Author Topic: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 13513 times)

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The new Siglent SDS1104X-E $499 4CH oscilloscope is a new contender for Rigol's DS1054Z dominance. What's it like inside?



Boot log:

Code: [Select]
Config AXI VDMA...
Start menu vdma done.


U-Boot 2014.07-svn6402 (Jul 06 2017 - 00:17:05)

Board: Xilinx Zynq
I2C:   ready
DRAM:  ECC disabled 243 MiB
NAND:  256 MiB
MMC:   zynq_sdhci: 0
*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environment

In:    serial
Out:   serial
Err:   serial
lcd_init++++++++++++
lcd_init----------
Net:   Gem.e000b000
Hit any key to stop autoboot:  0
(Re)start USB...
USB0:   USB EHCI 1.00
scanning bus 0 for devices... 2 USB Device(s) found
USB1:   ULPI request timed out
zynq ULPI viewport init failed
lowlevel init failed
       scanning usb for storage devices... 0 Storage Device(s) found
Copying Linux from USB to RAM...
** Bad device usb 0 **
Download Linux from USB to Nandflash...
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
** Bad device usb 0 **
Copying Linux from NAND flash to RAM...

NAND read: device 0 offset 0x780000, size 0x400000
 4194304 bytes read: OK

NAND read: device 0 offset 0xb80000, size 0x80000
 524288 bytes read: OK
 ## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at 02080000 ...
   Image Name:   Linux-3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597
   Image Type:   ARM Linux Kernel Image (uncompressed)
   Data Size:    3396064 Bytes = 3.2 MiB
   Load Address: 00008000
   Entry Point:  00008000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
 ## Flattened Device Tree blob at 02000000
   Booting using the fdt blob at 0x2000000
EHCI failed to shut down host controller.
   Loading Kernel Image ... OK
   Loading Device Tree to 0e00e000, end 0e014dab ... OK

Starting kernel ...

