EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway

[EEVblog]

Dave finally puts an end to the idea of Solar Roadways.
We have the test results of the world's biggest solar roadways project, the 1km long 336kW Colas Wattway project in Tourouvre France.
Stand in awe at how impractical and expensive it is!, and SPOILER, how it won't usher in a new era of renewable solar technology.
TLDR; Impractical Folly

[rx8pilot]

The general public does not get much past the headlines - and it sounds so cool.

The reality gets buried in the excitement and when $5million is on the line - somebody will line up to accept it every time.

[hermit]

The mistake was they didn't get a proper dowser to show what parts of what roadways would work best when panelized.

[prof]

Hi Dave,

while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Just my 2¢...

[apelly]

There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.

If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

[apelly]

There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.

If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

[EEVblog]

while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Would you like me to do a video pointing up on Google maps all the government roof space available?
Not to mention putting the panel, you know, over the road.

I am not missing the point, I'm bang on. Only an idiot would put solar panel on the road instead of on roofs and poles.

[apelly]

There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.

If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

Edit: Dave beat me to it.

[nctnico]

There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.

If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.

[james_s]

Finally busted? I thought Dave (and others) had busted this before, then busted it some more, and further busted it.

To whatever proponents remain, no amount of busting will change their mind because it has become a religious debate with them.

It was a dumb idea to start with, it will always be a dumb idea. I can see some of the tech being useful as artistic installations or some very niche applications where it could be in a pedestrian walkway but no way it would ever make sense as a road to generate useful power.

[james_s]

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.

So put them on the walls of buildings? Far from optimal, but much better than putting them in roads. The numbers just don't add up, putting panels in roads will never work, unless the roads aren't actually driven on.

[hermit]

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.

The numbers just don't add up

That is the salient point.  Solar roadways may be better than 'nothing' but far from better than current alternatives. Don't get hung up on EU roof space.  Electricity is highly portable.

[nctnico]

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.

so put them on the walls of buildings? Far from optimal, but much better than putting them in roads. The numbers just don't add up, putting panels in roads will never work, unless the roads aren't actually driven on.

I highlighted the part you missed 

@hermit: electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.

[james_s]

Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas and then the structure has to be strong in places where snow is possible and you're still building a dedicated structure when it doesn't really make sense to do so. Forget about roads entirely, there are all kinds of more sensible places to put solar panels.

[jonovid]

maybe solar voltaic clothing will make the 2018 paris catwalk with footwear by batteroo! truly electrifying.
of course we will be waiting for Dave to crunch the numbers. as the lives of many-a smartphone depend on it.

[Brumby]

Have you no shame? 

[tszaboo]

This one is 3.3GWh per year for about 3km.
There is 30.000 km of railway network in France.

[hermit]

@hermit: electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.

The infrastructure is already in place and the efficiency difference between solar road and solar farm will offset that cost pretty quickly.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-longest-power-transmission-lines-4167964/

[NiHaoMike]

electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.

In other words, the best place to put solar panels is very close to where most of the loads are - on buildings.

[coppice]

Hi Dave,

while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Just my 2¢...

You appear to be from Germany. I've seen a lot of sane solar road around Munich. Instead of covering the actual driving surface, they cover the substantial areas between the driving surface and the fence, that are at the side of any Autobahn outside the dense urban areas. When this area is an embankment they use just one side of the road, but they can get natural tilting of the panels towards the sun when the road is in the right direction. Their land costs are obviously zero. Their land utilisation is effectively zero, since the space can't be used for much else. They can maintain the system without shutting down the road. They can easily replace parts of the system which have a lower life than the panels (e.g. inverters). Their costs must be as low as any other solar farm.

[jonovid]

Have you no shame? 

   will there be more Batterizer videos too .. Dave ?    why repeat yourself 

[Brumby]

 

[nctnico]

Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas and then the structure has to be strong in places where snow is possible and you're still building a dedicated structure when it doesn't really make sense to do so. Forget about roads entirely, there are all kinds of more sensible places to put solar panels.

Like where? And for a minute assume you are in New York city and covering central park with solar panels is not an option. That is the situation in most of West Europe.
Where Dave goes wrong in his debunking is that he is from Australia where space to put solar panels is not an issue at all. If you factor in the costs of space for solar panels the outcome of the equation may be that solar roadways do make sense in some areas.

[senso]

This busted crap videos are annoying, dont be surprised when you lose viewership when half your videos you sound like a lunatic ranting about some useless crap.

[max_torque]

Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas

Really?

I often look out the window and think, gosh, that multi-lane high way is looking Sooooooo Beautiful today: