eevBLAB #83 - DJI Pocket 2 Camera Registration BULLSHIT

[EEVblog]

WTF, you have to register the new DJI Pocket 2 camera with their Mimo app in order to use it or it stops working after five power-ups?!
World Economic Forum - The Great Reset: "You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy"

[ultranalog]

The 5 times trial is the worst, showing that it's perfectly possible to play without signing over your kidney.
This is just screaming for a timer hack.

[Simon]

Right, can we reboot this thread and stop the politics or I will relish banning some people!

[SilverSolder]

So once it has talked with the app...  does it keep working after that (without further app contact), or will it expect to remain connected to the mother ship forever afterwards?

[EEVblog]

So once it has talked with the app...  does it keep working after that (without further app contact), or will it expect to remain connected to the mother ship forever afterwards?

Haven't heard yet. I'm not going to do it to find out.

[schmitt trigger]

Oh, the humanity!!

[Ed.Kloonk]

Did it at any stage use the phone to pull down a firmware update?

[EEVblog]

Did it at any stage use the phone to pull down a firmware update?

I refused to plug it into the phone.

[tszaboo]

I think the EU should step in, and create a label for products. They are getting really good at this, kicking corporations in the teeth for their anti-consumer business practices.

Products that need constant internet connection, even though it is not obvious.
Products that need registration for full functionality.
That have a closed ecosystem, and no third party integration.

I can already see the coffee machine, that refuses to give coffee in the morning without internet and registration.

[Simon]

There should indeed be regulations about exploitative practices, if it's not strictly necessary for the product to function it should not be allowed or should not be made a condition of using the product.

[Retep]

One of the issues I have with "connected" devices I have is that the manufacturer can terminate the service at any time rendering the product useless or only partially functional. There are already quite a few cases where that has happened. If a product requires an external service for the product to be fully functional (for good reason or not), it should be made very clear in advance how long that service is going to be provided.

[Simon]

The problem is that they will always reserve the right to terminate the service when they see fit and put that in the service agreement contract. That is why it needs regulations around it. Goods have to be made to a reasonable standard and have mandated warranties but that is not the same as guaranteeing that they won't shut off whatever lifeline service that product depends on and they still may not have broken any existing laws.

[SilverSolder]

Lawmakers are definitely behind the curve - obviously you would expect them to be followers rather than leaders, but...

[Simon]

Lawmakers are definitely behind the curve - obviously you would expect them to be followers rather than leaders, but...

that is always the case which is why UK firework laws tell you all about the size of the rocket but not the stick that will fall back to the ground meaning that you can legally buy a firework with a 1.2m stick on it weighing 85g that will plumet back to earth.

[Retep]

IANAL, but I guess if a manufacturer decides to terminate a required service rendering a product partially or fully inoperable within the warranty period or within the lifetime of the product one could reasonably assume, the manufacturer would have a problem from the legal point of view in many countries.

What I would like is more awareness & openness about the dependency of external services required for the (full) functionality of the product. If manufacturers are forced to clearly state in the open "this product will cease to function after 2020" in their advertisements, product specifications...etc (not just somewhere hidden in a service agreement), I think fewer people would be encouraged to buy that product today. This leaves the manufacturer with the choice of a long term commitment to provide the required service or design the product in such a way it doesn't require an external service.

[Simon]

i think the problem is that the customer is working under two different agreements. One is that they bought a product that as a physical item should work for some time with warranty and the other is the provision of service agreement that they will say is separate from the product if they possibly can. The law needs to be clear that the two cannot be separated.

[DEV001]

This review on Amazon really goes into detail about some of the negatives with the product and it mentions the activation issue. DJI's response is quite interesting, they act like it is a tamper indicator for a 'new' vs. used unit. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R1RB40E5XU8UL5/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B08J7FL57P#R1RB40E5XU8UL5

DJI Support MANUFACTURER Response:

The zoom is digital on DJI Pocket 2. And Pocket 2 needs to be activated, and you can verify if it is a new product by whether activation is needed or not. When connecting Pocket 2 with the mobile device via the Do-It-All handle, you can connect it within the DJI Mimo app, then the password is not needed. If there are any issues with the audio or using Pocket 2, please feel free to contact our support by clicking my profile, we will do our best to help.

[EEVblog]

I tried to return it as faulty and got this response:

We would like to try and help you solve your problem before returning the item back to us.
Here is what you can do:

- Please back up all your DATA and try to do a HARD(FACTORY) RESET on the item to see if it can help to solve the problem(s).

- Look for updated software/firmware on manufacturer’s website.

In order to expedite your claim, please provide VIDEO LINK (you may upload and provide us the link, e.g. Dropbox / Google drive) of the issue for our technician to see.
Please get back to us within warranty period if your problems still exist.

Should you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Should have chosen the 14 day money back guarantee option instead of "faulty". Trying to be clever making a statement doesn't work it seems...

[Ed.Kloonk]

I tried to return it as faulty and got this response:

We would like to try and help you solve your problem before returning the item back to us.
Here is what you can do:

- Please back up all your DATA and try to do a HARD(FACTORY) RESET on the item to see if it can help to solve the problem(s).

- Look for updated software/firmware on manufacturer’s website.

In order to expedite your claim, please provide VIDEO LINK (you may upload and provide us the link, e.g. Dropbox / Google drive) of the issue for our technician to see.
Please get back to us within warranty period if your problems still exist.

Should you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Should have chosen the 14 day money back guarantee option instead of "faulty". Trying to be clever making a statement doesn't work it seems...

Mate, I'd be exploring the fit for purpose route.

[Habropoda]

Their next step is to stream mandatory ads onto your fancy camera.

[EEVblog]

I tried to return it as faulty and got this response:

We would like to try and help you solve your problem before returning the item back to us.
Here is what you can do:

- Please back up all your DATA and try to do a HARD(FACTORY) RESET on the item to see if it can help to solve the problem(s).

- Look for updated software/firmware on manufacturer’s website.

In order to expedite your claim, please provide VIDEO LINK (you may upload and provide us the link, e.g. Dropbox / Google drive) of the issue for our technician to see.
Please get back to us within warranty period if your problems still exist.

Should you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Should have chosen the 14 day money back guarantee option instead of "faulty". Trying to be clever making a statement doesn't work it seems...

Mate, I'd be exploring the fit for purpose route.

I explained that too them in the first request. Have now repeated that.
My mistake was that now it's in the return pipeline for "faulty" products. They have a very rigid return process with multiple paths.
Will see what happens.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I tried to return it as faulty and got this response:

We would like to try and help you solve your problem before returning the item back to us.
Here is what you can do:

- Please back up all your DATA and try to do a HARD(FACTORY) RESET on the item to see if it can help to solve the problem(s).

- Look for updated software/firmware on manufacturer’s website.

In order to expedite your claim, please provide VIDEO LINK (you may upload and provide us the link, e.g. Dropbox / Google drive) of the issue for our technician to see.
Please get back to us within warranty period if your problems still exist.

Should you have further questions, please feel free to let us know.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Should have chosen the 14 day money back guarantee option instead of "faulty". Trying to be clever making a statement doesn't work it seems...

Mate, I'd be exploring the fit for purpose route.

I explained that too them in the first request. Have now repeated that.
My mistake was that now it's in the return pipeline for "faulty" products. They have a very rigid return process with multiple paths.
Will see what happens.

I'm more surprised that nobody from the company has bothered to reach out. Whilst I realise it's 2nd channel, the chap that runs purism was prepared to hop on a jet and appease a youtuber at his home who had a gripe and that was for a non-existent (pre-prod) product.

Companies such as these who think Aust consumer law is optional don't deserve to be granted permission to participate in the Aust marketplace.

[Fungus]

Send it back. Buy a GoPro. Job done.

GoPros don't need all that mechanical gimbal rubbish to keep things steady.

Or option 2: Get an old phone, do a factory reset, register it on there over WiFi. It's unlikely to work out though because it'll keep nagging you to connect that phone and you don't want to carry a second phone around just to use your camera.

[thm_w]

Send it back. Buy a GoPro. Job done.

GoPros don't need all that mechanical gimbal rubbish to keep things steady.

Or option 2: Get an old phone, do a factory reset, register it on there over WiFi. It's unlikely to work out though because it'll keep nagging you to connect that phone and you don't want to carry a second phone around just to use your camera.

Have you ever seen DJI videos? Maybe there is some way to do this in software, but with the DJI the "untouched" footage is great. You get much smoother transitions/rotations.

[SilverSolder]

Wait for GoPro to copy the design, and hopefully not make the same mistake?

[Fungus]

Have you ever seen DJI videos? Maybe there is some way to do this in software, but with the DJI the "untouched" footage is great. You get much smoother transitions/rotations.

What's up with that video? Something's wrong.

Just look at the washed out colors on the GoPro. Everybody else on the entire internet complains of the exact opposite - too much color.

(Note the "Flat" overlays in the on-screen text, I'm guessing he's turned on "Flat" color mode in the GoPro's ProTune(tm) settings then hasn't bothered to color correct it in post).



As for the Gimbal stabilization vs. software? There's hardly any difference shown there, despite him claiming otherwise. Try turning off his voice and watching it again: GoPro is better in some, DJI is better in others.

(The "face tracking" on the DJI also gives some horrible movements).

Sound? Not much in it either.

nb. I'm not saying either is better, I'm saying that video needs a large pinch of salt.

