Author Topic: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review  (Read 11674 times)

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Offline Andrey_irk

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 05:05:40 am »
I have one station at work and find it great to work with. Have no issues with EMI from it.

We also bought 202D soldering stations which are also great. I don't have a lot of experience with expensive soldering stations though. And 202D is way better than fx888 I have at home.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 07:24:22 am »
They look like they make some other itneresting products.

http://www.quick-global.com/product.html
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Offline vze1lryy

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2018, 07:53:26 am »
I prefer a more functional design with rotary encoder knobs replacing the odd guitar pick buttons.  ::)

I would prefer rotary encoder knobs by far as well. The buttons bother me. I forgive them for giving me presets, but still would prefer knobs.

For this station, my biggest complain would be the lack of IEC power input. It is really not hard to use that on every lab equipment. I dont understand how can they release something without that.

That bothers me as well. We used to sell a 220VAC version. 220VAC is fine but people have different electrical sockets in different parts of the world. Many labs have their own IEC cables but not a lot have converter adapters for random plugs from other sides of the world. I can't tell if it is cost cutting measure or laziness.

I've been working with Weller WR3000 stations for 5 years, and their hot air part is a total joke. It is way too loud, and not enough air, and only 400W. Then I tried the Atten 858D+ and it hit me, how much better it was at desoldering then the weller. At the same time, I also had a Metcal iron, and that was also better. I dont know is it fair, to compare a 3 in 1 station with a dedicated hot air? Maybe not, Weller has the WTHA-1 and it is 900W and 3x the price of this.
It just feels like someone slaps you in the face, and shows you something, that works a lot better than what you've been using for a long time.

It is absolutely fair to compare 3-in-1 stations with dedicated hot air, because most of the time you do not save money buying the all-in-one station. It is ok to have equal expectations when it costs as much money.

You can buy the FM-203 from Hakko plus an FR-801 at the time for the same price as an FM-206. So long as the company charges so much for the 3-in-1 that you could have bought discrete tools and spent the same amount of money, it is fair to point out that the 3-in-1 tools provide unusable hot air. The Hakko FR-801 is underpowered in contrast to the Quick or any modern station. But even the FR-801 was far ahead of the FM-206. I tried them both here.

My experience with the WR3000 from Weller was equally disappointing. It costs over $3000. The fact that the hot air is so weak is a slap in the face.

Used those are occasionally available around 1200 Euro and that is quite a bit more than I'm willing to spend. How would the Quick compare to such a station?
Quick beats JBC.

Eeeeeeh. I have a JBC JT-A. It costs about $1600. The quick is under $300.

Is the JBC $1300 better than the Quick? No.
Is the JBC $600 better than the Quick? Maybe.

The handpiece has an antimicrobal texture, and is also slimmer. The Quick 861DW has a fat base. Think of it like trying to write with a sharpie vs. writing with a lysol can. The JBC is quieter, does not cause any disturbance in the room's electricity as well. It's just a higher end piece of kit.

It is egregious that the JBC costs $1600 while the Quick costs $300, but the JBC is better. Especially if you are working on things that require great accuracy, or if you are working for 12 hours a day. It is a joy. I cannot for reasons of practicality justify spending $1600 on a standard desk hot air station, so even though I could afford it, I use the Quick.

Not to mention that the JBC JT-A heating element by itself costs about $205-$220. I'm never buying another JBC station at those prices. I understand if the station were cheap, that they need to make the money back by upping the cost of the heating element. But at $1600+ for the station, $205-$220 for the heating element is an unwelcome kick in the groin.

I take louis' tool recommendations with a grain of salt after he claimed the Hakko (FR-803B?) heats up boards much faster than the 858. Even though it has a terrible diaphragm pump and the heater is rated ~400W, compared to the 858's 700W (about 600W in reality). At least in this video Dave clearly shows the quick 1kW is better than 600W. Probably about what you'd expect with ~50% more power and ~70% more similar air flow, that it would be almost twice as fast.

My claim wasn't that the FR-801 heated boards up faster than the 858, my claim was that the 858 was useless for multilayer board repair. We bought two or three of them for Jessa Jones' classes in 2015 and none of them could remove an ISL6259 given 5 minutes from an 820-3115. I thought the students were messing with me until I tried it myself. I sat there with it on a donor board, preheated the area at full temp for a few minutes from further away, and then spent about five minutes right over the chip. It never came off.

It probably could have been done with hotter pre-heating of the entire board via a hotplate or something, but the fact that it couldn't remove the chip at all at its highest setting was reason enough for me to junk it. I am sure it is fine for hobbyist use or for use on boards that are less vicious but I can't recommend it to the people who want to emulate what I am doing when I could never get it to work on these boards. Especially on an iPhone, even the slightest extra bit of time and you're roasting chips with underfill and having balls expand. Too dangerous and not worth the risk for the $$.

I have no desire to use $650 equipment when a $50 station would do the job, especially when we're spending money on student desks. $50/desk beats $650/desk!

