Author Topic: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!  (Read 40424 times)

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Offline ogden

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #300 on: April 20, 2019, 09:17:05 pm »
I should agree because you picked a number out of thin air?

Don't worry, you don't have to agree about anything. Consider I pulled numbers from Richtek paper.

Quote
I think this idea is stupid and that it won't come to market. If you want the charging to be more convenient then just have a dock with a magnetic connector.

Phone->phone charging is pointless gimmick, but wireless charger is very good idea. BTW it actually works. You did not know?

Quote
The large thin rectangular battery just slid into a slot at the top. And it was a still a nice a slim portable phone. That's something we need to bring back.

Right. Bring Nokia 5110 back. In last century when it was popular, it was nice a slim portable phone.  :-DD

[edit] Just noticed disclaimer you were talking about - it is on "PACKAGE OPTION ADDENDUM" page:
Quote
The information provided on this page represents TI's knowledge and belief as of the date that it is provided. TI bases its knowledge and belief on information
provided by third parties, and makes no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of such information. Efforts are underway to better integrate information from third parties. TI has taken and
continues to take reasonable steps to provide representative and accurate information but may not have conducted destructive testing or chemical analysis on incoming materials and chemicals
.

It is about chemical composition of materials, not efficiency numbers :palm:
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:40:04 pm by ogden »
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #301 on: April 20, 2019, 09:29:04 pm »
but it just did  :-DD
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #302 on: April 20, 2019, 09:36:47 pm »
Consider I pulled numbers from Richtek paper.
Yes from Richtek -- the ones trying to sell the technology. They did the test with a naked coil, not in a device. And still their results were lower than your 80% estimation.

Right. Bring Nokia 5110 back. In last century when it was popular, it was nice a slim portable phone.  :-DD
Is there an argument somewhere in this statement?
I think swappable batteries are really practical. Popularity has nothing to do with it.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #303 on: April 20, 2019, 10:02:26 pm »
And still their results were lower than your 80% estimation.

My estimation of total efficiency was 70%. Whatever.. our debate about it is over anyway.

I think swappable batteries are really practical.

No, they are not. The more you forget that there are battery inside your device - the more practical it is. BTW phones with removable batteries are still in production.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #304 on: April 20, 2019, 10:39:13 pm »
My estimation of total efficiency was 70%.
I mixed you up with nctnico. I apologize.

No, they are not. The more you forget that there are battery inside your device - the more practical it is.

Once the battery is in, it becomes like any other phone and you can forget about it. Conversely, when it dies, and you bring a spare, you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.

BTW phones with removable batteries are still in production.

The one I saw looked like a normal smartphone with 4 or 5 inch screen. Not this candy bar style.
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #305 on: April 20, 2019, 10:55:53 pm »
Once the battery is in, it becomes like any other phone and you can forget about it. Conversely, when it dies, and you bring a spare, you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.
After some time you'll likely have problems with phone switching off randomly due to poor contact. Seen plenty of that. Service note from Nokia attached as example. Not that it was a good fix, more than half of the phones still shut down randomly unless you changed the connector. Most of other phone models had this issue as well, just not that often.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 11:01:23 pm by wraper »
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #306 on: April 20, 2019, 11:08:47 pm »
So because of one phone, the problem is "likely"?

It's not a problem for cameras.
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #307 on: April 20, 2019, 11:28:25 pm »
So because of one phone, the problem is "likely"?

It's not a problem for cameras.
There are plenty of cameras with this issue. The problem with phones is that to make them thinner, you need to compromise a lot, including contact size/construction. And peak power draw can be quite extreme, so increase of contact resistance may easily cause shutdown.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #308 on: April 21, 2019, 12:02:48 am »
Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #309 on: April 21, 2019, 01:38:45 am »
Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.
I worked in manufacturer authorized service in the past. I was bad. And it's not anecdotal evidence, but based on seeing a huge number of phones.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 01:40:42 am by wraper »
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #310 on: April 21, 2019, 02:04:59 am »
Why bother with spare batteries for a phone when these are widely available:

« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 02:06:57 am by tautech »
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #311 on: April 21, 2019, 02:06:51 am »
When you work in service and all you hear about is the failures, then of course you're going to see things darker.

I can relate having worked in tech support.

How many of those cases of poor contact were possible to remedy with a cotton swab and a bit of solution?
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #312 on: April 21, 2019, 02:09:23 am »
Why bother with spare batteries for a phone when these are widely available


you can INSTANTLY have full charge again. Then you can use your phone normally

you think that inefficiently trying to shift energy out of one battery and into another is better than just having another battery?  :-// Not to mention carrying around some clunky thing with cables.
 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #313 on: April 21, 2019, 02:36:48 am »
But then you have to carry around a clunky thing with cables anyway, a charger for your now flat battery...

....Then you can use your phone normally while you charge the other battery. You can even keep one in the car or backpack. Just like cameras.

Has anyone ever taken the flat battery out of their phone and put it in an external charger anyway?


I used to be an advocate for removable batteries, but nowdays I don't care.
Apart from being able to completely remove power from my phone (back when I was poking things that would require a full reboot if they went wrong) it was convenient, but these days rooting and the like is so easy I haven't had to pull a battery for the last 3 models of phone (I've had every odd numbered Samsung Galaxy from the Galaxy 1, now I have the Note 9).
Battery life for me is fine, and I use it for about 3 hours, screen on while commuting each day in addition to the normal usage expected for day to day use.
As long as I stick it on the charger at night, I never get close to running out of power, and if I do forget, I can find somewhere to charge easily enough anyway.
As for battery capacity, I end up upgrading every two or three years anyway, so the battery lasts long enough.
I would prefer a removable battery for recycling and longevity reasons for when I give the old phone to someone though.

Even the headphone jack isn't such a big deal for me, Bluetooth headphones are much nicer. No ripping the phone out of my pocket or earbuds from my ears when the cable gets snagged.

Just don't take my SD card slot away! :D
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 02:48:59 am by TERRA Operative »
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #314 on: April 21, 2019, 03:48:58 am »
But then you have to carry around a clunky thing with cables anyway, a charger for your now flat battery...
You just charge it when you get back home or to your car or whatever. The whole idea is that you have power ready when you need to take a call or something.

Sure it's not for everyone. I definitely don't replace my elecronics every two years.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #315 on: April 21, 2019, 11:02:33 am »
I prefer removable and standardized batteries. This way one can keep one or two spare batteries (or sets of) ready which are used by several devices. And I think that charging batteries with a power bank has some rare use cases, but it's not for typical usage.
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #316 on: April 22, 2019, 04:44:44 pm »
 The removable/replaceable battery ship has long sailed. It's not coming back.

 When traveling, I have a charger and cable in my back. So, I could carry a couple of spare batteries, or one power bank that can recharge my phone multiple times. Seems a wash. Plus the power bank can be used for other things, the batteries ONLY fit my phone. I don;t actually carry a power bank around with me, I can usually snag a few minutes of reharge witht he charger in an airport while wiaitng for the next plane, and I always have my laptop, which I tend to only remove from the bag for the security checkpoint, airplane seats are too cramped to use it while in flight, so I cna charge my phone off that if needed.

 Actually, my phone has no problem going all day on a charge anyway. And if I'm driving, it's plugged in in my car so I can listen to music. Travel by airplane, well, once on the plane I put it in airplane mode which really extends battery life with all the radios shut off, and only enable it again when I land to let people know I have arrived.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #317 on: April 22, 2019, 07:03:42 pm »
Chargers are great if you're near power, but useless when you're not,  which I often am. Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.

Bulky, heavy power banks when I'm trying to travel light? No thanks.

I carry spare batteries for the camera. It doesn't charge by USB (not many bigger cameras do).
 

Offline ogden

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #318 on: April 22, 2019, 07:46:45 pm »
Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.

I doubt that someone with such level of discipline would have fully charged spare battery in the pocket ;)
[edit] There are QC 2.0 / USB-C PD power banks around that are quick - obviously if phone supports QC or USB-C PD.

Quote
Bulky, heavy power banks when I'm trying to travel light? No thanks.

It is not that bad. Quality Li-Ion battery banks are quite efficient. Compared to precharged replaceable Li_Ion battery, you need no more than 150% bigger (by weight/volume) power bank.

The removable/replaceable battery ship has long sailed. It's not coming back.

Right. Kind of. Removable batteries are still there for specific kind of devices and low end phones, yet you will never have slim phones/tablets with removable battery because removable battery must have protective case, it can't be "naked pouch" cell. Watch iFixit videos of modern smartphone internals and imagine how to design such with removable battery. Those knowledgeable will see that batteries in slimphones are non-removable for a very good reason.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 07:54:55 pm by ogden »
 

Offline boffin

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #319 on: April 22, 2019, 09:33:33 pm »
What the world really needs to do is jump on a standard size battery pack for Li Ion.  The closest thing to standard is either bare 18650 cells, or the Sony NP batteries (which are common in the photography world).
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #320 on: April 23, 2019, 03:07:54 am »
but it just did  :-DD
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.

