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I think this change is going to affect me. If I can't see any reference that a video might be misleading and full of crap and is on top of the list by the good ratings then the platform is going to useless to me. I will never use or join video or shopping site with no negative feedback as a matter of principle as I wouldn't trust it. I might go into such a video site if I am looking for something specific though that I know is going to be good now and again but I haven't noticed any site with no dislikes as of yet.
Well if that happens I might be wanting to leave Youtube Premium.
It seems I can't even post my own opinion in that subsection:
QuoteMatt Kova
2:52 You are going to get use to it pretty quickly
Opinions and assumptions and sounds to me like he's being very condescendinglike you talking down to a child treating them in a stupid manner (like they are somewhat "thick") trying to get them to do something they don't want to do.
I will not get use to have details hidden away from me and I find that insulting.QuoteMatt Kova
What other platform? Or did he think of that one out of thin air?
and keep in mind other platforms don't even have a Dislike buttonWell here is my opinion he sounds like a liar to me and maybe more to the story.I have never seen a video platform before with only positive feedback please but correct me if you think I am wrong. I have seen one review site (review.io?) somewhere where I 'd thought it was missing the negative feedback but it was actually in different place. Crossed a few lines out. I am sorry I think I have over reacted there.
Update to YouTube's dislike count
202,752 views 10/11/21
YouTube Creators
15k thumbs down and 6.3k thumbs up.
Now that must say something.
I think one solution they could try is to only allow the viewer to leave any kind of rating after watching a duration or a percent of it and someone mentioned in EEVBLOG IRC "Watcher" to put a cap in place whether that'd be on the viewers or the content.
See the disapproval mounting on that video by the 1000's every couple of hours or so:Quote11/11/21 20:57 Views: 552135 Comments: 40096 UP: 8.5k DOWN: 33k Ratio: 1:3
12/11/21 23:46 Views: 964635 Comments: 68049 UP: 10k DOWN: 61k Ratio: 1:6.1
13/11/21 22:22 Views: 1210553 Comments: 81138 UP: 12k DOWN: 85k Ratio: 1:7.08
14/11/21 23:44 Views: 1377644 Comments: 86167 UP: 13k DOWN: 110k Ratio: 1:8.46
15/11/21 22:14 Views: 1472492 Comments: 91799 UP: 13k DOWN: 132k Ratio: 1:10.15
16/11/21 20:46 Views: 1538537 Comments: 95834 UP: 14k DOWN: 152k Ratio: 1:10.857
17/11/21 01:48 Views: 1562046 Comments: 97034 UP: 14k DOWN: 157k Ratio: 1:11.2 out ratioed by 10+
18/11/21 01:20 Views: 1673418 Comments: 101523 UP: 15k DOWN: 180k Ratio: 1:12
Using a browser profile: with older cache that shows the stats
19/11/21 00:51 Views: 1778663 Comments: 109001 UP: 15k DOWN: 201K Ratio 13:8.75
20/11/21 20:49 Views: 1939134 Comments: 101139 UP: 16k DOWN: 240K Ratio 1:15
21/11/21 00:27 Views: 1948765 Comments: 117564 UP: 16k DOWN: 243K Ratio 1:15.187
Only showing one stat per day to keep the post smaller. -
Unsolved Mystery: The USS Pompano Submarine #TeamSeasQuote
SC4608 B 2 hours ago
It's really a shame that YouTube used you as a "nice guy" for their agenda. I'm sorry Matt, I sincerely hope the paycheck they gave you will be worth it when you step back and really think about what they are doing. They aren't doing this for the "small channels" and "safety" and it's apparent from the reaction from across the platform that the majority of users know that.
VIRUSSS1986 1 hour ago
Why feel sorry for a representative of the oldest profession?
Matt Koval 53 minutes ago
I get how it can seem that way, but I actually volunteered to communicate it to you guys as a part of my job, because I felt that hiding the counter would be helpful (I know, not the most popular opinion). Otherwise it would have just been a faceless blog post announcing it - which I dunno, maybe you'd prefer. But creators have hated that sort of communication in the past.
