Author Topic: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good  (Read 111642 times)

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #200 on: July 18, 2017, 07:12:50 pm »
See what you guys did? All this chat about Aneng made me curious about their gear.  :-DMM

My hobby capex of this month wouldn't allow for an 8008, thus I went for its mini-me version and the cable accessory set. Everything less than US$9.00 with ePacket shipping (with tracking #).

I see no CAT ratings claimed i the ad for that meter. If it has no claim of safety, it looks like a cool little meter for the beginning hobbyist to have for his/her low energy experiments. That is, if can be reliable for such a cheap price.

I have no idea if they are using different chips and if one is better, but I would think it would at least be as reliable as a DT830. Looking at the image, maybe the input jacks are even placed better (directly on the PCB) and may last longer if probes are moved around often. That said, I can't say which of the really low end meters (e.g. sub $6) offer best value. This one is the smallest and offers battery measurement, some offer temperature measurement, some offer a backlight but no battery or temperature measurement, and which is safer... who knows. :)

Is there something that should/could be added here?
Nice! It can be modded from the get-go! :)
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #201 on: July 18, 2017, 07:14:12 pm »
Is there something that should/could be added here?

And I wonder what the mystery 8-pin chip is.  :popcorn:
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #202 on: July 18, 2017, 07:27:19 pm »
You'd think they'd choose one with a little bit better soldering for the web store... 



(I'm guessing that trimmer is hand-soldered)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 07:30:15 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline tronde

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #203 on: July 18, 2017, 09:09:26 pm »
I see no CAT ratings claimed i the ad for that meter. If it has no claim of safety, it looks like a cool little meter for the beginning hobbyist to have for his/her low energy experiments. That is, if can be reliable for such a cheap price.

Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. It  has no CAT-ratings, so I will only use it for my arduino.

OR

Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. Let's see how many volts it is in the wall socket.


 :popcorn:
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #204 on: July 18, 2017, 09:22:28 pm »
Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. Let's see how many volts it is in the wall socket.

It's a rite of passage - measure mains AC with a dangerous multimeter!

(hey, at least all the dangerous ranges are on a separate input jack...)

I'm also a fan of the way the screw-together probes in the kit have a little tiny bit of exposed metal at the other end.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 09:32:44 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #205 on: July 18, 2017, 09:26:37 pm »
Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. It  has no CAT-ratings, so I will only use it for my arduino.

I am thoroughly impressed with the Norwegian "beginners", who all know what a CAT rating is.
(And who actively look for a CAT rating, notice its absence, and draw the right conclusions.)  ::)

Come on, a beginner is just as likely to poke at a wall outlet with that unrated meter as with an AN8008. And just as unlikely to electrocute himself doing it.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #206 on: July 18, 2017, 09:35:09 pm »
Come on, a beginner is just as likely to poke at a wall outlet with that unrated meter as with an AN8008. And just as unlikely to electrocute himself doing it.

In the real world both of those are far less likely than using a DT830B.
 

Offline tronde

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #207 on: July 18, 2017, 09:37:29 pm »
Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. It  has no CAT-ratings, so I will only use it for my arduino.

I am thoroughly impressed with the Norwegian "beginners", who all know what a CAT rating is.
(And who actively look for a CAT rating, notice its absence, and draw the right conclusions.)  ::)

Come on, a beginner is just as likely to poke at a wall outlet with that unrated meter as with an AN8008. And just as unlikely to electrocute himself doing it.

I am more impressed by Lightages belief in "the power of CAT-markings".  As you can see, he finds this meter to be suitable for beginners because it has no fake CAT-rating.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #208 on: July 18, 2017, 10:03:48 pm »
Harbor Freight also gives away these beauties. The convenient on/off switch means the selector can literally be in any position when junior connects the probes.



 

Offline tronde

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #209 on: July 18, 2017, 10:22:21 pm »
Harbor Freight also gives away these beauties. The convenient on/off switch means the selector can literally be in any position when junior connects the probes.



That's no problem. It has no CAT-rating, so junior will not use it for anything dangerous. Or have I got it wrong ?
 :popcorn:
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #210 on: July 18, 2017, 11:51:27 pm »

I am more impressed by Lightages belief in "the power of CAT-markings".  As you can see, he finds this meter to be suitable for beginners because it has no fake CAT-rating.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

More putting words in other's mouths, troll.........

