Author Topic: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway  (Read 28928 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33419
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« on: December 19, 2017, 06:48:04 am »
Dave finally puts an end to the idea of Solar Roadways.
We have the test results of the world's biggest solar roadways project, the 1km long 336kW Colas Wattway project in Tourouvre France.
Stand in awe at how impractical and expensive it is!, and SPOILER, how it won't usher in a new era of renewable solar technology.
TLDR; Impractical Folly

 
The following users thanked this post: SeanB

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3625
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2017, 07:21:20 am »
The general public does not get much past the headlines - and it sounds so cool.

The reality gets buried in the excitement and when $5million is on the line - somebody will line up to accept it every time.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline hermit

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 482
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 05:07:24 pm »
The mistake was they didn't get a proper dowser to show what parts of what roadways would work best when panelized.
 

Offline prof

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 10:52:22 pm »
Hi Dave,

while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Just my 2¢...
 
The following users thanked this post: julianhigginson

Offline apelly

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 11:07:08 pm »
There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.
If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 

Offline apelly

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 11:03:53 pm »
There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.
If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 33419
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 11:08:41 pm »
while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Would you like me to do a video pointing up on Google maps all the government roof space available?
Not to mention putting the panel, you know, over the road.

I am not missing the point, I'm bang on. Only an idiot would put solar panel on the road instead of on roofs and poles.

 
The following users thanked this post: SeanB, thm_w

Offline apelly

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 11:14:31 pm »
There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.
If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

Edit: Dave beat me to it.
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21576
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 12:18:14 am »
There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm.
If there aren't any roofs there already, you probably don't want the power anyway.

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16170
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 12:20:33 am »
Finally busted? I thought Dave (and others) had busted this before, then busted it some more, and further busted it.

To whatever proponents remain, no amount of busting will change their mind because it has become a religious debate with them.

It was a dumb idea to start with, it will always be a dumb idea. I can see some of the tech being useful as artistic installations or some very niche applications where it could be in a pedestrian walkway but no way it would ever make sense as a road to generate useful power.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16170
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 12:22:55 am »

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.

So put them on the walls of buildings? Far from optimal, but much better than putting them in roads. The numbers just don't add up, putting panels in roads will never work, unless the roads aren't actually driven on.
 

Offline hermit

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 482
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 01:06:33 am »

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.
The numbers just don't add up
That is the salient point.  Solar roadways may be better than 'nothing' but far from better than current alternatives. Don't get hung up on EU roof space.  Electricity is highly portable.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21576
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 01:21:51 am »

The problem with that reasoning is that in the EU the roof space per person is really small so solar panels on roofs only will not be enough. Not by a long shot. Also much of the land which would be suitable for large solar installations is either a nature reserve or in use for agricultural purposes. That leaves using the roads as large open spaces. It would be nice of someone could run some numbers on the cost of putting solar panels over the road. That could be double effective because when you drive in the shade you don't need the airconditioning to work that hard and it can keep rain & snow away from the roads making them safer.
so put them on the walls of buildings? Far from optimal, but much better than putting them in roads. The numbers just don't add up, putting panels in roads will never work, unless the roads aren't actually driven on.
I highlighted the part you missed  ;D

@hermit: electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16170
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 01:30:55 am »
Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas and then the structure has to be strong in places where snow is possible and you're still building a dedicated structure when it doesn't really make sense to do so. Forget about roads entirely, there are all kinds of more sensible places to put solar panels.
 
The following users thanked this post: NiHaoMike

Offline jonovid

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 995
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 03:04:56 am »
maybe solar voltaic clothing will make the 2018 paris catwalk with footwear by batteroo! truly electrifying.
of course we will be waiting for Dave to crunch the numbers. as the lives of many-a smartphone depend on it.
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 
The following users thanked this post: SeanB, JPortici

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11195
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 03:37:20 am »
Have you no shame?  :palm:
 

Online tszaboo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5620
  • Country: nl
  • Current job: ATEX certified product design
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 04:07:52 am »

This one is 3.3GWh per year for about 3km.
There is 30.000 km of railway network in France.
Former username: NANDBlog
 

Offline hermit

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 482
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 04:39:01 am »
@hermit: electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.
The infrastructure is already in place and the efficiency difference between solar road and solar farm will offset that cost pretty quickly.
https://www.power-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-longest-power-transmission-lines-4167964/
 

Offline NiHaoMike

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7493
  • Country: us
  • "Don't turn it on - Take it apart!"
    • Facebook Page
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 06:39:59 am »
electricity is not highly portable. A very large chunk of what you pay for your electricity are distribution costs. Put the power source further away and the costs will increase rapidly.
In other words, the best place to put solar panels is very close to where most of the loads are - on buildings.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6503
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 10:36:50 am »
Hi Dave,

while you're completely right that it's more expensive and less practical than a solar farm, you're still somewhat missing the point: There're plenty of areas where you actually can't (due to free space constraints) or don't want (for ecological reasons) erect a solar farm. When the choice is between no solar energy or more expensive and less practical solar energy, the latter might be the better option.

Just my 2¢...
You appear to be from Germany. I've seen a lot of sane solar road around Munich. Instead of covering the actual driving surface, they cover the substantial areas between the driving surface and the fence, that are at the side of any Autobahn outside the dense urban areas. When this area is an embankment they use just one side of the road, but they can get natural tilting of the panels towards the sun when the road is in the right direction. Their land costs are obviously zero. Their land utilisation is effectively zero, since the space can't be used for much else. They can maintain the system without shutting down the road. They can easily replace parts of the system which have a lower life than the panels (e.g. inverters). Their costs must be as low as any other solar farm.
 
The following users thanked this post: SeanB, Dubbie, Jacon

Offline jonovid

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 995
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 10:48:27 am »
Have you no shame?  :palm:

 :palm:  will there be more Batterizer videos too .. Dave ?  ???  why repeat yourself  :=\
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11195
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 12:50:17 pm »
 :palm:
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21576
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 01:45:51 pm »
Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas and then the structure has to be strong in places where snow is possible and you're still building a dedicated structure when it doesn't really make sense to do so. Forget about roads entirely, there are all kinds of more sensible places to put solar panels.
Like where? And for a minute assume you are in New York city and covering central park with solar panels is not an option. That is the situation in most of West Europe.
Where Dave goes wrong in his debunking is that he is from Australia where space to put solar panels is not an issue at all. If you factor in the costs of space for solar panels the outcome of the equation may be that solar roadways do make sense in some areas.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline senso

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: pt
    • My AVR tutorials
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 02:54:01 pm »
This busted crap videos are annoying, dont be surprised when you lose viewership when half your videos you sound like a lunatic ranting about some useless crap.
 

Offline max_torque

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1180
  • Country: gb
    • bitdynamics
Re: EEVblog #1047 - Solar Roadways FINALLY BUSTED Colas Wattway
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 02:55:56 pm »
Putting them over roads could work in some cases, but would be considered unsightly in a lot of areas

Really?

I often look out the window and think, gosh, that multi-lane high way is looking Sooooooo Beautiful today:




 :-DD
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf