EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 02:59:36 am

Title: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 02:59:36 am
BattBump - A mobile app to share battery charge via NFC!
Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds.
Either an elaborate joke, or the dumbest Kickstarter idea ever.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/ (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/)

Sony Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170063431 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170063431)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQ7OY0sPbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQ7OY0sPbk)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Richard Crowley on June 27, 2018, 03:05:53 am
If the USPTO is undiscerning enough to issue a patent for a ham sandwich, why shouldn't they issue a patent to this?
It may be enabling technology for a perpetual motion machine or zero-point energy. :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on June 27, 2018, 03:09:23 am
Dave, I got to 3 minutes and a few seconds in your video and I had to walk away.

I'll come back and finish watching later ... when my head has adjusted and will (hopefully) not explode.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: blueskull on June 27, 2018, 03:21:27 am
If the USPTO is undiscerning enough to issue a patent for a ham sandwich, why shouldn't they issue a patent to this?

PTO is not supposed to be highly technically competent. PTO requests the applicant to stay compliant to rules and PTO serves essentially as a first come first serve registry.
If an applicant applied a patent with BS, he will find a hard time enforcing the patent, even if the screening by PTO had failed to identify the fake patent.

Sometimes, PTO does not even bother to screen the patent (depending on laws of a particular country). For instance, in China, only invention patents (the highest level of patents in China) are ACTUALLY screened. Utility patents and appearance patents are only briefly screened to rule out blatant redundancy and to correct the misuse of technical words, the actual content is not validated.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on June 27, 2018, 03:45:56 am
OMG i wish I thought of this joke...freaking hilarious.. my kudos to the creator  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 27, 2018, 05:45:48 am
It IS a joke. A piss-take(*) on crowdfunding, blockchain and cryptocurrency.

I don't think the fun should be spoiled. Everyone should be free to do their own joke KS campaigns.

(*) piss-take in British. noun informal. something that is done to tease or make fun of someone or something; a parody or lampoon.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 05:47:31 am
They just changed the campaign an hour or two after I released my video!  :-DD

Confirms that this it legit  :palm:

(https://i.imgur.com/5sOd19K.png)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on June 27, 2018, 05:50:39 am
that could almost work if you used usb cables... and people were happy to stand around awkwardly for 2 hours to buy and sell 20% of a battery charge....
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 05:52:54 am
It IS a joke. A piss-take(*) on crowdfunding, blockchain and cryptocurrency.
I don't think the fun should be spoiled. Everyone should be free to do their own joke KS campaigns.

Someone just told me they contacted her using the web form as an "investor" and I have her response, it seems legit, she is pointing interested investors to go and back the campaign.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on June 27, 2018, 05:59:48 am
Meet in person and bump together the phones? Boring.... My Kickstarter will be for battery charge sharing via phone calls. You call your buddy, you know, and say hey, can you share a bit of your battery charge with me, i am running out of juice.No need to meet and can work thousand miles away. Better yet, you can have a monthly subscription to my cloud service, just dial the number , run the app and charge your phone. That is the way to do it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on June 27, 2018, 06:22:34 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=463937;image)
.... So, this campaign is about technology that doesn't yet exist ... and has no inherent benefit to the purchaser of a new phone that would have it.

Battery life on one's own phone is an issue as it is, yet they want to export some of this power?!!  Talk about battery abuse!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on June 27, 2018, 06:24:52 am
... and that's not even addressing the practical issues (such as the time element) for such a transfer.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: LapTop006 on June 27, 2018, 06:26:00 am
that could almost work if you used usb cables... and people were happy to stand around awkwardly for 2 hours to buy and sell 20% of a battery charge....

More than almost, this is explicitly supported if both phones use USB-C (Android gives you an option in this case), for USB2 slightly less so, but would work with an OTG adapter and a micro-USB cable if they're older devices.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on June 27, 2018, 06:45:51 am
... and it would be far more efficient and immeasurably faster than wireless of any kind.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on June 27, 2018, 07:57:40 am
If the USPTO is undiscerning enough to issue a patent for a ham sandwich, why shouldn't they issue a patent to this?

PTO is not supposed to be highly technically competent.

They also don't get paid if they reject things.  :scared:

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 27, 2018, 08:25:02 am
It IS a joke. A piss-take(*) on crowdfunding, blockchain and cryptocurrency.
I don't think the fun should be spoiled. Everyone should be free to do their own joke KS campaigns.

Someone just told me they contacted her using the web form as an "investor" and I have her response, it seems legit, she is pointing interested investors to go and back the campaign.

Well, that is disappointing to hear. As a joke it was a bloody good one, and really well done. I so wish I was clever enough to have thought of it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 09:32:01 am
Looks like she's not happy.
She has filed a privacy complaint with Youtube (didn't know there was such a thing)

Ridiculous. Her name is public on the campaign, here photo is on the campaign, her website has her full name, photo and bio etc, all public stuff.

I don't even know how to respond officially, need to investigate.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=464048;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 09:38:29 am
Looks like she has now deleted her KS profile and photo and the project is canceled. Probably the don't allow you to change your name.
Trying to erase the entire thing and her involvement in it perhaps?
This was obviously no joke campaign.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=464054;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Muttley Snickers on June 27, 2018, 10:11:51 am
Sounds like  the only thing likely to get bumped is the video.   :palm:

I suspect that this privacy card could result in a substantial number of existing videos now possibly requiring redaction, re-touching or being pulled altogether, and perhaps another trap set for creators to watch out for.   :( :-/O
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 10:21:19 am
And you guessed it, she has now removed her photo from her website!
She is trying to vanish from the Internet over this boondoggle. Don't really blame her, it's pretty embarrassing, but hey, it's the Internet, she put herself out there very publicly.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:14:48 am
AND the www.battbump.com (http://www.battbump.com) website is gone too!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 27, 2018, 11:21:53 am
And you guessed it, she has now removed her photo from her website!
She is trying to vanish from the Internet over this boondoggle. Don't really blame her, it's pretty embarrassing, but hey, it's the Internet, she put herself out there very publicly.

Would you consider removing the video and letting this one go through to the 'keeper? Maybe she's just young and a bit too silly. I don't really want to know too much about her but I do feel for a young person who makes a poor decision and has to live with it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:43:30 am
Would you consider removing the video and letting this one go through to the 'keeper? Maybe she's just young and a bit too silly. I don't really want to know too much about her but I do feel for a young person who makes a poor decision and has to live with it.

Maybe I would if she asked me.
She has both my email and phone number but has not contacted me about it.
So it's basically a principle thing, and it has precedent for all my other debunking and other videos.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on June 27, 2018, 11:55:40 am
AND the www.battbump.com (http://www.battbump.com) website is gone too!

Damn, I missed all the action.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Towger on June 27, 2018, 12:24:24 pm
The Linkedin link (https://www.linkedin.com/in/redacted/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/redacted/)) on her website (https://www.redacted.co/bio-contact (https://www.redacted.co/bio-contact)) goes to a page for 'redacted', also a redacted from redacted.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: MT on June 27, 2018, 12:31:46 pm
What if this was just yet another "kick-starter" fraud attempt? Surely if she know about NFC i assume she
did, she must have known its severe limitations and now when exposed tries to vanish like a snowflake?

Lots of non tech people can easily fall in to such campaigns and loose money. Just saying. :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on June 27, 2018, 01:05:54 pm
Passing charge between phones would be a cool idea between friends, etc.

OTOH would you want random people constantly bothering you in the street every time you charged your phone?

TANSTAAFL: Anybody who doesn't delete the app after a day of "Ooooh, he's at 90%, he'll give me some charge for sure!" is just a sexual predator trying to attract some prey.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 01:10:21 pm
BTW, the project was cancelled by the owner, Kickstarter didn't cancel it.

(https://i.imgur.com/0uI1HgS.png)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on June 27, 2018, 01:21:46 pm
The Linkedin link (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/)) on her website (https://www.catclark.co/bio-contact (https://www.catclark.co/bio-contact)) goes to a page for 'Rebecca Field', also a series producer from Sydney, Australia.

Kicktraq still have a link to the deleted creator page.  It has gone from the campaign itself, along with the update from this morning.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/creator_bio (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/creator_bio)

MOD EDIT: Sorry Kean, but I think it's prudent to remove this bit. Dave.

The removed update is still available via this deep link
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/posts/2223691 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery/posts/2223691)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 27, 2018, 01:30:10 pm
AND the www.battbump.com (http://www.battbump.com) website is gone too!

But it's in google's cache:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b_14WKuickAJ:www.battbump.com/+ (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b_14WKuickAJ:www.battbump.com/+)

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9NS8gCBObSwJ:https://www.battbump.com/+&cd=1&ct=clnk (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9NS8gCBObSwJ:https://www.battbump.com/+&cd=1&ct=clnk)

BTW down there says ©2015
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 01:32:06 pm
FYI, I have made the video private. I'd like to leave it up until the review goes though but I have a reason, trust me. Looks like it'll be a re-edit and re-upload regardless of the Privacy dispute.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: reubot on June 27, 2018, 01:34:12 pm
Here is a writeup from David Gerard, includes a link to an archive of The BattBump site,
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/26/battbump-wireless-phone-to-phone-charging-on-the-blockchain/
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on June 27, 2018, 01:36:39 pm
I do not see why it can't be available , just edit out the name and photos of the creator if any. Call the person "the creator" or something. I do not understand why people here are all after the person's name, it is irrelevant to the discussion of the matter and indeed invites complains about privacy.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on June 27, 2018, 01:38:33 pm
Quote from: EEVblog
MOD EDIT: Sorry Kean, but I think it's prudent to remove this bit. Dave.

Fair enough!

Note that the timestamps reported should possibly have been 10:50-11:55 when you were showing her website bio page.

BTW down there says ©2015

I reckon that is someone using an old webpage template.  The battbump.com domain was only registered in March 2018.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on June 27, 2018, 01:39:24 pm
 How come the tech media BS have not picked up on this new revolutionary technology?  :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 01:39:38 pm
I do not see why it can't be available , just edit out the name and photos of the creator if any.

You cannot edit videos after they uploaded, you can only delete (losing all comments & views) and re-upload.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: CaptCrash on June 27, 2018, 01:43:42 pm
Yes she put the details on her web page, but she has now removed them and its reasonable not to show them.
As for her name, links to web page etc, that's all reasonable to show, it only identifies what she has posted anyway in multiple locations.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 27, 2018, 01:53:11 pm
FYI, I have made the video private. I'd like to leave it up but I have a reason. Looks like it'll be a re-edit and re-upload regardless of the Privacy dispute.

How does this thing of private videos work, because I've got it open in a tab and can still see it, and replay it? If I reload the page then it will be gone, or what?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on June 27, 2018, 01:59:57 pm
So Dave, does this count as a strike against your YT channel?  If so, that would suck!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 02:01:39 pm
So Dave, does this count as a strike against your YT channel?  If so, that would suck!

Nope, no strikes, clean as a whistle.

(https://i.imgur.com/NLMHOqK.png)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 02:02:39 pm
Someone reported on twitter that her Vimeo video is gone too.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on June 27, 2018, 02:02:49 pm
So Dave, does this count as a strike against your YT channel?  If so, that would suck!

Nope, no strikes, clean as a whistle.

 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on June 27, 2018, 02:05:44 pm
Someone reported on twitter that her Vimeo video is gone too.

Yeah, the Vimeo link showed up if you Googled her name.  Comes up as VimeUhOh! (aka 404)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: SparkyFX on June 27, 2018, 02:30:21 pm
Haven´t seen the video before it went off...

Passing charge between phones would be a cool idea between friends, etc.
The management of such a system probably takes more energy than is transferred in the first place (should that ever work out), which means it just increases the losses.

I wonder if there are regulations in place regarding the price of electrical energy and how reselling it would be treated. After all it would start to become a third or fourth tier market (like selling gas in bottles).

Probably a lot more practical would be to stick with a power bank and be able to help many more people with it, nothing new needed. Or use the Qi/PMA technology.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Koen on June 27, 2018, 02:37:55 pm
"Wow, the amounts these kickstarters reach are incredible. I should try something, anything. I'd bother with technicalities if it reaches the goal. It'd be so great !" -- heard quite often.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NivagSwerdna on June 27, 2018, 02:38:10 pm
Quote from: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/26/battbump-wireless-phone-to-phone-charging-on-the-blockchain/
The named contact is Cat Clark, a TV producer and creative in Sydney, Australia. She works on technology shows, such as CBN‘s gadget show CyberShack on Channel 9, though she’s not a technologist herself.
Aussies and technology! She's literally a neighbor.

You need to get to know each other; With a little understanding; You can find the perfect blend... That's when good neighbours become good friends.

PS
Imagine if all the people mentioned on MailBag decided to file a privacy claim!

PPS
Sounded like it was intended as a spoof for a TV piece.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: hans on June 27, 2018, 02:44:32 pm
Luckily it's not hard to find the video in question if you look online for "eevblog mp4 archive"

Even archive.org has it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: bob225 on June 27, 2018, 02:46:08 pm
You mite as well harvest the the RF energy - The phone that never goes flat TM  :-DD

Knew i should of watched the video when it was posted, these thing are like busses another will be along shortly
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: WacKEDmaN on June 27, 2018, 02:47:07 pm
this is all really weird.. her linkedin has been deleted, along with the battbump site, the cybershack website is down aswell..
but i did find her phone number and area in syd shes in, again its all public information she put up on the internet for everyone to see

im beginning to think its more than a scam kickstarter, but maybe involves identity theft aswell
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NANDBlog on June 27, 2018, 02:54:47 pm
The Linkedin link x on her website x goes to a page for 'x', also a series producer from Sydney, Australia.
Doxing her is not nice anyway.

I mean obviously it is a stupid campaign, from someone with no technical knowledge trying to sell something technical, but still.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NivagSwerdna on June 27, 2018, 03:03:53 pm
...but maybe involves identity theft aswell
Good point! Maybe Dave should give the real one a call.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 03:16:11 pm
im beginning to think its more than a scam kickstarter, but maybe involves identity theft aswell

I doubt it.
They would have to control her website account, LinkedIn account, Vimeo account, her mobile phone, and maybe others.
And then she very co-incidentally seems just the type to run this very campaign. e.g a marketing person with video production experience, and works in the mobile phone space, and doesn't seem to have a technical enough background to adequately vet a project like this.
I'm sure it's her, she has panicked, realised the project isn't going to fly, and is now erasing everything.
She has my name and number, she could have just contacted me and asked nicely to have the video edited, and I probably would have done it. No mess, no fuss.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: maxwell3e10 on June 27, 2018, 03:22:53 pm
Doxing her is not nice anyway.

I mean obviously it is a stupid campaign, from someone with no technical knowledge trying to sell something technical, but still.
She has no expectation of privacy. It's like printing an ad in a newspaper and then demanding that all copies are burned.
And whatever her technical background, she clearly spent more time making a promotional video than understanding the technology.  Unfortunately its not uncommon these days that marketing and hot air takes over, but that is exactly the reason that particularly egregious examples should be publicly shamed.

Dave, I hope you can put the video back up soon!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Towger on June 27, 2018, 03:30:14 pm
The Linkedin link x on her website x goes to a page for 'x', also a series producer from Sydney, Australia.
Doxing her is not nice anyway.

There is nothing private about the information. Just links which she published herself to her own self published public information.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 27, 2018, 05:11:40 pm
[...]she clearly spent more time making a promotional video than understanding the technology.[...]
Considering the quality and content of the video (mostly stock footage cut together with a little rudimentary and very shoddy compositing), i doubt she spent more time making that video than she spent on studying the technology.  :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Towger on June 27, 2018, 05:27:29 pm
i doubt she spent more time making that video than she spent on studying the technology.  :-//

Her LinkedIn profile has her currently studying multiple  production type courses/modules, at what I think was Dave's old alma mater :-)

The Kickstarter may be a class project.

I would like to hear from Kickstarter as to how the campaign got through their 'sanity' filters.  They have the most to answer.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 27, 2018, 05:31:58 pm
The Kickstarter may be a class project.
If that was a media/production class project, the overarching subject must be "Fools and Their Money".
Whoever ends their project with the biggest amount of money will get the best grades ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Discotech on June 27, 2018, 05:51:20 pm
Well that all escalated very quickly from ousting a KS scam to somebody trying to do the impossible of hiding on the internet, if it was an innocent mistake and lack of knowledge for the KS then why go to such efforts to try and slip out the internet back door that does not exist ? The behaviour suggests somebody with a guilty conscience trying to hide their guilt

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on June 27, 2018, 06:15:38 pm
 :palm:
she could have "saved face" to use the Japanese term, by just going with the "its a joke" explanation.

cant wait to see where this goes  :popcorn:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: nctnico on June 27, 2018, 06:52:17 pm
They just changed the campaign an hour or two after I released my video!  :-DD

Confirms that this it legit  :palm:

(https://i.imgur.com/5sOd19K.png)
I just gave the kickstarter campaign a quick browse. It clearly states that they are only going to make the app. They are NOT going to develop any phone to phone charging hardware. And ofcourse NFC isn't suitable for charging but it is an easy way to do ad-hoc phone to phone communication.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: trophosphere on June 27, 2018, 07:03:45 pm
Passing charge between phones would be a cool idea between friends, etc.

I don't know if they have done it yet (or have already done it) but the phone manufacturers could just implement the bidrectional charging specification of USB Type-C PD3.0 so people can can charge their phones from their friends and vice versa. There are chips already made to specifically do this as well (https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/isl9/isl95338.pdf).
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: PA0PBZ on June 27, 2018, 07:23:52 pm
I just gave the kickstarter campaign a quick browse. It clearly states that they are only going to make the app. They are NOT going to develop any phone to phone charging hardware.

And I'm going to make the app to control your home fusion reactor, just the app, not the reactor. Please give me your money.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TechnicalBen on June 27, 2018, 07:37:20 pm
And you guessed it, she has now removed her photo from her website!
She is trying to vanish from the Internet over this boondoggle. Don't really blame her, it's pretty embarrassing, but hey, it's the Internet, she put herself out there very publicly.

Would you consider removing the video and letting this one go through to the 'keeper? Maybe she's just young and a bit too silly. I don't really want to know too much about her but I do feel for a young person who makes a poor decision and has to live with it.

Yeah, I'm all for pointing out mistakes and error. Even scams. But until I see actual harm, I'd always assume someone is wrong, and politely put em right. If it's a company, I kinda feel different, as it's not usually directed at people... but then again, people run and work for companies.

If we lose the naive and confused along with the scams and attacks, are we any better than the scammers? Try to get those who still can learn and change back on track! :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Richard Crowley on June 27, 2018, 08:21:50 pm
This doesn't seem categorically different from the nano-pump CPAP crowd or the ultrasonic charging crowd.
But they continue to dupe thousands of suckers and raise millions of dollars.  Better marketing, apparently.

OTOH, the baterizer and solar roadways schemes are in a slightly different category IMHO.
They are very roughly based on a real, functional scientific/engineering principle, but are simply not economical and/or practical.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: StillTrying on June 27, 2018, 10:24:24 pm
I wonder if the tech/gadget TV programs that they produce do reports on KS gadgets. :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: admiralk on June 27, 2018, 10:32:19 pm
PPS
Sounded like it was intended as a spoof for a TV piece.

And here is the demo from the inventor of the gadget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XffNQxiXTY  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XffNQxiXTY)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 10:46:01 pm
You guessed it, latest video flagged for Privacy:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=464396;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ataradov on June 27, 2018, 11:03:50 pm
And here is the demo from the inventor of the gadget

"Published on Feb 21, 2016". I see this is a long play con.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on June 27, 2018, 11:22:34 pm
BattBump power theft protection....I am going to develop an app to protect you against theft of power by BattBump hackers.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:30:27 pm
Damn, the Youtube blurring tool is completely buggy and doesn't work properly. No option but to do the video myself and re-upload. Probably both videos. Then the Privacy complaints automatically go away.
BTW, now with two Privacy claims, I run the risk of getting two strikes on my account if I fight this and some faceless person at Youtube decides in her favour (quite likely)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:35:42 pm
Well that all escalated very quickly from ousting a KS scam to somebody trying to do the impossible of hiding on the internet, if it was an innocent mistake and lack of knowledge for the KS then why go to such efforts to try and slip out the internet back door that does not exist ? The behaviour suggests somebody with a guilty conscience trying to hide their guilt

She could have just phoned or emailed me and said she's embarrassed by it all and can I please edit the video to remove her name. I probably would have done it, no fuss, no Streisand effect.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:36:21 pm
https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/27/battbump-update-the-project-backs-down-on-its-claims-then-cancels-and-vanishes/

She replied to a tech enquiry here:
Quote
Torsten Kleinz, a journalist at c’t and Die Zeit, wrote to BattBump, and got a response:

I am a journalist from Germany and stumbled across your Kickstarter campaign. This campaign has an apparent flaw: There is no way to transfer energy between mobile phones per NFC. Even if a smartphone could harvest the NFC energy — and none in the market can — you had to hold the two phones against each other for hours to get even one percent more battery life. So — what is this campaign really about?

