EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)

[EEVblog]

A look at the new low cost $220 Pace ADS200 130W cartridge tip AccuDrive Production Soldering Station
Can it beat the higher priced JBC CD-B station?

7:00 The new 130W TD200 soldering iron pencil
9:34 Teardown
14:18 First Turn On
16:10 Temperature accuracy test
18:06 Setup options
20:58 Burn proof lead test
21:42 Soldering ground plane thermal capacity test vs JBC
25:48 Tip life and iron plating
27:30 General discussion on soldering temperature
30:31 Thermal response test
33:53 Power consumption
35:29 Heater waveform measurement
37:08 Conclusion

https://paceworldwide.com/ADS200/

[Uksa007]

Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

So you didn't like it, Bruce?

[EEVblog]

Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex

In that case, yeah, JBC for sure, unless you absolutely hated the price of the tips.

[EEVblog]

Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?

[Fungus]

All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that?

[EEVblog]

All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that?

A bit. I wold have preferred that the temp simply go down and the display remains as normal.

[Shock]

I just got mine today, really impressed with how solidly constructed they are. The iron feels great and the tip to work is perfect. I havn't set them up in place yet but I did some practice flow soldering movements and the iron has got a balanced feel in my hand. I think the length is just right.

[PeterL]

When pushing the tip in a wet sponge it's surface temperature will in theory drop to 100°C: the temperature of boiling water. While it looks impressive that the temperature shown stays at 350, this actually proves that the temperature doesn't reflect the temperature of the business end very well.

IIRC The JBC dropped quite a lot more (to below 200) when you tested it a while ago. So it seems like JBC measures temperature at the front of the tip, and Pace more to the back.

This would also explain why the JBC is doing so much better when working on the large copper plane. Maybe a thermal cam can show what's going on?

BTW this is also a reason to use brass wool instead of a sponge. Cleaning the tip in water gives it a thermal shock every time you do it.

[Brumby]

Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Before verbally castrating Dave, you should take a minute to understand one rather relevant consideration...  The greatest audience for the EEVBlog, by country, is the USA.

Dave speaks to his audience.  (However strange that may seem.)

In future, I would suggest you try to be a little less parochial.

[Brumby]

Now I have really heard it. That is officially called Marketing Wank. Who care about the country you live in, maybe you should move to the country you market for (Retardistan)


Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 04:11:45

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?

OK - so you are going to be pig headed about it.

That's a shame.

[Fungus]

All LEDs in the display constantly flashing when you're not using it? How annoying is that?

A bit. I wold have preferred that the temp simply go down and the display remains as normal.

Yep. The display should show the set temperature and the power LED should go off to show that it's idle.

When you pick up the iron the display should change to the actual temperature.

Between that and the temperature jumping around, they've totally failed in the firmware for this.

[lowimpedance]

Seems a bit expensive from the Aussie distrubtor Mektronics, at their price not sure why you wouldn't just buy the JBC?

Pace ADS200 Station 230 VAC with Instant SetBack Tool Stand 8007-0581
$542.86ex

JBC CD-B Solder Station with Standard Handpiece PLUS ROLL OF MULTICORE SOLDER MC334
SKU: JBC-CD-2BE
$547.00ex

You should note that the JBC is currently on sale at that price but is normally $790, and dont forget the 10% on top too.

I just got mine today, really impressed with how solidly constructed they are. The iron feels great and the tip to work is perfect. I havn't set them up in place yet but I did some practice flow soldering movements and the iron has got a balanced feel in my hand. I think the length is just right.

Interesting , what motivated you to choose the Pace over say the JBC (if it was on special that is) or a Hakko variant ?.

Between that and the temperature jumping around, they've totally failed in the firmware for this.

 The JBC display is streets ahead in that area.

[Bud]

What is the point in that advantage if you can't see JBC display in the first place because it is badly angled and all it does it reflects the shack lights above it into your eyes.

[Brumby]

Marketing Wank is a term used by Dave on many occasions. An honest review would be PACE, cheap in US bullshit price in Australia. I have been watching Dave since episode 250 there abouts and slowly over time Dave is no longer the honest reviewer he was at the beginning. He used to provide review for Australia and other places now Marketing has taken him to be selective.