So if he "feels" something he can pretty much do what he likes with Youtube because he thinks he is somewhat self entitled to do so apart of his job to make assumptions for everybody and how they are going to feel afterwards.
Removed my comment in response to one he replied to.
I had a "feeling" this might happen.
Click any rating and no counters on that particular video:
His other videos had the counters on the feedback:
QuoteUnsolved Mystery: The USS Pompano Submarine #TeamSeas
29 Oct 2021 5,859 views
Thumbs up or down Hidden
my gray hair. 😭👨🏻🦳 #shorts
11 Sept 2021 3,777 views
UP 121 DOWN 78
The SECRET to Michael Phelps' SPEED?? #Shorts #olympics #swimming
5 Aug 2021 2,546 views
UP 174 DOWN 39
rare old outtakes from The Fuplers! 😂
17 Jul 2021 1,990 views
UP 211 DOWN 44
the Fuplers REVEALED #shorts
2 Jul 2021 1,961 views
UP: 153 DOWN: 21
Seat Belt Safety Has Gone Too Far
30 Mar 2019 3,924 views
UP 262 DOWN 47
How to Make a Time Machine - with Video
9,578 views12 Jan 2019
UP 577 DOWN 26
Shame I had nothing against the man until he pulled this off.
His content doesn't appeal me not that's it bad to me but the feedback seemed consistent I can't see any abuse or such on his channel or videos.
I am waiting for the counters to be removed and Premium is finished for me and I'll look at paying more attention to the other video sharing platforms. -
I've just been on YouTube and the changeover seems to have taken place, this is what you get when companies are run by people who only ask those who agree with them for comment.
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You know this is so WRONG!
The statistics SPEAK for themselves. I still see it and this is now:
He is ignoring the statistics that 3/4 who voted are not happy with this change.
41,000 viewers can't be wrong on this.
Maybe someone could start a campaign on say Change.org to vote out this arrogant know it all "creator" (possibly won't happen anyway) who sounds to me like he is so better than everyone else that he knows the viewers better than they know themselves from everything he has said so far.
Out of touch with viewers and I am not sure if he was bribed or "lobbied" into it which that I have been reading.
On his profile there I don't see any channels, playlists or much to indicate that he does.
https://www.youtube.com/c/MattKoval/channels
12/10/21 05:35
Thumbs UP: 9.4K DOWN: 42K -
Those counters are a bad compromise to begin with, because they are a substitute for a well thought through reply/comment, everything that needs to be reported is outside this scope anyway (minus the people that abuse the report function).
Of course i do give a quick thumbs up if i like the content to somehow show that i would like to see more of that, otoh i am sure creators would prefer to read an actual comment that expresses it more than that, but in both cases there is probably nothing to argue. If i however disagree with the content or just don't like the horrible presentation or a single issue out of all those talked about don't seem to line up with me, i would be required to write a comment to explain what it is to be fair and that's where that dilemma starts, i would need to take effort for something i don't like, criticize someone publicly although they put hours of work into it or it is just a result of my own misunderstanding. The dislike button seems to solve these problems, but just increases confusion.
IMHO trying to extrapolate specific information out of those counters is a mistake most of the time. E.g. a video with factual errors but high viewership approval would have a misleading counter as would a video stating truths but with a high disapproval rate because people do not like the facts presented or think the video should not be in their feed. Wouldn't be a problem if there was no such counter and people would actually need to write a comment and someone would read them. (I'm naive
)
But youtube is an attention economy, not all devices are suitable to do more than a like or dislike (i.e. TV) and any metric was put there for advertisers and creators to have something to argue about or somehow estimate a value from it. Which would work until it is weaponized, faked or misjudged; and it is always just a question of time if something is weaponized, faked or misjudged. Even comments...
If youtube decides to remove it i don't see a big harm to the community, the problematic judgment derived from it was probably ill-fated anyway. Because people that correctly understand the meaning of their approval rating will eventually "self-correct" and produce upcoming videos in a way that works for them - or they don't give a sh*t if it works for them too, but hiding the counter will not attract more viewers.
