eevBLAB 111 - The TMA Banning x1/x10 Switchable Probes?

[Neutrion]

 
My blood pressure started to rise signifficantly! (No I did not spot it myself...    )  It's time to ask Skynet what it thinks about it!
But the thing is, that these argumentations are  actually very realistic, at least with consumer stuff.

[jonpaul]

Nowadays, a safety risk and poor technique.

GOOD RIDDANCE!

Since the Tek invention of P6062B in 1970s, these have proven to be problematic.   Our archive has a box f them....

lots of Intermittent switches, poor mechanical of switch box,

In use the loading of the X1 and ground clip inductance  is a limit.

We use scopes and plugins with more than sufficient BW and sensitivity to use either 1m scope with proper 10X probes OR just a 50 Ohm input scope and Zo probes.

For a true aero cost  1X just take RG174/U term in BNC, wire cut end of cable direct to ckt.



See Tektronix Circuit Concepts books on Oscilloscope Probes and Probe Circuits.

Happy probing,


Jon

[py-bb]

Funny enough I was just bickering with someone on this forum that x10/x1 probes being switched to x1 with say 500v on them by accident is a relatively low risk thing. So far I've been "lucky" and never accidentally switched a probe.

With the post there are two things I strongly disagree on:

Lack of auto-detection is a self-inflicted wound from the oscilloscope makers - for example LeCroy has this big ring around the oscilloscope port, you put a resistor between that and ground and the resistance tells it the probe's multiplication - this sounds easy and could certainly be done generically, it's not because LeCroy have actively prevented other manufacturers from using their scheme (I believe Tektronix has/had their own similar thing too.

I like LeCroy oscilloscopes but seriously they're dicks for patenting and preventing others from having a LED the oscilloscope can control (so for example the yellow trace has a probe with an RGB LED set to yellow on it) - good simple idea and for no good reason they wont share it.

We all make custom probes by cutting a BNC cable every now and then and sure there'd be some floating around but that there are none is entirely self inflicted.


I found this laughable:

Environmental Impact Reduction: By eliminating the need for additional switch components, the production of fixed x1 and x10 probes can contribute to a reduction in electronic waste, aligning with global sustainability goals and promoting responsible manufacturing practices.

Yes like that switch and adjustable capacitor that combines two devices into one. That is total lipservice/greenwashing.


If there are legit reasons (and I accept there might be) "greenness" isn't one of them, and lack of auto-detection shouldn't' be one of them (but I agree it is).





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I strongly disagree with x1/x10 probes being somehow "evil" - they're useful. Sometimes I go help friends of friends and stuff like that and in my suitcase goes a (well padded) oscilloscope, 4x x1/x10 probes and a good x100 probe (and if there will be high voltage a big high voltage probe)- they are useful and they have a place.

As for the training issue - if you can't teach someone what x1/x10 is - c'mon what hope is there?

[py-bb]

Bloody Ausie timezones.

[forrestc]

I "banned" 1x probes quite a while ago.  I tend to destroy scope probes, so I end up putting the manufacturer-supplied probes away and they only come out when needed for something extremely critical (as in almost never).

Instead I use probemaster 4900 series fixed 10x probes.   Specifically the 4906-1k which is a fixed 10x 300Mhz probe.   It also has reduced my probe destruction rate significantly as I find the most common way I destroy probes is to have one which is still attached to the scope and hanging off the bench.  If they're long enough they can have some on the floor which I will either roll my chair over or step on without realizing they're there.  The 1m length is short enough that they aren't able to touch the floor, eliminating all of these failures.

So, whether it's April 1st or not, I'm perfectly ok with the 1x/10x switch being removed

[golden_labels]

Will they introduce probes, that can be turned to 11x?

[dobsonr741]

This announcement was just to prepare for the real one coming later: Introduction of the wireless probes. Sneak peek from the announcement:

“Are you tired of dealing with bulky and cumbersome oscilloscope probes that limit your ability to accurately measure high-frequency signals? Look no further than Ultra Wideband (UWB) wireless oscilloscope probes, the latest innovation in the test and measurement industry.

UWB technology uses extremely short pulses to transmit signals, allowing for highly accurate and precise measurements of even the fastest signals. With UWB wireless oscilloscope probes, you can achieve bandwidths up to 110 GHz, enabling you to capture and analyze signals with unprecedented accuracy.

In addition to their high-frequency capabilities, UWB wireless oscilloscope probes offer unparalleled convenience and flexibility. With no wires or cables to worry about, you can easily move around your workspace and take measurements from a distance without compromising accuracy or quality. Plus, with built-in rechargeable batteries, you can take your probes on the go and use them in the field without being tethered to a power source.

UWB wireless oscilloscope probes also offer advanced features such as automatic frequency compensation, which ensures accurate measurements even in the presence of environmental noise and interference. And with real-time data streaming capabilities, you can analyze and visualize your signals in real-time, making it easier than ever to identify and troubleshoot issues.

Overall, UWB wireless oscilloscope probes represent a game-changing innovation in the test and measurement industry. With their high-frequency capabilities, convenience, and advanced features, they are poised to revolutionize the way engineers and technicians approach signal analysis and measurement. So why settle for less when you can experience the power of UWB wireless oscilloscope probes today?”

[py-bb]

This announcement was just to prepare for the real one coming later: Introduction of the wireless probes. Sneak peek from the announcement:

“Are you tired of dealing with bulky and cumbersome oscilloscope probes that limit your ability to accurately measure high-frequency signals? Look no further than Ultra Wideband (UWB) wireless oscilloscope probes, the latest innovation in the test and measurement industry.

UWB technology uses extremely short pulses to transmit signals, allowing for highly accurate and precise measurements of even the fastest signals. With UWB wireless oscilloscope probes, you can achieve bandwidths up to 110 GHz, enabling you to capture and analyze signals with unprecedented accuracy.

In addition to their high-frequency capabilities, UWB wireless oscilloscope probes offer unparalleled convenience and flexibility. With no wires or cables to worry about, you can easily move around your workspace and take measurements from a distance without compromising accuracy or quality. Plus, with built-in rechargeable batteries, you can take your probes on the go and use them in the field without being tethered to a power source.

UWB wireless oscilloscope probes also offer advanced features such as automatic frequency compensation, which ensures accurate measurements even in the presence of environmental noise and interference. And with real-time data streaming capabilities, you can analyze and visualize your signals in real-time, making it easier than ever to identify and troubleshoot issues.

Overall, UWB wireless oscilloscope probes represent a game-changing innovation in the test and measurement industry. With their high-frequency capabilities, convenience, and advanced features, they are poised to revolutionize the way engineers and technicians approach signal analysis and measurement. So why settle for less when you can experience the power of UWB wireless oscilloscope probes today?”

That's terrible, the wire is a structural support, it's load bearing to keep the probe in some weird place! You can't remove that.

[SiliconWizard]

The next thing is AI-driven probes, we all know that.

[alm]

Exactly, just take a picture of the PCB and the model will generate signals for all the nodes  . An infinite channel scope without any wires!

[coppice]

Exactly, just take a picture of the PCB and the model will generate signals for all the nodes  . An infinite channel scope without any wires!

That might need to be an x-ray picture to probe the faults inside the components.

[SiliconWizard]

Exactly, just take a picture of the PCB and the model will generate signals for all the nodes  . An infinite channel scope without any wires!

That might need to be an x-ray picture to probe the faults inside the components.

Boards will be all virtual.

[Sredni]

The next thing is AI-driven probes, we all know that.

Or alien probes.
But there is no need to be so anal about that.