + postage) to stay below USD 80 or so, stay within the duty-free area. If goes above that I'll have to pay import duty, VAT and handling fee, adding another USD40.

Also, it important that there is the green customs declaration (CN23) and that the complete invoice is attached to the packet in the clear plastic envelope. The invoice has to include everything, including postage fees. If it is missing customs open the package to verify the contents and charge you an additional special handling fee.

I think this is similar in most other European countries.
Markus

A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2012, 09:56:54 am »
Also, it important that there is the green customs declaration (CN23) and that the complete invoice is attached to the packet in the clear plastic envelope. The invoice has to include everything, including postage fees. If it is missing customs open the package to verify the contents and charge you an additional special handling fee.
I think this is similar in most other European countries.

I've never had an issue with simply the custom declaration on the front. And I've shipped to nearly every country on the planet.

Dave.
 

Offline markus_b

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2012, 10:07:36 am »
I've never had an issue with simply the custom declaration on the front. And I've shipped to nearly every country on the planet.

Dave.
I've got plenty of packages with just the CN23 declaration with no problems. But I also paid more in customs fees than the worth of an item once I had a memory dimm send to me by my Sister in Germany because the package had only the CN23 sticker. YMMV.
Markus

A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #147 on: March 24, 2012, 10:12:08 am »
Fleabay is not good in ZA, you have a hard time with exchange regulations at certain banks ( I bank with one, they do nice cheques and those are accepted worldwide) so I would prefer to post a check to Dave and wait for the slip in the mail to collect at my local hub ( near to me, nice people there) and pay the duties.
 

Offline metalphreak

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #148 on: March 24, 2012, 10:39:09 am »
The integration with ebay is actually really nice. If you put in the dimensions for the item on your ebay listing, it'll also automatically import that into clickandsend. Unfortunately for overseas stuff it won't let me pay online and then take it to the post office. So you end up with the person entering in all the details anyway, but atleast you get the address and customs stuff pre-filled out which is handy. I'm not sure how the courier pickup stuff works. Once you pay/process items, it automatically links back to ebay and marks those items as sent as well as recording any tracking numbers.


Regular Airmail - 2 copies of the label - 1 for the package, 1 for yourself

Registered International - 4 copies of the label - 1 for package, 1 for customs, 1 for AusPost to keep, and 1 for you

eBay fees may seem high, but it can be well worth it if you consider how much time you save. A $19.95/month Basic Store subscription gives you access to 30day Fixed Price listings which are only 40c (and include the gallery pic). Usually you only get 14days. Fees are lower for items >$75 (7.90% of the initial AU$75.00 plus 5.00% of the remaining closing price (AU$75.01 to AU$1,000.00)). You also get a free subscription to Selling Manager Pro which will let you print basic invoices automatically.

You need to work out how many you'll sell to determine if a store is worthwhile. You could always just try it for a month to see how it goes. Maybe only do it whenever you have a new batch of products coming in.

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Do you want to buy the powersupply kit ?
« Reply #149 on: March 24, 2012, 10:58:01 am »
Having proper paperwork attached to the package really helps to get fast customs clearance and keep the cost down. A complete CN22, a copy of the invoice (itemized), both with plausible, honest figures, and with the mentioning of the TARIC number do tend to keep the bureaucrats happy. It can make the difference between a week or two of hassle or a 30 second customs clearance.

eBay? Well, I do hate PayPal (IMHO the worst scamming part of eBay) but if it helps to sell the kit ... I don't think other companies will be much cheaper. Running your own shop system is also a lot of work, and renting a shop system and service with all the necessary features is again not cheap.
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