Here is the killer. The JBC CD 2BE is only $549 AUD ex GST, no where near the markup of the Pace. In this case Dave has really been playing Pocket Billiards when it comes to review and should be exposed for such outright crap.

So - point out the pricing issue.  There's no need to go postal over it.

[b_force]

Not impressed by this solder iron.
Old technology, of the shelf casing with some cheap looking front and even a freakin' old transformer.
The only thing that stands are the removable tips.

You don't need much more than just an eight pin micro-controller with some extra parts and a PSU to make an very well performing iron station.
It's not so hard to make a PID controller with some optimizations you know.
I even can't be bothered about a LCD screen to be very honest, as long as I can set the temp and know when it's hot.
(what else do you need?)

I find the TS100 and TS80 much more interesting from a technology point of view (the accelerometer is a very smart move).

Not that it matters, I have a feel this is going to be one of these "subjective filled with emotion topics" again.

[EEVblog]

Marketing Wank is a term used by Dave on many occasions. An honest review would be PACE, cheap in US bullshit price in Australia.

Says the guy from Australia.
What about the UK, Canada, Germany etc, all with the same or bigger audiences than Australia. What about all the other countries?
Should I mention them all, or just Australia to appease you?

I have been watching Dave since episode 250 there abouts and slowly over time Dave is no longer the honest reviewer he was at the beginning. He used to provide review for Australia and other places now Marketing has taken him to be selective.

Bullshit, I've just come to realise that it's a waste of time trying to point out prices in other countries. There are so many countries, so many distributors, and so many ways to buy stuff (official vs direct import vs grey market), it's just pointless.

What is your problem really?
Why get so uptight about this? The review is the review, you either like the product or you don't. If you like it, check out prices available to you before making your purchase decision.
Like I said, my videos are watched in 150+ countries, what makes you so special that I have to cater to you?

Here is the killer. The JBC CD 2BE is only $549 AUD ex GST, no where near the markup of the Pace.

Go on you, you did your research, go buy the JBC and quit complaining.

In this case Dave has really been playing Pocket Billiards when it comes to review and should be exposed for such outright crap.

Consider my myself exposed.
Why don't you start a video blog and do your own "expose" video?

Quote from: Brumby on Today at 06:06:56

>Quote from: EEVblog on Today at 04:11:45

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?

OK - so you are going to be pig headed about it.
That's a shame.

It's called being practical. It's stunning that someone can't understand that 

What next, let's say I put the Oz price at the end of the review, would you complain that I made you watch a 40min review just the find out the Oz price?

[EEVblog]

What is the point in that advantage if you can't see JBC display in the first place because it is badly angled and all it does it reflects the shack lights above it into your eyes.

I can see mine just fine. YMMV.

[b_force]

Dave, Personally you really fucked up this review, low cost for bloody Australian, For Retardistan yes, Not Shitsville. Next time look at Australia before fuxking up the cost of these unit. PACE fucked up have to log on for the price. Piss Poor review

Australia is less than 10% of my audience, I always give prices in US dollars.
You aren't capable of figuring out for yourself if the iron is good value in your own country?
What's wrong with the review apart from not mentioning local prices? What about the 150+ other countries? Is it a crap review because I didn't mention them too?

It would cost you just a couple of minutes to give some ballpark prices for some areas like north America, Europe and Australia.
Of course you don't need to give prices in 150+ countries??
Prices in different countries in these areas are more or less the same anyway.

And yes, that makes a lot of sense. Since why even bother if I need to pay top dollars for something that performs less?
The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

Don't really get why go into a emotional argument about it, see it as well meant feedback

[EEVblog]

The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really? 

[continuo]

wow... that's a big and heavy lump of metal... kind of the harley davidson of soldering stations 

thanks for the review.

[b_force]

The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really? 

If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.

[EEVblog]

The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really? 

If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.

The USD price is in the very first line of the video description. Anyone can easily get a ballpark idea of the cost in their country based on this before they even watching a single minute of the video. My videos cater to a technical audience who know very well pricing markups of products in their own country and how they apply to.
Anyone in Australia for example with any clue at all knows about the "Australia Tax", and "well, it likely ain't going to be US$220 equivalent here, I'd better go spend a minute checking local prices before I spend 40 minute watching this review video".