Their answer:

Thanks for showing interest in our campaign. We are developing the software for all current flagship devices to transfer energy between devices. It isn’t a question of whether a device can “harvest the NFC energy” NFC is the conduit and not the storage capability. Our software speeds up the process, and the time required is relative to how much of your battery charge you are willing to give away. Thanks for your question and we hope to have your continued support.

Also, she replied here:

Quote
Cat Clark emailed a response to my initial query of Monday evening, around 04:00 UTC today:

We are looking to organize a partnership with a collaborator who will help us utilize the technology for wireless charging in the app when it it ready. We will not be developing the technology ourselves. We have researched similar patents like Sony’s and feel this kind of partnership or collaborator would be the way forward. This project is to fund the mobile application of BattBump, the next stage within the product roadmap will be further research and development of the technology to perform the battery charge transfer. Also, Genson Glier is a Blockchain technology advisor to BattBump. We are always open to new partnerships and further support for our project.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ThomasDK on June 27, 2018, 11:42:57 pm
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/power-management/wireless-charger-ics/stwlc33.html (https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/power-management/wireless-charger-ics/stwlc33.html)

...So while it won't be practical with NFC, Qi can already do it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 27, 2018, 11:51:19 pm
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/power-management/wireless-charger-ics/stwlc33.html (https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/power-management/wireless-charger-ics/stwlc33.html)
...So while it won't be practical with NFC, Qi can already do it.

Not using the tech in existing phones.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 12:06:04 am
:palm:
she could have "saved face" to use the Japanese term, by just going with the "its a joke" explanation.

Yep, she could have easily done that and everyone would have had a laugh and that would have been that.
Now she has admitted it was real, and her full name is still plastered all over the Kickstarter bio page, and everyone is following along the soap opera of her trying to erase herself from the Internet.
Good luck getting her name removed from KS.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on June 28, 2018, 12:10:09 am
Damn, the Youtube blurring tool is completely buggy and doesn't work properly. No option but to do the video myself and re-upload. Probably both videos. Then the Privacy complaints automatically go away.
BTW, now with two Privacy claims, I run the risk of getting two strikes on my account if I fight this and some faceless person at Youtube decides in her favour (quite likely)
It seems that you won't get a strike for privacy complain.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802032?hl=en (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802032?hl=en)

Quote
Sometimes content is removed for reasons other than Community Guidelines violations, such as the safety of the person who posted a video, a first-party privacy complaint, court order, or other non-malicious issue. In these cases, the uploader won't receive a strike and the account won't be penalized.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: pilotchup on June 28, 2018, 12:12:20 am
Video #1099 seems to already be gone? That was fast....

Wow, just pathetic YouTube.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 12:35:55 am
Video #1099 seems to already be gone? That was fast....

Wow, just pathetic YouTube.

youtube didnt remove it, author is removing/hiding them. agreed otherwise.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: pilotchup on June 28, 2018, 12:54:18 am
I just can't believe, like Dave said, that you can't even talk/report about something in the public domain. Dave made a lot of REALLY good points in his eevBLAB #48 about setting a precedence.

I feel like YouTube continues to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again with all these policies and mechanisms to censor or target content creators, or just make it plain difficult to do. Sad thing is that the big executives at YouTube believe what they are doing is a good thing, when instead they are slowly picking apart the recipe that made them successful in the first place :(

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Macbeth on June 28, 2018, 01:01:15 am
Looks to me like the battery bump video was clearly teenage kids doing their trolling and memeing and having a fucking good laugh. I'm nearly 50 and can clearly see a bunch of kids joking and taking the piss. I wouldn't put it past them to actually have a go trolling Kickstarter too and seeing if they can actually get some cash maybe? See how far they can take this insane social internet stuff?

I suspect the whole reason for the takedown is entirely because these are children.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 01:09:24 am
I just can't believe, like Dave said, that you can't even talk/report about something in the public domain...

It also helps that everyone is behaving like squealing little girls, running into hiding every time youtube basically tells them to self-censor or else. If one basically exposes criminal-looking attempt to rip people off, using public information to do so, said brave one should grow a damn spine. Let youtube remove videos on their own, if they deem it appropriate. Meanwhile upload said videos elsewhere and let rest of internet loudly know how youtube protects criminals.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 01:31:25 am
Video #1099 seems to already be gone? That was fast....

Wow, just pathetic YouTube.

youtube didnt remove it, author is removing/hiding them. agreed otherwise.

Correct. Youtube did not take it down (yet), I voluntarily removed it for a reason I won't go into now.
I will be uploaded a new redacted version shortly, which I think is more fun anyway.
As much as I'd like to fight this all the way, I think for various reason it's more fun to just reupload them.
I might be able to blur the Blab video, but the Youtube blur tool is just not cooperating.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 01:32:28 am
Damn, the Youtube blurring tool is completely buggy and doesn't work properly. No option but to do the video myself and re-upload. Probably both videos. Then the Privacy complaints automatically go away.
BTW, now with two Privacy claims, I run the risk of getting two strikes on my account if I fight this and some faceless person at Youtube decides in her favour (quite likely)
It seems that you won't get a strike for privacy complain.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802032?hl=en (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802032?hl=en)

Quote
Sometimes content is removed for reasons other than Community Guidelines violations, such as the safety of the person who posted a video, a first-party privacy complaint, court order, or other non-malicious issue. In these cases, the uploader won't receive a strike and the account won't be penalized.

Good to know, thanks. I thought it was the opposite.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 28, 2018, 01:49:37 am
I'd like to just forget about it and pretend it was a clever joke. The KS campaign is consigned to the bit bucket and the individual responsible, whether it was a joke or not, clearly just wants to put it behind.  She's a small fish and not worth risking the appearance of bullying.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 01:56:11 am
It's back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRy6GDHgUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRy6GDHgUA)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 01:57:49 am
I'd like to just forget about it and pretend it was a clever joke. The KS campaign is consigned to the bit bucket and the individual responsible, whether it was a joke or not

Its is not a joke. She replied to several journalists defending it before she decided to remove it and try and erase everything.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Deca4477 on June 28, 2018, 02:35:25 am
Seems the video got taken down once again, dunno if this is a regional thing, or worldwide but I'm in the US and am unable to watch the reupload.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: marcus_cdn on June 28, 2018, 02:42:40 am
Hi all!

Same thing here...  Received YT notification for Dave's "revised" video, but it's blank...  (I'm in Canada.)  I was able to watch the new version posted by Dave on the blog before YT removed it (?).  I believe that YT requirements were met, but...  I follow the saga with interest.

We are with you Dave!!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on June 28, 2018, 03:22:50 am
It's back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ja4NFGY85I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ja4NFGY85I)
It's Gone!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on June 28, 2018, 03:33:00 am
not gone, just bad link
its 1ja4NFGY85I, should be KhRy6GDHgUA

Looks to me like the battery bump video was clearly teenage kids doing their trolling and memeing and having a fucking good laugh. I'm nearly 50 and can clearly see a bunch of kids joking and taking the piss.

Im sure you thought the same about guys with manbuns talking about blockchain/ico, until it finally downed on you they scammed idiot public to the tune of $300 billion (current "value" of all the scams).
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ataradov on June 28, 2018, 03:33:58 am
It was gone and back up again for the third time.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: richfiles on June 28, 2018, 03:52:30 am
And you guessed it, she has now removed her photo from her website!
She is trying to vanish from the Internet over this boondoggle. Don't really blame her, it's pretty embarrassing, but hey, it's the Internet, she put herself out there very publicly.

Would you consider removing the video and letting this one go through to the 'keeper? Maybe she's just young and a bit too silly. I don't really want to know too much about her but I do feel for a young person who makes a poor decision and has to live with it.

Yeah, I'm all for pointing out mistakes and error. Even scams. But until I see actual harm, I'd always assume someone is wrong, and politely put em right. ...

If we lose the naive and confused along with the scams and attacks, are we any better than the scammers? Try to get those who still can learn and change back on track! :)

NO.
JUST NO!

I have NO sympathy for this **REDACTED**, because she is abusing YouTube policies to ACTIVELY CENSOR JOURNALISM! She is ACTIVELY causing harm to free press! Youtube is getting way too censor happy these days, and the fact that this **REDACTED**REDACTED** snowflake **REDACTED** licker is abusing the system to stifle fair reporting on technology news is BAD NEWS!  :bullshit:

I have NO sympathy for her, and for stooping to such abuses, I honestly hope she ends up flipping burgers and salting fries, rather than let her lead any sort of media production... What kind of awful influence is this **REDACTED** gonna have if she gets into production.

No sympathy at all...

(I know Dave don't care about swearing, but it felt... hmm... topical to **REDACTED**)  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 28, 2018, 06:01:09 am

NO.
JUST NO!

I have NO sympathy for this **REDACTED**, because she is abusing YouTube policies to ACTIVELY CENSOR JOURNALISM! She is ACTIVELY causing harm to free press! Youtube is getting way too censor happy these days, and the fact that this **REDACTED**REDACTED** snowflake **REDACTED** licker is abusing the system to stifle fair reporting on technology news is BAD NEWS!  :bullshit:

I have NO sympathy for her, and for stooping to such abuses, I honestly hope she ends up flipping burgers and salting fries, rather than let her lead any sort of media production... What kind of awful influence is this **REDACTED** gonna have if she gets into production.

No sympathy at all...

(I know Dave don't care about swearing, but it felt... hmm... topical to **REDACTED**)  :-DD

I can suggest you read " So You've Been Publicly Shamed by Jon Ronson". maybe it will soften your stance on applying the power of the Internet against someone. Sounds like it won't but I don't think beating up on this young woman is going to cover anyone in glory.

I'm not a fan of the debunking videos on Youtube and this one in particular I wish was never made. Especially if it was done because it is fun. This is no Batteroo or Ubeam. And  I'm still not convinced it wasn't a prank. It was never going to get fully funded.

Perhaps I should disclose that I stopped after a minute or so of the first incarnation. I didn't want to see more. So I'm not really criticising the video per se.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on June 28, 2018, 06:13:28 am
I don't think anyone is "beating up" on her. She tried to make a quick buck for personal gain by launching a carefully worded Kickstarter project which basically meant that she could make $30,000+ and do nothing more than produce an application that didn't do anything. Those who skim-read the Kickstarter page could have easily backed the project expecting that the hardware and concept would come to fruition. She got caught out and now she has gone on a delete spree in an attempt to cover it up. It's probably more of a scam than Batteriser was, at least they had a product that kind of did something, not just a promise to wait until the technology became available.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NivagSwerdna on June 28, 2018, 07:42:45 am
I agree with some of the sentiment above and the original KS campaign is gone.

It is unclear if the original was a hoax, a scam, a spoof or a scam based on identity theft.

The original website is old for all we know it was an April Fool from 2015.

In any event I think that this topic should be dropped and the response video and associated context in my mind is brutal if the originator did not intend a scam.

IMHO this topic is now out of hand and has the potential to lead to a bad outcome.  Needs caution.

Just my 2p worth.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 07:43:16 am
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/) profile keeps changing name - last it was Rebecca Field, now its Fruthal R - superprincess cat clark is actively working on whitewashing and hiding stuff, screaming its privacy was butthurt. clearly no reason to feel sorry for such a parasite. sad one, that redacted edition.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: richfiles on June 28, 2018, 07:48:09 am
I can suggest you read " So You've Been Publicly Shamed by Jon Ronson". maybe it will soften your stance on applying the power of the Internet against someone. Sounds like it won't but I don't think beating up on this young woman is going to cover anyone in glory.

I'm not a fan of the debunking videos on Youtube and this one in particular I wish was never made. Especially if it was done because it is fun. This is no Batteroo or Ubeam. And  I'm still not convinced it wasn't a prank. It was never going to get fully funded.

Perhaps I should disclose that I stopped after a minute or so of the first incarnation.

Okay... I'm just gonna be 100% clear here, since you yourself have admitted that you didn't look into the entirety of the video.
You clearly didn't look at the entirety of my message either, because the thing she did that is so UNFORGIVABLE, in my opinion, is that she abused Youtube policy to forcibly censor what was effectively a news report on what appeared for all intents and purposes, to be a scam.

This is about abusing the system to stifle freedom of the press.

The second she crossed that line, she made herself a target if ire! I don't even care about her little scam or prank or uneducated malarkey! It's her attack of freedom of the press.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 07:54:11 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Ed29b6TH8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Ed29b6TH8)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 08:00:16 am
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/) profile keeps changing name - last it was Rebecca Field, now its Fruthal R - superprincess cat clark is actively working on whitewashing and hiding stuff, screaming its privacy was butthurt. clearly no reason to feel sorry for such a parasite. sad one, that redacted edition.

PS. managed to change url also https://www.linkedin.com/in/fruthalr/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/fruthalr/)
thats not how people behave, who feel they made honest mistake.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 08:46:08 am
another clean-ish name: Charlotte M.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/)
clicking on "contacts" shows another url: linkedin.com/in/charlmarie
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 08:53:11 am
3rd Privacy claim
Same Blab video, so two claims on that now.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=464648;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 09:02:03 am
It is unclear if the original was a hoax, a scam, a spoof or a scam based on identity theft.

It is not identity theft, and was no hoax, it was a legitimate campaign.

Quote
The original website is old for all we know it was an April Fool from 2015.

It was only created recently, it is not from 2015, and it's not a April fools joke, as confirmed by two other journalists who got replies from her.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 28, 2018, 09:12:50 am
$whois 'battbump.com'
   Domain Name: BATTBUMP.COM
   Registry Domain ID: 2236991631_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
   Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namecheap.com
   Registrar URL: http://www.namecheap.com (http://www.namecheap.com)
   Updated Date: 2018-04-28T07:59:35Z
   Creation Date: 2018-03-09T01:37:12Z
   Registry Expiry Date: 2019-03-09T01:37:12Z
   Registrar: NameCheap Inc.
   Registrar IANA ID: 1068
   Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@namecheap.com
   Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.6613102107
   Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited (https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited)
   Name Server: NS0.WIXDNS.NET
   Name Server: NS1.WIXDNS.NET
   DNSSEC: unsigned
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Lockon Stratos on June 28, 2018, 09:45:17 am
3rd Privacy claim
Same Blab video, so two claims on that now.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=464648;image)
Cant you get someone at youtube to shot down these bogus complaints?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 28, 2018, 09:53:58 am
Cant you get someone at youtube to shot down these bogus complaints?
:-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 28, 2018, 09:56:00 am
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/catclark1/) is now redirecting to https://www.linkedin.com/in/unavailable/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/unavailable/)

busy little shit. and all efforts in right direction...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on June 28, 2018, 09:59:38 am
Cat Clark, instead of going to ground and pretending things didn't exist/happen, perhaps you could address the audience which you, yourself have single-handedly created. We're listening. :-)

For those who missed out and would like to learn a bit more about Cat's idea and a bit about herself:

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/26/battbump-wireless-phone-to-phone-charging-on-the-blockchain/ (https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/26/battbump-wireless-phone-to-phone-charging-on-the-blockchain/)

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/27/battbump-update-the-project-backs-down-on-its-claims-then-cancels-and-vanishes/ (https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/27/battbump-update-the-project-backs-down-on-its-claims-then-cancels-and-vanishes/)

https://web.archive.org/web/20180627123037/http://battbump.com/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20180627123037/http://battbump.com/)

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Lockon Stratos on June 28, 2018, 10:00:18 am
Cant you get someone at youtube to shot down these bogus complaints?
:-DD
Worth a shot...  ;D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NivagSwerdna on June 28, 2018, 10:00:56 am
It is unclear if the original was a hoax, a scam, a spoof or a scam based on identity theft.

It is not identity theft, and was no hoax, it was a legitimate campaign.

Quote
The original website is old for all we know it was an April Fool from 2015.

It was only created recently, it is not from 2015, and it's not a April fools joke, as confirmed by two other journalists who got replies from her.

OK. I stand corrected.

I looked at the KS page.  The reward levels don't involve any technology just T-shirts, hoodies etc so I guess it was a misleading (AKA scam) marketing exercise.
Given the rewards don't actually rely on the technology working I'm surprised they pulled it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 10:03:11 am
Her entire personal website is now gone, just a Wix banner page.
Silly stuff going full nuclear, she could have just let this fade quietly into the night.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 28, 2018, 11:00:28 am
A German article:
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Aus-fuer-skurrile-BattBump-Kampagne-Smartphone-Akkus-per-NFC-laden-4093729.html (https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Aus-fuer-skurrile-BattBump-Kampagne-Smartphone-Akkus-per-NFC-laden-4093729.html)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: MT on June 28, 2018, 12:20:08 pm
It's her attack of freedom of the press.

Dave Jones the last bastion outside Fake News cabal! ;D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: SparkyFX on June 28, 2018, 03:02:38 pm
Her entire personal website is now gone, just a Wix banner page.
Silly stuff going full nuclear, she could have just let this fade quietly into the night.
It never goes that way, because it is that all or nothing type of personality that comes with broad claims but empty hands.
Be fast to occupy the right spot before others do, might be a motivation to go ahead. Making a mistake in doing so, ok... happens. But already collecting money is a bit too much, other forms of publication would have fulfilled the same purpose.

Crowd funding is very unfiltered in that regard, a run of the mill venture capitalist would have sorted that out beforehand to avoid legal trouble (it would be fraud after all). OTOH, there have been all kinds of scams in the investment sector even before online crowd funding was a thing.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on June 28, 2018, 03:21:03 pm
Silly stuff going full nuclear, she could have just let this fade quietly into the night.

and face "and what about that scam kickstarter" questions while being passed over for a promotion every single time, or even fired because TV/marketing place cant afford having questionable public facing employees. Cmon, you know this was never an option.

Her only moves were contacting you and hope for a redemption Video on EEVblog channel where she plays stupid and pretends to learn new things and is truly sorry for making a mistake and being over enthusiastic, or deleting herself and hoping YT will let her censor others.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: cprobertson1 on June 28, 2018, 03:36:33 pm
Her entire personal website is now gone, just a Wix banner page.
Silly stuff going full nuclear, she could have just let this fade quietly into the night.

This is usually about the time the Streisand Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) kicks in! :popcorn:



So, I just noticed that not one of the reward tears tiers feature anything more interesting than a hoodie - to be delivered by around December 2019 no less...

Did they ever offer anything actually interesting in the reward tiers? Don't suppose anybody noticed if it got changed after the big reveal? :P

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: WacKEDmaN on June 28, 2018, 06:18:55 pm
her damage control is truly epic! shes doing quite a good job at removing herself from the internet..shame its all too late!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on June 28, 2018, 08:48:18 pm
her damage control is truly epic! shes doing quite a good job at removing herself from the internet..shame its all too late!

I guess she took the hard way out. Cat has a lot to learn about the industry (and how the internet never forgets). As someone who works/worked for CBN Media (http://cbnmedia.com.au), who centres itself around technology and the media, she should know better!

If she was truly serious about releasing a product like the BattBump, the best thing she could have done was take Dave's professional advice and realised it wasn't going to happen, admit her lack of planning/homework and cancel the Kickstarter project that way. Instead, she got greedy and tried to use Kickstarter as her own personal cash machine to which there is no retort. She got caught out, panicked and now hopes that it will all go away soon and people will forget her name. People now just assume she is a scammer. She could still possibly redeem herself somewhat if she just came out with it and spoke with Dave (and others), there is no shame in being wrong and admitting your failures.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: westfw on June 28, 2018, 09:05:14 pm
Quote
Quote
maybe involves identity theft as well
I doubt it.
They would have to control her website account, LinkedIn account, Vimeo account, her mobile phone, and maybe others.

How do you figure?  One email password, and I think you could forge the rest...  Yeah, it might be difficult to take over someone who has a significant existing web presence, but if you were a relatively anonymous student who had her phone stolen (for example), it might be pretty trivial (I'm not sure I want to consider HOW trivial) to go out and CREATE an entirely fictitious web presence...

The aftermath could be the person desperately trying to shut down all the fake accounts made in their name, or it could be the perpetrator trying to clean up after themselves after being informed just how far beyond "harmless prank" their activities have gone...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 29, 2018, 01:29:35 am
I don't think anyone is "beating up" on her. She tried to make a quick buck for personal gain by launching a carefully worded Kickstarter project which basically meant that she could make $30,000+ and do nothing more than produce an application that didn't do anything. Those who skim-read the Kickstarter page could have easily backed the project expecting that the hardware and concept would come to fruition. She got caught out and now she has gone on a delete spree in an attempt to cover it up. It's probably more of a scam than Batteriser was, at least they had a product that kind of did something, not just a promise to wait until the technology became available.

