Author Topic: 4K Video Editing PC Build  (Read 19197 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2018, 04:55:07 am »
How about we just say that Dave may not have made the best choice, but he didn't make a bad choice (especially considering the circumstances) ... and move on.

Can anyone actually tell me, ignoring "bang-per-buck", if there is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?
Could I have gotten *better* performance (for my needs) for a *lot less* cost?
Is my CPU or motherboard or memory or drive or cooler fundamentally *unfit for my purpose* in some way?
Because I have yet to hear this in any of the comments.

The arguments all seem to be based on "bang-per-buck", with, at least on the forum here, advocating for an essentially lower performance system.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:01:02 am by EEVblog »
 

Online Brumby

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2018, 04:58:31 am »
I don't have a problem with your build, Dave.  I was just trying to couch some way of phrasing the current "thoughts" so that we could get over this.
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2018, 05:00:30 am »
I don't have a problem with your build, Dave.  I was just trying to couch some way of phrasing the current "thoughts" so that we could get over this.

Yes, I was just using your post as springboard comment to all.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2018, 05:02:22 am »
Fair enough.
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2018, 05:02:37 am »
BTW I just tried an experiment to see if having a 2nd video card made any difference. i.e. having one card (GTX-750ti) running the three screens, and the GTX-1050 doing just the rendering. Zero difference.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #105 on: June 25, 2018, 05:05:58 am »
I have no idea if the CPU/motherboard was a good or bad choice, I'm not up to full speed there and I'm guessing you're not either.

The final PC seemed to work and all the "advice" being presented here about better choices will be outdated in a few months anyway.

I was a bit disappointed by the power supply though. It works, yes, but I'm sure you'd point and laugh if a power supply like that appeared in a mailbag.

(...and it seemed like the PSU you took out was better. What was the problem with it, missing cables?)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:25:21 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #106 on: June 25, 2018, 05:11:00 am »
BTW I just tried an experiment to see if having a 2nd video card made any difference. i.e. having one card (GTX-750ti) running the three screens, and the GTX-1050 doing just the rendering. Zero difference.

Yep. The NVENC encoder won't affected by stuff like that. You might get a bit faster performance with a higher clock speed graphics card but you're probably better off trying to overclock the 750Ti.

(and that's the only tweak that could make any difference on your current setup, IMHO)
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #107 on: June 25, 2018, 05:31:35 am »
Yeah I'm a bit confused - if you preferred the modular PSU that was already there why not just use that?

You could do a test to see if it's louder, but I doubt it would be.

Also please enable XMP so your RAM runs at 3000Mhz
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #108 on: June 25, 2018, 06:12:54 am »
Yeah I'm a bit confused - if you preferred the modular PSU that was already there why not just use that?

I have another use for it, and it's old, so not the best choice for a new machine, so I got a new one.

Quote
Also please enable XMP so your RAM runs at 3000Mhz

I did, the before-after result is in the video.
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #109 on: June 25, 2018, 06:14:13 am »
I was a bit disappointed by the power supply though. It works, yes, but I'm sure you'd point and laugh if a power supply like that appeared in a mailbag.

I would have no clue at all unless I opened it and inspected it. It's that horrible? Like so bad it's going to fail in a year when fairly lightly loaded?
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #110 on: June 25, 2018, 06:14:59 am »
BTW I just tried an experiment to see if having a 2nd video card made any difference. i.e. having one card (GTX-750ti) running the three screens, and the GTX-1050 doing just the rendering. Zero difference.

Yep. The NVENC encoder won't affected by stuff like that.

That's what I suspected, but you don't know until you actually test it.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #111 on: June 25, 2018, 07:05:24 am »
is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?

Those RGB DIMMS have to be the tackiest memory I have ever seen. :-)

Do they do anything else apart from what we saw? 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 07:08:39 am by Towger »
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #112 on: June 25, 2018, 07:58:09 am »
is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?
Those RGB DIMMS have to be the tackiest memory I have ever seen. :-)
Do they do anything else apart from what we saw?

Not that I'm aware. Does anyone know if they can be modded in some way to just stay red or at least do something useful?

EDIT: It seems you can, using an SPD write
http://www.gskill.com/en/download/view/trident-z-rgb-control
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 08:00:36 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline hans

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #113 on: June 25, 2018, 08:07:51 am »
Isn't RGB all the craze because you can control them via software?

Maybe it says something on the box of the memory dimms. It probably suggests you to install some kind of app/bloatware to control a few LED patterns. Perhaps it can show CPU usage or something when you're in Windows, at least that's somewhat useful.

How about we just say that Dave may not have made the best choice, but he didn't make a bad choice (especially considering the circumstances) ... and move on.