[    0.000000] Booting Linux on physical CPU 0x0
[    0.000000] Linux version 3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597 (ding@ding-T5810) (gcc version 4.6.1 (Sourcery CodeBench Lite 2011.09-50) ) #189 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 28 23:53:53 CST 2017
[    0.000000] CPU: ARMv7 Processor [413fc090] revision 0 (ARMv7), cr=18c5387d
[    0.000000] CPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing instruction cache
[    0.000000] Machine model: Zynq Zed Development Board
[    0.000000] cma: Reserved 16 MiB at 0x0d000000
[    0.000000] Memory policy: Data cache writealloc
[    0.000000] PERCPU: Embedded 9 pages/cpu @4f0ea000 s8128 r8192 d20544 u36864
[    0.000000] Built 1 zonelists in Zone order, mobility grouping on.  Total pages: 61722
[    0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyPS0,115200 root=/dev/mtdblock5 rootfstype=cramfs init=/linuxrc earlyprintk uboot_version=07
[    0.000000] PID hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.000000] Dentry cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 5, 131072 bytes)
[    0.000000] Inode-cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
[    0.000000] Memory: 223532K/248832K available (4202K kernel code, 228K rwdata, 1688K rodata, 196K init, 222K bss, 8916K reserved, 16384K cma-reserved, 0K highmem)
[    0.000000] Virtual kernel memory layout:
[    0.000000]     vector  : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000   (   4 kB)
[    0.000000]     fixmap  : 0xffc00000 - 0xfff00000   (3072 kB)
[    0.000000]     vmalloc : 0x4f800000 - 0xff000000   (2808 MB)
[    0.000000]     lowmem  : 0x40000000 - 0x4f300000   ( 243 MB)
[    0.000000]     pkmap   : 0x3fe00000 - 0x40000000   (   2 MB)
[    0.000000]     modules : 0x3f000000 - 0x3fe00000   (  14 MB)
[    0.000000]       .text : 0x40008000 - 0x405c8aa4   (5891 kB)
[    0.000000]       .init : 0x405c9000 - 0x405fa000   ( 196 kB)
[    0.000000]       .data : 0x405fa000 - 0x40633320   ( 229 kB)
[    0.000000]        .bss : 0x40633320 - 0x4066ae38   ( 223 kB)
[    0.000000] Preemptible hierarchical RCU implementation.
[    0.000000] RCU restricting CPUs from NR_CPUS=4 to nr_cpu_ids=2.
[    0.000000] RCU: Adjusting geometry for rcu_fanout_leaf=16, nr_cpu_ids=2
[    0.000000] NR_IRQS:16 nr_irqs:16 16
[    0.000000] L2C: platform modifies aux control register: 0x72360000 -> 0x72760000
[    0.000000] L2C: DT/platform modifies aux control register: 0x72360000 -> 0x72760000
[    0.000000] L2C-310 erratum 769419 enabled
[    0.000000] L2C-310 enabling early BRESP for Cortex-A9
[    0.000000] L2C-310 full line of zeros enabled for Cortex-A9
[    0.000000] L2C-310 ID prefetch enabled, offset 1 lines
[    0.000000] L2C-310 dynamic clock gating enabled, standby mode enabled
[    0.000000] L2C-310 cache controller enabled, 8 ways, 512 kB
[    0.000000] L2C-310: CACHE_ID 0x410000c8, AUX_CTRL 0x76760001
[    0.000000] slcr mapped to 4f804000
[    0.000000] zynq_clock_init: clkc starts at 4f804100
[    0.000000] Zynq clock init
[    0.000010] sched_clock: 64 bits at 333MHz, resolution 3ns, wraps every 3298534883328ns
[    0.000135] timer #0 at 4f806000, irq=17
[    0.000497] Console: colour dummy device 80x30
[    0.000517] Calibrating delay loop... 1332.01 BogoMIPS (lpj=6660096)
[    0.090276] pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301
[    0.090434] Mount-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.090448] Mountpoint-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
[    0.091105] CPU: Testing write buffer coherency: ok
[    0.091324] CPU0: thread -1, cpu 0, socket 0, mpidr 80000000
[    0.091408] Setting up static identity map for 0x3f5c78 - 0x3f5cd0
[    0.240265] CPU1: thread -1, cpu 1, socket 0, mpidr 80000001
[    0.240344] Brought up 2 CPUs
[    0.240364] SMP: Total of 2 processors activated (2664.03 BogoMIPS).
[    0.240374] CPU: All CPU(s) started in SVC mode.
[    0.240900] devtmpfs: initialized
[    0.241731] VFP support v0.3: implementor 41 architecture 3 part 30 variant 9 rev 4
[    0.247849] NET: Registered protocol family 16
[    0.249975] DMA: preallocated 256 KiB pool for atomic coherent allocations
[    0.281225] cpuidle: using governor ladder
[    0.311194] cpuidle: using governor menu
[    0.319515] hw-breakpoint: found 5 (+1 reserved) breakpoint and 1 watchpoint registers.
[    0.319533] hw-breakpoint: maximum watchpoint size is 4 bytes.
[    0.319676] zynq-ocm f800c000.ocmc: ZYNQ OCM pool: 256 KiB @ 0x4f880000
[    0.337205] vgaarb: loaded
[    0.337668] SCSI subsystem initialized
[    0.338098] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
[    0.338193] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
[    0.338303] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
[    0.338472] phy0 supply vcc not found, using dummy regulator
[    0.338565] phy1 supply vcc not found, using dummy regulator
[    0.338677] --------------usb_udc_init ------
[    0.338910] pps_core: LinuxPPS API ver. 1 registered
[    0.338923] pps_core: Software ver. 5.3.6 - Copyright 2005-2007 Rodolfo Giometti <giometti@linux.it>
[    0.338972] PTP clock support registered
[    0.339128] EDAC MC: Ver: 3.0.0
[    0.340898] Switched to clocksource arm_global_timer
[    0.353329] NET: Registered protocol family 2
[    0.354180] TCP established hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
[    0.354231] TCP bind hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
[    0.354288] TCP: Hash tables configured (established 2048 bind 2048)
[    0.354341] TCP: reno registered
[    0.354357] UDP hash table entries: 256 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
[    0.354393] UDP-Lite hash table entries: 256 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
[    0.354616] NET: Registered protocol family 1
[    0.354959] RPC: Registered named UNIX socket transport module.
[    0.354972] RPC: Registered udp transport module.
[    0.354981] RPC: Registered tcp transport module.
[    0.354989] RPC: Registered tcp NFSv4.1 backchannel transport module.
[    0.355436] hw perfevents: enabled with armv7_cortex_a9 PMU driver, 7 counters available
[    0.356878] futex hash table entries: 512 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
[    0.358650] jffs2: version 2.2. (NAND) © 2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc.
[    0.359757] io scheduler noop registered
[    0.359778] io scheduler deadline registered
[    0.359832] io scheduler cfq registered (default)
[    0.362954] dma-pl330 f8003000.dmac: Loaded driver for PL330 DMAC-241330
[    0.362977] dma-pl330 f8003000.dmac: DBUFF-128x8bytes Num_Chans-8 Num_Peri-4 Num_Events-16
[    0.363496] e0001000.serial: ttyPS0 at MMIO 0xe0001000 (irq = 146, base_baud = 6249999) is a xuartps
[    0.934931] console [ttyPS0] enabled
[    0.939115] xdevcfg f8007000.devcfg: ioremap 0xf8007000 to 4f878000
[    0.945883] [drm] Initialized drm 1.1.0 20060810
[    0.958598] brd: module loaded
[    0.965735] loop: module loaded
[    0.977230] libphy: MACB_mii_bus: probed
[    1.060828] macb e000b000.ethernet eth0: Cadence GEM rev 0x00020118 at 0xe000b000 irq 150 (00:0a:35:00:01:22)
[    1.070665] macb e000b000.ethernet eth0: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=e000b000.etherne:1e, irq=-1)
[    1.082216] ehci_hcd: USB 2.0 'Enhanced' Host Controller (EHCI) Driver
[    1.088668] ehci-pci: EHCI PCI platform driver
[    1.093264] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbtmc
[    1.098848] usbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storage
[    1.105018] e0002000.usb supply vbus not found, using dummy regulator
[    1.111708] ci_hdrc ci_hdrc.0: EHCI Host Controller
[    1.116527] ci_hdrc ci_hdrc.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
[    1.140719] ci_hdrc ci_hdrc.0: USB 2.0 started, EHCI 1.00
[    1.146865] hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
[    1.150571] hub 1-0:1.0: 1 port detected
[    1.155039] e0003000.usb supply vbus not found, using dummy regulator
[    1.163200] i2c /dev entries driver
[    1.167480] cdns-i2c e0005000.i2c: 20 kHz mmio e0005000 irq 144
[    1.174727] zynq-edac f8006000.memory-controller: ecc not enabled
[    1.180999] Xilinx Zynq CpuIdle Driver started
[    1.186028] ledtrig-cpu: registered to indicate activity on CPUs
[    1.192139] usbcore: registered new interface driver r8188eu
[    1.198559] nand: device found, Manufacturer ID: 0x2c, Chip ID: 0xda
[    1.204923] nand: Micron MT29F2G08ABAEAWP
[    1.208845] nand: 256 MiB, SLC, erase size: 128 KiB, page size: 2048, OOB size: 64
[    1.216419] nand: WARNING: pl353-nand: the ECC used on your system is too weak compared to the one required by the NAND chip
[    1.227913] Bad block table found at page 131008, version 0x01
[    1.234169] Bad block table found at page 130944, version 0x01
[    1.240280] 11 ofpart partitions found on MTD device pl353-nand
[    1.246138] Creating 11 MTD partitions on "pl353-nand":
[    1.251349] 0x000000000000-0x000000780000 : "fsbl"
[    1.257256] 0x000000780000-0x000000b80000 : "kerneldata"
[    1.263571] 0x000000b80000-0x000000c00000 : "device-tree"
[    1.269861] 0x000000c00000-0x000001100000 : "Manufacturedata"
[    1.276530] 0x000001100000-0x000001600000 : "reserved1"
[    1.282695] 0x000001600000-0x000003e00000 : "rootfs"
[    1.288637] 0x000003e00000-0x000004800000 : "firmdata0"
[    1.294842] 0x000004800000-0x000007000000 : "siglent"
[    1.300922] 0x000007000000-0x00000d400000 : "datafs"
[    1.306963] 0x00000d400000-0x00000fc00000 : "upgrade_cramdisk"
[    1.313864] 0x00000fc00000-0x000010000000 : "reserved2"
[    1.322033] TCP: cubic registered
[    1.325278] NET: Registered protocol family 17
[    1.329718] lib80211: common routines for IEEE802.11 drivers
[    1.335810] Registering SWP/SWPB emulation handler
[    1.347543] cramfs_fill_nand blocks is 320-----------------------
[    1.347543]
[    1.347543]
[    1.347543]
[    1.360982] VFS: Mounted root (cramfs filesystem) readonly on device 31:5.
[    1.367837] devtmpfs: mounted
[    1.371093] Freeing unused kernel memory: 196K (405c9000 - 405fa000)
[    1.470798] usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 2 using ci_hdrc
[    1.622124] hub 1-1:1.0: USB hub found
[    1.625912] hub 1-1:1.0: 3 ports detected
Starting rcS...
 Mounting filesystem
[    1.788494] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attaching mtd8 to ubi0
[    2.187088] UBI-0: scan_all:scanning is finished
[    2.199416] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attached mtd8 (name "datafs", size 100 MiB)
[    2.206869] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:PEB size: 131072 bytes (128 KiB), LEB size: 126976 bytes
[    2.215425] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048/2048, sub-page size 2048
[    2.223928] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:VID header offset: 2048 (aligned 2048), data offset: 4096
[    2.232619] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:good PEBs: 800, bad PEBs: 0, corrupted PEBs: 0
[    2.240319] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:user volume: 1, internal volumes: 1, max. volumes count: 128
[    2.249276] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:max/mean erase counter: 4/1, WL threshold: 4096, image sequence number: 1174617309
[    2.260124] UBI-0: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:available PEBs: 0, total reserved PEBs: 800, PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 40
[    2.271077] UBI-0: ubi_thread:background thread "ubi_bgt0d" started, PID 649
[    2.275415] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attaching mtd7 to ubi1
[    2.435476] UBI-1: scan_all:scanning is finished
[    2.447203] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attached mtd7 (name "siglent", size 40 MiB)
[    2.454654] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:PEB size: 131072 bytes (128 KiB), LEB size: 126976 bytes
[    2.463214] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048/2048, sub-page size 2048
[    2.471716] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:VID header offset: 2048 (aligned 2048), data offset: 4096
[    2.480381] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:good PEBs: 320, bad PEBs: 0, corrupted PEBs: 0
[    2.488133] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:user volume: 1, internal volumes: 1, max. volumes count: 128
[    2.497064] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:max/mean erase counter: 4/2, WL threshold: 4096, image sequence number: 166915174
[    2.507826] UBI-1: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:available PEBs: 0, total reserved PEBs: 320, PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 40
[    2.518777] UBI-1: ubi_thread:background thread "ubi_bgt1d" started, PID 653
[    2.523152] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attaching mtd6 to ubi2
[    2.565113] UBI-2: scan_all:scanning is finished
[    2.575838] UBI-2 warning: print_rsvd_warning: cannot reserve enough PEBs for bad PEB handling, reserved 9, need 40
[    2.586923] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:attached mtd6 (name "firmdata0", size 10 MiB)
[    2.594527] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:PEB size: 131072 bytes (128 KiB), LEB size: 126976 bytes
[    2.603105] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048/2048, sub-page size 2048
[    2.611609] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:VID header offset: 2048 (aligned 2048), data offset: 4096
[    2.620277] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:good PEBs: 80, bad PEBs: 0, corrupted PEBs: 0
[    2.627927] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:user volume: 1, internal volumes: 1, max. volumes count: 128
[    2.636869] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:max/mean erase counter: 6/3, WL threshold: 4096, image sequence number: 1044444380
[    2.647737] UBI-2: ubi_attach_mtd_dev:available PEBs: 0, total reserved PEBs: 80, PEBs reserved for bad PEB handling: 9
[    2.658499] UBI-2: ubi_thread:background thread "ubi_bgt2d" started, PID 657
[    2.736804] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 1, volume 0, name "siglent", R/O mode
[    2.743715] UBIFS: LEB size: 126976 bytes (124 KiB), min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048 bytes/2048 bytes
[    2.752821] UBIFS: FS size: 33775616 bytes (32 MiB, 266 LEBs), journal size 4952064 bytes (4 MiB, 39 LEBs)
[    2.762449] UBIFS: reserved for root: 0 bytes (0 KiB)
[    2.767478] UBIFS: media format: w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0), UUID CB8C2D55-7B90-4921-B20B-3818373CC8E2, small LPT model
[    2.843157] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 2, volume 0, name "firm0", R/O mode
[    2.849865] UBIFS: LEB size: 126976 bytes (124 KiB), min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048 bytes/2048 bytes
[    2.859010] UBIFS: FS size: 7237632 bytes (6 MiB, 57 LEBs), journal size 1650688 bytes (1 MiB, 13 LEBs)
[    2.868365] UBIFS: reserved for root: 0 bytes (0 KiB)
[    2.873404] UBIFS: media format: w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0), UUID C19D5CB3-831B-4B44-950C-7A0C94BC5EF7, small LPT model
[    2.887103] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt0_0" started, PID 662
[    2.918483] UBIFS: recovery needed
[    2.993217] UBIFS: recovery completed
[    2.996884] UBIFS: mounted UBI device 0, volume 0, name "rootfs"
[    3.002916] UBIFS: LEB size: 126976 bytes (124 KiB), min./max. I/O unit sizes: 2048 bytes/2048 bytes
[    3.011987] UBIFS: FS size: 94597120 bytes (90 MiB, 745 LEBs), journal size 9023488 bytes (8 MiB, 72 LEBs)
[    3.021608] UBIFS: reserved for root: 0 bytes (0 KiB)
[    3.026636] UBIFS: media format: w4/r0 (latest is w4/r0), UUID E0FF57F6-4C55-4611-B74D-F2754AB10FAF, small LPT model
Upgrade start
 Configure eth0
Starting mdev
[    4.007790] xilinx-dma 40400000.dma: Probing xilinx axi dma engine...Successful
[    4.033627] xilinx-vdma 43010000.dma: Xilinx AXI VDMA Engine Driver Probed!!
[    4.048954] sigdma_init++++++
[    4.072010] siglentkb probe
[    4.074814] ##### siglentkb registers 4fc1e580 4fc365a4 4fc385b8
config read
 ###### Config vdma for wave transform #######
config write
config read
dump s2mm registers
dump mm2s registers
 ####### done! ########
Segmentation fault
[    4.290210] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" started, PID 741
ln: /usr/bin/siglent/config/www/web_img/usr: File exists
Starting Lighttpd Web Server: [    4.405947] random: lighttpd urandom read with 17 bits of entropy available
lighttpd.
[    4.543757] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" stops
rcS Complete