Well, I don't actually know it was meant as a joke. Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. So joke crowdfunding campaigns are not unprecedented. But I doubt you can be equally certain it wasn't just a prank. At least it wasn't set up where the money pledged was taken even if the campaign fell short of the goal. Which is how I would have expected a genuine scammer to operate. I doubt it would ever have had a prayer of reaching the $30000 goal.

But as for beating up on her then, it is clear from the next few posts (after this one I am quoting) that at least some here are trying to publish her other names they claim she uses. And use phrases like "busy little shit" to describe her.

If anything, that is the reason I disapprove of these internet videos in that they can harness the worst of human behavior. It could so easily have been resolved by letting her take fright at the unintended consequences and move on with her life with a strong lesson learned about life on the Internet. But instead we have people with marginal reason to be interested piling in to reveal as much as they can about her and make it as difficult as possible for this incident to be consigned to history. Where it belongs.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 29, 2018, 03:23:53 am
If she was truly serious about releasing a product like the BattBump, the best thing she could have done was take Dave's professional advice and realised it wasn't going to happen, admit her lack of planning/homework and cancel the Kickstarter project that way. Instead, she got greedy and tried to use Kickstarter as her own personal cash machine to which there is no retort. She got caught out, panicked and now hopes that it will all go away soon and people will forget her name. People now just assume she is a scammer. She could still possibly redeem herself somewhat if she just came out with it and spoke with Dave (and others), there is no shame in being wrong and admitting your failures.

She has my email and phone number.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on June 29, 2018, 03:39:47 am
it's quite obvious that she was trying to get money to build a shell app for technology that would never exist in a form that could be used in the way it was promoted to work.
If that's not a conning people out of money then i don't know what is.  I really wonder if she is in any legal jeopardy for doing this, i don't know the laws in Australia. ... hmm, dave might be called to testify! 
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on June 29, 2018, 04:37:32 am
All other things aside, does it really cost 30K to make a dummy mobile app with maybe a button or two and some fancy animated picture of a charging battery?

Disclamer: i am not a programmer, let alone mobile device programmer. So i have no clue of mobile platforms development costs.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ataradov on June 29, 2018, 04:39:17 am
All other things aside, does it really cost 30K to make a dummy mobile app with maybe a button or two and some fancy animated picture of a charging battery?
Half a day worth of work, even you have no idea what you are doing and just googling tutorials.

Integration of blockchain will take longer. The longest part would be figuring out what exactly blockchain will do here.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: chickenHeadKnob on June 29, 2018, 05:30:06 am
All other things aside, does it really cost 30K to make a dummy mobile app with maybe a button or two and some fancy animated picture of a charging battery?
Half a day worth of work, even you have no idea what you are doing and just googling tutorials.

Integration of blockchain will take longer. The longest part would be figuring out what exactly blockchain will do here.

The good folks on this forum have been focusing on the kickstarter/technology aspect of this campaign as we are wont to do, but what if the real scam here is the initial coin offering? They only need a flashy kickstarter as a prop, the real deal  will be the BattBump tokens, get in on the ground floor now whilst you can! Before the Nigerian princes get in like flynn and drive the price up. Part of the pitch for the kickstarter was that you would go around and charge random strangers phones to score BB tokens. Maybe they figured no one would question the technical implausibility so quickly and completely.  Initial Coin Offerings are where the heavy weight scammers  are toiling now.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 29, 2018, 11:16:02 am
[...] Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. [...]
Apples and oranges.
Making a joke about raising money is quite a different thing than actually asking for money.


All other things aside, does it really cost 30K to make a dummy mobile app with maybe a button or two and some fancy animated picture of a charging battery?
Half a day worth of work, even you have no idea what you are doing and just googling tutorials.
Or - equally possible - you would go to StackOverflow, briefly tell your idea and ask a question like "Can somebody help me write this app?". Then you sit there the whole day and wonder why no one seems wanting to write that app with you while everybody under the sun downvotes your cry for help. Then you spend half of the next day googling tutorials... ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: dcac on June 29, 2018, 02:31:15 pm
BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!

I wonder how long that prediction will stand.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on June 29, 2018, 02:48:52 pm
The good folks on this forum have been focusing on the kickstarter/technology aspect of this campaign as we are wont to do, but what if the real scam here is the initial coin offering? They only need a flashy kickstarter as a prop, the real deal  will be the BattBump tokens
....
Initial Coin Offerings are where the heavy weight scammers  are toiling now.

Well it appears you even do not need a technology kickstarter for a token ICO. Check out this link and see how successfull that one was. Being honest pays out!  :D

https://uetoken.com/ (https://uetoken.com/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on June 30, 2018, 01:39:44 am
[...] Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. [...]
Apples and oranges.
Making a joke about raising money is quite a different thing than actually asking for money.

https://pozible.com/project/35309 (https://pozible.com/project/35309)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost)

Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples. They only difference I can see is the allegiance of the audience someone with a powerful Internet or social media presence commands. And bringing it to bear against such a powerless individual is just bullying in my eyes. The only encouraging thing I can take from this is how few of the established forum members joined in. Reading between the lines that says a lot for the forum here.

I leave it to you to come to your own conclusions. I've made it perfectly clear where I stand.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on June 30, 2018, 07:21:45 am
previously linked backup of original seems to be removed, new one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYWGLCRxTxA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYWGLCRxTxA)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on June 30, 2018, 07:53:26 am
Good one erkko

 :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 30, 2018, 09:46:57 am
[...] Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. [...]
Apples and oranges.
Making a joke about raising money is quite a different thing than actually asking for money.

https://pozible.com/project/35309 (https://pozible.com/project/35309)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost)

Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples. They only difference I can see is the allegiance of the audience someone with a powerful Internet or social media presence commands. And bringing it to bear against such a powerless individual is just bullying in my eyes. The only encouraging thing I can take from this is how few of the established forum members joined in. Reading between the lines that says a lot for the forum here.

I leave it to you to come to your own conclusions. I've made it perfectly clear where I stand.
I stand corrected. I miread your comment as Dave making a joke about trying to raise money for a house (like he was making jokes about renting/buying the Altium building).  Didn't know he actually did it. Thanks for the link + clarification.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on June 30, 2018, 10:26:25 am
Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples.

a) Turning a mansion into a hackerspace doesn't break any laws of physics.

b) Dave might have done it if he raised that much money.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 30, 2018, 11:08:02 am
[...] Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. [...]
Apples and oranges.
Making a joke about raising money is quite a different thing than actually asking for money.

https://pozible.com/project/35309 (https://pozible.com/project/35309)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost)

Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples.

Wilfred, BattBump was not a joke, you are just continually shit stirring, let it go. You have a long history of antagonising me at every opportunity, stop it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on June 30, 2018, 11:11:59 am
I stand corrected. I miread your comment as Dave making a joke about trying to raise money for a house (like he was making jokes about renting/buying the Altium building).  Didn't know he actually did it. Thanks for the link + clarification.

For those interested, the CEO of Pozzible cleared my joke campaign.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on June 30, 2018, 11:22:27 am
For those interested, the CEO of Pozzible cleared my joke campaign.

Would you have really done it if you got the money?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on June 30, 2018, 11:38:17 am
[...] Dave himself said he tried to raise money to buy a mansion as a joke. [...]
Apples and oranges.
Making a joke about raising money is quite a different thing than actually asking for money.

https://pozible.com/project/35309 (https://pozible.com/project/35309)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/fairfax-mansion-sydney-hackerspace/#lastPost)

Not apples and oranges. Apples and apples.

Wilfred, BattBump was not a joke, you are just continually shit stirring, let it go. You have a long history of antagonising me at every opportunity, stop it.
You can't really blame Wilfred for correcting my misinterpretation of his comment...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 01, 2018, 02:24:42 am
I think that the joy some people in this thread are having gathering info and rebroadcasting and making it more searchable, when the person in question is trying to hide, is actually pretty sick.

I'm feeling very disappointed in eevblog and some of the forum members right now.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 01, 2018, 02:28:47 am
Yes the Kickstarter was fucking stupid.

Keeping on dragging up the person's name (and you can bet there's more than one person behind it, but let's just vigilante one of them, eh?) for the purposes of ruining their online reputation forever is far worse
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 01, 2018, 02:54:00 am
... for the purposes of ruining their online reputation forever is far worse

That is a rather severe accusation - and completely unwarranted, IMHO.

There may be some record of the person's name - but to say it is specifically and solely intended as a defamatory action is really reaching beyond the reasonable.


Personally, I think she did not think too far when starting the campaign.  Young people do not seem to really understand the power of the internet, nor of the dangers in putting oneself out there like this.  As a result, because of how it could reflect upon the production company she was with, they told her to make it go away - and she has panicked.

The problem is - once stuff has been put up on the internet, completely erasing it from existence is really difficult.


I would like such a message to be heard loud and long, so that those who are complacent and feel the internet is "not so bad" a place, take heed and start to appreciate the risks and dangers.  There are things far worse than embarrassment out there ... and you can start with social media.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 01, 2018, 03:10:49 am
Yes the Kickstarter was fucking stupid.

Keeping on dragging up the person's name (and you can bet there's more than one person behind it, but let's just vigilante one of them, eh?) for the purposes of ruining their online reputation forever is far worse

I certainly respect your perspective, however to call it "sick" is a bit much.

It seems quite clear that the person who put their name and photo to the Kickstarter campaign was being deliberately deceitful. She was after one thing - MONEY and she was going to go to as little effort as possible to get it. Personally, I think at best her moral values come into question. At worst, she is getting awfully close to "obtaining benefit by deception" or in other words, fraud.

The entire campaign centred around something that doesn't really exist and wasn't going to exist even if the campaign was funded. For $30,000, she was going to release a poxy shell of an application that did not perform the intended function (which was to wirelessly transmit power from one user to another). I think she thought that the wider internet community was too stupid and would just part with their money.

She was found out (by Dave), went into hiding and refused to answer or address the audience, which she created by drawing attention to herself. She could have quite easily just come out and said "I didn't do my homework, I was wrong" and everyone would have chopped it up to another failed crowd funding project.

None of what actually happened sound like the actions of a person who had no malicious intent.

EDIT: Corrected an inaccuracy.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 01, 2018, 04:02:31 am
There is also the possibility that someone with specific intent to defraud used her as a front man and her basic flaw was naivety.  Then, when the storm hit, so did reality.

If that was the case, then Dave did her a favour by calling it out.  She avoided the ugliness that would have ensued, had the campaign achieved its target and real money came into play.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 06:46:04 am
Personally, I think she did not think too far when starting the campaign.  Young people do not seem to really understand the power of the internet, nor of the dangers in putting oneself out there like this.  As a result, because of how it could reflect upon the production company she was with, they told her to make it go away - and she has panicked.

I have some extra information I won't mention that I think indicates that this wasn't the case, I'm fairly confident the campaign owner closed it of their own accord.
Also, the fact that the campaign was changed about an hour or even less after I did my video (along with the owners personal website), and that the campaign was gone only mear hours after that , it's almost impossible for a large organisation to see this and act that swiftly. I'm pretty confident the campaign owner(s?) did it all off their own bat.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 06:51:44 am
She was found out (by Dave)

Actually, turns out I wasn't the first. Unknown to me at the time, both Reddit and that other crypto blogger had already started to publicly investigate this campaign, and the owner already knew about this as she had been contacted by the blogger and a German journalist previously questioning the campaign. As when you include a crypto aspect in your tech product, you have a whole other community apart from tech journalists who are going to investigate.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 01, 2018, 09:18:24 am
She was found out (by Dave)

Actually, turns out I wasn't the first. Unknown to me at the time, both Reddit and that other crypto blogger had already started to publicly investigate this campaign, and the owner already knew about this as she had been contacted by the blogger and a German journalist previously questioning the campaign. As when you include a crypto aspect in your tech product, you have a whole other community apart from tech journalists who are going to investigate.

I stand corrected. Although shit seemed to have "got real" for her once your video came out. I've never seen anyone back-pedal that fast before!

(https://i2.wp.com/www.globalwealthprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/chief-wiggum-300x225.png?resize=300%2C225&ssl=1)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 01, 2018, 12:54:56 pm
Personally, I think she did not think too far when starting the campaign.  Young people do not seem to really understand the power of the internet, nor of the dangers in putting oneself out there like this.  As a result, because of how it could reflect upon the production company she was with, they told her to make it go away - and she has panicked.

I have some extra information I won't mention that I think indicates that this wasn't the case, I'm fairly confident the campaign owner closed it of their own accord.
Intriguing - but destined to remain a mystery to we mortals.

Quote
Also, the fact that the campaign was changed about an hour or even less after I did my video (along with the owners personal website), and that the campaign was gone only mear hours after that , it's almost impossible for a large organisation to see this and act that swiftly. I'm pretty confident the campaign owner(s?) did it all off their own bat.
Considering that yours was not the first critical assessment, the time window is wider and there may have been some earlier trigger for an organisational response.

But it really doesn't matter in the end.  The campaign is gone, which is the main thing.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: richfiles on July 01, 2018, 08:11:57 pm
I personally find the people defending this likely fraudster to be borderline sickening.  ::) :bullshit:

I'm happy she was exposed... Not because she deserves exposure, but because the tech-illiterate masses don't deserve to be scammed, nor does the next batch of 'em deserved to be scammed. It's ALWAYS important to report on these frauds, to make people aware that they exist. There's too little to prevent this from happening, without diligent reporting.

This wouldn't have ever been a big deal if she hadn't attacked Dave's video reporting on this. Once she attacked journalism, she became FAIR GAME for reporting on her, her attacks, and her fraud!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Koen on July 01, 2018, 09:30:26 pm
It's not about defending her. It's about the few morons who published intimate details of her life here earlier.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on July 02, 2018, 12:01:02 am
I personally find the people defending this likely fraudster to be borderline sickening.  ::) :bullshit:

I'm happy she was exposed... Not because she deserves exposure, but because the tech-illiterate masses don't deserve to be scammed, nor does the next batch of 'em deserved to be scammed. It's ALWAYS important to report on these frauds, to make people aware that they exist. There's too little to prevent this from happening, without diligent reporting.

This wouldn't have ever been a big deal if she hadn't attacked Dave's video reporting on this. Once she attacked journalism, she became FAIR GAME for reporting on her, her attacks, and her fraud!

Can I infer from your use of the word likely that you too don't actually know she was attempting anything more than a prank , joke or a test of her own to see how easily it was to set up a scam on a crowdfunding site?

Because if you don't know for certain what her motives were then you should tread more cautiously.

And as for putting the blame back onto her for "attacking" the video, well I think that has an undertone of victim blaming. Given that you've shown nothing to justify how you can be so certain. It is a similar mentality to that which women often experience, she shouldn't have provoked him, she shouldn't have worn such revealing clothing, or gone out alone at night and so on. just ask women you know and they all will tell you.

It shouldn't have escaped your notice how often these forum threads have a women at the sharp end of it. Far more often than you would expect given the number of women in engineering or at the top of business. Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes, Purdue University's Donna Riley, uBeam's Meredith Perry and now this one. I'm not saying they are all equally undeserving of criticism but it is starting to become a trend of women getting particularly harsh treatment beyond objective critisism. There was another thread about some YT creator who wore skimpy clothing whose name escapes me at present. It went right over the top too.

I am not a complete fool expecting a Utopian haven here. I said it before it is a testament to this forum how the regular stalwarts stay out of the fray.
I'm not even saying this was not a scam attempt. All I am saying is this woman was sufficiently powerless that she could have been afforded the benefit of the doubt and the whole affair allowed to fade to black.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 01:46:49 am
Wilfred, do not bring gender into this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. I will not let this thread get hijacked in that way.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 03:37:01 am
Wilfred, do not bring gender into this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. I will not let this thread get hijacked in that way.

OK, So it's just a massive unfortunate coincidence that all the dumb/fraudulent tech companies being attacked across the interwebz are headed by women, and the women figureheads are the ones singled out for sustained negative attention in these various different threads?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 03:47:35 am
and really... yeah it *could* be a scam, but really it sounds to me just like the countless people I've heard from over the years who have a *killer idea* for a new groundbreaking product (I can just hear their voices now... "it's like uber, but for phone charge!")

You wouldn't believe the number of people that come to me as a technical consultant with awesome new world breaking ideas that are patently just not possible, at least with current tech, and I have to spend my time talking them through why I'm not going to quote on building their new awesome free energy telepathic plant watering IoT grasshopper robot that you charge once a week by putting in your ear during a phonecall....

The difference here is, the MVP was an app, so they didn't look at the tech details. Chances are they had assumed that QI charging on phones went both ways, just like NFC and had no thought to check it might not be true (or even more likely they probably mixed NFC and wireless charging up, and thought they were the same thing)  so they did their lean startup thing and hacked together a big flashy video and launched as fast as possible with the idea that the market would validate or reject...  and if it was rejected they could just let it die like all the other dumb ideas that float through kickstarter and fall out the other end... if it was a hit then they would build it up and see where it would go.

Instead a bunch of people on the internet have attacked, far beyond the point where the response is proportional or fair.. Something they were not expecting.


What I really want to know here, is how the HELL did kickstarter let this through the gates? it's so patently stupid that if it was given just the faintest sniff of technical oversight by kickstarter,  it should have not been allowed to launch.

That's the real story... how come, after so much real obvious fraud in the history of crowdfunding, could something with so little basis in reality even get through the gates?? What is kickstarter doing? how are they allowing this? how are they going to make sure this doesn't happen again?

That's the kind of journalism I'd rather see, instead of something that causes a great big inetrnet doxxing pile-on, on someone who may not be the only person involved in the stupid kickstarter (which may or may not have been deliberate fraud)  to the point where her name is going to be mud for the rest of her life.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 04:42:15 am
Wilfred, do not bring gender into this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. I will not let this thread get hijacked in that way.
OK, So it's just a massive unfortunate coincidence that all the dumb/fraudulent tech companies being attacked across the interwebz are headed by women, and the women figureheads are the ones singled out for sustained negative attention in these various different threads?

You conveniently forget all the ones that are "attacked" just the same and they are run by men.
I said drop it, I do not want this thread re-railed into gender politics when it's got absolutely nothing to do with it, I mean it, don't start it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 04:52:54 am
That's the kind of journalism I'd rather see, instead of something that causes a great big inetrnet doxxing pile-on

It doesn't magically work like that.
You have to debunk the idea first in order to start the narrative about how "how the hell did Kickstarter allow this ridiculous campaign". They kinda go hand-in-hand. So the community reaction could very well be exactly the same. And on a tech forum like this one, most people are going to care about the technicalities of the ridiculousness of the idea and whoever is behind it (because that's often interesting), rather than care about how Kickstarter allowed it.
And Kickstarter allowing campaigns like this is a story that's been around since day dot, no one is the least bit surprised by it.

But hey, I get you, that's probably a story worth doing if done right. Why don't you go and do it? Anyone can be a journalist these days and do a good invetsigative story and publish it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: richfiles on July 02, 2018, 04:56:37 am
Instead a bunch of people on the internet have attacked, far beyond the point where the response is proportional or fair. Something they were not expecting.
...
That's the kind of journalism I'd rather see, instead of something that causes a great big inetrnet doxxing pile-on, on someone who may not be the only person involved in the stupid kickstarter (which may or may not have been deliberate fraud)  to the point where her name is going to be mud for the rest of her life.

You... You REALLY do not even GET the point. Dave and others ONLY reported on this fairly, calling out that this was bullshit. It wasn't until Dave's reporting on this absurdity was itself attacked, that any escalation occurred! Dave said NOTHING that wasn't already public knowledge... Nothing that SHE HERSELF had not made public! Whether it was her, her employer, a partner, or some random fool, SOMEONE INVOLVED with this kickstarter abused YouTube's privacy claim system to attack Dave's 100% fair and legitimate video!

And you are saying that the internet responding to an attack on freedom of the press, free speech, and an abuse of YouTube's systems to cover up reporting of the illegitimacy of that kickstarter is somehow "Something they were not expecting." Are you fucking daft?!? You think that trying to maintain the presence and existence of information SHE VOLUNTEERED TO THE INTERNET is somehow "far beyond the point where the response is proportional or fair"!?! She put that info out, voluntarily. She did something wrong. The internet is making sure that people remember that this is a person who is either a scammer trying to cover her tracks, or trying to attack fair reporting on her mistakes. Either way, SHE IS NOT A GOOD PERSON! Even if it was a mistake, it was her or her campaign that went on the offensive and opened their attacks on journalistic coverage of the kickstarter!

On top of everything else, you go on and vilify the JOURNALISM ITSELF, claiming it caused this! NO! This woman caused this by attacking fair and reasonable reporting of her campaign! The JOURNALISM caused nothing! If this woman had just deleted all her stuff, and went quiet, NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED...