Can anyone actually tell me, ignoring "bang-per-buck", if there is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?
Could I have gotten *better* performance (for my needs) for a *lot less* cost?
Is my CPU or motherboard or memory or drive or cooler fundamentally *unfit for my purpose* in some way?
Because I have yet to hear this in any of the comments.

The arguments all seem to be based on "bang-per-buck", with, at least on the forum here, advocating for an essentially lower performance system.

These kind of discussions are the same for when people buy 2nd hand cars. Some would buy German, other Japanese, and finally some people get a French car because they are usually quite cheap.
You can't say what was the right choice at the moment of purchase. You can find out how the car drives, search online for approximation about how reliable the car is and the fuel economy. But that's about it.

Some people have great luck with their French purchase. Others can get top brand model and have endless problems. Some people are strongly opinionated about the subject, and will always say "should have gotten ....".

I think the extra $ you paid for this build, is mainly for the platform. The 7820X dropped pretty severely in price due to the competition offerings (including 8700K, probably). The 7900X is what I would still call an overpriced CPU. Also, mid to high-end X470 boards aren't exactly cheap neither.

You're using quad channel memory, unfortunately can't find any benchmark that correlates memory bandwidth with performance in video workloads. My guess is that it does make some difference, since video processing is usually quite cache size dependent..

Whether the X299 platform is "outdated" or obsolete; that could also be the point. 2700X and X470 is out for only 2 months. Although Ryzen and AM4 as a platform is pretty mature by now, you could still have frequent BIOS revisions on these boards. Something you don't want for a daily production machine or workstation. From the video it seems that this build was plug'n'play and just worked. You could potentially have done a lot worse if you struck on some memory incompatibility issue or something.

So IMO there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the build. It works and it performs according to the review figures. With AMD vs Intel competition now going on, this build is probably "last gen" in about a years time anyway, so what gives.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #114 on: June 25, 2018, 08:38:51 am »
Whether the X299 platform is "outdated" or obsolete; that could also be the point. 2700X and X470 is out for only 2 months. Although Ryzen and AM4 as a platform is pretty mature by now, you could still have frequent BIOS revisions on these boards. Something you don't want for a daily production machine or workstation.

And that's another thing, for those who want to know more about the decision making process.

Last I looked at the AMD offerings was about 6 months ago when I was considering a new machine, so I didn't know much about the new 2700X.
Then when I desperately needed a new machine the other day I looked at the high end CPU benchmark list among other things
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
I had an idea of what I was looking at paying for a CPU, and the 8700X and 2700X were both somewhat below the 7820X, and the 7820X was on special at the local dealer and was within my budget, so it seemed like the best performance for the money I was willing to pay. The i9's were too pricey, as were the Threadrippers. The 8700X and 2700X seemed a bit like "skimping" in terms of performance a just a bit. The 7820X had been around a long time and it had good writeups, so after checking a few more things the 7820X it was. Decision made.

Some may think that's a wrong decision, but to me it was a perfectly acceptable and reasonably thought out one given the last minute decision. And given that no one is saying that the 7820X is not a good performer, again the only argument that seems to be left is bang-per-buck, and I was deliberately not really shooting for that as the absolute driving requirement, I was shooting for the best processor for a given price bracket. So if anyone want to continue to discuss based on that methodology then feel free to do so.

Once the processor was chosen, the motherboard was the best reasonable price one they had in stock to match.
Memory likewise, but no one seems to be complaining about that choice, or the SDD choice. A few grumbled on the cooler but my test results say it's just fine as I expected.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 08:42:31 am by EEVblog »
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #115 on: June 25, 2018, 08:47:08 am »
So you just pulled the most expensive i7 you could see out of a hat and went with it.
Fine. Okay. 10 minutes research would've saved you some money - and four pages of this.

I could have saved money, at the expense of performance. Please show me an overall more powerful CPU than the 7820X for the same price.
I'm having a hard time seeing it:

 

Online wraper

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #116 on: June 25, 2018, 09:51:04 am »
So you just pulled the most expensive i7 you could see out of a hat and went with it.
Fine. Okay. 10 minutes research would've saved you some money - and four pages of this.

I could have saved money, at the expense of performance. Please show me an overall more powerful CPU than the 7820X for the same price.
I'm having a hard time seeing it:
You could buy a machine with better performance for your workload for much less. 6 core i7-8700k when using GPU encoding as it has much better single thread performance. Or you could get around the same overall performance for much less with Ryzen 2700x, GPU encoding speed might hurt a little bit because it has lower single core boost clock.  That screenshot is pretty much meaningless, passmark is one piece of useless benchmark.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 10:24:21 am by wraper »
 

Online wraper

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #117 on: June 25, 2018, 10:04:07 am »
Can anyone actually tell me, ignoring "bang-per-buck", if there is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?
CPU fan mounted incorrect way and working against cooler on the back and crappy PSU for a machine this expensive.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #118 on: June 25, 2018, 10:17:44 am »
Can anyone actually tell me, ignoring "bang-per-buck", if there is anything fundamentally "wrong" about my build?
CPU fan mounted incorrect way and working against cooler on the back and crappy PSU for a machine this expensive.