Processing /etc/profile... Done

/ # [1B][34m[INFO]:[1B][0mcalibrate_t():line=81:calibrate_t::calibrate_t()
lib_product_t::set_product_type 4CH
4CH key XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxx
[    5.445350] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" started, PID 761
mkdir: can't create directory '/usr/bin/siglent/wifi/': File exists
rm: can't remove '/usr/bin/siglent/wifi/wpa_supplicant': No such file or directory
[    5.483311] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" stops
clear done



                                                       $Task start:: SCPI
 
                                                       $Task start:: Devce
 msp430_power_off

vxi11_main = 6679.07

                                                       $Task start:: Udisk&Lan
 XXX  other_main 0: 10 :d1 :0 :0 :32  010d10032
sh: write error: Invalid argument
drv_instance_manage_t: produce_id: 13501
(DRV_PRODUCT_PIKACHU)
_drv_product=4
power_off_cycle

                                                       $Task start:: Vxi11_client
 Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
Config module error:_get_fs_wave_data
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ready...
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bu_cfg module er[    7.413072] export_store: invalid GPIO 115
ror:mode-type:/usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0/options_mso_license.txt
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sh: write error: Invalid argument
sh: can't create /sys/class/gpio/gpio115/direction: nonexistent directory
sh: can't create /sys/class/gpio/gpio115/value: nonexistent directory
ready...
drv_if_scrnsvr_t::set_switch++
[1B][34m[INFO]:[1B][0mset_current_iq_wave():line=146:open file /usr/bin/siglent/config/arb/2ASK.wav fail !!!!
lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::amplify_index = 8
lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::size = 6
acq_thread module error:lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert unit error.

                                                       $Task start:: UI
[    9.345073] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" started, PID 845
rm: can't remove '/usr/bin/siglent/wifi/wpa_supplicant': No such file or directory
[    9.372663] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" stops
ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device
[    9.436328] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" started, PID 862
rm: can't remove '/usr/bin/siglent/wifi/wpa_supplicant': No such file or directory
[    9.478112] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" stops
ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device
 lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::amplify_index = 8
lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::size = 6
acq_thread module error:lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert unit error.
lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::amplify_index = 8
lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert::size = 6
acq_thread module error:lib_unit_deal_t::do_convert unit error.

                                                       $Task start:: awg_thread
 BUG:pui_cursors_parameter_t::get_cursors_manual_source() no curr manual source!
bu_cfg_digital_t::set_setup
adc_skew start
calc_phase_diff skew = 30160
calc_phase_diff skew = 30140
calc_phase_diff skew = 30100
adc_skew end

                                                       $Task start:: awg_interrupt_thread
[   13.530200] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" started, PID 884
rm: can't remove '/usr/bin/siglent/wifi/wpa_supplicant': No such file or directory
[   13.548290] UBIFS: background thread "ubifs_bgt1_0" stops
ifconfig: SIOCGIFFLAGS: No such device
 usbtmc_para = insmod /usr/bin/siglent/drivers/g_usbtmc.ko idVendor=0xf4ec idProduct=0xee38 iManufacturer=Siglent iProduct=SDS1104X-E iSerialNum=SDSMMDBD1R0050
insmod: can't read '/usr/bin/siglent/drivers/udc-xilinx.ko': No such file or directory
[   23.729376] ######################### usb_gadget_probe_driver 3f03346c ##################
[   23.737581] usbtmc_bind+++
[   23.742697] SIGLENT_DEV: SIGLENT_DEV, version: 2007 OCT 06
[   23.749321] usbtmc_open()++
[   23.752078] dev->usbtmc_cdev_open ret = 0
[   23.756040] ret = 0
[   23.758112] usbtmc_open--
[   23.761087] show_send_buffer_size = 61440

                                                       $Task start:: USBTMC


SHUTDOWN:
 save_trig_setup_as_xml
save_zoom_setup_as_xml
save_utility_setup_as_xml
save_auto_setup_as_xml
save_decode_setup_as_xml
save_search_setup_as_xml
save_digital_setup_as_xml
save_curr_menu_id_as_xml
[  213.010901] UBIFS: un-mount UBI device 2, volume 0
power_off+++[00]

Start menu vdma ...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 05:44:43 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 09:32:25 pm »
I have seen that power supply before. Don't know if that heatsink on top of that chip/MOSFet is doing anything because the die will be on the tab soldered to the PCB anyway.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 09:34:11 pm »
that heatsink

Makes me wonder just how hot it's running.

Offline iromero

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 09:47:51 pm »
That $69 wifi dongle looks suspiciously like the ones Microcenter sells for $5, I wonder if they would work?....
 

Offline tox3

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 10:00:41 pm »
Looks like a great feature set for the price. But will have to wait for the review to see what the user experience gonna be like.  :-//
 

Offline ArdWar

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 10:02:01 pm »
That $69 wifi dongle looks suspiciously like the ones Microcenter sells for $5, I wonder if they would work?....

Would be shitty design if it's an user-accessible USB port (with USB logo no less) but won't accept standard-compliant USB stuff.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 10:08:02 pm »
That $69 wifi dongle looks suspiciously like the ones Microcenter sells for $5, I wonder if they would work?....
It's not.

In our option listings the WiFi dongle is listed as TL-WN725N.
http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5520_TL-WN725N.html#overview

I've been told the gold version is the one to get, why I haven't sussed out yet.  :-//

Would be shitty design if it's an user-accessible USB port (with USB logo no less) but won't accept standard-compliant USB stuff.
Yep, we need to fiddle a bit with the WiFi dongle and see what else will work.

BUT you need buy the WIFI software option for it to work anyway unless a hack for it is found.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 10:12:43 pm by tautech »
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Offline G0MJW

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 10:08:23 pm »
It's quite remarkable what you can get for $499 and even more remarkable that you can get something quite similar for $350 from Rigol. I remember scopes being expensive and not something you would have at home. Nowadays its what you buy after a multi-meter and bench PSU and just before the spectrum analyser and signal generator. What's with the 4 channels? I usually find 2 enough.