It's because she deleted her stuff, and THEN ATTACKED DAVE'S VIDEO with an unjustified, illegitimate YouTube claim! It's HER ACTIONS that caused the internet's reactions! NOT DAVE, Not his video's content... HER ACTIONS ALONE are responsible for the internet's Streisand effect against her!

This is NOT a person I'd ever want to do business with, and quite frankly... if you put your own name out there and do stupid or shady shit, you are going to earn a reputation! This is the simple consequence of putting yourself out there and begging for a public handout! If you fail to actually follow through with what you promise, you stand to be vilified. You'd better be respectful of the public or they might just bite the hand that takes from them! If you make a promise you can't keep... For goodness sakes! Have common sense... Apologize, refund if possible, even a partial refund is better than walking with it, state you made a misjudgment, and retreat! Don't go on the offensive to defend a mistake, and attack those who call you out! That's what this woman did, and she deserves absolutely jack shit for respect from anyone for her stupidity!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on July 02, 2018, 05:10:10 am
It shouldn't have escaped your notice how often these forum threads have a women at the sharp end of it. Far more often than you would expect given the number of women in engineering or at the top of business. Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes, Purdue University's Donna Riley, uBeam's Meredith Perry and now this one.


Wait. Are you defending this scammer by citing other "victims", whom 2 out of 3 are also scammers?  :wtf:


OK, So it's just a massive unfortunate coincidence that all the dumb/fraudulent tech companies being attacked across the interwebz are headed by women, and the women figureheads are the ones singled out for sustained negative attention in these various different threads?

the F, its just you being target fixated and ignorant. There is ~$300 billion currently sitting in all the cryptocurrency "startups". Even if you are naive enough to believe that is the future, in just this year we had over >$3B in "exits" that turned out to be outright scams, all ran by enthusiastic dudebros with manbuns and goaetees.


You wouldn't believe the number of people that come to me as a technical consultant with awesome new world breaking ideas that are patently just not possible, at least with current tech, and I have to spend my time talking them through why I'm not going to quote on building their new awesome free energy telepathic plant watering IoT grasshopper robot that you charge once a week by putting in your ear during a phonecall....

There is a difference between deluded client hiring someone to build his car running on water, and idiot promising cars running on water while collecting public money.

The difference here is, the MVP was an app

no, the difference is someone attempted to defraud potential clients. For example in finance SEC puts due diligence obligations squarely on the shoulders of person collecting and investing peoples money, and pretty conveniently KS is not a store (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store), but an "investment" ;)


What I really want to know here, is how the HELL did kickstarter let this through the gates? it's so patently stupid that if it was given just the faintest sniff of technical oversight by kickstarter,  it should have not been allowed to launch.

no no, its all cool, KS has Policy and Integrity team! https://www.kickstarter.com/trust (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust), they monitor the system and take action!11
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 02, 2018, 05:55:41 am
Wilfred, do not bring gender into this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. I will not let this thread get hijacked in that way.

OK, So it's just a massive unfortunate coincidence that all the dumb/fraudulent tech companies being attacked across the interwebz are headed by women, and the women figureheads are the ones singled out for sustained negative attention in these various different threads?

No, it's a made-up statistic. It has nothing at all to do with boobs or penises. You don't have to look far to see that what you claim just isn't the case. Let me start with the Roohparvar's, remember that fiasco?

Gender has nothing to do with whether a business succeeds or fails, or whether an idea is a good one or a terrible one. Absolutely zero correlation at all. I'd employ a trained seal if they were suitable for the job.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 06:17:29 am
the F, its just you being target fixated and ignorant. There is ~$300 billion currently sitting in all the cryptocurrency "startups". Even if you are naive enough to believe that is the future, in just this year we had over >$3B in "exits" that turned out to be outright scams, all ran by enthusiastic dudebros with manbuns and goaetees.

I was curious about cryptocurrency but stayed away.. I wish I'd thrown in $100 back when it started, because I'd be loaded now... (well, no I probably would have lost the key to my wallet and be kicking myself over the money I technically owned but had no access to...) but those days are long gone and will never happen again. Now it's just buzzword compliance and fast money sharks chewing up the carcass of whatever is left of the idea.

I believe most things trying to incorporate it at this point are just trying to be buzzword compliant... And yeah I wouldn't go near an ICO... If we knew for certain that batbump was really going for an ICO, I'd be more sure it was a scam. But we don't.

Quote
There is a difference between deluded client hiring someone to build his car running on water, and idiot promising cars running on water while collecting public money.
Quote
no, the difference is someone attempted to defraud potential clients. For example in finance SEC puts due diligence obligations squarely on the shoulders of person collecting and investing peoples money, and pretty conveniently KS is not a store (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store), but an "investment" ;)


Seriously, the whole video talks *just like* real people I have spoken to.. (don't see so many manbuns and goatees around lately though, much more clean cut healthy lifestyle look)

I can see any number of people I've spoken to who are like that coming up with this idea. The only reason I saw the ones I saw is because their MVP included hardware.. otherwise if it was something for a later stage, they would have just assumed it would work, and gone with it.

The whole lean startup thing people follow these days is *all about* rushing the idea out to market where it can be tested without wasting time on understanding if it's even possible. because who cares if it's even possible when you don't even know if people even want it?  The whole lean startup premise is that any initial market approach is just a kind of "product discovery" process for the thing that might one day end up existing. And if it fails, it's all good, because it cost next to nothing to launch, and they will move on to the next one.

Quote
no no, its all cool, KS has Policy and Integrity team! https://www.kickstarter.com/trust (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust), they monitor the system and take action!11

And again, this is where the real news story should be... This particular kickstarter campaign going live was a massive and fundamental failure of any proactive screening system they apparently have. Anyone who knew the basic capabilities of a modern phone could stomp this whole project with about 20 seconds of viewing the video.

So why didn't they?
How exactly did this get through?

Who is responsible for it not happening again? And what will they do different to make sure it can't happen again?

My greatest confusion here is why isn't anyone here talking about kickstarter's absolute failure to do what it claims to do for its cut of your cash?  And why isn't anyone talking about the implications for kickstarter's future that this failure has?

Why is it that instead of all this stuff we should talk about, it's just some random "creative" who is suddenly the face of all evil and must be wiped off the earth by flinging her name up all over the internet repeatedly so that for as long as anyone might ever want to google her name, this thread full of people claiming she's a completely unethical criminal mastermind who was totally out to rip off anyone who ever wanted a new way to charge their phone will be all they see?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 06:37:02 am
My greatest confusion here is why isn't anyone here talking about kickstarter's absolute failure to do what it claims to do for its cut of your cash?  And why isn't anyone talking about the implications for kickstarter's future that this failure has?

Maybe it doesn't interest them?

Quote
Why is it that instead of all this stuff we should talk about, it's just some random "creative" who is suddenly the face of all evil and must be wiped off the earth by flinging her name up all over the internet repeatedly so that for as long as anyone might ever want to google her name, this thread full of people claiming she's a completely unethical criminal mastermind who was totally out to rip off anyone who ever wanted a new way to charge their phone will be all they see?

Melodramatic much?

YOU have the ability to change the discourse. Don't like the direction an internet discussion goes, post your own stuff and get people talking about that. Just don't complain about the aspects other people want to talk about, that's up them, just like it's up to you to talk about what you want to talk about. That's how the internet works.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 02, 2018, 06:56:36 am
Anyone who knew the basic capabilities of a modern phone could stomp this whole project with about 20 seconds of viewing the video.

And ... what percentage of the population knows that?

Who is responsible for it not happening again?

LOL!

My greatest confusion here is why isn't anyone here talking about kickstarter's absolute failure to do what it claims to do for its cut of your cash?

Whatever you do in the next few minutes, don't go and look at the patent office. You'll never recover.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 08:35:23 am
Maybe it doesn't interest them?

Which it itself is interesting, because it seems that it'd be far more newsworthy to talk about a major internet business whose *one job* is to host campaigns for what are mostly new tech innovations, claims to be providing oversight on new projects to protect users, but fails in such a complete way to flag something that's obviously impossible to anyone who knows the basics of phone components.

Melodramatic much?

I know an internet pile-on when I see it.

YOU have the ability to change the discourse. Don't like the direction an internet discussion goes, post your own stuff and get people talking about that. Just don't complain about the aspects other people want to talk about, that's up them, just like it's up to you to talk about what you want to talk about. That's how the internet works.

But I am here, discussing my take on this situation as it stands right now.  Just like everyone else in the thread (though most others aren't being asked to stop talking here and go talk in other threads instead)

And I haven't told anyone what they can and can't talk about.  Or directed anyone to not talk about any aspect of anything to do with this.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 08:38:00 am
Anyone who knew the basic capabilities of a modern phone could stomp this whole project with about 20 seconds of viewing the video.

And ... what percentage of the population knows that?

Who is responsible for it not happening again?

LOL!



I'd say 1% of the population would know that you can't use a smartphone to wirelessly charge another smartphone (And maybe 1% of those could explain why, and have general tech knowledge at the level to at least be able to quickly research feasibility of most campaigns) But they only need one person at that level to check that for many many many campaigns.

And why exactly is it so funny that a business who makes money running crowdfunding campaigns, takes money from funders to do so, and claims to have some kind of oversight in place to look after the people who pay it to exist, should actually do what it claims to protect its customers?

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 10:26:00 am
Which it itself is interesting, because it seems that it'd be far more newsworthy to talk about a major internet business whose *one job* is to host campaigns for what are mostly new tech innovations, claims to be providing oversight on new projects to protect users

Show me where they claim to do that.
https://www.kickstarter.com/rules (https://www.kickstarter.com/rules)
https://www.kickstarter.com/help/handbook?ref=global-footer (https://www.kickstarter.com/help/handbook?ref=global-footer)


https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-project-review-process (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-project-review-process)

They claim:
Quote
What is the project review process and why do you review projects at all?

We review projects before they launch just to make sure that they’re suitable for the Kickstarter community. We check to make sure that each project falls into one of these 15 creative categories and meets our rules. These rules and review process are in place to ensure that Kickstarter remains a community that’s all about supporting creative ideas. All-in-all, we accept about 80% of the projects that come our way.

Also:
https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005138273-Does-Kickstarter-review-projects-before-launch- (https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005138273-Does-Kickstarter-review-projects-before-launch-)
Quote
Does Kickstarter review projects before launch?
Yes we do. Our Launch Now feature uses an algorithm incorporating thousands of data points to check whether a project is ready to launch — things like the project’s description, rewards, funding goal, and whether the creator has previously launched a project.

If the project qualifies for Launch Now, the creator can go live whenever they’re ready.

If a project doesn’t qualify for Launch Now, the creator will need to share the project with us for review before it can launch. We will make sure the project is in line with our rules, and verify that it’s a project with a specific, finite goal — we do not investigate a creator’s ability to complete their project. We may also offer the creator helpful feedback on ways to structure or present their project. This process usually takes up to three business days.


Quote
But I am here, discussing my take on this situation as it stands right now.  Just like everyone else in the thread (though most others aren't being asked to stop talking here and go talk in other threads instead)

And I haven't told anyone what they can and can't talk about.  Or directed anyone to not talk about any aspect of anything to do with this.

But you did try to hijack the thread into gender politics where none existed to begin with, which is why you were told to stop.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 11:14:41 am
Hi Dave, right at the top of the page you linked, in the big wall of big text....

https://www.kickstarter.com/trust (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=467384;image)


As for the gender politics stuff, which was a point about women *in general* in tech failure/scam companies and the reaction of mento them - I had dropped that thread immediately, when you asked. And I did not push it a peep further.  I have been all about this particular situation that this particular thread is about since you asked me to.

On consideration I'm at least as uninterested in having a gender politics discussion here as you are in having to host the discussion.

And the thing is, as it was pointed out by others, gender of the pile-on target is really irrelevant to what I came here to say, and I'd be of the same fundamental position on this discussion if it was a man we were talking about.

But we are talking about a woman, so I did continue to use she/her when referring to the specific person in question.  if we re-word my last post using he/him (or even they/their) instead, and I think the melodramatic paragraph still makes sense. (well, as much as it did originally.. It could do with a lot more rewriting than just a gender shift)



Also looks like I missed another reply....
I'd be happy to have a go at writing a piece on kickstarter's problem here, but I'm not the best writer out there (see my melodramatic paragraph in previous post) so it'll take real time away from my work to get right. And I don't think I have a platform where people could find it. And I expect if people did find it, then KickStarter can afford some pretty bitey lawyers, so a pre-publication check would be pretty long and probably expensive.... (And what if I wanted to run kickstarter campaigns of my own one day?)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 02, 2018, 12:12:03 pm
To be fair "pro-actively screening" means just as much as "Made in Australia from local and imported ingredients".

Their interpretation of "screening" can mean as little as an automated profanity filter or as much as "a human dip-samples a bunch of entries". Also, according to Kickstarter, they only screen for potential problems. It suggests that they mostly rely on people to report individual projects for manual review.

It would be like asking ebay to screen all its listings. It's not going to happen. Scammers and dishonest people will fall through the cracks.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 02, 2018, 12:21:23 pm
yeah, I'm no lawyer... possibly it would mean that little, but it's a consumer facing website, and that's the big text.

I don't think running a text scanner for naughty words (and maybe free energy key phrases, I bet they get their share of those and none of those have launched to my knowledge) over a campaign really cuts it when you're declaring your job - your one job that you claim as provider of the service to users -  is to screen for problems.

I think the whole crowdfunding scene is a giant mess. I've done OK with it as a supporter, having been very careful with what I back, but the whole thing just seems so hokey and borderline legal.

Seems to me that crowd funding systems need to be a hell of a lot better.

ooooh. is that an MVP I have rattling around in the back of my brain now? 

I wonder if I could launch a kickstarter project for a properly checked competitor to kickstarter?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 01:08:35 pm
Hi Dave, right at the top of the page you linked, in the big wall of big text....

https://www.kickstarter.com/trust (https://www.kickstarter.com/trust)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=467384;image)

Which means they follow the rules I linked, that's all. They make no claim what so ever about technically evaluating campaign claims. If you know of such a claim, please post it.
Which is probably why no one cares much, because it's been a long standing and well known problem.


Quote
I'd be happy to have a go at writing a piece on kickstarter's problem here, but I'm not the best writer out there (see my melodramatic paragraph in previous post) so it'll take real time away from my work to get right. And I don't think I have a platform where people could find it. And I expect if people did find it, then KickStarter can afford some pretty bitey lawyers, so a pre-publication check would be pretty long and probably expensive.... (And what if I wanted to run kickstarter campaigns of my own one day?)

As if Kickstarter are going to sue you for writing an opinion piece about them.  Or as if they are going to somehow ban you for such a piece.
Not going to happen, to be the least bit concerned about that is  :-DD
There is no expense in writing an article, just time.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 02, 2018, 01:12:28 pm
I don't think running a text scanner for naughty words (and maybe free energy key phrases, I bet they get their share of those and none of those have launched to my knowledge)

http://kickfailure.com/2014/06/26/free-energy-scam/ (http://kickfailure.com/2014/06/26/free-energy-scam/)
http://kickfailure.com/tag/free-energy/ (http://kickfailure.com/tag/free-energy/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 03, 2018, 08:03:02 am
You guessed it, the saga just won't end.
Someone bought paid Dislikes on both of my BattBump videos.
Pathetic.
And obviously they don't realise that those dislikes count positively toward the engagement algorithm metric, thus making my video even more popular  :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=467981;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=467987;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=467993;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 03, 2018, 08:51:09 am
You can buy dislikes? LOL, something's very wrong with this world.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: gnif on July 03, 2018, 09:22:05 am
When the Borg gain access to BattBump!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxz1uCDvX0Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxz1uCDvX0Q)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 03, 2018, 10:53:39 am
You guessed it, the saga just won't end.
Someone bought paid Dislikes on both of my BattBump videos.
Pathetic.

Any presumption that she was just an innocent child who didn't know what she was doing ends right there.

Anybody who knows how to pay for dislikes goes straight in the same bin as the Batteroo Brothers. It's now open season on Bumpgirl.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 03, 2018, 11:08:05 am
Is it possible to remove stuff from the Internet Archive?

If you go to her website there, it's empty:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.catclark.co/ (https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.catclark.co/)

Nothing at all before the 27th of June (yeah, right...) and only a blank page after that.

Aaaaand, the exact same thing for battbump.com (https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.battbump.com/), there's nothing before the 27th of June. What are the chances of that?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 03, 2018, 11:13:58 am
battbump.com wasn't archived at archive.org last time I checked. There was a button saying "click here to add/archive a snapshot of battbump.org" or something ~ like that.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on July 03, 2018, 11:22:16 am
thats how i would do it. customer arrives with domain name that i have no snapshot of, yet domain exists. or i would present customer a button... main point being, it probably wasnt removed from archive org, it just didnt exist before that date.

google already doesnt show that specific url among its searchresults, at least for me it doesnt.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 03, 2018, 11:23:09 am
battbump.com wasn't archived at archive.org last time I tried. There was a button saying "click here to add/archive a snapshot of battbump.org" or something ~ like that.

Maybe they only just deleted it a few minutes before you visited.

As a test I just looked up a couple of obscure domains that I've registered in the past and there's snapshots on there right back to the first day I registered them, complete with the dummy page I put up. I can garantee that nobody went to wayback machine to look up those web sites back then.

(and an 'archive' that isn't based on DNS tables doesn't make any logical sense anyway)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 03, 2018, 11:25:18 am
You guessed it, the saga just won't end.
Someone bought paid Dislikes on both of my BattBump videos.
Pathetic.
And obviously they don't realise that those dislikes count positively toward the engagement algorithm metric, thus making my video even more popular  :-DD

Brilliant! Does that mean Cat someone is now a supporter of yours?

Those dislikes mean absolutely nothing and most people don't even look at those figures. Dislikes could also represent a dislike of the product being described in the video (in this case a dislike of BattBump) not a dislike to you or the video itself.

I love it.  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 03, 2018, 11:35:45 am
If she removes all references to Cat Clark from the rest of the Internet then the only hits remaining will be on these forums.  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 03, 2018, 11:38:03 am
Quote
Dislikes could also represent a dislike of the product being described in the video (in this case a dislike of BattBump) not a dislike to you or the video itself
Yeah, that happens to me often: I see a video I like about something nasty I dislike and my brain kind of short circuits: a thumbs up or a thumbs down?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: madires on July 03, 2018, 01:01:18 pm
Awesome! A new daily debunk soap opera. Can't wait for the next episode >:D

But seriously, an apology with an explanation would have ended this drama easily without causing too much damage to Miss BattBump's reputation (just a juvenile folly). Going for the Streisand effect makes everything much worse and will stick longer. What will be the next brilliant step after buying dislikes on Dave's youtube videos?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on July 03, 2018, 01:08:28 pm
Awesome! A new daily debunk soap opera. Can't wait for the next episode >:D

But seriously, an apology with an explanation would have ended this drama easily without causing too much damage to Miss BattBump's reputation (just a juvenile folly). Going for the Streisand effect makes everything much worse and will stick longer. What will be the next brilliant step after buying dislikes on Dave's youtube videos?

long waited "next" would be dave re-uploading original video without any redactions. if youtube shall remove it on its own accord - its better than anonymous bought dislikes.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on July 03, 2018, 02:04:13 pm
Is it possible to remove stuff from the Internet Archive?

If you go to her website there, it's empty:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.catclark.co/ (https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.catclark.co/)

Nothing at all before the 27th of June (yeah, right...) and only a blank page after that.

Aaaaand, the exact same thing for battbump.com (https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.battbump.com/), there's nothing before the 27th of June. What are the chances of that?  :popcorn:

web.archive.org has a nasty habit of letting domain owners retroactively censor archive content with robots.txt
archive.is is an alternative ignoring censorship attempts, sadly it first crawled on 28, at the time website was already reset back to default wix template http://archive.is/http://www.catclark.co/ (http://archive.is/http://www.catclark.co/)
but was able to catch http://archive.is/http://www.battbump.com/ (http://archive.is/http://www.battbump.com/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 03, 2018, 11:38:08 pm
You can buy dislikes? LOL, something's very wrong with this world.

Yup, not the first time either:
(Yep, another Kickstarter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU08zwBH-wo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU08zwBH-wo)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 04, 2018, 03:44:39 am
How long before someone gathers every bit of public information about her and her "invention" and puts it in a torrent?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 04, 2018, 05:12:35 am
Any presumption that she was just an innocent child who didn't know what she was doing ends right there.

Anybody who knows how to pay for dislikes goes straight in the same bin as the Batteroo Brothers.

Wow.. that's some real dark-web stuff right there..  buying youtube dislikes!!!  OMG. That's like super evil black-hat haxxor territory.  Absolute criminal mastermind confirmed, no doubt.

