eevBLAB 97- Is Apple Serious About Right To Repair? (The Verge)

[bd139]

Yeah I genuinely am paying Apple more money to make a lot of problems fuck off so I can use that time to make money.

[Monkeh]

For some cars (and John Deere tractors!) you can't take a used computer controlled subsystem off a wrecked car and use that to repair a still roadworthy vehicle without taking it past a dealer to reprogram the rest of the car to accept the "new" part...   This adds expense and inconvenience to the repair process when carried out by anyone other than a person with access to the official service tools.

Ah, see, in the US they have the.. right to repair cars! Anyone can buy the tools and access to the software to perform that programming on a per-vehicle basis, along with access to the documentation (factory and rewritten). Sure, there's a cost to it, but it's a practical option which is available. Making it reasonably available, for independents as much as individuals, is the whole idea.

[golden_labels]

... and you start asking yourself who actually owns the gadget, tractor or whatever. You're locked in the walled garden of some vendor. Add cognitive dissonance and you even claim that the walled garden is the best thing since sliced bread.

You have just described a feudal system. One is allowed to use land in exchange for returning portion of crops and some services to the lord. And indeed over centuries most people were accepting that. Until around 300 years ago some minority group of freedom extremists gained enough traction to egoistically change things and holds power until today. Many remain unhappy with the change. Of course that brings an important question: is it ethical to force anyone to be free against their will?

Yeah I genuinely am paying Apple more money to make a lot of problems fuck off so I can use that time to make money.

Who is banning you from paying Apple, though? Name them, please? Any source? Something new I never heard about in the right to repair movement.

[bd139]

Yeah I genuinely am paying Apple more money to make a lot of problems fuck off so I can use that time to make money.

Who is banning you from paying Apple, though? Name them, please? Any source? Something new I never heard about in the right to repair movement.

I don't believe the points are even slightly related apart from in your head.

[SilverSolder]

I guess one model doesn't preclude the other?  If you like Apple's full service model, you go with that.  (Most people probably will.)   

If you like messing with your phone, or want to let the local handyman fix your old phone on the cheap, you should be able to do that too.

Where's the problem?


One possible problem is that at least in the US, the (car) service department is now the most profitable part of the dealership!      Is that where phones are headed?

[bd139]

There is no problem with that at all.

The problem is that the complaint keeps changing whenever people get their way or it is explained that the problem has already been solved. They are now complaining that the phone says it was repaired by a handyman on the screen with dubious parts.

I wish my house had one of those screens on it. I might not have bought it in the first place and saved myself a lot of money on remedial work.

[Monkeh]

The problem is that the complaint keeps changing whenever people get their way. They are now complaining that the phone says it was repaired by a handyman on the screen with dubious parts.

As long as they allow those parts to perform their function.. I don't recall seeing cars telling you you can't have cruise control because you put an aftermarket stalk on.

[bd139]

The problem is that the complaint keeps changing whenever people get their way. They are now complaining that the phone says it was repaired by a handyman on the screen with dubious parts.

As long as they allow those parts to perform their function.. I don't recall seeing cars telling you you can't have cruise control because you put an aftermarket stalk on.

Which they do. Nothing is preventing third party parts from working unless it breaks the SIP guarantee which is a security control and thus is immutable.

As for cruise control in cars, yet. Improving safety culture may change that in the future. My cousin was killed by a poorly repaired vehicle.

[Monkeh]

As for cruise control in cars, yet. Improving safety culture may change that in the future. My cousin was killed by a poorly repaired vehicle.

Honestly, we've still got it much better than the US in that regard. The vast majority of repairs are carried out properly, and bad ones will often be caught by MOTs - repairs of structurally damaged vehicles are supposed to be properly assessed. Poor repairs are almost certainly a drop in the ocean compared to the drivers.

[bd139]

Completely agree there. As long as we maintain that rate of improvement.

In all industries!

[SilverSolder]

As for cruise control in cars, yet. Improving safety culture may change that in the future. My cousin was killed by a poorly repaired vehicle.

Honestly, we've still got it much better than the US in that regard. The vast majority of repairs are carried out properly, and bad ones will often be caught by MOTs - repairs of structurally damaged vehicles are supposed to be properly assessed. Poor repairs are almost certainly a drop in the ocean compared to the drivers.

It probably depends on the state, in the US.  An insurance write-off can never have its paperwork "rehabilitated" in some states even if they are repaired professionally.  They forever carry the "damaged repaired" stamp and have a lower value as a result (even if they are perfectly fine cars).

[Monkeh]

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Issue forced. Let's see how Apple handle it, shall we?

1. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld
   videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being
   recharged via wired charging, shall:
   (a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN
        IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part
        1-3: Common components - USB Type-C TM Cable and Connector
        Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;

Emphasis mine.

[themadhippy]

Let's see how Apple handle it

An adaptor  included in the box,its not apples fault if you loose it.
  Im sure we've been here several years ago when all the mobile manufacturers,including apple,  agreed to standardise on  micro usb,guess who was first to ignore the agreement.

[Monkeh]

Let's see how Apple handle it

An adaptor  included in the box,its not apples fault if you loose it.
  Im sure we've been here several years ago when all the mobile manufacturers,including apple,  agreed to standardise on  micro usb,guess who was first to ignore the agreement.

That will not comply. The device itself must have the port.

[CJay]

The Verge just took Apple to task over their new authorised repair tools and manuals and parts as part of Right to Repair. Are they giving Apple a fair suck of the sav?

They've no intention of taking it seriously, they haven't wanted anyone repairing their products since the Lisa and possibly before, using vexatious lawsuits with the sole intent of forcing other businesses out of 'their' market.