In this case what if the JBC is much cheaper in one region than another? What if I do say 4 typical regions and the price comparison are all different? Do I have to then spend time yapping on about the variations in "value" for each region?
It get messy real quick, hence sometimes I just say US prices as a ballpark and be done with it.

Look, I'm not denying the value of having region prices in review videos, and I do do this occasionally, but sometimes I either forget, or I think it's more trouble than it's worth. e.g. in the pocket multimeter shootout.
In this video, we now have two irons, should I go find the price of both of them in all regions? What if I had three irons? Four?
What about imports or grey market sellers on ebay?

I'll try and do better next time, ok?

Look, let me tell you about the life a Youtuber. We get a lot of feedback, a metric shit ton of feedback. A good lot of it complaining about something. I have countless time done review videos with region pricing in them, and even then I still get people complaining that I didn't mention Amazon, or ebay, or this seller or that seller, or this special etc and "why didn't you put that in the video". Countless times. I know, ok, please cut me some slack and understand that sometimes I just don't fell like doing it.

[b_force]

The whole purpose of these kind of videos is to give people a good sense what is around for what price and how it performs.
Otherwise it's kind of a useless video (please don't come with the "than don't watch it" argument)

It makes a 40 minute review "kinda useless"? Really? 

If a significant junk of that video is about comparing it to a similar product and the argument "price" is being used?
Yes.

Price is a main factor in a fair objective comparison.
In my opinion a "journalist" has at least the responsibility to do some basic research around to give the reader/viewer a general idea.
If you would write/show a review for the local community I can understand you don't look much further.
But since this is an international YouTube channel, it's a different story.
If selling price are so much different in big parts of the world, it's at least important to mention.

The USD price is in the very first line of the video description. Anyone can easily get a ballpark idea of the cost in their country based on this before they even watching a single minute of the video. My videos cater to a technical audience who know very well pricing markups of products in their own country and how they apply to.
Anyone in Australia for example with any clue at all knows about the "Australia Tax", and "well, it likely ain't going to be US$220 equivalent here, I'd better go spend a minute checking local prices before I spend 40 minute watching this review video".

Look, I'm not denying the value of having region prices in review videos, and I do do this occasionally, but sometimes I either forget, or I think it's more trouble than it's worth. e.g. in the pocket multimeter shootout.
In this video, we now have two irons, should I go find the price of both of them in all regions? What if I had three irons? Four?
What about imports or grey market sellers on ebay?

I'll try and do better next time, ok?

Look, let me tell you about the life a Youtuber. We get a lot of feedback, a metric shit ton of feedback. A good lot of it complaining about something. I have countless time done review videos with region pricing in them, and even then I still get people complaining that I didn't mention Amazon, or ebay, or this seller or that seller, or this special etc and "why didn't you put that in the video". Countless time. I know, ok, please cut me some slack.

I don't have any issue cutting some slack, no worries.
In fact, if you would have start saying that you tried the best you could, with that right from the beginning, it's clear to people.
I guess the whole point is that people wanna know why.
Maybe mostly because people don't really know what they can trust anymore on Youtube (or in general maybe)

Since we have a great big and wonderful community here, I think it wouldn't be to difficult to ask around what the main distributors are in some parts of the world.
So next time it would be pretty easy and quick to check some resources.
Of course you don't need to give all of them, but by showing a couple gives people at least the idea you did your best to be as objective as possible.
Even with four different products it wouldn't cost much time to quickly find out the prices and give the viewer a certain price range.

In EU for example the ADS200 is also similar priced to JBC, if not more expensive.
From your review I can see that I wouldn't trust this Pace soldering iron if I need to pay the same money more or less.
If it was half the price, that totally changes obviously.

So in the end the conclusion if "it's a killer or not" is also entirely different.
Even if I as a viewer would check my local precis, it puts the whole video in a different perspective in general.

[Monkeh]

This just in: Certain countries and areas have obnoxious pricing problems. Dave isn't responsible for this. Do your own research, his video is just a small part of your research.