I look forward to the proper testing video. One thing I expect I may like is the better choice of trace colours than we get on the DS1054.

Mike
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 10:20:37 pm »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

Appears it "ARM"s itself every 15 seconds, and that refreshes the screen.  Bizarre.

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Offline mtdoc

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 11:28:20 pm »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

I agree. Single trigger event should equal single sweep.  Waveform update rate should be irrelevant, shouldn't it?
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 11:42:19 pm »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

I agree. Single trigger event should equal single sweep.  Waveform update rate should be irrelevant, shouldn't it?
See this explanation for better understanding:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1359013/#msg1359013
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 11:56:39 pm »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

I agree. Single trigger event should equal single sweep.  Waveform update rate should be irrelevant, shouldn't it?
See this explanation for better understanding:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1359013/#msg1359013

That still doesn't explain why a single trigger event should produce more than one acquisition. Or is Dave's tap creating more than one trigger event? Would the same thing occur if in single shot mode?
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 12:50:57 am »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

I agree. Single trigger event should equal single sweep.  Waveform update rate should be irrelevant, shouldn't it?
See this explanation for better understanding:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1359013/#msg1359013

That still doesn't explain why a single trigger event should produce more than one acquisition. Or is Dave's tap creating more than one trigger event? Would the same thing occur if in single shot mode?
Let's see:



Probably Dave's one is all back together now but the Siglent's aren't usually that sensitive to impacts to the BNC inputs. I haven't had the beta unit I have here apart so I'm wondering if Siglent have used their usual through-chassis design for the inputs with nuts on the BNC's or they've departed to something else.  :-//
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Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2017, 12:57:59 am »
I have the same question: are the input BNCs bolted to the chassis or not? IMHO it is important to have the input BNC connectors bolted to the chassis due to the amount of abuse/mechanical stress they endure.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2017, 01:02:29 am »
I have the same question: are the BNCs bolted to the chassis or not? IMHO it is important to have BNC connectors bolted to the chassis due to the amount of abuse/mechanical stress they endure.
They certainly are for SDS1202X-E but the mainboard layout for the 4 ch versions is vertical and we'd have to remove it to see for sure.....but I'll have a look through the front panel cut outs with a magnifying glass......back with an edit soon. Undetermined. Teardown required to be sure.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 01:08:29 am by tautech »
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Offline nidlaX

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2017, 03:04:40 am »
Dave: Are we going to see individual reviews of the new bottom tier 4 channel scopes, or will you go straight to a shootout with the latest models? I would argue that a shootout would be more informative than any individual reviews, so might as well save the effort and get straight to it.
 

Online maxwell3e10

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2017, 04:14:33 am »
I saw that Owon is coming out with a 4-channel version of XDS scopes with 14 bit resolution, XDS3064AE and XDS3104AE. Dave, I wonder if you can get a hold of one of them for a review. If its not too buggy, it would be a great contender to replace generic low frequency scopes.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 05:21:32 am »
Dave: Are we going to see individual reviews of the new bottom tier 4 channel scopes, or will you go straight to a shootout with the latest models? I would argue that a shootout would be more informative than any individual reviews, so might as well save the effort and get straight to it.

I think that's likely.
Shootouts are big jobs, but separate videos and shootout is even more work.
 

Offline Factotum

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2017, 06:47:15 am »
Sounds great  :-+ Can't wait (and I need a new 4 channel 'scope too)...
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2017, 09:52:42 am »
That multiple trace NORM mode is weird.  (For both KS and Siglent. I dare say both are buggy -- multiple exposures don't make any sense in that mode, period.)

I agree. Single trigger event should equal single sweep.  Waveform update rate should be irrelevant, shouldn't it?
See this explanation for better understanding:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1359013/#msg1359013

That still doesn't explain why a single trigger event should produce more than one acquisition. Or is Dave's tap creating more than one trigger event? Would the same thing occur if in single shot mode?

Yes, of course.
How you think this what Dave did is "single trigger event". 
Just open History view after it have stopped and display these multiple waveforms and there can see  separate captured waveforms what are triggered. Also trigger hysteresis is not very big and trigger level was set near zero. Due to small random short peak/noise induced to open input BNC may generate "ghost" trigger. Now if this multiple waveform stay on the screen and then if there exist any next single trigger event it looks like display is cleaned. If there is no other triggers inside this one display refresh cycle what happen perhaps around every 40ms roughly. But what we see in video, time position 18:57 it is mysterious when it suddenly clean display and leave last one visible after long time (many seconds) when Dave is just only talking. SDS1202X-E do not this itself.

If there exist around 40ms burst what have many trigger events it may draw up to over 3000 wfm (depending other settings what affect wfm/s speed) to one display frame overlayed.
If there is timer what cleans all but last acquisition - I can ask, why. As long as user understand how to use oscilloscope after he have this display. Or if he do not want, he can easy set scope so that this do not happen.
If he do not want at all this, he can turn ti Single mode. But then he have visible only first trigger event independent of if there is after then other trigger events.
If he want stay in Normal mode, there is also other setting what can use. There is acquisition mode selection: Slow and Fast. Slow do not capture multiple trigger events to one display frame.

If there is bug in this case, then there is but what I see in Daves video is not bug but wondering it and claiming it is bug without any more thinking and analyzing, bug (lack of experience and knowledge) is in user side.


« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 11:34:57 am by rf-loop »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2017, 12:12:55 pm »
As if Dave never used or seen any other oscilloscope  :palm: FFS he is even taking the trouble of pulling out 3 other scopes and show their behaviour in the same situation!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2017, 01:08:05 pm »
I like the idea to put the MSO option into an external box connected via USB. If Siglent is clever they would provide a PC software to use the MSO box also directly by the PC. Same for the signal generator box.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2017, 01:13:27 pm »
I like the idea to put the MSO option into an external box connected via USB. If Siglent is clever they would provide a PC software to use the MSO box also directly by the PC. Same for the signal generator box.
Well that does complicate combining things like triggering. Lecroy already went this route for one of their earlier MSO offerings and it didn't work out very well.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2017, 01:22:16 pm »
I like the idea to put the MSO option into an external box connected via USB. If Siglent is clever they would provide a PC software to use the MSO box also directly by the PC. Same for the signal generator box.

Time correlation between analog channels and LA via USB is perhaps "small" problem.  How many nanosecond variation you accept between analog channels and digital channels.  MSO need  tight time correlation without random exeptions between analog and digital channels. How this USB can syncronize with analog channels ADC clock.

I think Sbus (near USB connector) is there with reasons?
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 01:22:34 pm »
I was wondering... what is the difference between hacking a piece of hardware like this and hacking software? It seems both have legal issues yet one seems to be more 'acceptable' than the other. Consider that the Rigol hack is distributed so everyone is able to upgrade their scope, meaning we're not talking about something just done for your own use. What's the convention here, or is it unmentionable?
 

Offline R_Gtx

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2017, 05:39:34 pm »
I think Sbus (near USB connector) is there with reasons?

p.6 of the QuickStart guide confirms that the S-Bus, a modified HDMI connector, is for digital inputs:
 

Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2017, 03:54:39 am »
Interestingly, the Instek MSO-2204EA exhibits the same double trace behavior as the Siglent when tapping on the BNC in normal mode.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 04:10:21 am »
Interestingly, the Instek MSO-2204EA exhibits the same double trace behavior as the Siglent when tapping on the BNC in normal mode.
Is it consistent ? Each and every event ?
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 05:25:33 am »
Here's a question:
Is the multiple waveform just a temporary artefact that goes away after a time - the specific interest being how long that time can be?

In the Keysight scope the artefact was visible ... but only for a sub second time interval.

Could it be that the Siglent will clean its act up ... but it might be less disciplined and take an unspecified time period to do it?

In this video, we see this occur quickly at times - and then at around the 18:50 mark, it takes around 7 seconds.  Perhaps the times it "didn't" were simply from Dave not waiting long enough.

I'm not excusing the behaviour - just looking at a possibility.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2017, 07:25:39 am »
Here's a question:
Is the multiple waveform just a temporary artefact that goes away after a time - the specific interest being how long that time can be?

In the Keysight scope the artefact was visible ... but only for a sub second time interval.

Could it be that the Siglent will clean its act up ... but it might be less disciplined and take an unspecified time period to do it?