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes (https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes)

With hacker powers like that, she must have had something to do with that paedophile pizza hut that killary ran. Probably the webmaster. I mean, I have no *proof* that she was part of that, beyond this video about a deleted kickstarter campaign, and a photo from her website that I saved before it was taken down, that maybe I look at a bit too often.... but hey, why not? Really, at this point, any lack of evidence we can find is just more evidence at how much of an expert internet data-deleter she is.

And on top of all this plain and visible harm she has caused to the world, she continues to refuse to go out of her way to call me and talk to me, so really she deserves anything I decide to dish out. And any effect this has on her life is really her fault because she should have just called me and given me her time and attention, like I deserve.

Quote
It's now open season on Bumpgirl.

Yeah.... Or maybe, instead of engaging in cyber bullying someone you actually know nothing at all about, from behind the comfortable anonymity of a user name not connected to you personally, you could just not?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Delta on July 04, 2018, 06:35:28 am
Jules, are you Cat Clark, or in any way related to her?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 04, 2018, 06:45:01 am
Jules, are you Cat Clark, or in any way related to her?

Just classic white-knighting.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 04, 2018, 09:16:26 am
Wow.. that's some real dark-web stuff right there..  buying youtube dislikes!!!  OMG. That's like super evil black-hat haxxor territory.  Absolute criminal mastermind confirmed, no doubt.

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes (https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes)

With hacker powers like that, she must have..

I'm not saying it's difficult to do but you have to know it even exists.

Yeah.... Or maybe, instead of engaging in cyber bullying someone you actually know nothing at all about, from behind the comfortable anonymity of a user name not connected to you personally, you could just not?

Who says "Fungus" isn't my real, legally registered, name?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: mikerj on July 04, 2018, 11:09:31 am
Any presumption that she was just an innocent child who didn't know what she was doing ends right there.

Anybody who knows how to pay for dislikes goes straight in the same bin as the Batteroo Brothers.

Wow.. that's some real dark-web stuff right there..  buying youtube dislikes!!!  OMG. That's like super evil black-hat haxxor territory.  Absolute criminal mastermind confirmed, no doubt.

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes (https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+dislikes)

With hacker powers like that, she must have had something to do with that paedophile pizza hut that killary ran. Probably the webmaster. I mean, I have no *proof* that she was part of that, beyond this video about a deleted kickstarter campaign, and a photo from her website that I saved before it was taken down, that maybe I look at a bit too often.... but hey, why not? Really, at this point, any lack of evidence we can find is just more evidence at how much of an expert internet data-deleter she is.

And on top of all this plain and visible harm she has caused to the world, she continues to refuse to go out of her way to call me and talk to me, so really she deserves anything I decide to dish out. And any effect this has on her life is really her fault because she should have just called me and given me her time and attention, like I deserve.

Quote
It's now open season on Bumpgirl.

Yeah.... Or maybe, instead of engaging in cyber bullying someone you actually know nothing at all about, from behind the comfortable anonymity of a user name not connected to you personally, you could just not?

I do enjoy a bit of faux outrage from a shiny white knight  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on July 04, 2018, 11:22:01 am
Who says "Fungus" isn't my real, legally registered, name?

If this thread says anything, it is that rigidly adhering to actual facts is optional.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on July 04, 2018, 03:58:32 pm
[... knightly knight-stuff going on here ...]

I do enjoy a bit of faux outrage from a shiny white knight  :-DD
Yeah, there's nothing quite like watching a white knight polishing his armor.  ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on July 04, 2018, 04:59:10 pm
Fun fact about YT internals, no idea if still accurate:

There is/was a per account limit on Likes/Dislikes (https://www.youtube.com/my_liked_videos (https://www.youtube.com/my_liked_videos)), afaik its set to 5000, anything above that is still tracked for the account owner(blue up/down vote displayed), but does not show up on clip statistics (up/down vote counter reverses after page reload).
It used to work in a way spare likes/dislikes got unlocked after one of older liked/disliked videos got deleted. Checked it a moment ago and it appears to act as a rolling list now, with oldest liked videos simply dropping out. This means people participating in those like/dislike farms either have to make new accounts every couple of days/weeks, or their votes will simply vanish automagically with time.

My best guesses as to why this limit exists:
-YT/Google Machine Learning recommendation system input format
-database indexing/size optimization
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on July 04, 2018, 05:13:04 pm
Cat clark doesn't exist. It's just a front for ex-soviet-block scammers milking money on the internet. There has been a recent spate of ransomware attacks from those same countries. They know there are hordes of gullible people on the net who are easily parted with their money.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: John B on July 04, 2018, 10:43:18 pm
I'm not sure if it's been addressed yet, but the issue is that how do you prove that Cat Clark is the one lodging the privacy complaint, or paying for the dislikes? Now don't get me wrong - her behaviour thus far shows more than a little mens rea, but one only needs to look at the near barf-worthy displays of white knighting in this thread to entertain the possibility that someone would be foolish enough to do these things on her behalf. I mean, look at some of the critics here, then imagine how bad the fans are.  :palm:

At least it is something to consider before regarding these series of events as a foregone conclusion.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 01:07:06 am
I'm not sure if it's been addressed yet, but the issue is that how do you prove that Cat Clark is the one lodging the privacy complaint

For the complaint to be legal, it must be the individual concerned. As the recipient of this complaint, I have to assume that it has been made legally and act upon that as such.

Quote
, or paying for the dislikes?

I never claimed it was her. I said I do not know who it is.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 01:09:44 am
Most have probably seen it, but for those that haven't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA5cMpHz3o4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA5cMpHz3o4)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on July 05, 2018, 02:10:46 am
I'm not sure if it's been addressed yet, but the issue is that how do you prove that Cat Clark is the one lodging the privacy complaint

For the complaint to be legal, it must be the individual concerned. As the recipient of this complaint, I have to assume that it has been made legally and act upon that as such.

Quote
, or paying for the dislikes?

I never claimed it was her. I said I do not know who it is.

Dave, after doing this blogging thing for so long surely you cannot be surprised by the subset of fans you have who would seek to display their tribal allegiances to you through a conveniently loose interpretation of what you say.

Or, if not that, then fans who lack the comprehension to distill the precise meaning of your words.

It is not that what you said was difficult to interpret but you could do more to reduce the misunderstanding.

The same thing is true for the white-knighting comment. I had to look it up myself. Regardless of whether it was accurate you clearly do have impressionable, easily led, fans who through a misplaced sense of loyalty readily take up the chant without fully thinking it through.

I think both you, and they, do a disservice to the other through a lack of caution.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: John B on July 05, 2018, 02:22:59 am
I'm not sure if it's been addressed yet, but the issue is that how do you prove that Cat Clark is the one lodging the privacy complaint

For the complaint to be legal, it must be the individual concerned. As the recipient of this complaint, I have to assume that it has been made legally and act upon that as such.


Fair enough. My question was going to be whether the privacy complaint must be made by the person involved, and what steps does youtube take to reasonably ascertain the identity of someone making a complaint.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on July 05, 2018, 02:28:14 am
Cat clark doesn't exist.

And obviously you are ready to prove it to us, dont you.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 05, 2018, 03:26:47 am
I'm not saying it's difficult to do but you have to know it even exists.

what, like every single eevblog follower already knew it existed?
WOW! WE ARE ALL LIKE, SO DARKWEB, DOOOOOD!
WATCH OUT EVIL SCOOBY-DOO VILLANS!
WE WILL FIGHT YOU AND WE ARE RIGHTEOUS!!!
AND YOU WOULD HAVE GOT AWAY WITH IT IF IT WEREN'T FOR US MEDDLING SUPER INTERNET KIDS!

Quote
Who says "Fungus" isn't my real, legally registered, name?

I don't care what your name is. But I know your user profile isn't attached to anything that's easily found, and I highly doubt employers or friends or family googling your name in future will find this thread and read what a glittering treasure you are.

I find the joy and eagerness you display in piling onto someone you don't even know, just following the lead of someone else, with no critical thought, to be very disturbing.  And I wonder what hurt you to make you like this, and I feel sad for you. And I wonder if rather than taking your issues out on strangers from behind the comfortable anonymity of a forum account that's not linked to you personally in any way at all, you might be better served by talking to a professional about your suffering, and work with them to make it better.

Anyway. Enough about you.

Lets back up and think logically for a few paragraphs here... all we have on this (probably) real stranger people here are happily trying to destroy, is these things.

1) they chose to be the public face of a kickstarter that was stupidly thought out. A kickstarter showing all the hallmarks of a lean startup approach to a solution that the people running it were *so* technically incompetent about, they didn't know where to even start to look for fundamental project killers before launch. (which is why the campaign was so hilarious and deserving of ridicule)

2) When questioned about tech details, the person answered, showing a complete lack of understanding of the issues involved. Just like you'd expect. But then the project started to change a bit. whatever final direction that change might have finally taken is now unknown, because pretty much immediately after this, they were attacked and the situation changed.

3) When attacked, and discovering  that the attack wasn't just on the startup idea, but also on their own junior professional reputation, they've done a couple of dumb things which are completely in line with their already obvious technical naivety. They have not launched sophisticated legal attacks or technical attacks (or even illegal attacks) on Dave or this website.  Like you'd expect from an actual real criminal with any resources behind them.

Anything else you can add to what we actually know?

Everything else here is plain speculation and hearsay (and maybe projection, I dunno)

This thread is ridiculous - with self righteous wannabe tech bros all gearing up for war against this complete nobody and their silly 2 bit attempt at being a lean startup product manager.

People are comparing them to actual fraudulent operations like that blood test company which burned how many billion $ of investor cash?, and relatively well funded stupidity like butt-a-roo that actually took and burned real people's money...

We even have someone further up in this muck heap justifying anything done to this person is fine, because apparently ICOs are out of control at the moment, and  therefore because "blockchain" was vomited into in the dirty laundry basket of stupid features the app idea had, this person is absolutely responsible for all the sucker "investors" currently pouring billions of dollars in borrowed money they can't afford into ICOs, which we all know will never be seen again.

All I'm asking, is that you take a step back and actually look at what you are doing.

1) Look at the actual damage caused in the world by this kickstarter project. (errr..... none? or negative damage, if paid dislikes can only help Daves engagement ranking)

2) Think about what this person's name is going to look like in the future when they need to look for a job one day.

3) Look at the absolute joy of a bunch of people are showing here - Enjoying being part of a big bad angry justified smackdown machine - totally getting off on how much pain they are causing to someone they don't know.  Who did nothing to them, and in fact did nothing of consequence to anybody.



PS, If you really feel the need to pile on with a bunch of people and destroy someone's life?
https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/comedian-charged-over-graffiti-at-eurydice-dixons-memorial/news-story/399fb93c29d8df77c3a0b7a3473fe5c8 (https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/comedian-charged-over-graffiti-at-eurydice-dixons-memorial/news-story/399fb93c29d8df77c3a0b7a3473fe5c8)
Have a go at this guy. Seriously - knock yourself out. Do your absolute worst - He was just charged (and admitted guilt so no grey area here) yesterday with defacing the memorial for a woman who was raped and murdered on her way home the last month. Just days after her rape and murder. At the site where her body was found and probably where it all happened. He spray painted cock and balls around her memorial that people had come from miles around to build.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 05, 2018, 03:35:04 am
Just classic white-knighting.

You know, the word choices people make to put down or discredit or attack people are very very illuminating.
They tell the world all sorts of things about the user of the words


Also, I think there's more than a hint of an echo in here.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 04:31:21 am
This thread is ridiculous - with self righteous wannabe tech bros all gearing up for war against this complete nobody and their silly 2 bit attempt at being a lean startup product manager.

You do realise the irony that your continued elaborate posts in this thread help to keep the thread at the top of the new posts list and encourage others to continue to respond, right?
Instead of the thread naturally dying away into a obscurity as it inevitably will, as I'm sure you'd love, you keep it going, well done.

Quote
PS, If you really feel the need to pile on with a bunch of people and destroy someone's life?
https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/comedian-charged-over-graffiti-at-eurydice-dixons-memorial/news-story/399fb93c29d8df77c3a0b7a3473fe5c8 (https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/comedian-charged-over-graffiti-at-eurydice-dixons-memorial/news-story/399fb93c29d8df77c3a0b7a3473fe5c8)
Have a go at this guy. Seriously - knock yourself out. Do your absolute worst - He was just charged (and admitted guilt so no grey area here) yesterday with defacing the memorial for a woman who was raped and murdered on her way home the last month. Just days after her rape and murder. At the site where her body was found and probably where it all happened. He spray painted cock and balls around her memorial that people had come from miles around to build.

You just got though preaching about how people here are conflating things, yet you come out with the biggest doozy of them all.
Give it up.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 04:36:40 am
Fair enough. My question was going to be whether the privacy complaint must be made by the person involved, and what steps does youtube take to reasonably ascertain the identity of someone making a complaint.

I don't know. But I have to assume it's legit, and a lot of stuff points toward it being legit.
You don't even have to go far beyond Occam's razor to see that.
In any case it doesn't matter, I *have* to treat it as legit and act accordingly.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: X on July 05, 2018, 04:53:34 am
Dave, has there been a recent cease and desist order or similar legal threat against this forum or site? I posted a link to an archived copy of a page (in response to a post by erkko (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/msg1646546/#msg1646546)) and I just noticed that my post as well as erkko's original links are now gone.

Where's Barbara Streisand when you need her?  8)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 05, 2018, 05:42:09 am
You do realise the irony that your continued elaborate posts in this thread help to keep the thread at the top of the new posts list and encourage others to continue to respond, right?
Instead of the thread naturally dying away into a obscurity as it inevitably will, as I'm sure you'd love, you keep it going, well done.

yeah, I'm done here.

All my points still stand, and you've explained yourself perfectly.

Quote
You just got though preaching about how people here are conflating things, yet you come out with the biggest doozy of them all.
Give it up.

I'm not conflating that guy or his activity with anything or anyone on here. That would be beyond ridiculous, even for this thread.
Actually it's the opposite - it's irrelevant to the discussion for any purpose but perspective.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 06:37:34 am
Dave, has there been a recent cease and desist order or similar legal threat against this forum or site?

No.
PM sent.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: alxpo on July 05, 2018, 09:07:26 am
Meanwhile, another online service successfully defended its right to publish negative statements of users.

https://www.yelpblog.com/2018/07/a-case-for-the-internet-hassell-v-bird (https://www.yelpblog.com/2018/07/a-case-for-the-internet-hassell-v-bird)

"With this decision, online publishers in California can be assured that they cannot be lawfully forced to remove third-party speech through enterprising abuses of the legal system" - it sounds promising.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 05, 2018, 12:31:19 pm
Quote
Who says "Fungus" isn't my real, legally registered, name?

I don't care what your name is.

Damn, I was ready to take your money.

I find the joy and eagerness you display in piling onto someone you don't even know, just following the lead of someone else, with no critical thought, to be very disturbing.  And I wonder what hurt you to make you like this, and I feel sad for you. And I wonder if rather than taking your issues out on strangers from behind the comfortable anonymity of a forum account that's not linked to you personally in any way at all, you might be better served by talking to a professional about your suffering, and work with them to make it better.

Thanks for caring.

Lets back up and think logically for a few paragraphs here... all we have on this (probably) real stranger people here are happily trying to destroy, is these things.

1) they chose to be the public face of a kickstarter that was stupidly thought out.

I don't think it was stupidity any more then uBeam is stupidity or Batteroo was stupidity.

What's your explanation for the paid dislikes? How does that fit in your head?

IIRC I only started eagerly piling onto the damsel after the paid dislikes appeared. I guess you missed that part (too busy polishing your armor?)

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 05, 2018, 01:13:06 pm
Supporters were only going to get stickers and a tshirt. That the app ("shell") was not going to work was also written there somewhere, so that much was clear, as clear as mud >:D => strictly speaking it wasn't a scam.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 05, 2018, 01:34:42 pm
Supporters were only going to get stickers and a tshirt. That the app was not going to work was also written there somewhere, so that much was clear, as clear as mud >:D => strictly speaking it wasn't a scam.

True, but why did they shut it down and try to disappear?

Instead of owning it and pointing to the t-shirts (which is what they should have done) they went all crazy and started buying dislikes, etc.

Try to see it for what it is: It went from fun to funny at 1,000,000 m/sec.

I don't believe in political correctness, you got me there.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 05, 2018, 01:37:02 pm
The Linkedin link x on her website x goes to a page for 'x', also a series producer from Sydney, Australia.
Doxing her is not nice anyway.

Who doxxed her? All that info was linked to from her own Kickstarter campaign.

Even Youtube have given Dave the "not guilty" verdict for that.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 05, 2018, 01:47:48 pm
True, but why did they shut it down and try to disappear?
A spoiled brat: Dave ruined her plan to pocket thirty grand selling stickers.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 02:50:43 pm
Blog article on the Dislikes
https://techstickles.wordpress.com/2018/07/04/the-rise-of-paid-likes-and-dislikes/
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 05, 2018, 02:55:58 pm
That the app ("shell") was not going to work was also written there somewhere

It was not written in the original campaign when it was released. It was then added as an update.
Only after the video came out did the campaign text change to read that, in the Risks section at that. And even then it likely wouldn't have been obvious to Joe Average what they actually meant.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 05, 2018, 03:47:53 pm
It was not written in the original campaign when it was released. It was then added as an update.
Only after the video came out did the campaign text change to read that, in the Risks section at that. And even then it likely wouldn't have been obvious to Joe Average what they actually meant.

I believe it was there:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery?lang=en#h:the-technology (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery?lang=en#h:the-technology)
Quote
The current funding will be used to have the shell of the app developed, ready for the technology to be integrated when and if it is available. The video and creative stills are a storyboard to give an idea of how the app and technology would work together once it is available and once it is integrated alongside BattBump

As clear as mud  >:D

Edit: Ignore, Dave is right, that wasn't there at the beginning: http://archive.is/JnjpB (http://archive.is/JnjpB)

Quote
The transfer of the battery between smart phones occurs via Near-Field Communication (NFC). This technology is currently available and the app utilises this technology

 |O
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ebastler on July 05, 2018, 03:59:07 pm
Who says "Fungus" isn't my real, legally registered, name?

Hmm, that might explain the tone of many of your posts.  :P

Here, let me give you a hug, man...
It's a mean old world...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: StillTrying on July 05, 2018, 04:04:41 pm
Even without the dislikes, I still think there's been plenty of oddities on this BB KSer.
http://archive.is/JnjpB (http://archive.is/JnjpB)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Kean on July 05, 2018, 04:14:23 pm
It was not written in the original campaign when it was released. It was then added as an update.
Only after the video came out did the campaign text change to read that, in the Risks section at that. And even then it likely wouldn't have been obvious to Joe Average what they actually meant.

I believe it was there:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery?lang=en#h:the-technology (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1749849235/battbump-an-app-to-share-and-receive-phone-battery?lang=en#h:the-technology)
Quote
The current funding will be used to have the shell of the app developed, ready for the technology to be integrated when and if it is available. The video and creative stills are a storyboard to give an idea of how the app and technology would work together once it is available and once it is integrated alongside BattBump

As clear as mud  >:D

That section labelled "The Technology" was added later after all the publicity, along with the one and only update.
When I backed it for $1 and left a comment warning potential backers it looked like this: http://archive.is/OLMJ5 (http://archive.is/OLMJ5)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 05, 2018, 05:54:24 pm
Just for posterity:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=469622;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on July 05, 2018, 06:07:04 pm
Cat clark doesn't exist.

And obviously you are ready to prove it to us, dont you.

Can you prove otherwise?

(By the way, your sentence doesn't make any sense)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 06, 2018, 05:49:38 am
True, but why did they shut it down and try to disappear?
A spoiled brat: Dave ruined her plan to pocket thirty grand selling stickers.

Possibly.  However, another alternative is that she was ignorant of the details, embarrassed when the truth came to light and naive to think she could remove the evidence.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 06, 2018, 05:57:03 am
The Linkedin link x on her website x goes to a page for 'x', also a series producer from Sydney, Australia.
Doxing her is not nice anyway.

Who doxxed her? All that info was linked to from her own Kickstarter campaign.

Even Youtube have given Dave the "not guilty" verdict for that.

Precisely.  How can anyone be accused of doxing someone by including material they, themselves published in direct relation to, and linked with, the campaign?


People should understand exactly what the accusation is that they are contemplating before they start expressing them.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: justanothercanuck on July 06, 2018, 07:22:53 am
I just wanted to throw this out there...  after watching blab 48, youtube recommended I watch a handful of videos of Russian origin.  When I told youtube I wasn't interested it said they were explicitly recommended to me for watching blab 48. 

Sadly I didn't think to take a screenshot of it.  I really should have, because I don't understand the language, so it would make no sense for them to recommend I watch those videos.  Something tells me youtube isn't just being used as a downvote-spamming tool.  :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 06, 2018, 07:51:17 am
I just wanted to throw this out there...  after watching blab 48, youtube recommended I watch a handful of videos of Russian origin.  When I told youtube I wasn't interested it said they were explicitly recommended to me for watching blab 48. 