[thm_w]

As for the Gimbal stabilization vs. software? There's hardly any difference shown there, despite him claiming otherwise. Try turning off his voice and watching it again: GoPro is better in some, DJI is better in others.

Didn't listen to sound or look at picture, those may be worse, all I looked at was the stabilization and panning smoothness.
Its just not possible to achieve the same effect on a gopro without additional equipment (steady rest or whatever).

Its probably going to be more obvious in a moving video like this:
https://youtu.be/kXIbSF6XLkY?t=140

[Fungus]

I've been looking at the DJI some more. It does seem like a more capable camera overall although quite a bit more expensive after you've added enough accessories to make it worth owning.

[schmitt trigger]

Didn't listen to sound or look at picture, those may be worse, all I looked at was the stabilization and panning smoothness.

Its probably going to be more obvious in a moving video like this:
https://youtu.be/kXIbSF6XLkY?t=140

Absolutely correct.
In an “action” camera, the actual pixel count or frame rate or color balance is moot, if watching the video makes you queasy.

[Fungus]

Didn't listen to sound or look at picture, those may be worse, all I looked at was the stabilization and panning smoothness.

Its probably going to be more obvious in a moving video like this:
https://youtu.be/kXIbSF6XLkY?t=140

Absolutely correct.
In an “action” camera, the actual pixel count or frame rate or color balance is moot, if watching the video makes you queasy.

That's down to the algorithms used, not the camera hardware.

(I'm not sure how this has turned into a "software" vs. "hardware" debate. The DJI's gimbal uses stepper motors controlled by software and the GoPro has accelerometers/gyros inside it to detect movements. The GoPro really has the edge here as it can remove up/down/left/right movements that a gimbal can't).

PS: I see that DJI has non-replaceable battery. Hope you're not still planning to use it a few years from now.

[Fungus]

[tocsa120ls]

US government adds DJI to commerce blacklist over ties to Chinese government:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/18/22188789/dji-ban-commerce-entity-list-drone-china-transaction-blocked?fbclid=IwAR1LYkWTdcxR4fv7i2HsBEglezuCqmofPtsIgW8MX1sckPU0OC5KmCUQTMs

Can't say I'm sad or even surprised.

[Fungus]

Just gonna update:

I bought one of these a couple of days ago. I was just about to pull the trigger on a camera when Dave posted this.

The choice wasn't based on stabilization, more on image quality and the ability to use external mikes, etc.

The one I got was the "Creator's Combo" which is really necessary, IMHO. Without it there's no WiFi, no mic input and you're forced to attach it to your phone via a flimsy USB dongle which looks like it could break at any moment (yes they sell brackets to support the phone next to the camera but you still have to take your phone out of its case and the whole system is terrible).

The Creators Combo costs more but it has a lot of useful stuff in it: Wireless mic, a little tripod, wide angle lens, mini joystick, plenty of stuff I'd also have to add to a GoPro anyway if I went that way and would probably cost more overall than the DJI.

Anyway: I made the decision based more on image quality, it hasn't disappointed in my tests. It's also a 64 megapixel still camera whereas GoPros are useless for stills.

On the plus side, I've discovered a whole bunch of stuff that I hadn't thought about, eg. The gimbal doesn't just work for image stabilization, you can set up the camera on its tripod and pan it around remotely from your phone.

Most reviewers complain about the case but it's very well thought out. eg. The screw hole that they all shrug and mutter over is for actually for carrying your tripod around. The hole at the other end it for attaching the wireless mic. The wide angle lens has a little magnetic clip inside it, as do the USB dongles.

Bottom line: I'm pleased I got it instead of the GoPro, although I think the GoPro is still a far better choice if you want to attach it to a skateboard and abuse it.

Edit: Here it is in the case with all the toys attached.

[Mr. Scram]

Send it back. Buy a GoPro. Job done.

GoPros don't need all that mechanical gimbal rubbish to keep things steady.

Or option 2: Get an old phone, do a factory reset, register it on there over WiFi. It's unlikely to work out though because it'll keep nagging you to connect that phone and you don't want to carry a second phone around just to use your camera.

GoPro is barely any better. The app needed for many advanced features requires an account and internet connection. They introduced that requirement with the intent of collecting your data.

[Mr. Scram]

Just gonna update:

I bought one of these a couple of days ago. I was just about to pull the trigger on a camera when Dave posted this.

The choice wasn't based on stabilization, more on image quality and the ability to use external mikes, etc.

The one I got was the "Creator's Combo" which is really necessary, IMHO. Without it there's no WiFi, no mic input and you're forced to attach it to your phone via a flimsy USB dongle which looks like it could break at any moment (yes they sell brackets to support the phone next to the camera but you still have to take your phone out of its case and the whole system is terrible).