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I am for reforming the feedback system without hiding the counters from the customer.
10/12/2021 15:32 UP: 10K DOWN: 52K
Maybe auto vote from the first comment first (so thumbs up or down on the first comment of a viewer would reflect on the counter) and in a way the content creator can trace and see the first comments with the votes as to why they got a thumbs up or down. If it is abuse or just silliness (non rational explanation) then they could contest to get removed.
12/11/21 20:23 UP: 10K DOWN: 57K
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As someone pointed out in the comments, if they actually put the like/dislike rating on the video preview photos, of course this would influence whether people click to watch the video or not.
It could be converted to a percent rating, eg 50/50 likes dislikes is 50% rating.Those counters are a bad compromise to begin with, because they are a substitute for a well thought through reply/comment, everything that needs to be reported is outside this scope anyway (minus the people that abuse the report function).
Sorry no one is reading hundreds or thousands of comments to get an idea what people think of a video.
That's like saying IMDB movie ratings are a bad compromise. -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59264070Quote
YouTube removing dislike 'discourages trolls' but 'unhelpful for users'
BBC Newsbeat 5pm
Kenzo says it can be "daunting" to post a video on YouTube and not know how it's going to be received
YouTube users will no longer see how many dislikes a video has got.
The platform says it's made the change to protect users from "dislike bombing" and to reduce "stress and embarrassment" for creators. Dislike bombing is when there is a coordinated move for people to dislike a video to put off potential viewers. Some content creators have told Radio 1 Newsbeat the move is "not very helpful", but others say it might help their mental health. The change hasn't been rolled out fully yet - and YouTube's announcement of the move has had 53,000 dislikes so far. Content creators will still be able to see the total dislikes for their own videos. 'Discouraging trolls' "It will discourage a lot of trolling and a lot of mean-spirited people on the internet that want to try to put down other people's creative work," says rapper Kenzo Jae.
The 18-year-old uni student, from Bradford, promotes his music on YouTube and only has about 200 subscribers. It's small-scale content creators like Kenzo that YouTube says will be most protected by its decision to hide dislike totals. Kenzo says he can feel "apprehension" about what the reception to his videos might be, and that removing the dislike totals might help creators' mental health.
Then disable the ratings?Quote"You might put your heart and soul into something and then it doesn't come out the way you want it to with likes or dislikes - that can be disheartening," he says.
"On my Instagram account I've taken all likes off and it's really helped with not caring about the amount of people liking it."
YouTube tested out hiding the dislike total from users earlier this year and says it's been shown to reduce co-ordinated attacks by online trolls who work together to rack up huge dislike tallies on people's content. Some people can still see the dislike totals but YouTube is gradually rolling out the new feature, so that won't last much longer. 'Dislikes stop clickbait' Many users have said they'll miss the dislike totals. There are loads of comments saying "RIP dislikes" on one of YouTube's most-disliked videos ever, a clip by YouTube star PewDiePie that got 5.6m dislikes after he called on fans to dislike it. Chris Burton says he'll miss the totals as they "can be really helpful" for users to avoid clickbait. "You want to immediately know how good the video is, before you watch it," the 27-year-old from Hampshire says. "A lot of the time, you can't trust the title or thumbnail. If you see a tutorial video and it's got almost all dislikes, you know it's not going to help you." Chris runs the channel Half-Asleep Chris where he takes part in positive projects like litter picking and making giant Lego tracks.
He says he "struggles to see" how YouTube's decision protects him from stress, because he'll still be able to see the total as a creator. Chris says seeing the tally of dislikes on other people's videos helps him decide whether to watch them or not Chris says it "certainly gets rid of the bullying aspect" of "dislike bombing", but adds: "I don't think that's the way 99% of people use the dislike button."
He says he's happy with the tools YouTube already provides to stop online bullies.
"It already auto-blocks a lot of hateful comments which is fantastic. It holds them for review, and they don't go live unless I manually click them." As well as hiding some or all comments, creators have pointed out a feature already exists to hide likes and dislikes, which YouTubers can activate if they want to.