Sadly I didn't think to take a screenshot of it.  I really should have, because I don't understand the language, so it would make no sense for them to recommend I watch those videos.  Something tells me youtube isn't just being used as a downvote-spamming tool.  :-//

A lot of Russians interact with a video you just watched, Youtube recommends other videos that they were watching (or downvoting) at the time. Nothing mysterious there, just a not-very-smart algorithm.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: jonovid on July 06, 2018, 08:10:38 am
the privacy complaint is key ...to this.  hell has no fury, like a woman scorn'd . my guess is the bump kickstarter was by a feminist.
with A lack of scientific rigor! your a man and so am I.  go figure. (research new age feminist revolution & war on masculinity ) as to why this type of Infiltration is happening to forums like this! 
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 06, 2018, 08:41:24 am
Possibly.  However, another alternative is that she was ignorant of the details, embarrassed when the truth came to light and naive to think she could remove the evidence.

She created a scam to take people's money, the Internet called her on it.

What should we do? Keep quiet to avoid hurting her feelings?

Some people here seem to think so.   :palm:

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: mikerj on July 06, 2018, 11:59:39 am
1) they chose to be the public face of a kickstarter that was stupidly thought out. A kickstarter showing all the hallmarks of a lean startup approach to a solution that the people running it were *so* technically incompetent about, they didn't know where to even start to look for fundamental project killers before launch. (which is why the campaign was so hilarious and deserving of ridicule)

2) When questioned about tech details, the person answered, showing a complete lack of understanding of the issues involved. Just like you'd expect. But then the project started to change a bit. whatever final direction that change might have finally taken is now unknown, because pretty much immediately after this, they were attacked and the situation changed.

3) When attacked, and discovering  that the attack wasn't just on the startup idea, but also on their own junior professional reputation, they've done a couple of dumb things which are completely in line with their already obvious technical naivety. They have not launched sophisticated legal attacks or technical attacks (or even illegal attacks) on Dave or this website.  Like you'd expect from an actual real criminal with any resources behind them.

I'd like to understand why you believe this Kickstarter was created purely by stupidity rather than an attempt to part people with their money, as so many of these schemes have done in the past?

Would you be leaping to the perpetrators defence if it wasn't a woman?  Somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: cprobertson1 on July 06, 2018, 01:30:24 pm
1) they chose to be the public face of a kickstarter that was stupidly thought out. A kickstarter showing all the hallmarks of a lean startup approach to a solution that the people running it were *so* technically incompetent about, they didn't know where to even start to look for fundamental project killers before launch. (which is why the campaign was so hilarious and deserving of ridicule)

2) When questioned about tech details, the person answered, showing a complete lack of understanding of the issues involved. Just like you'd expect. But then the project started to change a bit. whatever final direction that change might have finally taken is now unknown, because pretty much immediately after this, they were attacked and the situation changed.

3) When attacked, and discovering  that the attack wasn't just on the startup idea, but also on their own junior professional reputation, they've done a couple of dumb things which are completely in line with their already obvious technical naivety. They have not launched sophisticated legal attacks or technical attacks (or even illegal attacks) on Dave or this website.  Like you'd expect from an actual real criminal with any resources behind them.

I'd like to understand why you believe this Kickstarter was created purely by stupidity rather than an attempt to part people with their money, as so many of these schemes have done in the past?

Would you be leaping to the perpetrators defence if it wasn't a woman?  Somehow I doubt it.

That's an interesting one (not the gender thing which I an staying well and truly clear from ;)): but rather, whether malice can or cannot be inferred.

The principle is known as "Hanlon's Razor", to wit:
Quote
Never assume malice when ignorance/stupidity/greed will suffice.

There is a corollary to this as well:
Quote
Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice.
Never assume stupidity when ignorance will suffice.
Never assume ignorance when forgivable error will suffice.
Never assume error when information you hadn't adequately accounted for will suffice.

Either way, it is effectively the sociological equivalent of occam's razor - it requires fewer assumptions to assume that they are an idiot rather than a scammer; but of course, these aren't mutually exclusive concepts - which is why there are several corolories to the Razor!

There is also the possibility that the face-entity, Clark, represent one level (forgivable error > ignorance > stupidity) and a second entity convinced her it was a good idea - she may even have been headhunting at the time (does it sound like an idea a presenter/producer could have came up with?) - in which case the malicious party represents a second (but not necessarily controlling) level.

At this point, terse application of Occam's Razor suggests that this involves a lot of assumptions; which suggests that ignorance/stupidity may be the more likely scenario than malice.

That said, I doubt certain parties opining on the matter have really carried this through to its logical conclusion and are just white knighting, as you pointed out (in other words, irrationally defending their innocence rather than rationally suggesting their innocence; either way, I don't have enough info to opine :P)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on July 06, 2018, 02:24:45 pm
the privacy complaint is key ...to this.  hell has no fury, like a woman scorn'd . my guess is the bump kickstarter was by a feminist.
with A lack of scientific rigor! your a man and so am I.  go figure. (research new age feminist revolution & war on masculinity ) as to why this type of Infiltration is happening to forums like this!
Of course it was just a matter of time until someone had to screech "feminism!" without a reason. Man, your life must suck.  :'(
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: elgonzo on July 06, 2018, 02:38:51 pm
The principle is known as "Hanlon's Razor", to wit:
Quote
Never assume malice when ignorance/stupidity/greed will suffice.
Judge: Your motivation for robbing the plaintiff was greed?
Defendant: Yes, your honor. I am just a greedy person.
Judge: But didn't you know that this was an unlawful action?
Defendant: Your honor, i don't know. I am ignorant about the laws and the rules of society.
Judge: Alright. I declare herewith the defendant has to return the stolen goods and - as i do not see malice in his actions - is acquitted of all other charges.


I don't know where you did get that weird version of Hanlon's Razor (source?), but greed and (deliberate) ignorance quite often fuel malice.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: cprobertson1 on July 06, 2018, 03:28:36 pm
The principle is known as "Hanlon's Razor", to wit:
Quote
Never assume malice when ignorance/stupidity/greed will suffice.
Judge: Your motivation for robbing the plaintiff was greed?
Defendant: Yes, your honor. I am just a greedy person.
Judge: But didn't you know that this was an unlawful action?
Defendant: Your honor, i don't know. I am ignorant about the laws and the rules of society.
Judge: Alright. I declare herewith the defendant has to return the stolen goods and - as i do not see malice in his actions - is acquitted of all other charges.


I don't know where you did get that weird version of Hanlon's Razor (source?), but greed and (deliberate) ignorance quite often fuel malice.

Lol, whoops - "greed" shouldn't be on there and I was conflating "incompetence" with "ignorance"

I should have said "Never attribute to malice what could equally be explained by stupidity/incompetence"

The corollary was cribbed from a commenter on a lesswrong article (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/GG2rtBReAm6o3mrtn/defecting-by-accident-a-flaw-common-to-analytical-people#uJYobM8MLWLpM3cAT).

And that's why one shouldn't post in a hurry :P
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: chriva on July 06, 2018, 06:08:55 pm
What can be said? I'm sitting here with a smug face thinking -"She'll not try that again"  :-DD

Sure. People are a tad too mean but setting harsh examples like this will discourage future a-holes...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 06, 2018, 06:44:42 pm
I'd like to understand why you believe this Kickstarter was created purely by stupidity rather than an attempt to part people with their money, as so many of these schemes have done in the past?

That's an interesting one (not the gender thing which I an staying well and truly clear from ;)): but rather, whether malice can or cannot be inferred.

The original campaign said (and I quote): "This tech is currently available and the app utilizes this technology".

Here's another 'before' (and after) capture of the Kickstarter campaign:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=470225;image)

Who would read that and not think they've already done some NFC charging, that the tech works?

Who could write that accidentally if they weren't trying to mislead?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on July 06, 2018, 07:18:53 pm
Ignorance or Malice ... it doesn't matter when the outcome is harmful. The neglect of consideration is a form of malice, and should be punished as such (provided that the faculties are there, and proving that is the prickly part.)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: jonovid on July 06, 2018, 09:38:18 pm
lack of scientific rigor! IMO  I stand by my comment  :popcorn:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 06, 2018, 11:46:58 pm
my guess is the bump kickstarter was by a feminist.
with A lack of scientific rigor! your a man and so am I.  go figure. (research new age feminist revolution & war on masculinity ) as to why this type of Infiltration is happening to forums like this!

Hey, I thought there was a rule, No politics in the forum?

Unfortunately I see this kind of deranged toxic dribble popping up here a LOT, and I never see it challenged. Or the no politics rule brought up.

So are we really non-political here, or are we political but complete snowflakes with a cultivated victim narrative (despite modern white western men being literally the most pampered and pandered to demographic in the history of humanity?) who can't actually stand up to any challenges against their ridiculous youtube conspiracy theory opinions?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: julianhigginson on July 07, 2018, 12:10:45 am

I'd like to understand why you believe this Kickstarter was created purely by stupidity rather than an attempt to part people with their money, as so many of these schemes have done in the past?

Would you be leaping to the perpetrators defence if it wasn't a woman?  Somehow I doubt it.

Because the stupidity of their response to the attack they suffered is consistent with the kind of technical naievity that was shown in the video.

And the video and campaign were entirely consistent with standard lean startup approach.

Of course they wanted to make money. That's what anyone running a Kickstarter does. But wet know very little more about what their intent actually was because the attack on the person behind it caused the whole campaign to be pulled before they actually did anything..

And I'd like to state that I'm not the one bringing up anyone's gender here. It's a bunch of snowflake right wing nobodies hiding behind fake account names that brought the issue of gender into this by repeatedly echoing "white knight" and loudly proclaiming that the only reason anyone would think their awful behaviour was awful must be because the target is a woman.

Seriously. Those facts you quoted from me are the only 3 things we know about this whole mess. The rest is a bunch of cowards going on a rampage against somebody who actually had caused no harm in the world. (Unlike batteroo and that blood test fraud and all the other things you are breathlessly conflating with this campaign)

Repeated insistence that I'm only here because of this targets gender points far more at the real reasons behind the people claiming it of me, than it does my reasons.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on July 07, 2018, 02:33:14 am
Possibly.  However, another alternative is that she was ignorant of the details, embarrassed when the truth came to light and naive to think she could remove the evidence.

She created a scam to take people's money, the Internet called her on it.

What should we do? Keep quiet to avoid hurting her feelings?

Some people here seem to think so.   :palm:

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying anyone should back off from calling her out - far from it.

What I am saying is that I get the feeling she was used as a "front man".  While her naivety and ignorance allowed her to get sucked in, the stark realisation of the facts caused her great embarrassment, resulting in the Olympic back-pedalling effort.

I have no real evidence for this - but I cannot shake the feeling.


Just to make my attitude quite clear - whether through naive ignorance or nefarious intent - all such cases need to be brought under close scrutiny and "outed".
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: John B on July 07, 2018, 03:00:20 am
"Snowflake right wing nobody who hides behind a fake account name" shall henceforth be known as the most novel description of Wilfred in the forum's history.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: westfw on July 07, 2018, 03:15:32 am
Quote
She created a scam to take people's money, the Internet called her on it.
What should we do? Keep quiet to avoid hurting her feelings?
Move on to the next scam.  It's not like there's any shortage.
I mean.  You did it!  You exposed the scam, shut down the kickstarter, and chased the scammer off the Internet!  Congratulations!
If she reappears with another scam, you can do it again.
But it's DONE ALREADY.  Continued gloating, speculation, and so on as to motivations, causes, innate intelligence, political views, and so on, of the scammer(s) are just ... making us look bad.
Sheesh.  Federico Musto faked an MIT engineering degree and came pretty close to destroying Arduino, and got fewer personal comments...



Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 07, 2018, 03:25:19 am
And I'd like to state that I'm not the one bringing up anyone's gender here.

Rubbish.
Wilfred started the whole gender thing and you piled on in the very next post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever)!/msg1643669/#msg1643669

Everyone stop talking about gender, it has nothing to do with this.
And stop attacking each other.
I'm not going to lock one of my own linked forum threads, so my only option is to start deleting posts if all this silliness continues.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: X on July 07, 2018, 04:34:16 am
Now that we've finished talking about gender, christmas-grade meteorology, and bits of an aeroplane, I have an idea for a Battcoin miner made out of huge SLA batteries connected to a 5V regulator connected to a smartphone that is on for the sole purpose of giving people battery usage.  >:D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: erkko on July 07, 2018, 07:41:18 am
And I'd like to state that I'm not the one bringing up anyone's gender here.

Rubbish.
Wilfred started the whole gender thing and you piled on in the very next post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever)!/msg1643669/#msg1643669

Everyone stop talking about gender, it has nothing to do with this.
And stop attacking each other.
I'm not going to lock one of my own linked forum threads, so my only option is to start deleting posts if all this silliness continues.


if possible, perhaps delete and censor them publicly.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wilfred on July 07, 2018, 01:08:24 pm

Rubbish.
Wilfred started the whole gender thing and you piled on in the very next post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever)!/msg1643669/#msg1643669


MOD: Off-topic gender politics removed.

I don't know why the observation was so objectionable unless it was feared that the response would be more likely to confirm the point.

So I didn't make the post to antagonise you Dave and I certainly didn't make  it to fan the flames. I made it to alert those forum members who may have got caught up in the moment to reflect on their post and be moderate lest they say something they might later prefer to have said differently. Just as you sometimes claim these debunking and scam videos are justified if they can save even one person from falling victim, I too make my points in the hope someone will pause to reflect.

I reject that a single post I made in this thread was done with any intention to antagonise you Dave. Or any post I have ever made. I am certainly aware you are sensitive to criticisms I make, but that is not the same as making them with the intent to antagonise you. I humbly think I make well considered points as directly as I can. Whether they are well made is still open but I do try to cut through to the heart of the matter that I think is important. I don't believe I engage in personal attacks or become engaged in slanging matches. If what I say was just plain wrong then they should just fall to one side as the ravings of a lunatic.

Dave I can assure you that if I retained some interest in helping you avoid dragging yourself and the EEVblog into the shit before this thread, I think you have drifted well beyond salvation now. I cannot believe you can look back on this bit of fun, as you've told me these debunking threads are, with any pride at all. What you need to look at is not the number of people who come out and agree with me, it is the number of people who openly disagree with me.

These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.

It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: grythumn on July 07, 2018, 03:33:19 pm
It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.

I don't know why you're making it about gender; this is about, at best, a grossly irresponsible fundraiser attempt, at worst willful fraud. Exposing such is unquestionably a good thing.

-R C
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 07, 2018, 05:17:45 pm
I don't know why you're making it about gender; this is about, at best, a grossly irresponsible fundraiser attempt, at worst willful fraud.

You're being far too generous. Everything about the wording of the original Kickstarter implied they already had the charging working, that it only needed the app to be written and to be fully tested on "new and flagship models".

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever!/?action=dlattach;attach=471014;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: StillTrying on July 07, 2018, 06:19:43 pm
It's always best to predict that software development will go smoothly, because it always does. Especially when you're claiming to transfer a few Watts of battery power through a 3mW communications chip which isn't even connected to the battery. What could possibly go wrong, well actually now we know!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: X on July 07, 2018, 10:49:34 pm
It was topical in the News in Australia at the time with regards to "Sarah Hanson-Young and David Leyonhjelm" and the treatment of women in politics and the media. SBS TV presenter for the World Cup Lucy Zelic had also been in the news facing criticism ostensibly about the way she attempted to correctly pronounce foreign players names. Les Murrey a popular former football presenter did the same thing but did not get the vitriolic criticism for it. It is the purview of SBS to embrace multiculturalism and Lucy Zelic stated that attempting to pronounce names properly was a way of displaying respect.

So in view of the topicality of women receiving unnecessarily harsh criticism possibly for reasons of gender, I was drawn to the observation that many of these threads bore the surprising link in common. I don't think they were started for that reason but it is undeniable that some posts do take gender into account. Not just in this thread but in the others too. There is no reason to think the EEVblog forum draws only from a pool of saintly, noble people. I'm proof of that.
Oh yes I totally agree, all of this is totally relevant to this thread. Sarah Hanson-Young is one of the most well respected electrical engineers in the world. Did you know David Leyonhjelm invented the space probe? Lucy Zelic was the first astronaut to test it out too, and she was smart enough to carry a couple of Battcoins in case she got mugged by aliens.
I remember this disagreement between Sarah Hanson-Young and David Leyonhjelm in the news; it was about whether to use pine or mahogany for the table on which the first BattBump experiment was to be tested on, and boy was it a tough fight (spoiler alert: they went with MDF from Bunnings).

These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.
Then don't watch them.

It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.
I'm glad Dave makes these videos, the more popular they are, the more they become somewhat of a public service announcement.

It's always best to predict that software development will go smoothly, because it always does. Especially when you're claiming to transfer a few Watts of battery power through a 3mW communications chip which isn't even connected to the battery. What could possibly go wrong, well actually now we know!
Just chuck in a relay and she'll be right.  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 07, 2018, 11:10:18 pm
Has anybody told our heroine that the BattBump app will work if you just take out the "bump" part and use a $2 piece of wire instead?

According to Kickstarter: She needs money to develop an app to connect people so they can share electrons and gain blockchains as rewards.

Is she aware that all of that can still go ahead, exactly as planned.  :popcorn:

(I know it's been mentioned here, has anybody told her about it?)

Maybe Dave could make a short video to let her know - we know she watches Dave's videos.

Her dream can still be realized, we just can't "bump" (yet!)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 08, 2018, 12:56:52 am
Has anybody told our heroine that the BattBump app will work if you just take out the "bump" part and use a $2 piece of wire instead?

According to Kickstarter: She needs money to develop an app to connect people so they can share electrons and gain blockchains as rewards.

Is she aware that all of that can still go ahead, exactly as planned.  :popcorn:

(I know it's been mentioned here, has anybody told her about it?)

Maybe Dave could make a short video to let her know - we know she watches Dave's videos.

Her dream can still be realized, we just can't "bump" (yet!)

Yes, but all of that required effort and work on her part, rather than just getting money for 30 minutes work on a crappy app.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 08, 2018, 03:55:24 am
Now that we've finished talking about gender, christmas-grade meteorology, and bits of an aeroplane, I have an idea for a Battcoin miner made out of huge SLA batteries connected to a 5V regulator connected to a smartphone that is on for the sole purpose of giving people battery usage.  >:D
SLA is not that cheap - it's possible to get lithium for cheaper. Conventional deep cycle is still cheaper (initially), but isn't exactly good for carrying around. I think the best way to go about it would be to start with a portable USB charger design and add a little Bluetooth chip to enable it to mine Battcoins.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 08, 2018, 04:44:51 am
I reject that a single post I made in this thread was done with any intention to antagonise you Dave. Or any post I have ever made. I am certainly aware you are sensitive to criticisms I make, but that is not the same as making them with the intent to antagonise you.

Bullshit.
You have been deliberately antagonising me at every available opportunity for years. I have warned you both publicly and privately before, and you even apologised for it once and said you wouldn't do it again.

Quote
These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.

Do me and everyone else a favor and don't watch them or comments on them any more. You've had you say, I don't want to hear it any more.

Quote
I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.

I am proud of my debunking videos.
The public forum is the public forum.
Now will you just please bugger off.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bud on July 08, 2018, 04:55:24 am
You have been deliberately antagonising me at every available opportunity for years.

I must say I noticed that too.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: X on July 08, 2018, 05:21:30 am
SLA is not that cheap - it's possible to get lithium for cheaper. Conventional deep cycle is still cheaper (initially), but isn't exactly good for carrying around.
Probably drifting slightly off-topic (though we're actually talking batteries here so it's all good), but assuming this statement isn't a joke, what lithium chemistry is cheaper than SLA for the same capacity?
LiFePO4 comes in mind here, and it's still several times more expensive for the same capacity. I have noticed that they're a lot lighter though and have a flatter discharge curve which suddenly drops off as the used capacity goes close to 100%.
LiFePO4 would be good for a UPS as most of the capacity can be used, and would probably save the precious shelf from bending like a banana since the battery bank wouldn't weigh 50kg.

I think the best way to go about it would be to start with a portable USB charger design and add a little Bluetooth chip to enable it to mine Battcoins.
Not sure if Bluetooth would be the answer since there doesn't seem to be any mention of it being used for BattBump in the first place. Perhaps it would be best to use a custom ASIC miner connected to a huge bank of smartphones with magic BattBump app technology, or some clever software on a micro with gargantuan induction coils.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ebastler on July 08, 2018, 06:28:17 am
Has anybody told our heroine that the BattBump app will work if you just take out the "bump" part and use a $2 piece of wire instead?