The Creators Combo costs more but it has a lot of useful stuff in it: Wireless mic, a little tripod, wide angle lens, mini joystick, plenty of stuff I'd also have to add to a GoPro anyway if I went that way and would probably cost more overall than the DJI.

Anyway: I made the decision based more on image quality, and it hasn't disappointed yet.

On the plus side, I've discovered a whole bunch of stuff that I hadn't thought about, eg. The gimbal doesn't just work for image stabilization, you can set up the camera on its tripod and pan it around remotely from your phone.

Most reviewers complain about the case but it's very well thought out. eg. The screw hole that they all shrug and mutter over is for actually for carrying your tripod around. The hole at the other end it for attaching the wireless mic. The wide angle lens has a little magnetic clip inside it, as do the USB dongles.

Bottom line: I'm pleased I got it instead of the GoPro, although I think the GoPro is still a far better choice if you want to attach it to a skateboard and abuse it.

I have trouble understanding why you'd be advocating for this junk without addressing the issues this all started with. You can't use it without an uplink to the mothership. Image quality and stability are all for naught if it's a piece of crap from a company with little respect for its customers.

[Fungus]

I have trouble understanding why you'd be advocating for this junk without addressing the issues this all started with. You can't use it without an uplink to the mothership. Image quality and stability are all for naught if it's a piece of crap from a company with little respect for its customers.

It's the way of the world. Pretty soon it'll be this or no cameras at all. There's NO WAY that manufacturers won't be doing it.

(unless some very strict new laws are passed)

FWIW I have an old phone with no SIM card for this sort of crap. Not my real account and network access is WiFi only.

That's what I registered it on, that's what I'll use it with when I need remote control.

[Fungus]

GoPro is barely any better. The app needed for many advanced features requires an account and internet connection.

Yep, anything beyond basic features seems to only be available via the app.

[Mr. Scram]

It's the way of the world. Pretty soon it'll be this or no cameras at all. There's NO WAY that manufacturers won't be doing it.

(unless some very strict new laws are passed)

FWIW I have an old phone with no SIM card for this sort of crap. Not my real account and network access is WiFi only.

That's what I registered it on, that's what I'll use it with when I need remote control.

It's the way of the world if you bend and let companies have their way. Consumers ultimately decide, just like Dave is doing here. Vote with your wallet. Taking the path of least resistance and selling your soul for a shiny trinket is tempting. We all like trinkets and we don't like trouble. Just realize you'll end up in a hell of your own devising with no easy options or ways out any more. You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.

Don't be naive about what's collected either. A modern smartphone is primarily a data gathering device and an internet connection ties you to your environment in all kinds of ways. Smartphones constantly surveil and map your environment for network and Bluetooth signals, along with other behavioural patterns. It's trivial to deduce what your other devices are and is what makes some industries a lot of money. You are being profiled and you'll be happy.

[Fungus]

That's what I registered it on, that's what I'll use it with when I need remote control.

It's the way of the world if you bend and let companies have their way.

Have you seen kids today? They just install every last app without thinking. Even oldsters have told me they've got "nothing to hide".

I assure you that Dave returning his camera (if that's really what he did) will make zero difference to DJI. You want to make a difference? Campaign for new laws.

(which do seem to be coming, slowly...especially here in Europe)

[SilverSolder]

That's what I registered it on, that's what I'll use it with when I need remote control.

It's the way of the world if you bend and let companies have their way.

Have you seen kids today? They just install every last app without thinking. Even oldsters have told me they've got "nothing to hide".

I assure you that Dave returning his camera (if that's really what he did) will make zero difference to DJI. You want to make a difference? Campaign for new laws.

(which do seem to be coming, slowly...especially here in Europe)

There seems to be an awakening currently in the EU, USA, and China, that "big tech" is getting too big for its boots.

[Mr. Scram]

Have you seen kids today? They just install every last app without thinking. Even oldsters have told me they've got "nothing to hide".

I assure you that Dave returning his camera (if that's really what he did) will make zero difference to DJI. You want to make a difference? Campaign for new laws.

(which do seem to be coming, slowly...especially here in Europe)

Don't blame "kids" for your behaviour, or for waving away of personal responsibility and accountability. Saying you don't have a choice and it wouldn't matter is fatalist and lazy nonsense. One could argue the same for littering or other detrimental behaviour and few would agree. Not to mention that research shows that younger generations actually do care about privacy and that they take an interest in the world they'll have to live in for a while to come. Different survey draw somewhat different conclusions but they all seem to agree youngsters don't care less than older generations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/digital-privacy-surveillance-facebook-young-australians/9179240

[Fungus]

...waving away of personal responsibility and accountability.

It must be nice to live in a world where you always get to choose and aren't ever constrained by necessity or budget.

Dave could do a followup about what camera he chose instead. Let us know the alternatives out there.