Getting back to the actual topic, BattBump
Ok, so the tech is now here in at least one model phone, so you could have an app like BattBump that allows you to find other people nearby who want to loan you their phone so you can get some charge.

Several points:
1) Why does this even have to involve a phone? Why couldn't such an app have been done years ago where you can find people who are carry a fast charging battery bank?
Maybe it hasn't because no one has thought of it, or maybe because it's not such a practical idea?

2) Are random people you don't know really going to want to sit with you for at least 10's of minutes with your phones back to back so they can charge? For what? some crypto coins or something (worth a few bucks maybe?). We live in a fast pace world, hardly anyone is going to want to sit idle like that for any length of time.

3) The only way I see this working in practice is for friends who are out somewhere and you desperately need a charge. But this has several observations:
a) If you so desperately needed that charge to call someone or something, you could just use their phone for that
b) In the modern smartphone society people have adapted very nicely to remembering to charge their phone before going out etc, they have already trained themselves to avoid this issue.
c) The friend might have a battery pack or cable anyway

So I think whilst it's nice marketing, in practice I don't see it being used all that much. And I don't see a BattBump style app becoming popular.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #321 on: April 23, 2019, 03:09:54 am »
Chargers are slow, and usually when you're plugging in, it's because you needed the juice 5 minutes ago.
I doubt that someone with such level of discipline would have fully charged spare battery in the pocket ;)
[edit] There are QC 2.0 / USB-C PD power banks around that are quick - obviously if phone supports QC or USB-C PD.

I carry a QC 3 battery bank and it's stupidly quick to put useful charge back into my phone, it's 5-10 minutes is enough to be very useful.
Only problem is there doesn't seem to be a QC3 battery bank under 10000mAh anywhere, so it's not as small as I'd like.
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #322 on: April 23, 2019, 05:28:27 am »
If you have a new Galaxy, yes.
I can see the utility in charging your headphones or whatever, but I don't think phone-to-phone charging is going to catch on.
[/quote]

Several points:
1) Why does this even have to involve a phone? Why couldn't such an app have been done years ago where you can find people who are carry a fast charging battery bank?
Maybe it hasn't because no one has thought of it, or maybe because it's not such a practical idea?

[/quote]

Not  really practical.
anyone can re-charge from their car..carry a small charger and I see people using an outlet on mass transit while waiting for their train. Can carry an external battery pack. Lith-ion one are small and pack a lot of those electrons..I also have an external 10,000 mA battery. It fits in a Kirkiland pouch with cables for the Iphone and one for a tablet, plus the little AC piece for wall charging. he Kirkland pouch is those tiny bags you stuff a spare sew-up tube for bicycles. about the size of my two hands cupped together.

That small battery can re-charge my phone 4 times and a 7" tablet 2x's  I see transit field technicians who use something similar with a holder behind their smart phone.. They are using their phone constantly voice, text and data..it allows them to put in long days and not be concerned running low on charge


2) Are random people you don't know really going to want to sit with you for at least 10's of minutes with your phones back to back so they can charge? For what?

In my experience I have seen someone try..the person with the charged phone brushed him off, turned to his friend and commented "how rude"

a) If you so desperately needed that charge to call someone or something, you could just use their phone for that

Yup, I havve done that with a stranger. forgot my phone and had to call 911 emergency for someone in need of help. Person was a OK about it, and then looked around and started to help the person. I group effort LOL
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #323 on: April 23, 2019, 05:31:45 am »
Well that last post really sucked  :palm:

I wasa so proud of myself figuring out how to quote others! uh duuh :palm:
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1099- BattBump - Dumbest Kickstarter Ever!
« Reply #324 on: April 23, 2019, 05:40:00 am »
Did Battery bump ever get kickstarted? the video link is dead...

Well I've not run into the problem, or anybody I know. So it must not be that bad. Certainly, it's not bad enough for manufacturers to stop using removable batteries in cameras... or power tools... or radios, GPS units... etc. etc.  My camera draws around 7.5W at peak. I think you are overstating the problem.

Yup,
regarding power tools, some cameras and such having extra lith batteries for high power draw devices. Using a 20v-Max powered grinder...a 1 or 2 or even 3Amp battery is useless.  A 5Amp battery gives me a little over 30 minutes of continual work..so in these cases. we will and  still do carry spare batteries

What's needed a a universal power tool battery..but then as soon as a more powerful battery is developed, there goes the compatibility...
 


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