[bd139]

Which bit is not taken seriously?

You can get the parts and chose to use the repair kit or not and they buy the old parts back and they will repair it in store or you can mail it in for a repair. And you can get them to send you a replacement out and stick the broken item in a box and send it back.

That is every repair option that actually makes sense covered.

Do you want Tim Cook to personally fluffle your balls when you’re doing the repair?

[Monkeh]

Honestly, I don't think shipping those huge boxes of tools out to individual customers makes sense at all. It's horribly wasteful. Them being available for purchase or long-term rent to independents is the important bit, along with the general availability of parts.

[bd139]

Well it’s there if you want to do a proper job. That’s basically it.

If they didn’t ship them everyone would be hand waving about them making it hard because they only sold the parts and now they have to source tools and oh now they’ve screwed up their phone because they thought they could just do it with a butter knife and some tooth picks.

[CJay]

Which bit is not taken seriously?

You can get the parts and chose to use the repair kit or not and they buy the old parts back and they will repair it in store or you can mail it in for a repair. And you can get them to send you a replacement out and stick the broken item in a box and send it back.

That is every repair option that actually makes sense covered.

Do you want Tim Cook to personally fluffle your balls when you’re doing the repair?

How much do the parts cost if you don't send back the old bits?

How much cheaper is a repair if you do it yourself?

[bd139]

Which bit is not taken seriously?

You can get the parts and chose to use the repair kit or not and they buy the old parts back and they will repair it in store or you can mail it in for a repair. And you can get them to send you a replacement out and stick the broken item in a box and send it back.

That is every repair option that actually makes sense covered.

Do you want Tim Cook to personally fluffle your balls when you’re doing the repair?

How much do the parts cost if you don't send back the old bits?

How much cheaper is a repair if you do it yourself?

More expensive than the knock off shitty parts but reasonable.

Battery replacement kit for my 13 Pro is $71. Includes replacement screws, new gasket, battery. After refund that goes down to $46.

Well you can do the repair yourself using whatever cost tools you have. I have an iFixit toolkit with the required minimum tooling. But I would take it to apple who will replace the whole device for free if they fuck it up during the repair (that actually happened to me in 2018 and they gave me a new iPhone 6s instantly without argument after 23 months of owning it). Or you can risk it yourself. Or risk a third party repairer. Neither of which have that safety net of a warrantied repair.

YMMV but this is where the right to repair falls on it’s arse.

Can order parts here: https://www.selfservicerepair.com/order

To get a battery done in store in the UK is £49-69 depending on model. Takes under two hours.

[CJay]

Which bit is not taken seriously?

You can get the parts and chose to use the repair kit or not and they buy the old parts back and they will repair it in store or you can mail it in for a repair. And you can get them to send you a replacement out and stick the broken item in a box and send it back.

That is every repair option that actually makes sense covered.

Do you want Tim Cook to personally fluffle your balls when you’re doing the repair?

How much do the parts cost if you don't send back the old bits?

How much cheaper is a repair if you do it yourself?

More expensive than the knock off shitty parts but reasonable.

Battery replacement kit for my 13 Pro is $71. Includes replacement screws, new gasket, battery. After refund that goes down to $46.

Well you can do the repair yourself using whatever cost tools you have. I have an iFixit toolkit with the required minimum tooling. But I would take it to apple who will replace the whole device for free if they fuck it up during the repair (that actually happened to me in 2018 and they gave me a new iPhone 6s instantly without argument after 23 months of owning it). Or you can risk it yourself. Or risk a third party repairer. Neither of which have that safety net of a warrantied repair.

YMMV but this is where the right to repair falls on it’s arse.

Can order parts here: https://www.selfservicerepair.com/order

To get a battery done in store in the UK is £49-69 depending on model. Takes under two hours.

Which means they've priced 'right to repair' so it's just not worth doing unless you value your time at $0 per hour and want to bodge up your ~£800 iPhone with 'whatever cost tools' you have instead of hiring their toolkit.

It's not entirely difficult to come to the conclusion that they're intentionally hobbling the service, it's even more obvious when you look at the prices for screens.



 

[bd139]

Only when you compare the price to the third party turds you get from aliexpress and the local market.

Screen on mine is $236 for a 6.1 inch 2532x1170 OLED 460 ppi pixel density with 1200 nits peak brightness and P3 colour space and 120Hz.

I find that quite cheap! Less than a couple of tyres for my car.

And like hell I’d pay that. As my business runs off this phone it’s insured so it costs me £25 if I smash it. They deliver a new one next day and I send the old one back.

People are just looking for shit to be unhappy about.

I’m looking to solve problems and commit to a price and ROI to do that

[SilverSolder]

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220603IPR32196/deal-on-common-charger-reducing-hassle-for-consumers-and-curbing-e-waste

Issue forced. Let's see how Apple handle it, shall we?

1. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld
   videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being
   recharged via wired charging, shall:
   (a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN
        IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part
        1-3: Common components - USB Type-C TM Cable and Connector
        Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;

Emphasis mine.

Very good...   Finally some sense being imposed on the monopoly corporations

[bd139]

Good but I wish something less crap existed than USB-C. It has the worst mechanical interface and one of the most inconsistent electrical interfaces out there.

[CJay]

Only when you compare the price to the third party turds you get from aliexpress and the local market.

The point is that the Apple repair parts are priced so as to make it uneconomical to repair the devices yourself when compared to an official Apple repair and that's not including cost of labout/time.

It's a pretty standard way to keep people out of your market and Apple have been doing it for decades.

I give up though, it's always the same when religious zealots get butthurt that anyone criticises their god and I should know better than to bother.