I fixed the fan, and it cools just fine, data in the latest video.
Ok, so it's probably a crappy PSU, the world won't end.
 

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #119 on: June 25, 2018, 10:35:04 am »
You could buy a machine with better performance for your workload for much less. 6 core i7-8700k when using GPU encoding as it has much better single thread performance.

Perhaps, please quantify "much better".

It seems not.
The 7820X has higher fps in 4k encoding, AES encryption, ZIP, and WinRAR as examples.









 

Online wraper

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #120 on: June 25, 2018, 10:43:21 am »
You could buy a machine with better performance for your workload for much less. 6 core i7-8700k when using GPU encoding as it has much better single thread performance.

Perhaps, please quantify "much better".

It seems not.
The 7820X has higher fps in 4k encoding, AES encryption, ZIP, and WinRAR as examples.
None of those use Vegas and/or GPU for video encoding. As said before, you need good single thread performance as how you do things right now, therefore 8700k would perform well. Also those are not recent enough, there is no Ryzen 2700X.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 10:59:26 am by wraper »
 

Online wraper

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #121 on: June 25, 2018, 10:51:19 am »
Some other tests:




 

Offline mariush

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #122 on: June 25, 2018, 11:03:54 am »
Should also keep in mind that you don't really know if they updated those scores in the last months.

Since the vulnerabilities and exploits for Spectre and all those other, Windows shoved lots of updates to fix those and there's a bunch of bios updates that in some cases can lower performance by 5-20% on Intel processors. AMD is not that affected, if at all.

Also HEVC encoder (used in the pictures above for handbrake test) uses AVX512 if present and benefits from it. Ryzen processors can process AVX 512 instructions if I remember correctly, but there's some quirk, like having half the bus width or something that basically results in half the avx512 performance more or less.  AVX512 instructions are not a huge part, i don't know, maybe 20-30% of overall cpu usage when encoding hevc , but they do give the Intel cpus a boost on HEVC encoding.

h264 doesn't use this AVX512 that much, so that hevc benchmark may not paint a good picture for you as you're encoding h264.

Oh, and also note those avx512 instructions do help but they also use a ton of power so the cpu may have to throttle down its frequencies if those instructions are used. Ryzen processors don't suffer from that.

At performance / price paid for mb+cpu , AMD wins.  At performance / electricity used, amd probably wins or is neck and neck, depending on encoding settings.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #123 on: June 25, 2018, 11:06:43 am »
Could I have gotten *better* performance (for my needs) for a *lot less* cost?

The Ryzen 2700x has roughly the same performance as your CPU. Some wins, some losses as can be expected.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12625/amd-second-generation-ryzen-7-2700x-2700-ryzen-5-2600x-2600

You would save about 150 on the CPU, 50 on the cooler and perhaps another 50 on the motherboard or so. Not better performance *and* price, but price gains for sure.

If saving some 250$ or so is of little importance, you could have gone the other way, got yourself a 12-core Threadripper and wipe the floor with that 7820x.

Asking us to beat *both* price and performance is just dirty fighting IMO  ;D


Offline hans

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Re: 4K Video Editing PC Build
« Reply #124 on: June 25, 2018, 11:12:29 am »
I think these benchmarks only tell half the story. They are done with proper coolers on high-end motherboards.

Intel is better in H265/HEVC because of AVX2 instructions. Good cooling is required in this workload, because the CPU can't reach max turbo under AVX2 workloads due power and thereby temperature limits. Another funny note: I believe the TDP on a chip is measured at base clock, so if you want good turbo's you need a decent motherboard with great power delivery and good cooling. The boxed cooler Intel supplies is crap (but I don't think these X/K parts ship with one tho), especially with these higher core count chips.

Although Ryzen parts ship with better coolers, the chip it self will need to fall back on less powerful SIMD instructions ([although I stand to be corrected how it works exactly]), which explains why the 2700X lacks 15-20% behind in HEVC tests, but is on par in 7zip etc. Thereby IF you I would need to choose anything else than a 7820X, I would probably choose the 8700K for this workload, in the event that some circumstance forces CPU transcoding instead.

But all these benchmarks are multi-threaded workloads. Post some Cinebench ST results. I think there is only a 5% difference between the 7820X and 8700K. The gap to 2700X is bigger (, albeit AMD has closed the gap compared with the 1800X. But for a general purpose workstation, high single thread is also nice to have (e.g. last time I used Altium, it was mostly single threaded).
 


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