You know trolling here, lying about what people say or what their intent is, are reasons for discipline here. Keep it up.....
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #211 on: July 19, 2017, 03:10:51 am »
is everyone that calls you out on anything a 'troll' ? 

Tronde delivers the goods backing up what he types,

why is he a troll and you're not ? 

It borders on forum slander  :--

 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #212 on: July 19, 2017, 03:15:18 am »
If you now understand that there are two different ESD tests, one with the piezo grill ignitor and one with the new gun, what are you considering the "sparker test"?

Either will do, but I think you should keep doing with the grill igniter simply because it's become a de-facto yardstick. It's difficult to compare new/old results if we switch to something else.

Do those igniters wear out with time? It might be good to measure the sparks and make sure it's holding up, producing sparks just like the first day.

There's a fair difference between the two PCBs you show.

They've moved the buzzer and a few components around, yes.

When you really zapped the AN8002 the major trace damage happened around the area of the buzzer. Maybe they moved the buzzer away to improve that area of the PCB.  :popcorn:



Regardless, the thing that failed first on that meter was the transistor clamp - nothing to do with PCB spacing or layout. If the transistors in the AN8008 are the same then I'd guess it will fail in the same way.

Of my sample of two grill starters, there is a WIDE variance!! And yes I believe the output changes with time.   I have a starter that looks very similar to this one that is new and it puts out a much larger spark.   The one I use for testing actually came from a old grill I scrapped.  The spring tension is a fair amount less than the new one. 

It only really gets used for the meters and I have checked the output a couple of times during the course of all this testing and it appeared to be the same. 

I have changed the test methods before as I  find better ways to run them.   

When I "zapped" the AN8002, it was the higher energy generator that caused the damage you mention.  I don't record any of this testing in the spreadsheet.  It's more an FYI than anything.   

Because the PTC and clamp are located pretty much in the worst possible location setting up a loop that runs more than half the length of the board, it's really hard to say how changing the layout will effect it.  The part placement and layout are VERY important when you start pumping several amps through the board in sub ns.       

You may feel the clamp would take the initial hit and I would tend to agree with that for the slower rise time transients.  The grill starter transient is pretty much over in 10ns.  The rise time on the other generator is around 1us.   It matters! 

I would really have no way of knowing what failed first on the 8002.  You can guess it's the clamps but I can't say that for sure.  Again, many thing will play into this including the layout. 

I would say if I had been able to replace the clamps or even just remove them and get the meter functional again, you would be correct.  That was not the case.   

Where are you sending the $10 if the 8008 fails the gun?  I think if it fails you should have to send Dave $20 to cover his cost of the 8008.   :-DD   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #213 on: July 19, 2017, 03:30:21 am »

I am more impressed by Lightages belief in "the power of CAT-markings".  As you can see, he finds this meter to be suitable for beginners because it has no fake CAT-rating.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

More putting words in other's mouths, troll.........

You know trolling here, lying about what people say or what their intent is, are reasons for discipline here. Keep it up.....

Quote
If it has no claim of safety, it looks like a cool little meter for the beginning hobbyist to have for his/her low energy experiments.

It does seem to me that is what you were suggesting from your comment above.   



Beginner:
Look at this cool little multimeter I just got from China. It  has no CAT-ratings, so I will only use it for my arduino.

I am thoroughly impressed with the Norwegian "beginners", who all know what a CAT rating is.
(And who actively look for a CAT rating, notice its absence, and draw the right conclusions.)  ::)

Come on, a beginner is just as likely to poke at a wall outlet with that unrated meter as with an AN8008. And just as unlikely to electrocute himself doing it.


When UI was a beginner, we did not have these fancy meters to poke at the wall socket.  At best we had scissors and not the ones with plastic handles.    :-DD   While I did not fall pry to that, a classmate did.  We were maybe 5 then. :-DD :-DD  I plugged a chopped off line cord that I had stripped the ends in and then touched the wires, catching my bed on fire. :-DD  The wonders of electricity to a small child..  :-DD     
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #214 on: July 19, 2017, 03:35:05 am »
Harbor Freight also gives away these beauties. The convenient on/off switch means the selector can literally be in any position when junior connects the probes.