Some people have questioned whether or not YouTube made the move because the most-disliked video ever on the platform happens to be one of their own. YouTube Rewind 2018 has over 19 million dislikes, compared with three million likes. YouTube says this isn't why the change has been made.
For me, I wouldn't say it is unhelpful, I myself find it already unhelpful trying to search for stuff even with the Premium membership, I have to adjust the search filter otherwise for one example I see suggestions to paid "virtually owned" movies in which I'd want the physical copy. I think it'll be more like a hindrance.
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I didn't wanted to discuss this in the comment section, because it is not safe for your account. Dave you should consider your income sources before talking ill from Youtube. It is not right, but they can make your channel disappear if they think.
This is happening because THE MESSAGE is now more important than making profit. Leftist woke SJW have completely overtaken Hollywood and Big tech. I honestly don't care about the politics behind it. I hate everyone who tries to tell me what I have to think. I hated when it was Moscow telling how to think, I hated when it was my own country's politicians telling me, and I hate it when its the internet turning against the people.
And they censor, delete, ban everyone who doesn't agree with them. And when they release crap like the Ghostbusters 2016, and get 1 Million dislikes on the trailer video: They know that it is hurting the box office. IMDB removed the review section, I would say it is just a question of time before they delete the ratings.
Or youtube taking away the income source of creators because they are using words. Damn word policing, like its 1984.
Democracy, free speech, and the like was nice while it lasted. 30 years or so for me. -
I read some of the favorable comments on that video, most were like" I've been waiting so long for something like this", and check that persons profile, no videos and a member for less than a week.
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Number of likes or dislikes on a video have never ever been to me a decisive factor to watch or not to watch it. Frankly, i do not see what is this fuzz about. Anyone with a brain does not need that external 'help' . Just my opinion. For creators to use it as feedback - i agree it is useful. But YT does not take it from them. So, meh.
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I see someone has already started a campaign on change.org to restore the negative counters:
https://www.change.org/p/google-inc-bring-back-the-youtube-dislike-count/c
I'd thought I'd start one up of my own:
https://www.change.org/p/youtube-vote-out-matt-koval-from-youtube-creators-group?utm_content -
Sorry no one is reading hundreds or thousands of comments to get an idea what people think of a video.
Sure, wont happen, but it's the only way to reduce ambiguity.QuoteThat's like saying IMDB movie ratings are a bad compromise.
Because they are a bad compromise - in a context in which you are catered videos based on the platforms algorithm. Like sending moviegoers that want to see action to a drama movie. Would the rating reflect something significant in that case?
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IMDB removed the review section, I would say it is just a question of time before they delete the ratings.
No, many of these companies run into the problems their approach for user generated content has caused (and enabled their rise as well). Basically it is systemic lack of content moderation or understanding that it means there are paid full time jobs required and when a broader public discovers it, it is a question of time until serious harm is caused here or there. Then the backlash from that causes the radical changes or just the prediction that it will happen at some time.
I hope it is obvious why content needs to be moderated. The bad stuff does not go away by ignoring it or believing that it is only happening somewhere else.
I don't see where competitors solve this just by being less popular, but trying to gain popularity basically the same way?!
The terms of service are binding to everyone and cost you nothing, but when it comes to damages or loss of income it means there is one contract per user which can sue in some form and a certain percentage will sue, giving them the same legal problems that lead to the same decisions those competitors now claim to not take.
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I wonder if I made mistake somewhere I did I check actual screenshots.Quote
13/11/21 22:22 Views: 1210553 Comments: 81138 UP: 12k DOWN: 85k 1:7.08
Removing comments are they or did I mess that up somewhere?
13/11/21 00:24 Views: 1230246 Comments: 80276 UP: 12k DOWN: 87k 1:7.25
See attachments:
13/11/21 20:15 Views: 1186869 Comments: 80323 UP: 12k DOWN: 83k 1:6.66 (NOT SIGNED IN and away from home)
13/11/21 23:27 Views: 1219815 Comments: 79899 UP: 12k DOWN: 86k 1:7.16
So it looks like they are indeed culling the comments now whether that means the actual comments or counter.