In this video, we see this occur quickly at times - and then at around the 18:50 mark, it takes around 7 seconds.  Perhaps the times it "didn't" were simply from Dave not waiting long enough.

I'm not excusing the behaviour - just looking at a possibility.

In video there is also one mysterious.

When it have multiple waveforms captured (of course, this is mostly not one trigger event) and display these on the screen, it display continuously many seconds when Dave talk.  Then it suddenly "clean" display and only one wfm is displayed. Just at this moment there can see that   :bullshit: Trigger indicator blinks shortly. This is unexpected. If look carefully this short blink can see. What it is? Why?

I have tested this now many ways with SDS1104X-E  brother SDS1202X-E.
In normal mode it leave all these wafeforms continuously on the screen what are captured and displayed in last display frame. What are in previous display frame, they disappear (of course but human eye fading bit slowly). After then if no anymore trigger events it keep these on the screen continuously and infinite. Until trigger event or user hit example run/stop what leave last one on the screen.

A.
If user want first trigger event single waveform displayed and then stop. Trigger mode Single.

B.
If user want last event(s) there is two way and trigger mode Normal in use.

 - B1.  Acg mode fast.
It leave after last trigger event, this last frame visible independent of if it have single or multiple events. (bug or not but this it do and I like it do this - because it have more tools for look details)

- B2.  Acg mode slow.
It capture only single trigger event to one display frame. After last trig, it display this last frame where is last captured waveform. If user want this, just use this.

If it is too complex, on the markets can find more simple scopes.
But I like that scope is slave and I am mastrer who select how scope do. Not vice versa.

If there is multiple frames captured after acquistion started (fast or slow) and trig Normal mode. Last frame is displayed if no anymore trigger events.
User can stop oscilloscope pressing Run/stop or History. At this point it clean and leave last wfm to display.

If it was fast mode and last frame and previous frames have single or multiple waveforms these every waveform can look separately using history view. (up to max buffer depth - depending settings)
This is because waveform history buffer is not "frame recorder". It record every single waveform, idependent of how many waveform is in run mode overlayed in one display frame. Also every waveform have individual time stamp.






« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 07:44:22 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

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« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 03:41:50 pm by tautech »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 11:39:04 am »
Interestingly, the Instek MSO-2204EA exhibits the same double trace behavior as the Siglent when tapping on the BNC in normal mode.
Disable persistence and the effect is gone!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 11:46:26 am »
Dave: Are we going to see individual reviews of the new bottom tier 4 channel scopes
I think that's likely.
Shootouts are big jobs, but separate videos and shootout is even more work.

Are there enough "new bottom tier 4 channel scopes" for a shootout? I thought there was only one.

Plus: At 40% more money+three years more recent then the current champion (Rigol DS1054Z) it would only be news if it lost the shootout.

A few comparisons is OK but a video review + bug hunt of this new Siglent seems more appropriate.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 11:53:52 am by Fungus »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 12:21:08 pm »
Interestingly, the Instek MSO-2204EA exhibits the same double trace behavior as the Siglent when tapping on the BNC in normal mode.
Disable persistence and the effect is gone!

If this is just because persistence on why it do not fade out during persistence time when it ageing exept if persistence time is set for infinite. Or is there bug in persistence system?
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 02:16:40 pm »
If it's "persistence" then all traces should disappear after a time, n'est pas?

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 02:56:58 pm »
Interestingly, the Instek MSO-2204EA exhibits the same double trace behavior as the Siglent when tapping on the BNC in normal mode.
Disable persistence and the effect is gone!
If this is just because persistence on why it do not fade out during persistence time when it ageing exept if persistence time is set for infinite. Or is there bug in persistence system?
Off-topic: I think this is a bug in the GW Instek (already reported so let's see how quickly they fix it). If more triggers arrive then the old traces will fade away but when no new triggers arrive the old traces don't fade away.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 04:10:07 pm »
I've done lots of tapping of sensors to test their response, and a multiple bouncing first contact is the norm even with very hard surfaces. So I'm sure a bouncy screwdriver making contact with a plastic mounted BNC bounces and gives multiple triggers.

If using something like a small screwdriver, holding it gently near its middle while swiping it passed the BNC should allow it to bounce away after its first contact.

Slowing the scope to 10ms/div will probably show the multiple triggers are just screwdriver bounces!
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 10:17:47 pm »
Are there enough "new bottom tier 4 channel scopes" for a shootout? I thought there was only one.

Plus: At 40% more money+three years more recent then the current champion (Rigol DS1054Z) it would only be news if it lost the shootout.

A few comparisons is OK but a video review + bug hunt of this new Siglent seems more appropriate.
There's enough demand to warrant a shootout between the Rigol DS1054Z, GW Instek GDS-1104B, Uni-T UPO2104CS, Micsig TO1104, and Siglent SDS1104X-E. You could even throw in the shitty 4 channel Hantek bench scope along with the Owon and Hantek 4 channel PC based scopes.
 
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Offline lukier

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 10:50:05 pm »
There's enough demand to warrant a shootout between the Rigol DS1054Z, GW Instek GDS-1104B, Uni-T UPO2104CS, Micsig TO1104, and Siglent SDS1104X-E. You could even throw in the shitty 4 channel Hantek bench scope along with the Owon and Hantek 4 channel PC based scopes.

That would be great, but I'm not sure if Dave has Micsig TO1000 series one, AFAIR some older one he got ages ago.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2017, 06:20:41 pm »
@ EEVblog  (Dave)  one question

My previous message:
In video there is also one mysterious.

When it have multiple waveforms captured (of course, this is mostly not one trigger event) and display these on the screen, it display continuously many seconds when Dave talk.  Then it suddenly "clean" display and only one wfm is displayed.

When I testing SDS1104X-E today I find something "strange".

When you make this video and after then time is in video around 18:57 (time when it suddenly clean image and leave last one) after start: How long time scope was continuously on before this 18:57 time in video. Over around 30min or less?
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2017, 06:27:18 am »
@ EEVblog  (Dave)  one question

My previous message:
In video there is also one mysterious.

When it have multiple waveforms captured (of course, this is mostly not one trigger event) and display these on the screen, it display continuously many seconds when Dave talk.  Then it suddenly "clean" display and only one wfm is displayed.

When I testing SDS1104X-E today I find something "strange".

When you make this video and after then time is in video around 18:57 (time when it suddenly clean image and leave last one) after start: How long time scope was continuously on before this 18:57 time in video. Over around 30min or less?

Without Dave's answer.
My strong supposition:
In video, before time position 18:57 scope was not continuously on over 30 minutes.

It is explained here. This is my opinion based with my test result, not officially confirmed by Siglent.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1361981/#msg1361981
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #1044 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2017, 05:32:43 pm »
What's with the 4 channels? I usually find 2 enough.

Since on these oscilloscopes triggering occurs after digitizing the signal at the full resolution and sample rate, (1) the difference between a full vertical input and a trigger input is only input signal conditioning (2) and memory.  If the signal conditioning only includes a single high input impedance attenuator which is common now, then the signal conditioning is likely identical also.  So the change to support a full vertical input instead of a trigger input is likely only the memory to support it.

Oscilloscopes which use analog triggering have a greater difference between their vertical and trigger inputs so the incremental cost to implement 4 channels is greater.

(1) Run a test on an cheap DSO by triggering from an MSO input while displaying the vertical input of the same signal to see why this is.

(2) With only one high impedance attenuator and no input ground coupling or precharge, the signal conditioning of a cheap DSO vertical input shares more in common with a trigger input than a vertical input of past oscilloscopes.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 06:32:40 pm »

Appears it "ARM"s itself every 15 seconds, and that refreshes the screen.  Bizarre.


At this time (this may change in later FW) it works like this (simplified):

If all channels have 5mV/div or more it do not "refresh" the screen after 15 seconds.

If one or more channels use 500uV/div - 2mV/div 
And if oscilloscope have powered less than 30 minute it use automatic front end/ADC self adjust (tiny selfcal) every 15 seconds because it do not have reached thermal equilibrium. It do not detect this situation, it is just blind  30min timer.

After 30 minutes continuous power on this process ends.

I do not know why this is not at this time under user control si that user can select if it use or not this autoadjust.  In some oscilloscopes what have autoadjust there is also selction if user enable or disable it so that it do not disturb some measurement  work. But here is not selection now.