Nah, that would be totally uncool. 8)
Triggers memories of car drivers who managed to run down their batteries, and now need someone with jumper cables to help them out. Which, actually, is exactly the situation those phone users are in...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Bratster on July 08, 2018, 06:42:28 am
SLA is not that cheap - it's possible to get lithium for cheaper. Conventional deep cycle is still cheaper (initially), but isn't exactly good for carrying around.
Probably drifting slightly off-topic (though we're actually talking batteries here so it's all good), but assuming this statement isn't a joke, what lithium chemistry is cheaper than SLA for the same capacity?
LiFePO4 comes in mind here, and it's still several times more expensive for the same capacity. I have noticed that they're a lot lighter though and have a flatter discharge curve which suddenly drops off as the used capacity goes close to 100%.
LiFePO4 would be good for a UPS as most of the capacity can be used, and would probably save the precious shelf from bending like a banana since the battery bank wouldn't weigh 50kg.

I think the best way to go about it would be to start with a portable USB charger design and add a little Bluetooth chip to enable it to mine Battcoins.
Not sure if Bluetooth would be the answer since there doesn't seem to be any mention of it being used for BattBump in the first place. Perhaps it would be best to use a custom ASIC miner connected to a huge bank of smartphones with magic BattBump app technology, or some clever software on a micro with gargantuan induction coils.
Looking at just the initial upfront cost, I don't think anything is cheaper than your basic lead acid battery.

However as soon as you take into account lifetime and depth of discharge lithium becomes cheaper.

Or at least LiFePO4, that's the only one that I have looked into a little bit.

Sent from my Fi Moto x4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 08, 2018, 07:20:43 am
Here's a cool idea for a KS #2 for Miss Cat: It just so happens that a cell phone's radio emits much moar powerrrr than NFC.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Halcyon on July 08, 2018, 08:35:09 am
These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.

It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.

I completely disagree wilfred. I think Dave's debunking videos are brilliant. Although they shine light on the charlatans who try to make money off gullible individuals, that's not the primary goal. Dave's videos are not just about calling out bullshit for what it is, it's about EDUCATION. If by watching one of the EEVblog debunking videos, someone actually learns something even if it's just to think critically, then that's a win for society. Even for those who don't buy into the bullshit, it's a great lesson in fundamental electronics and physics.

I know Dave is proud of where the EEVblog is today. He started in his garage and in a few short years has made it what it is. He's an industry and household name.

At the end of the day wilfred, you've made your point loud and clear, but if you don't like the content, simply don't watch it.

And Dave, keep doing what you love. Fuck the haters, those individuals are a total waste of your time.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: westfw on July 08, 2018, 10:05:44 am
So, TECHNICALLY speaking: how difficult would it be to make the wireless charging technology present in many modern phones bi-directional?There are similar coils in both charger and phone, right?(yeah, it'd take a lot more than a 'bump', and there's always "a cable would work better...")
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: joeqsmith on July 08, 2018, 10:47:03 am
Dave I can assure you that if I retained some interest in helping you avoid dragging yourself and the EEVblog into the shit before this thread, I think you have drifted well beyond salvation now. I cannot believe you can look back on this bit of fun, as you've told me these debunking threads are, with any pride at all. What you need to look at is not the number of people who come out and agree with me, it is the number of people who openly disagree with me.

These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.

It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.

I assume you feel it's a waste of my time to watch them as well but I find it a bit odd you feel the need to try and control it by posting such dribble.   Then again, it does seem to be a pattern with you.  What is is that you feel you bring to this site?   

Personally I enjoy the debunk videos for the most part, including this one.  I find them rather entertaining.  This is really the reason I started watching Dave's videos in the first place.   I plan to continue to watch and support them regardless.     
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: StillTrying on July 08, 2018, 11:03:55 am
So, TECHNICALLY speaking: how difficult would it be to make the wireless charging technology present in many modern phones bi-directional?There are similar coils in both charger and phone, right?

I think the efficiency of a battery to battery charge would always be a very big problem, you'd be better off just swapping the SIMs, ...or something.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 08, 2018, 12:31:25 pm
Probably drifting slightly off-topic (though we're actually talking batteries here so it's all good), but assuming this statement isn't a joke, what lithium chemistry is cheaper than SLA for the same capacity?
LiFePO4 comes in mind here, and it's still several times more expensive for the same capacity. I have noticed that they're a lot lighter though and have a flatter discharge curve which suddenly drops off as the used capacity goes close to 100%.
LiFePO4 would be good for a UPS as most of the capacity can be used, and would probably save the precious shelf from bending like a banana since the battery bank wouldn't weigh 50kg.
I have a LiFePO4 pack that is almost as cheap as conventional deep cycle lead acid. The key to note is that drop in modules that already have a BMS are quite expensive, but the cells are cheap as are BMS boards.

Nissan Leaf battery modules are also surprisingly competitive compared to SLA. The oddball chemistry makes it hard to find a BMS module for them, however.
Quote
Not sure if Bluetooth would be the answer since there doesn't seem to be any mention of it being used for BattBump in the first place. Perhaps it would be best to use a custom ASIC miner connected to a huge bank of smartphones with magic BattBump app technology, or some clever software on a micro with gargantuan induction coils.
I was thinking of the wired version that actually works well with existing technology. Bluetooth would make the most sense since basically all smartphones have it (unlike NFC) and avoids the issue with not all smartphones supporting data over USB when in fast charge mode.
Looking at just the initial upfront cost, I don't think anything is cheaper than your basic lead acid battery.

However as soon as you take into account lifetime and depth of discharge lithium becomes cheaper.

Or at least LiFePO4, that's the only one that I have looked into a little bit.
Note the difference between SLA and conventional lead acid. The former is a lot more expensive. The latter is indeed as cheap as batteries get (at least initially), but is not very well suited for carrying around.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on July 08, 2018, 01:15:27 pm
So, TECHNICALLY speaking: how difficult would it be to make the wireless charging technology present in many modern phones bi-directional?There are similar coils in both charger and phone, right?(yeah, it'd take a lot more than a 'bump', and there's always "a cable would work better...")

Not difficult to do...*

...but difficult to explain to people why their charge went down 20% but the other person's charge only went up 2%.


Edit: I mean it would require a small hardware mod, obviously.  ;D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: X on July 08, 2018, 02:23:34 pm
I have a LiFePO4 pack that is almost as cheap as conventional deep cycle lead acid. The key to note is that drop in modules that already have a BMS are quite expensive, but the cells are cheap as are BMS boards.

Nissan Leaf battery modules are also surprisingly competitive compared to SLA. The oddball chemistry makes it hard to find a BMS module for them, however.
Surely a micro, a couple of power MOSFETs, a few NTC/PTC thermistors (or other temp sensors), and a PCB (including manufacturing costs) can't be significantly more expensive than the pack itself? Perhaps it's all in the R&D?

I was thinking of the wired version that actually works well with existing technology. Bluetooth would make the most sense since basically all smartphones have it (unlike NFC) and avoids the issue with not all smartphones supporting data over USB when in fast charge mode.
Charging something over Bluetooth... there's something worthy of an Indiegogo campaign! Next campaign: "Don't you hate it when the microwave at work is busted or too dirty? Well with our new HeatBump app, you will be able to fry a burrito with the built-in WiFi chipset on your smartphone. But we need your help for developing this vital technology and bring it to the masses. Our target is $100,000. Challenges: finding a loophole in the inverse square law."  8)

Looking at just the initial upfront cost, I don't think anything is cheaper than your basic lead acid battery.

However as soon as you take into account lifetime and depth of discharge lithium becomes cheaper.

Or at least LiFePO4, that's the only one that I have looked into a little bit.
Note the difference between SLA and conventional lead acid. The former is a lot more expensive. The latter is indeed as cheap as batteries get (at least initially), but is not very well suited for carrying around.
It also tends to depend on the separator or electrolyte retention method used. For example, AGM will be more expensive than gel-cell, but AGM has better electrical characteristics (higher depth of discharge, lower loss over time, etc). A lot of alarms I've seen (including modular commercial installs) like to use a cheap 12V 7Ah gel-cell type. People get these replaced them once or twice every 2-3 years as a preventative measure anyway, so why try harder.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 08, 2018, 02:43:38 pm
Surely a micro, a couple of power MOSFETs, a few NTC/PTC thermistors (or other temp sensors), and a PCB (including manufacturing costs) can't be significantly more expensive than the pack itself? Perhaps it's all in the R&D?
More like because the drop in modules are mostly used in commercial environments where cost is less of an issue. For example, construction companies will pay a big premium for batteries that weigh less.
Quote
Charging something over Bluetooth... there's something worthy of an Indiegogo campaign! Next campaign: "Don't you hate it when the microwave at work is busted or too dirty? Well with our new HeatBump app, you will be able to fry a burrito with the built-in WiFi chipset on your smartphone. But we need your help for developing this vital technology and bring it to the masses. Our target is $100,000. Challenges: finding a loophole in the inverse square law."  8)
USB for power and Bluetooth for communication. Back when I worked at Intel, the gym had some stationary bicycles that can charge devices plugged into the USB port, but the optional app to save the data connects over Bluetooth. The problem it solves is working properly with phones that cannot fast charge and communicate over USB at the same time, which is a very common problem.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on July 08, 2018, 03:38:04 pm
So, TECHNICALLY speaking: how difficult would it be to make the wireless charging technology present in many modern phones bi-directional?

Without changing the actual phone design, impossible. i.e. it's not possible with any current phone that I am aware of.
If using Qi then the the phone would likely have to be thicker to accommodate the magnetics, or be very inefficient, take your pick.
NFC is harder and less efficient, and Sony own the patent it seems. Maybe a chipset exists for this?

In any case it's a stupid idea. No one is going to want to put two phones back to back to charge them at some piss-poor charging rate.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 08, 2018, 03:45:52 pm
In any case it's a stupid idea. No one is going to want to put two phones back to back to charge them at some piss-poor charging rate.
...and with great losses: only 60..70% efficiency.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Howardlong on July 08, 2018, 03:56:57 pm
USB for power and Bluetooth for communication. Back when I worked at Intel, the gym had some stationary bicycles that can charge devices plugged into the USB port, but the optional app to save the data connects over Bluetooth. The problem it solves is working properly with phones that cannot fast charge and communicate over USB at the same time, which is a very common problem.

Is that not what USB Power Delivery is all about? By design, PD 1.0, which worked over USB A and B, supported signalling over Vbus to allow charging and USB communications. That never really took off, but PD 2.0 over USB C has.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 08, 2018, 06:54:57 pm
Is that not what USB Power Delivery is all about? By design, PD 1.0, which worked over USB A and B, supported signalling over Vbus to allow charging and USB communications. That never really took off, but PD 2.0 over USB C has.
That was 6 years ago, long before USB-C. The bicycles themselves were most certainly not brand new at the time, and in fact at least the design predates the iPad because the Apple charge slot (separate from the USB socket) will accept an iPhone but not an iPad. I suspect they use supercapacitors because it only takes a few seconds of pedaling for the USB to turn on.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: tautech on July 28, 2018, 06:42:20 am

Rubbish.
Wilfred started the whole gender thing and you piled on in the very next post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1099-battbump-dumbest-kickstarter-ever)!/msg1643669/#msg1643669


MOD: Off-topic gender politics removed.

I don't know why the observation was so objectionable unless it was feared that the response would be more likely to confirm the point.

So I didn't make the post to antagonise you Dave and I certainly didn't make  it to fan the flames. I made it to alert those forum members who may have got caught up in the moment to reflect on their post and be moderate lest they say something they might later prefer to have said differently. Just as you sometimes claim these debunking and scam videos are justified if they can save even one person from falling victim, I too make my points in the hope someone will pause to reflect.

I reject that a single post I made in this thread was done with any intention to antagonise you Dave. Or any post I have ever made. I am certainly aware you are sensitive to criticisms I make, but that is not the same as making them with the intent to antagonise you. I humbly think I make well considered points as directly as I can. Whether they are well made is still open but I do try to cut through to the heart of the matter that I think is important. I don't believe I engage in personal attacks or become engaged in slanging matches. If what I say was just plain wrong then they should just fall to one side as the ravings of a lunatic.

Dave I can assure you that if I retained some interest in helping you avoid dragging yourself and the EEVblog into the shit before this thread, I think you have drifted well beyond salvation now. I cannot believe you can look back on this bit of fun, as you've told me these debunking threads are, with any pride at all. What you need to look at is not the number of people who come out and agree with me, it is the number of people who openly disagree with me.

These videos are a total waste of your time and this one more than most was just nauseating to watch unfold.

It is not what I say about this video that you should find antagonising it is your lack of good judgement in making it in the first place. I challenge you to tell me you're proud of it and this forum discussion thread. I can assure those reading this that will not happen.
wilfred, it hasn't gone unnoticed by a few of us that you're sanitizing your post history.

We'd hope you'll continue to stick around and still offer a contribution to this forum.
So say I and I know there are others.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on April 18, 2019, 05:57:20 am
reposting from crowdsourcing subforum battbump threat:

Samsung Wireless PowerShare on the Galaxy S10

https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00082564/ (https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS00082564/)

you should all feel very stupid now!!1

 ... wait no, Samsung should :) First it was phones blowing up, then brilliant idea of $2000 foldable screens phone not exactly panning out https://qz.com/1598094/the-samsung-galaxy-folds-display-seems-to-have-problems/ (https://qz.com/1598094/the-samsung-galaxy-folds-display-seems-to-have-problems/) with review units going blank/tearing apart, and now I learned they actually implemented BattBump! :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TERRA Operative on April 18, 2019, 08:53:02 am
That won't be using NFC for transferring the charging power, it would most likely have both parts of a wireless charging system integrated into the phone, so each phone can be both a charging dock and the receiving device, depending on how you set the charge direction.
NFC use would be limited to communications to define which phone is the charger and which is the chargee, along with whatever other settings and data is needed.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Brumby on April 19, 2019, 06:38:38 am
That won't be using NFC for transferring the charging power, it would most likely have both parts of a wireless charging system integrated into the phone, so each phone can be both a charging dock and the receiving device, depending on how you set the charge direction.

Exactly this.

The stupidity of the BattBump campaign is that it purported to use hardware that was not capable of delivering the claimed function.

Samsung will have provided the hardware that can achieve this - so there is no "feeling stupid" over here.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on April 19, 2019, 08:57:49 am
That won't be using NFC for transferring the charging power, it would most likely have both parts of a wireless charging system integrated into the phone, so each phone can be both a charging dock and the receiving device, depending on how you set the charge direction.
Exactly this.
The stupidity of the BattBump campaign is that it purported to use hardware that was not capable of delivering the claimed function.
Samsung will have provided the hardware that can achieve this - so there is no "feeling stupid" over here.

Yes, and I've had many people contact me both public and private asking if I feel stupid now that this is a thing. Nope, because BattBump claimed demonstrably ridiculous things that could not and still do not work. They fully deserved to be called out for it.
The S10 uses the Qi standard to do the charging.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Barny on April 19, 2019, 10:16:09 am
Whats the efficiency of this phone to phone Qi Charger including loading / draining losses?
10% ? 20%?
Wouldn't it be better to use a cable or a power bank?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Fungus on April 19, 2019, 01:22:05 pm
Whats the efficiency of this phone to phone Qi Charger including loading / draining losses?
10% ? 20%?
Wouldn't it be better to use a cable or a power bank?

Sure, if you have one handy.

Sometimes you don't and this is marketing-feature gold. The first time two hipsters see people passing charge to each each other I can garantee you won't be, "What's the efficiency?", you'll be more, "Why can't my iPhone do that?"

Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: nctnico on April 19, 2019, 01:57:45 pm
Whats the efficiency of this phone to phone Qi Charger including loading / draining losses?
10% ? 20%?
Wouldn't it be better to use a cable or a power bank?
No. Wireless transfer is pretty efficient at short distances. I estimate the efficiency is at least over 80%.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 19, 2019, 05:15:18 pm
Quote from: nctnico link=top
I estimate the efficiency is at least over 80%.

I think you're dreaming

(https://img.purch.com/qi-vs-rezence/o/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS8xL0IvNTA5Mzc1L29yaWdpbmFsL2VmZmljaWVuY3ktc3R1ZHktZmlnLTIuanBn)

Result @ 4:06

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrSM4ruNw4&t=246 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrSM4ruNw4&t=246)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: nctnico on April 19, 2019, 05:31:51 pm
Quote from: nctnico link=top
I estimate the efficiency is at least over 80%.
I think you're dreaming
No. I have hands on design experience with wireless charging (and products in the field). I get better efficiencies than shown in that graph at ranges of 20mm. At smaller ranges the results can be much better. The graph you linked to is complete BS.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 19, 2019, 07:36:20 pm
Feel free to post the results of your real world tests.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on April 19, 2019, 07:56:12 pm
Feel free to post the results of your real world tests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_power_transfer
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 19, 2019, 08:15:47 pm
The graph you linked to is complete BS.

I would say - graph does not convince. Here's data from real datasheet of real chip stating that 80% is what you can get over quite wide range of delivered power:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 19, 2019, 09:47:33 pm
Feel free to post the results of your real world tests.

Real world independent tests with real world devices. I'm not interested in wiki articles about theory or marketing data done by manufacturers in the lab.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: nctnico on April 19, 2019, 11:06:44 pm
In many cases you can get even better performance than claimed in application notes because the circuits are more geared towards cutting costs than getting the best efficiency. Look at the LM5116 (from TI) for example. The eval board does 95% efficiency at best. In one my designs in which I have used this chip I get between 96% and 98% efficiency at power levels north of 500W. Ofcourse the circuit has been optimised for maximum efficiency because it was necessary to meet thermal requirements. With a total power input of around 15kW those few percent really count.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 19, 2019, 11:26:24 pm
circuits are more geared towards cutting costs than getting the best efficiency.
In other words, real life with actual consumer production devices.

The eval board does ...
Yawn!
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: maxwell3e10 on April 20, 2019, 02:13:24 am
With a total power input of around 15kW those few percent really count.
You can't compare the efficiency of a 15 kW circuit with probably ~$1000 BOM with few watt circuit for consumer electronics with limited space and ~$1 BOM.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 06:22:53 am
I'm not interested in wiki articles about theory or marketing data done by manufacturers in the lab.

Specification published in the datasheet is committing for manufacturer. TI do not want bad press in a form that proves that they fake datasheet figures. That would be devastating for business. TI do not want to get into any trouble with huge consumer electronics manufacturer that could potentially want to cover losses due to TI chip that does not deliver promised performance. Datasheets of decent IC manufacturers are much more reliable source than "independent" reviews done by tech journalists who may not even know what they are doing.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 06:57:10 am
Take a closer look at the disclaimer on the datasheet.

Quote
TI bases its knowledge and belief on information provided by third parties, and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of such information.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on April 20, 2019, 08:42:13 am
Take a closer look at the disclaimer on the datasheet.

Quote
TI bases its knowledge and belief on information provided by third parties, and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of such information.
Now open any other datasheet and read the same thing  :palm:. If you have nothing useful to say, better say nothing at all. All datasheets must lie, but your graph of unknown background must be true  :horse:.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 10:10:55 am
Take a closer look at the disclaimer on the datasheet.

Quote
TI bases its knowledge and belief on information provided by third parties, and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of such information.

So what. Every legally sane company puts legal disclaimer on virtually any public paper they release. It means that particular paper is not legal agreement between issuer and one who reads it, yet does not automagically mean that contents are lies. I better take data from datasheet with legal disclaimer than data from journalist who most likely is paid by manufacturer of winning product.

[edit] P.S. "Use at your own risk" disclaimers that warn about injuries or death does not mean that it is warranted to get injuries or die.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 10:20:17 am
I have produced two sources that found the empirical real-world efficiency to be around 60-65%. Their data even agreed.

You have produced nothing but estimates, theory and datasheets which are worthless.  :blah:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ebastler on April 20, 2019, 10:27:33 am
I have produced two sources that found the empirical real-world efficiency to be around 60-65%. Their data even agreed.

Well, in fairness, you have produced
(a) a chart from an undisclosed source, measured (?) under undisclosed conditions, and
(b) a video from a permanently excited, permanently tense guy (who happens to have a large number of Youtube subscribers), who measured one particular gadget.  ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 10:35:27 am
You have produced nothing but estimates, theory and datasheets which are worthless.  :blah:

If you think reputable manufacturer like TI can blatantly lie about main figure of their product - so be it. I just disagree with you. Further debate about "worthless datasheets" seems to me as pointless waste of time.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on April 20, 2019, 12:37:01 pm
I have produced two sources that found the empirical real-world efficiency to be around 60-65%. Their data even agreed.