This is the issue I have with the ultra-cheap stations. I can buy the same station at different times and get different results. The quality/consistency from station to station even in the same model is so off that I never know what I'm getting. I read 1 star reviews of these saying it worked terribly and 5 star saying they work great and I believe for each of those individuals, that they were correct. I don't believe that they received the "same" station though, even if they received the same model.

I am open to the idea that changes have been made to the design in the past three years. I'm also open to the idea that all three we received were defective. I still find it hard to believe making that station to where a vendor can profit selling on Amazon for $57 and free shipping can be done with any degree of quality control, so I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 were defects. But the stuff I tried in 2015 was beyond awful for working on any type of Macbook motherboard made after 2010.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:00:54 am by vze1lryy »
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, MT

Offline wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2018, 09:44:48 am »
Eeeeeeh. I have a JBC JT-A. It costs about $1600. The quick is under $300.

Is the JBC $1300 better than the Quick? No.
Is the JBC $600 better than the Quick? Maybe.

The handpiece has an antimicrobal texture, and is also slimmer. The Quick 861DW has a fat base. Think of it like trying to write with a sharpie vs. writing with a lysol can. The JBC is quieter, does not cause any disturbance in the room's electricity as well. It's just a higher end piece of kit.

It is egregious that the JBC costs $1600 while the Quick costs $300, but the JBC is better. Especially if you are working on things that require great accuracy, or if you are working for 12 hours a day. It is a joy. I cannot for reasons of practicality justify spending $1600 on a standard desk hot air station, so even though I could afford it, I use the Quick.

Not to mention that the JBC JT-A heating element by itself costs about $205-$220. I'm never buying another JBC station at those prices. I understand if the station were cheap, that they need to make the money back by upping the cost of the heating element. But at $1600+ for the station, $205-$220 for the heating element is an unwelcome kick in the groin.
I was meaning performance, not feelings. Yes JBC JT-A is slimmer and looks better, but offers only 40% of the max airflow compared to 861DW, no wonder it's quieter. 861DW at such airflow is extremely quiet as well. JBCs max 50l/min is already lower that what I generally use (~60-70l/min), not to say I often use max airflow (120l/min) as well. EDIT: There is a 200l/min version of 861 too, which makes a 4x difference.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 09:58:34 am by wraper »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2018, 09:14:56 pm »
No, the clones make it worse. Most of them actively lie - they WILL NOT show a temperature above the set temperature, and they all overshoot horribly.

But I measured it with a thermocouple and it was fine. Can't say the same for all clones of course, and I believe you that the firmware is probably written to hide problems.

My claim wasn't that the FR-801 heated boards up faster than the 858, my claim was that the 858 was useless for multilayer board repair. We bought two or three of them for Jessa Jones' classes in 2015 and none of them could remove an ISL6259 given 5 minutes from an 820-3115. I thought the students were messing with me until I tried it myself. I sat there with it on a donor board, preheated the area at full temp for a few minutes from further away, and then spent about five minutes right over the chip. It never came off.

It probably could have been done with hotter pre-heating of the entire board via a hotplate or something, but the fact that it couldn't remove the chip at all at its highest setting was reason enough for me to junk it. I am sure it is fine for hobbyist use or for use on boards that are less vicious but I can't recommend it to the people who want to emulate what I am doing when I could never get it to work on these boards. Especially on an iPhone, even the slightest extra bit of time and you're roasting chips with underfill and having balls expand. Too dangerous and not worth the risk for the $$.

I have no desire to use $650 equipment when a $50 station would do the job, especially when we're spending money on student desks. $50/desk beats $650/desk!

This is the issue I have with the ultra-cheap stations. I can buy the same station at different times and get different results. The quality/consistency from station to station even in the same model is so off that I never know what I'm getting. I read 1 star reviews of these saying it worked terribly and 5 star saying they work great and I believe for each of those individuals, that they were correct. I don't believe that they received the "same" station though, even if they received the same model.

I am open to the idea that changes have been made to the design in the past three years. I'm also open to the idea that all three we received were defective. I still find it hard to believe making that station to where a vendor can profit selling on Amazon for $57 and free shipping can be done with any degree of quality control, so I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 were defects. But the stuff I tried in 2015 was beyond awful for working on any type of Macbook motherboard made after 2010.

Interesting. Totally agree that the quality on the 858's is all over the place so getting something consistent is difficult. That is reason enough for you to not use it, or anyone whose job relies on it.
I have seen some users cut out the fan shrouding to presumably improve airflow. Its possible the fan is garbage or there are mold issues restricting airflow. All other things being equal, less air flow could mean the multilayer board would not heat up quickly enough.

thanks for the detailed response!
 

Offline MT

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Re: EEVblog #1058 - Quick 861DW Hot Air Rework Station Review
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2018, 04:23:00 pm »
I wonder if the QICK713 ESD hot air section is the same as in the 861dw...
http://www.quick-global.com/2-rework-system-3.html
 


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