In normal mode  it show last display frame if not anymore trigger events.
If it is in fast acquisition mode, depending signal there may be more than one waveform overlayed in one display frame.
If want be sure there only one last wavefom, user can select acquistion mode slow. It capture only one waveform to one display screen.
If want be sure it stop and display first  trigged wafeform user select trigger mode Single, no matter if acquisition mode is slow or fast.

If trigger mode was Normal and acquisition mode fast and if there exist multiple waveform in last display frame and user want see then only last, he can push stop or history button.  After then he can also look in waveform history buffer and look and analyze (using measurements, FFT, cursors) these separate waveform in time order. In history buffer they have also time stamps.

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Dwaine

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2017, 12:42:10 am »
Image Name:   Linux-3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597

Why do these manufactures always use old dev/build environments?  What a shame.   At least 4.x.  The 3.19 kernel is EOL.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2017, 02:04:47 am »
Image Name:   Linux-3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597

Why do these manufactures always use old dev/build environments?  What a shame.   At least 4.x.  The 3.19 kernel is EOL.
What's to say it can't be updated later in a firmware release ?
Possible or not ?
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Offline nidlaX

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2017, 02:34:23 am »
Image Name:   Linux-3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597

Why do these manufactures always use old dev/build environments?  What a shame.   At least 4.x.  The 3.19 kernel is EOL.
What's to say it can't be updated later in a firmware release ?
Possible or not ?
Test equipment manufacturers are near to last in terms of keeping their products updated and secure. LAN and WiFi connected test equipment are probably great attack vectors for industrial espionage.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2017, 10:32:28 am »
I'd consider any T&M devices insecure by default. If you have to protect your R&D secrets design your network accordingly.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2017, 10:53:42 am »
Image Name:   Linux-3.19.0-xilinx-svn7597

Why do these manufactures always use old dev/build environments?  What a shame.   At least 4.x.  The 3.19 kernel is EOL.

What advantages would 4.x bring to an oscilloscope?
 

Offline SaKhan

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2017, 11:06:46 am »
I guess not many. Siglent as many other vendors probably backport the necessary bug fixes and features from the newer kernels in order to have a stable and established ecosystem. There are so many changes between 3.19 and 4.x that unless we have a config from their production kernel it's really hard to tell.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2017, 01:09:40 pm »
I guess not many. Siglent as many other vendors probably backport the necessary bug fixes and features from the newer kernels in order to have a stable and established ecosystem. There are so many changes between 3.19 and 4.x that unless we have a config from their production kernel it's really hard to tell.

How many of the changes would even be applicable in this context:

https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_4.0

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

Offline SaKhan

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2017, 12:09:50 am »
I guess not many. Siglent as many other vendors probably backport the necessary bug fixes and features from the newer kernels in order to have a stable and established ecosystem. There are so many changes between 3.19 and 4.x that unless we have a config from their production kernel it's really hard to tell.

How many of the changes would even be applicable in this context:

https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_4.0

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That's what I'm saying - the kernel is usually not a problem at all unless you have very recent hardware and/or features you have to support.
 

Offline davefiddes

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2017, 05:05:51 pm »
The kernel version used by the Siglent firmware will probably be dictated by the Xilinx Zinq development tools and BSP. This will have likely have been frozen when the development of the SDS1000X-E family was well under way. It all leads to old stuff being in use and is basically the same problem that faces Android. In the future the 6 year support lifetimes of newer kernels will help. Maybe. Like most IoT devices it's probably best not to connect it to an Internet connected network...
 

Offline firstcolle

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2017, 09:38:48 am »
hi,

I wan to to change my 2 channel DSO (OWON SDS7102v) with a 4 channels one + serial decoding. Would you suggest this new Siglent SDS1104X-E or should I go with the older RIGOL DS1054Z?

thanks
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2017, 11:32:03 am »
I wan to to change my 2 channel DSO (OWON SDS7102v) with a 4 channels one + serial decoding. Would you suggest this new Siglent SDS1104X-E or should I go with the older RIGOL DS1054Z?

a) What do you use it for?

b) They're not in the same price range, so: How much money you got? For the price of the Siglent you could have a Rigol and a really good multimeter (...or an awsome soldering iron, or a proper power supply, etc.)

 

Offline firstcolle

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2017, 02:29:46 pm »
Quote from: Fungus link=topic=99318.msg1365310#msg1365310 d :=\ate=1512300723
I wan to to change my 2 channel DSO (OWON SDS7102v) with a 4 channels one + serial decoding. Would you suggest this new Siglent SDS1104X-E or should I go with the older RIGOL DS1054Z?

a) What do you use it for?

b) They're not in the same price range, so: How much money you got? For the price of the Siglent you could have a Rigol and a really good multimeter (...or an awsome soldering iron, or a proper power supply, etc.)

I use It for hobby projects most of them digital with SPI/i2c interface and for repairing audio equipement.

I allready have a solderind station, PSU (dp832) and waveform gen (dg1022z).

Budget 500€ more or less.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2017, 05:40:05 pm »
Budget 500€ more or less.

Seems to me like you already decided on the Siglent.
 

Offline MARSHALBSB

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 06:53:50 am »
I just love this episode. This one looks like very hackable. Very nice job Dave. Someone note anything weird with the audio?
 

Offline firstcolle

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 07:41:25 am »
Budget 500€ more or less.

Seems to me like you already decided on the Siglent.

I do not know .. is it worth spending $ 150 extra?
 

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 08:22:38 am »
Budget 500€ more or less.

Seems to me like you already decided on the Siglent.

I do not know .. is it worth spending $ 150 extra?
Download and print both datasheets.
Then compare spec for spec and the opportunity to add options later that you may or not need.
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 09:07:07 am »
... Then - when you have come up with a sense of where the features and specifications are leading you - throw in the known, mature state of the Rigol firmware against the unknown state of the new release Siglent - and how responsive Siglent will be in addressing issues.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2017, 11:02:56 am »
... Then - when you have come up with a sense of where the features and specifications are leading you - throw in the known, mature state of the Rigol firmware against the unknown state of the new release Siglent - and how responsive Siglent will be in addressing issues.
I'd like to see a comprehensive review of the unit. There don't seem to be any out there. Little things like how the XY mode is performing should tell us a lot.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2017, 11:38:07 am »
I do not know .. is it worth spending $ 150 extra?
Download and print both datasheets.
Then compare spec for spec and the opportunity to add options later that you may or not need.

That won't help much. The specs aren't really very different. Is a tiny bit more X really worth $150? Does a tiny difference in Y equate to $150 of value in real life?

I don't think either will disappoint but the Siglent is a bit too new.

I'd like to see a comprehensive review of the unit. There don't seem to be any out there. Little things like how the XY mode is performing should tell us a lot.
So would lots of people but they simply don't exist yet.

The two channel model has been out for a while and apparently had a lot of bugs. Have they been fixed? We don't know and the few Siglent owners on here aren't telling. (What's up with that? Where's the endless threads dealing with those things?  :-// )
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2017, 05:35:07 pm »
I do not know .. is it worth spending $ 150 extra?
Download and print both datasheets.
Then compare spec for spec and the opportunity to add options later that you may or not need.

That won't help much. The specs aren't really very different. Is a tiny bit more X really worth $150? Does a tiny difference in Y equate to $150 of value in real life?
What a load of one-eyed codswallop.  :P

See new comparison table:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1366057/#msg1366057
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 07:32:25 pm »
See new comparison table:

Jeez, talk about cherry picking and list-padding.  :scared:

a) How come there's no red ink on the Siglent side when the Rigol wins? (eg. "Price", "High res mode", etc.)  :-//

b) All those things marked as "optional" on the Rigol side are easily unlockable. Just enter a magic code and suddenly a load of red ink moves over to the Siglent side.

PS: No disclaimer about being a Siglent dealer when you post this stuff?
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2017, 07:36:31 pm »
PS: No disclaimer about being a Siglent dealer when you post this stuff?
::)
You'd be best to have "show signatures" turned on in your profile.
Not to do so means you miss ALL the disclaimers that members show in each and every post.

FFS Get with it man !
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2017, 09:05:43 pm »
See new comparison table:

Jeez, talk about cherry picking and list-padding.  :scared:

a) How come there's no red ink on the Siglent side when the Rigol wins? (eg. "Price", "High res mode", etc.)  :-//


Rigol "High-Res" is nothing but display "cleaner".

Show me data from Rigol Zbox where is produce more than 8 bit vertical data.

About price. Why color Rigol green because it is more cheap. It is very much too expensive if we look performance. Of course it is more cheap and with its performance it need be much more cheap.  They are like david and goljat without even any doupt. Totally.

But why you are so interested about it. Why you want all buy it. I do not at all want that all buy Siglent. Never.
I think you have your scope and many ways you have told you are happy with it. Your Rigol is now even better than time when you have purchased it. Be happy with it.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #66 on: December 05, 2017, 12:51:27 am »
Having just watched the Signal Path RTB2K review, I think we need a standard set of tests designed to show the effects of various compromises.  No instrument is the best in all respects except the one that doesn't exist.

Marketing and sales want everyone to believe otherwise.  Users want to know what will meet their needs.
 

Offline firstcolle

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2017, 04:13:07 pm »
Ordered just now the Siglent SDS1104X-E.. I have 30 days to try and return if I'll not satisfied.. in this case, I'll go with the rigol.

also ordered one 121GW.. happy christmas to me!! :D
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2017, 05:22:34 pm »
Ordered just now the Siglent SDS1104X-E.. I have 30 days to try and return if I'll not satisfied.. in this case, I'll go with the rigol.

also ordered one 121GW.. happy christmas to me!! :D

Be sure to check that they included all the capacitors. If not, ask them to post the missing ones to you so you can solder them in by yourself.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2017, 07:48:40 pm »
Ordered just now the Siglent SDS1104X-E.. I have 30 days to try and return if I'll not satisfied.. in this case, I'll go with the rigol.

also ordered one 121GW.. happy christmas to me!! :D

Be sure to check that they included all the capacitors. If not, ask them to post the missing ones to you so you can solder them in by yourself.
Again rabbiting on about something you know F...all about.
All new production units have the compensation issue sorted including all four channel X-E model prior to release. Only the two channel models were ever affected.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2017, 08:50:53 pm »
Well there are a whole bunch of footprints without parts so you never know what will turn up at some point  >:D  :popcorn:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline smarteebit

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2017, 03:19:27 am »
Am I watching Siglent's dealer and Rigol's fighting here?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2017, 03:25:27 am »
Am I watching Siglent's dealer and Rigol's fighting here?
Basically, yeah, and some fanboys.
 

Offline Factotum

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2018, 07:05:12 am »
So

* Any news on a shootout?
* Who here in Oz has the Siglent?
* Any discount for EEVblog folks?  ;D

 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2018, 07:16:37 am »
So

* Any news on a shootout?
* Who here in Oz has the Siglent?
* Any discount for EEVblog folks?  ;D
Trio are the master AU distributors with resellers dotted around the country.
Where to buy:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/lxwms.aspx?id=616

There don't openly offer one on the forum so you'd have to look at whether the 6% that Saelig offer plus the shipping to OZ makes it worthwhile or just get one locally.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/
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Offline CharlieEcho

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2018, 05:30:20 pm »
Whelp, these are dangerous waters for a first post! I've read this and the related threads with great interest.

I'm very interested in comparison of the Siglent 1104x-e v. Rigol 1000z options v. Micsig TO1104 head to head. I wonder if the DS1074Z Plus or DS1074Z-S Plus might be the best deals on the Rigol side right now? Those are the configurations that support the MSO upgrade and also have function generation, respectively.  (My understanding is that the Rigol function generator is a factory hardware option, as is the presence of the port for the MSO harness.) Presuming the Riglol hacks, the Siglent plus the external signal generator is within $50 of the DS1074Z-S Plus hacked to full BW (Amazon pricing). 

I'd also be interested in comparison to a  Keysight DSO1024A as a reference, which can be found used w/a limited warranty for around $800 after S/H, tax etc in the US right now. And I suppose at that point, the Siglent 11204x-e as well which is around the same price from Saelig. Perhaps that's the best absolute value if one's budget can stretch? All of these choices are within reasonable reach of the others, although dongles like the Siglent generator can be purchased later to spread out the cost, and of course adding Keysight options is prohibitively expensive.

Possibly there's a practical advantage for rank beginners with Keysight in that a lot of downloadable course material contains procedures for either Agilent/Keysight or Tek control panels & menus. And along the same lines, there might be a practical advantage for the Micsig is that it makes automotive tinkering or field use much more inviting. The latter being interesting to me as an inactive ham operator looking to get into back into that hobby with mobile SDR and embedded IOT radio stuff.

I guess there's the Instek too, but at a glance it seems to offer less overall. Possibly I'm being suckered by shiny things and community enthusiasm for Rigol and Siglent as a newbie. I haven't looked further.

A final thought: might the current Rigol promotion suggest a new series is coming after March? (But if so, it probably won't be as hackable, one would expect.)  :phew:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 06:49:48 pm by CharlieEcho »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2018, 06:23:24 pm »
I think that pretty much any FPGA based scope is hackable.  Most of  the T&M OEMs are using the embedded Linux toolchain provided by the FPGA vendor.
The only question is how much work is it.  My Rigol DS1102E does not appear to be running Linux, but I haven't really probed it very thoroughly.  I know that Siglent is using embedded Linux in the SSA-3000X, but don't know about the scopes.

I had the good luck to buy an Instek GDS-2072E from Amazon for $222 plus tax expressly for use as a test system for developing open source software for the GDS-2000E line.  I do NOT intend to replace all the factory software. My intent is to be able to fix bugs and add features.  So if a binary blob works, it stays untouched.  I have an MSO-2204EA as motivation and tool for the task and lots of *nix experience.

A *very* cursory inspection of the FW update files for the GDS-2000E suggests it is not difficult to create custom FW updates.
 
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Offline CharlieEcho

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #77 on: January 21, 2018, 07:02:52 pm »
Yes, but that's *real* hacking. Beyond my capabilities.

 As opposed to an easy keygen that Rigol seems content to ignore. We (probably?) won't see that in a new series of Rigol scopes aimed at Siglent's offerings. Although I suppose we might just see more features included, or routinely available through promotions instead. The current 1000z series Rigol promotion is amusing that way: they're throwing in all the features w/full licensing since they'll be unlocked anyway.

Well, except the BW upgrade.  :-/O

Given the cost of the AFG options for both Rigol and Siglent, a fully standalone alternative seems like a better buy. That leaves the MSO addons / serial decoding as the other option to compare --  my understanding is that  Siglent's serial decoding has been observed to be much more responsive than Rigols  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796), although I don't know if that performance is unique to the 4ch 200MHz Siglent.

In a vacuum, that would suggest that the upgraded/updated Siglent is the way to go -- but again one can now snag a Keysight at the same price. Though without a full warranty, and fewer bells and whistles (if I'm reading all the product info and etc correctly). And of course smaller screen and older USB. Plus, while I don't see much discussion of that model, my takeaway from other teardowns of recent budget Keysight gear suggests it's rebadged gear anyway.  :-//
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 07:22:14 pm by CharlieEcho »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #78 on: January 21, 2018, 07:22:37 pm »
It depends a bit on the intended use (hobby or commercial environment) and how much money you want to spend. IMHO Siglent and Rigol are not the brands to look at if you need a device which just works. Spending a bit more on a Keysight, Tektronix, R&S or a GW Instek will get you a device which works as advertised.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2018, 07:23:32 pm »
Given the cost of the AFG options for both Rigol and Siglent, a fully standalone alternative seems like a better buy.
Nice to see someone who's done a good amount of homework.  :)

Yes, I've always thought a standalone the way to go if you want a fully featured AWG. Of course you also have more output capability and second channel. Plus if you go down the time nut path, the standalone's allow for a 10MHz reference input.

Quote
That leaves the MSO addons / serial decoding as the other option to compare --  my understanding is that  Siglent's serial decoding has been observed to be much more responsive than Rigols  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796), although I don't know if that performance is unique to the 4ch 200MHz Siglent.
Processor speed, pure and simple.

Quote
In a vacuum, that would suggest that the upgraded/updated Siglent is the way to go -- but again one can now snag a Keysight at the same price. Though without a full warranty, and fewer bells and whistles (if I'm reading all the product info and etc correctly).  :-//
The only thing I think you may have overlooked is the internal architecture, that is, the 4ch SDS1*04X-E has 2x 1Gsa/s ASCI's so in any usage configuration the lowest sampling is 500 Msa/s.
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Offline CharlieEcho

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2018, 08:07:10 pm »
Appreciate the responses!

I'm far from having commercial requirements, my interest in the Keysight is mostly because it's available at the same price as the 200MHz Signlent, and that seems like a recent phenomenon. It's hard to tell from Keysight's promotional materials just how equivalent the standard features are, which is what you get for the price. But more digging on the forums here suggests that the DSO1024 is a Rigol DS1204B re-badge, so at that point I'd think I'd be better off with the more recent Rigol or Siglent in widespread use by hobbyists...

It's news to me that GWI scopes are regarded as being closer in quality to A/K or Tek than Rigol or Siglent but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

Ignoring the signal generation but retaining the MSO options means the point of comparison is the DS1074Z Plus (if I'm correct that you have to buy that factory model for hardware compatibility with the software upgrade option and the external interface). So around $520 vs. $500 for the 100MHz Siglent, or $750 for the 200 MHz. (See below.)

It can all be a bit bewildering, heh. I think I'm leaning towards the upgraded Siglent, and then maybe the tablet on a holiday sale down the road when I've learned enough for real-world experiments (presuming it continues to get favorable reviews), but I'll probably try to make myself wait for a few more reviews and comparisons to show up before I decide.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 08:25:49 pm by CharlieEcho »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2018, 08:21:32 pm »
Yes, but that's *real* hacking. Beyond my capabilities.

 As opposed to an easy keygen that Rigol seems content to ignore.

nb. The Rigol MSO/Plus models don't work with the easy keygen, only the base models do (ie. the plain DS1054Z).
 
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Offline CharlieEcho

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #82 on: January 21, 2018, 08:24:16 pm »
Ah. Well, that's good to know! Appreciate it. That would make the DS11094Z plus the point of comparison for a Rigol that will operate at 100MHz and support the MSO upgrade. $670 list. At which point the appeal of the 200MHz Siglent is hard to ignore.

One more note, for anyone else weighing the same decision - according to this Keysight comparison chart - the Rigol's don't do CAN or LIN -- not something I saw highlighted elsewhere, although maybe I just tuned it out.

Quote
Nice to see someone who's done a good amount of homework.  :)

If I have a clue it's because of everyone's excellent blog posts and video reviews and the extensive discussions here.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 08:37:24 pm by CharlieEcho »
 

Offline edgelog

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #83 on: January 21, 2018, 08:34:07 pm »
nb. The Rigol MSO/Plus models don't work with the easy keygen, only the base models do (ie. the plain DS1054Z).

Yes, they do (at least the MSO), with a slight change in the search string that rigup uses.
 

Offline CharlieEcho

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #84 on: January 21, 2018, 08:42:10 pm »
Hmm. I will do more reading.

Although the additional serial decode modes may tip the scales for me. In which case, it's the Keysight with its smaller screen,no network support, but deeper sample rate  (2G/1G vs 1G/5M) or the Siglent with its larger screen, new internals, wifi & ethernet, and additional upgrade availability... but half the sample rate... :scared:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 09:10:50 pm by CharlieEcho »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2018, 09:26:57 pm »
Samplerate is least important. It is fine for as long as the samplerate is at least 2.5 times the bandwidth on a modern DSO.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2018, 12:33:49 am »
I bought one of Leo Bodnar's 40 pS  rise time pulse generators.  So just to be mean and further confuse the OP, here is a plot of the 10%-90% rise time of a plain vanilla Instek GDS-2072E. 

I bought the Instek from Amazon during one of their price reductions for $222 + tax. It is running the V 1.24 FW.  I have not made any changes.  I bought  it to test creating an open source software stack without endangering my MSO-2204EA which cost 5x as much.  But I'm still reorganizing my work area to accommodate an influx of new gear.  So the 2072E has only been powered on for an hour or two.

The measured rise time of 2.3 nS corresponds to a BW of 152 MHz, over twice the 70 MHz spec. The MSO-2204EA has a rise time of 1.70 nS which is 204 MHz, just slightly above spec.  The plot is with averaging of 256 samples.

FWIW the FFT on the Instek GDS/MDO/MSO-2000E line is quite good.  It could be better which is one of my goals.  The Rigol FFT is too short to be useful.  I can't say about the Siglent.

Leo's pulse generator comes with a plot on a Tek CSA803 showing the actual rise time of the unit you bought.  Mine is 36 pS.  For the price it is a hell of a good deal.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2018, 02:04:36 am »
The measured rise time of 2.3 nS corresponds to a BW of 152 MHz, over twice the 70 MHz spec. The MSO-2204EA has a rise time of 1.70 nS which is 204 MHz, just slightly above spec.  The plot is with averaging of 256 samples.

I have noticed before that these cheap DSOs usually or always have a bandwidth which varies considerably at different vertical attenuator settings; I suspect the specifications give the worst case value.  But testing this requires a higher voltage source and a set of RF attenuators.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2018, 02:37:14 am »
A s I understand a comment by Leo, a fast rise time pulse generator over 5-6 V is an ITAR regulated device.  I have  3-4 Pomona 6 dB attenuators, so I can go down, but no convenient way to go up.

I'm sure that R&S, Tek and Keysight sell instruments which meet the top end spec and are software limited.  I'm skeptical that is true for low end Chinese stuff. I suspect that if you tested a bunch of BW "hacked"  gear you'd find that it didn't meet the higher spec.  I've seen assertions about the results of "hacking", but I've never seen a rise time plot or similar.

I do have a couple of Tek 106s.  I've not tried to use one in 10-15 years, so no idea if they still work.  Also no idea where the adaptor might be.  Last time I used one was doing a post repair cal on a Tek 465 and a Dumont 1060.

[edit]  Tektronix held the analytic solution of the effects of large inputs on the attenuator section as a trade secret for a long time.  I'm not willing to go on a hunt the wumpus to find the paper, but as I recall, it was a really nasty series of Bessel functions having to do with heating changing the component values..  In any case, anyone who thinks the attenuator section of a high speed scope is easy to build doesn't have a clue.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 03:18:58 am by rhb »
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2018, 03:23:26 am »
A s I understand a comment by Leo, a fast rise time pulse generator over 5-6 V is an ITAR regulated device.  I have  3-4 Pomona 6 dB attenuators, so I can go down, but no convenient way to go up.

I know someone who could not import some 40+ year old Tektronix gear to the US where it was made because it had tunnel diodes and he mentioned this in the documentation.  He was after the tunnel diodes to fix other Tektronix gear.  Even if ITAR does not cover it, customers officials are more likely to error on the side of prohibition and convincing them otherwise is expensive even when they are wrong.  They are not paid to not block imports and exports.

At higher voltages, the common fast reference edge generation circuits are much slower but of course 300ps is plenty fast for 100 to 200 MHz testing.  But still anything above 5 volts is tough and most are still only up to 1 volt.

Quote
I'm sure that R&S, Tek and Keysight sell instruments which meet the top end spec and are software limited.  I'm skeptical that is true for low end Chinese stuff. I suspect that if you tested a bunch of BW "hacked"  gear you'd find that it didn't meet the higher spec.  I've seen assertions about the results of "hacking", but I've never seen a rise time plot or similar.

The only example I have seen online where a hacked Rigol DS1054Z was tested properly showed a nonlinearity in the edge which I suspect came from saturation or cutoff of the preamplifer so the transient response test showing greater than 100 MHz bandwidth revealed a real problem which I would have completely failed an oscilloscope for having.

I do not see anything like that in your test but that 2ns long dip immediately after the edge is not right.  Below is an example of bad transient response in a 100 MHz Tektronix 465 which likely just needs calibration and almost good transient response in a 100 MHz Tektronix 2232.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: EEVblog #1042 - Siglent's $499 SDS1104X-E 4CH Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2018, 03:36:42 am »
I'm planning to do an FFT of the response.  I'll have to digitize the trace Leo sent me by hand to do a proper job of extracting the transfer function, but that 4 nS wobble is an anomaly at 250 MHz.  So still damn good for a cheap scope.  At $222 + tax, an exceptional deal. I sort of feel guilty, but I'm hoping that the results of my efforts will make up for depriving someone else of the deal.

But I very much agree about how hard it is.  I got handed my head on a platter when I tried to build a fast rise piulse long ago.

Fixing the Tek and the Dumont was some of the best education I ever got.
 


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