I know that's ~ true because I did the maths with my Nexus 5, buuut, that does NOT mean that it's got to be always this way, everywhere: it can be done better. If you mean that a wired connection should always have less losses then yeah, but wirelessly it can be done better than with 40% losses.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: nctnico on April 20, 2019, 02:17:27 pm
With a total power input of around 15kW those few percent really count.
You can't compare the efficiency of a 15 kW circuit with probably ~$1000 BOM with few watt circuit for consumer electronics with limited space and ~$1 BOM.
No but it just shows that datasheets & applications notes from TI are conservative. Also with some design effort you can make very efficient wireless charging circuits so you can rest assured that you can get the performance as shown in the graph from TI in real world (consumer) circuits.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 06:06:56 pm
(a) a chart from an undisclosed source, measured (?) under undisclosed conditions

It's easy enough to find. The study was commissioned by the WPC -- same people who came up with Qi.

https://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/data/downloadables/1/5/2/7/john-perzow-efficiency-of-wireless-charging.pdf (https://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/data/downloadables/1/5/2/7/john-perzow-efficiency-of-wireless-charging.pdf)
And here's the math
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/measuring-wireless-charging-efficiency-in-the-real-world/ (https://www.powerelectronictips.com/measuring-wireless-charging-efficiency-in-the-real-world/)


(b) a video from a permanently excited, permanently tense guy
It's called "acting". His name is Mehdi Sadaghdar and he's an electrical engineer.
I believe his results most of all, because they're impartial, and are closer to real world conditions.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 06:12:12 pm
If you think reputable manufacturer like TI can blatantly lie about main figure of their product - so be it.
Maybe not blatant lie. I'm sure somebody somehow got those numbers. Let's call it a "stretch". You measure things under absolutely ideal lab conditions that nobody will ever have.  All manufacturers do it in every category because it sells more product. You did not know this?

with some design effort you can make very efficient wireless charging circuits so you can rest assured that you can get the performance as shown in the graph from TI in real world (consumer) circuits.

 :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 06:27:44 pm
Here are results from Richtek. A company that makes wireless power receivers. I'm sure you've heard of them.

(https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/~/media/Richtek/Design%20Support/Technical%20Documentation/AN036/EN/Version11/image004.jpg?file=preview.png&h=306&w=601)

(https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/~/media/Richtek/Design%20Support/Technical%20Documentation/AN036/EN/Version11/image022.png?file=preview.png)

Application Note: https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/~/media/AN%20PDF/AN036_EN.ashx (https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/~/media/AN%20PDF/AN036_EN.ashx)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 08:00:54 pm
You measure things under absolutely ideal lab conditions that nobody will ever have.  All manufacturers do it in every category because it sells more product. You did not know this?

Every buyer of the chip is looking for measurements in ideal lab conditions of just thing alone. Engineers of the customer usually have option to get evaluation board (http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sluub55/sluub55.pdf) to verity performance and see that datasheet figures are not as you say "stretched". If needed - they can get help from Field Application Engineer (FAE) remotely or on-site. You did not know this?

Yes, 80% is just wireless transfer efficiency. Remaining "real world" parts of phone charger are not ideal as well, but hey, their efficiency is not 80% which would result in overall 64% (80% from 80%). Modern power converters are at least 90% efficient. So I would say that 70% could be "real world" number that we can agree on.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 08:38:56 pm
I should agree because you picked a number out of thin air?

I believe Mehdi's 62% because that is the only impartial test with everyday devices (they look modern enough) that I have ever seen. I welcome anybody else who wants to try.

I agree with Dave. I think this idea is stupid and that it won't come to market. If you want the charging to be more convenient then just have a dock with a magnetic connector.

Now I had a friend that had a phone with swappable batteries.(I can't remember the model)  The large thin rectangular battery just slid into a slot at the top. And it was a still a nice a slim portable phone. That's something we need to bring back.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: Rasz on April 20, 2019, 09:12:16 pm
I agree with Dave. I think this idea is stupid and that it won't come to market.

but it just did  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 09:17:05 pm
I should agree because you picked a number out of thin air?

Don't worry, you don't have to agree about anything. Consider I pulled numbers from Richtek paper.

Quote
I think this idea is stupid and that it won't come to market. If you want the charging to be more convenient then just have a dock with a magnetic connector.

Phone->phone charging is pointless gimmick, but wireless charger is very good idea. BTW it actually works. You did not know?

Quote
The large thin rectangular battery just slid into a slot at the top. And it was a still a nice a slim portable phone. That's something we need to bring back.

Right. Bring Nokia 5110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5110) back. In last century when it was popular, it was nice a slim portable phone.  :-DD

[edit] Just noticed disclaimer you were talking about - it is on "PACKAGE OPTION ADDENDUM" page:
Quote
The information provided on this page represents TI's knowledge and belief as of the date that it is provided. TI bases its knowledge and belief on information
provided by third parties, and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of such information. Efforts are underway to better integrate information from third parties. TI has taken and
continues to take reasonable steps to provide representative and accurate information but may not have conducted destructive testing or chemical analysis on incoming materials and chemicals
.

It is about chemical composition of materials, not efficiency numbers :palm:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 09:29:04 pm
but it just did  :-DD
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 09:36:47 pm
Consider I pulled numbers from Richtek paper.
Yes from Richtek -- the ones trying to sell the technology. They did the test with a naked coil, not in a device. And still their results were lower than your 80% estimation.

Right. Bring Nokia 5110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5110) back. In last century when it was popular, it was nice a slim portable phone.  :-DD
Is there an argument somewhere in this statement?
I think swappable batteries are really practical. Popularity has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 20, 2019, 10:02:26 pm
And still their results were lower than your 80% estimation.

My estimation of total efficiency was 70%. Whatever.. our debate about it is over anyway.

I think swappable batteries are really practical.

No, they are not. The more you forget that there are battery inside your device - the more practical it is. BTW phones with removable batteries are still in production (https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_106_(2018)-9405.php).
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 10:39:13 pm
My estimation of total efficiency was 70%.
I mixed you up with nctnico. I apologize.

No, they are not. The more you forget that there are battery inside your device - the more practical it is.

Once the battery is in, it becomes like any other phone and you can forget about it. Conversely, when it dies, and you bring a spare, you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.

BTW phones with removable batteries are still in production (https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_106_(2018)-9405.php).

The one I saw looked like a normal smartphone with 4 or 5 inch screen. Not this candy bar style.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on April 20, 2019, 10:55:53 pm
Once the battery is in, it becomes like any other phone and you can forget about it. Conversely, when it dies, and you bring a spare, you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.
After some time you'll likely have problems with phone switching off randomly due to poor contact. Seen plenty of that. Service note from Nokia attached as example. Not that it was a good fix, more than half of the phones still shut down randomly unless you changed the connector. Most of other phone models had this issue as well, just not that often.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 20, 2019, 11:08:47 pm
So because of one phone, the problem is "likely"?

It's not a problem for cameras.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on April 20, 2019, 11:28:25 pm
So because of one phone, the problem is "likely"?

It's not a problem for cameras.
There are plenty of cameras with this issue. The problem with phones is that to make them thinner, you need to compromise a lot, including contact size/construction. And peak power draw can be quite extreme, so increase of contact resistance may easily cause shutdown.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 21, 2019, 12:02:48 am
Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on April 21, 2019, 01:38:45 am
Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.
I worked in manufacturer authorized service in the past. I was bad. And it's not anecdotal evidence, but based on seeing a huge number of phones.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: tautech on April 21, 2019, 02:04:59 am
Why bother with spare batteries for a phone when these are widely available:

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1k1NBOb2pK1RjSZFsq6yNlXXaa/Ultra-thin-Portable-Power-Bank-12000mAh-Quick-Charger-Powerbank-External-Battery-Pack-Suitable-for-All-Mobile.jpg_200x200.jpg)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 21, 2019, 02:06:51 am
When you work in service and all you hear about is the failures, then of course you're going to see things darker.

I can relate having worked in tech support.

How many of those cases of poor contact were possible to remedy with a cotton swab and a bit of solution?
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 21, 2019, 02:09:23 am
Why bother with spare batteries for a phone when these are widely available


you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally

you think that inefficiently trying to shift energy out of one battery and into another is better than just having another battery?  :-// Not to mention carrying around some clunky thing with cables.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TERRA Operative on April 21, 2019, 02:36:48 am
But then you have to carry around a clunky thing with cables anyway, a charger for your now flat battery...

....Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.

Has anyone ever taken the flat battery out of their phone and put it in an external charger anyway?


I used to be an advocate for removable batteries, but nowdays I don't care.
Apart from being able to completely remove power from my phone (back when I was poking things that would require a full reboot if they went wrong) it was convenient, but these days rooting and the like is so easy I haven't had to pull a battery for the last 3 models of phone (I've had every odd numbered Samsung Galaxy from the Galaxy 1, now I have the Note 9).
Battery life for me is fine, and I use it for about 3 hours, screen on while commuting each day in addition to the normal usage expected for day to day use.
As long as I stick it on the charger at night, I never get close to running out of power, and if I do forget, I can find somewhere to charge easily enough anyway.
As for battery capacity, I end up upgrading every two or three years anyway, so the battery lasts long enough.
I would prefer a removable battery for recycling and longevity reasons for when I give the old phone to someone though.

Even the headphone jack isn't such a big deal for me, Bluetooth headphones are much nicer. No ripping the phone out of my pocket or earbuds from my ears when the cable gets snagged.

Just don't take my SD card slot away! :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 21, 2019, 03:48:58 am
But then you have to carry around a clunky thing with cables anyway, a charger for your now flat battery...
You just charge it when you get back home or to your car or whatever. The whole idea is that you have power ready when you need to take a call or something.

Sure it's not for everyone. I definitely don't replace my elecronics every two years.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: madires on April 21, 2019, 11:02:33 am
I prefer removable and standardized batteries. This way one can keep one or two spare batteries (or sets of) ready which are used by several devices. And I think that charging batteries with a power bank has some rare use cases, but it's not for typical usage.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: rrinker on April 22, 2019, 04:44:44 pm
 The removable/replaceable battery ship has long sailed. It's not coming back.

 When traveling, I have a charger and cable in my back. So, I could carry a couple of spare batteries, or one power bank that can recharge my phone multiple times. Seems a wash. Plus the power bank can be used for other things, the batteries ONLY fit my phone. I don;t actually carry a power bank around with me, I can usually snag a few minutes of reharge witht he charger in an airport while wiaitng for the next plane, and I always have my laptop, which I tend to only remove from the bag for the security checkpoint, airplane seats are too cramped to use it while in flight, so I cna charge my phone off that if needed.

 Actually, my phone has no problem going all day on a charge anyway. And if I'm driving, it's plugged in in my car so I can listen to music. Travel by airplane, well, once on the plane I put it in airplane mode which really extends battery life with all the radios shut off, and only enable it again when I land to let people know I have arrived.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 22, 2019, 07:03:42 pm
Chargers are great if you're near power, but useless when you're not,  which I often am. Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.

Bulky, heavy power banks when I'm trying to travel light? No thanks.

I carry spare batteries for the camera. It doesn't charge by USB (not many bigger cameras do).
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: ogden on April 22, 2019, 07:46:45 pm
Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.

I doubt that someone with such level of discipline would have fully charged spare battery in the pocket ;)
[edit] There are QC 2.0 / USB-C PD power banks around that are quick - obviously if phone supports QC or USB-C PD.

Quote
Bulky, heavy power banks when I'm trying to travel light? No thanks.

It is not that bad. Quality Li-Ion battery banks are quite efficient. Compared to precharged replaceable Li_Ion battery, you need no more than 150% bigger (by weight/volume) power bank.

The removable/replaceable battery ship has long sailed. It's not coming back.

Right. Kind of. Removable batteries are still there for specific kind of devices and low end phones, yet you will never have slim phones/tablets with removable battery because removable battery must have protective case, it can't be "naked pouch" cell. Watch iFixit videos (https://youtu.be/XO7MIRNL0Ko?t=113) of modern smartphone internals and imagine how to design such with removable battery. Those knowledgeable will see that batteries in slimphones are non-removable for a very good reason.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: boffin on April 22, 2019, 09:33:33 pm
What the world really needs to do is jump on a standard size battery pack for Li Ion.  The closest thing to standard is either bare 18650 cells, or the Sony NP batteries (which are common in the photography world).
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on April 23, 2019, 03:07:54 am
but it just did  :-DD
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.

Getting back to the actual topic, BattBump
Ok, so the tech is now here in at least one model phone, so you could have an app like BattBump that allows you to find other people nearby who want to loan you their phone so you can get some charge.

Several points:
1) Why does this even have to involve a phone? Why couldn't such an app have been done years ago where you can find people who are carry a fast charging battery bank?
Maybe it hasn't because no one has thought of it, or maybe because it's not such a practical idea?

2) Are random people you don't know really going to want to sit with you for at least 10's of minutes with your phones back to back so they can charge? For what? some crypto coins or something (worth a few bucks maybe?). We live in a fast pace world, hardly anyone is going to want to sit idle like that for any length of time.

3) The only way I see this working in practice is for friends who are out somewhere and you desperately need a charge. But this has several observations:
a) If you so desperately needed that charge to call someone or something, you could just use their phone for that
b) In the modern smartphone society people have adapted very nicely to remembering to charge their phone before going out etc, they have already trained themselves to avoid this issue.
c) The friend might have a battery pack or cable anyway

So I think whilst it's nice marketing, in practice I don't see it being used all that much. And I don't see a BattBump style app becoming popular.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on April 23, 2019, 03:09:54 am
Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.
I doubt that someone with such level of discipline would have fully charged spare battery in the pocket ;)
[edit] There are QC 2.0 / USB-C PD power banks around that are quick - obviously if phone supports QC or USB-C PD.

I carry a QC 3 battery bank and it's stupidly quick to put useful charge back into my phone, it's 5-10 minutes is enough to be very useful.
Only problem is there doesn't seem to be a QC3 battery bank under 10000mAh anywhere, so it's not as small as I'd like.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TheNewLab on April 23, 2019, 05:28:27 am
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.
[/quote]

Several points:
1) Why does this even have to involve a phone? Why couldn't such an app have been done years ago where you can find people who are carry a fast charging battery bank?
Maybe it hasn't because no one has thought of it, or maybe because it's not such a practical idea?

[/quote]

Not  really practical.
anyone can re-charge from their car..carry a small charger and I see people using an outlet on mass transit while waiting for their train. Can carry an external battery pack. Lith-ion one are small and pack a lot of those electrons..I also have an external 10,000 mA battery. It fits in a Kirkiland pouch with cables for the Iphone and one for a tablet, plus the little AC piece for wall charging. he Kirkland pouch is those tiny bags you stuff a spare sew-up tube for bicycles. about the size of my two hands cupped together.

That small battery can re-charge my phone 4 times and a 7" tablet 2x's  I see transit field technicians who use something similar with a holder behind their smart phone.. They are using their phone constantly voice, text and data..it allows them to put in long days and not be concerned running low on charge


2) Are random people you don't know really going to want to sit with you for at least 10's of minutes with your phones back to back so they can charge? For what?

In my experience I have seen someone try..the person with the charged phone brushed him off, turned to his friend and commented "how rude"

a) If you so desperately needed that charge to call someone or something, you could just use their phone for that

Yup, I havve done that with a stranger. forgot my phone and had to call 911 emergency for someone in need of help. Person was a OK about it, and then looked around and started to help the person. I group effort LOL
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TheNewLab on April 23, 2019, 05:31:45 am
Well that last post really sucked  :palm:

I wasa so proud of myself figuring out how to quote others! uh duuh :palm:
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TheNewLab on April 23, 2019, 05:40:00 am
Did Battery bump ever get kickstarted? the video link is dead...

Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.

Yup,
regarding power tools, some cameras and such having extra lith batteries for high power draw devices. Using a 20v-Max powered grinder...a 1 or 2 or even 3Amp battery is useless.  A 5Amp battery gives me a little over 30 minutes of continual work..so in these cases. we will and  still do carry spare batteries

What's needed a a universal power tool battery..but then as soon as a more powerful battery is developed, there goes the compatibility...
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: TheNewLab on April 23, 2019, 05:43:45 am

I carry a QC 3 battery bank and it's stupidly quick to put useful charge back into my phone, it's 5-10 minutes is enough to be very useful.
Only problem is there doesn't seem to be a QC3 battery bank under 10000mAh anywhere, so it's not as small as I'd like.

Yup,

Mine doesn't fit in my shirt pocket but does in the side pocket of cargo pants

Ah Ha, the archived kickstarter link still works 10 months later

-
----------------------------------
"BattBump are developing an app. The technology aspect regarding the transfer of battery would be purchased from a company/and or persons who already have developed the technology. We will not be developing this technology ourselves nor utilising any technology within the app without permission. The current funding will be used to have the shell of the app developed, ready for the technology to be integrated when and if it is available. The video and creative stills are to give a storyboard of how the app and technology would work together once it is available and once it is integrated alongside BattBump. This is our research and development phase and we thank and appreciate our backers patience and support"
----------------------------------

I wonder if a scam and used her name on it.  the description seems to say that it is not even an app, but "shell" for a product (app) that never really existed..

A scam upon another scam????
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on April 23, 2019, 07:04:26 am
Did Battery bump ever get kickstarted? the video link is dead...

No, and the saga was hilarious, it was like watching a soap opera unfold over 48 hours.

IIRC: Summary:
- I release my video and an hour later the BattBump campaign has changed to clarify/remove some technical points
- An hour later they posted an update admitting the technology doesn't exist yet and they wanted the money for an app that did nothing right now.
- Several more changes to the campaign over the coming hours.
- Campaign was finally shut down (by the owner, not KS) before the day was out
- The campaign owner deleted her KS profile and changed her LinkedIn profile about 3 times in as many hours going under different variations of her name (she has two middle names)
- She modifies her website to remove contact and place of work info
- Finally deletes her LinkedIn profile completely
- Finally deletes her personal web page and campaign websites entirely
- Tries to erase every mention of herself from the internet

And all this happened over the span of 24-48 hours, it was hilarious to watch in real time as someone tries to erase themselves

Then my video gets hit with privacy complaint and I had to do a retracted version because the Youtube editing tool was broken
Then my videos get hit with a targeted paid thumbs down campaign making me do yet another video laughing at this and ironically drawing more attention to the campaign owner
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: EEVblog on April 23, 2019, 07:10:24 am
I wonder if a scam and used her name on it.  the description seems to say that it is not even an app, but "shell" for a product (app) that never really existed..
A scam upon another scam????

Nope, her personal website and LinkedIn profiles were changed several times during all this, and ultimately deleted to erase herself from the Internet for whatever reason.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on April 23, 2019, 05:24:43 pm
2) Are random people you don't know really going to want to sit with you for at least 10's of minutes with your phones back to back so they can charge?

And will that person want to sacrifice 40% more energy from their phone for your 10 minutes, just to account for losses.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: innkeeper on May 14, 2019, 01:52:29 pm
How Fast is Wireless Power Share on the Galaxy S10?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Roz6e0sOGQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Roz6e0sOGQE)
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 14, 2019, 02:01:08 pm
0%+100% -> 32%+54% in one hour. Slow, but pretty efficient actually, 86%
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on May 14, 2019, 09:29:15 pm
 ???
41% of 2500mAh = 1435 mAh
30% of 4100mAh = 1230 mAh

1435 + 1230 = 2,665 mAh

2665 out of 4100 mAh = 65%
It matches what I've been saying several pages back.


The last 10% on my phone is pretty much unusable. So instead of one dead phone and one fully charged one, you have two phones that are going to die very soon.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: wraper on May 15, 2019, 01:58:45 am
The last 10% on my phone is pretty much unusable. So instead of one dead phone and one fully charged one, you have two phones that are going to die very soon.
Means pretty much either battery or phone as a whole is crap. I can use mine down to 1% without any issue. It's 1.5 years old.
Quote
It matches what I've been saying several pages back.
No it does not. You happily omitted loses in battery charging. In previous pages talk was about wireless power transfer only.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: timelessbeing on May 15, 2019, 02:26:48 am
Well aren't you special. I guess I didn't buy the "right" phone. I can technically use the last little bit, but it's so slow in battery saver mode that I'd sooner throw it out the window.  I've observed the Android phones my friends have are much the same. Then you have some iPhones which are just throttled globally to make the battery look like it lasts longer.

Actually the Electroboom video I posted absolutely factors in charging losses, and his result (62%) is pretty much the same as this one.
Title: Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on May 15, 2019, 09:24:29 am
???
41% of 2500mAh = 1435 mAh
30% of 4100mAh = 1230 mAh

1435 + 1230 = 2,665 mAh

2665 out of 4100 mAh = 65%
It matches what I've been saying several pages back.

The battery of an S9+ is 3500mAh, an S10+ has 4100mAh. In the first try he gets:

S9+ -> +20% = 3500*0.2 = 700 mAh
S10+ -> -31% = -4100*0.31 = -1271 mAh

700/1271 = 55% efficiency.

No?