How can (81138-80276)= 862 + 424 above = 1286 comments and god knows how many more comments they might have removed violate Youtube policy at the same time?
That seems a lot.
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Well, dislike counts still appear over here. Dunno if they're still gonna remove that, or if there is a delay, or if it depends on region?
The YT Creators video announcing that happens to have gotten 110k dislikes and 13k likes.
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It's not often I get comments on my comments but the comment activity in that video looks quite intensive at the moment.
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Just as a suggestion for Dave:
Stop linking to your Youtube Videos here in the forum. Link to Odysey, or whatever other platform. While i do not know how many hits the forum links actually get, it may bring the alternatives into more focus. -
Interesting. For me (here in Austria), they’ve switched to „I Don’t like it“ on the 13th.
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Got another reply during the stats posts
Some extension to reveal the dislikes built for Firefox but shows a way of making it work on Chrome:
SEE YOUTUBE DISLIKES AGAIN (WEB EXTENSION, READ DESC)
15/11/21 Kitir
I'll experiment when it disappears but by that time I've already lost faith made plans and they'd possibly find out about the extension soon enough and fix it for themselves.
Forgot to leave link to the extension:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-dislikes-revealer/
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Just saw the change and I have sadly just cancelled the Premium subscription and abandoned the profile. Not taking my money let the ads pay for it in my opinion. Not willing back any platform that behaves like that. I don't want be lied to and manipulated by Youtube staff and the statistics they set and that "I'll quickly get use to it". Nope.
Last stat: 18/11/21 06:58 Views: 1687774 Comments: 101139 UP: 15k DOWN: 184K Ratio 1:12.26
Noticed on their helpful Google blog that they do have helpful and unhelpful with counters on their posts but they also have UPVOTE buttons with counters but no DOWNVOTE button. I wonder how long that has been going for on and whether they have been trying to extend this onto Youtube.
I am not willing to mess about trying to see the counters with extension above.
I think it is only going to get worse once they start doing things like this.
Going to take a look at the other video platforms later. -
Dislike counter is now gone here.
Number of likes or dislikes on a video have never ever been to me a decisive factor to watch or not to watch it. Frankly, i do not see what is this fuzz about. Anyone with a brain does not need that external 'help' . Just my opinion. For creators to use it as feedback - i agree it is useful. But YT does not take it from them. So, meh.
It was used as a feedback for movie trailers like Ghostbusters 2016. And if you disagree with The Message, or just don't like the movie, simply because it is not funny, you are labeled a misogynistic naci. People's opinion was hurting Hollywood's income, so your opinion shall not be visible anymore. Be it, deleting comments, shadow banning your YT channel, or any other method. And some people just cannot handle negative feedback, and we as society have to be so catering for them, otherwise those little snowflakes would crumble. -
some people just cannot handle negative feedback, and we as society have to be so catering for them, otherwise those little snowflakes would crumble.
I think if they are going to hide the stats from the viewer they should also hide it from the content creator but that sounds to me just as ridiculous. -
I'm confused now, I'm sure it was gone but it seems to be back? I just watched EEVblog 1438 - The TOP 5 Jellybean Regulators & References and it's got a dislike count.
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I'm confused now, I'm sure it was gone but it seems to be back? I just watched EEVblog 1438 - The TOP 5 Jellybean Regulators & References and it's got a dislike count.
Trying it on maybe due to the protests but when it goes silent they may continue and I won't believe it until they announce it.
If they announce and promise to bring it back and never ever to do that again then maybe I'll start using my account and restore the Premium subscription.
Oh yes I see....
18/11/21 21:19 Views: 1750595 Comments: 108355 UP: 15k DOWN: 198K Ratio 1:13.2 Ratio, that ratio seems to be going up slowly
I still still don't trust that it will stay without a formal acknowledgement from that that they are going to stop this bullsh*t altogether.
Ah actually no... if I go into another browser profile, clear the cache and the counter stat is hidden.