I guess anyone, not just Jr, could have the selector literally in any position when we connect the probes to the meter or to the target. 

If I pick one of these up and it fails on the new gun, would you send Dave another $20?    I need some incentive...  :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #215 on: July 19, 2017, 04:13:09 am »
is everyone that calls you out on anything a 'troll' ?
I welcome discussion, but with points being made. Not with straw men arguments. I believe that meters should be not be rated falsely. That is all I have asserted in this thread. Trying to make it look like I have been trying assert anything differently is a straw man argument, or trolling, or completely idiocy.

Tronde delivers the goods backing up what he types,

why is he a troll and you're not ?

When have I misrepresented anything anyone has said? He has.

It borders on forum slander  :--

 :-DD "forum slander"!!!! :-DD
Really, I state my opinion and point of view and have it twisted to something I didn't say and defend myself and I am the one "slandering"?  :palm:

Edited for typo
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:55:03 pm by Lightages »
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #216 on: July 19, 2017, 04:19:12 am »
I will clarify my statement "If it has no claim of safety, it looks like a cool little meter for the beginning hobbyist to have for his/her low energy experiments. That is, if can be reliable for such a cheap price."

In the context of the concern I have for mislabeled CAT ratings, the fact that is not going to cause a newbie to use it n the wrong circumstance because it claims to be safer than it is, it is more suitable for a newbie who at least knows that CAT ratings indicate it is safe.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #217 on: July 19, 2017, 04:20:34 am »

What happened? Hopefully no hurt feelings were involved between the parties...

I explained it in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/announcement-i-am-not-a-brymen-distriubotr-anymore/msg1195867/#msg1195867
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #218 on: July 19, 2017, 05:13:26 am »
I agree Wilfred. When a person adds  :popcorn: to their post, it is a clear declaration of the intent to provoke, or troll.
 

Offline Gary.M

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #219 on: July 19, 2017, 06:52:14 am »
I agree Wilfred. When a person adds  :popcorn: to their post, it is a clear declaration of the intent to provoke, or troll.
Fungus is the king of popcorn here. With the frequency that he reaches for it he must have an expanding waistline.

Sent from my x600 using Tapatalk

 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #220 on: July 19, 2017, 07:17:20 am »
...I believe that meters should be be rated falsely. That is all I have asserted in this thread.

Why should they be rated falsely?

Isn't that fraudulent and DANGEROUS for those deceived? 

BTW: since when did munching on maccas / popcorn / chips  and sipping cola /KoolAid    (example >  :popcorn: )    make one a troll candidate ?   

going by your incinuation alone, the forum must be crawling with them...       :scared:

« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:24:28 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #221 on: July 19, 2017, 07:49:29 am »
since when did munching on maccas and sipping cola    (example >  :popcorn: )    make one a troll candidate ?   

I agree that the "popcorn" icon has that trolling connotation. To me, it says: "I'll sit back now and enjoy the show/fight (which I hope to incite with this post)".

I have been wondering before whether this forum would be an even better place if some of the emoticons were no longer offered. The popcorn-eater is one of them. I also find that the :-DD and :palm: can be quite offending, when they are used to comment on another member's posts. You would probably use neither gesture in a face-to-face dialog, at least not in a civilized one. But of course those emoticons have non-offending uses, when posted in reaction to a genuine joke, your own error, or some ridiculous/stupid proceedings outside the forum.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #222 on: July 19, 2017, 08:25:11 am »
Harbor Freight also gives away these beauties. The convenient on/off switch means the selector can literally be in any position when junior connects the probes.



I guess anyone, not just Jr, could have the selector literally in any position when we connect the probes to the meter or to the target. 

As far as multimeter safety sins go, the "convenient on/off switch" is one of the worst. Fake CAT ratings pale by comparison.

Just think of the children!

If I pick one of these up and it fails on the new gun, would you send Dave another $20?    I need some incentive...  :-DD

Nope.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #223 on: July 19, 2017, 08:29:45 am »
I know this is another $25 meter ($24.99 actually) but this coming Saturday, ALDI is offering this one.



Wonder what it would be like inside....?
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #1007 - Is a $25 Multimeter Any Good
« Reply #224 on: July 19, 2017, 08:40:25 am »
Be sure to keep the purchase receipt in a safe place, you will need it for the return process.   :o ::) :-BROKE
 


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