Author Topic: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)  (Read 15650 times)

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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #125 on: August 11, 2018, 12:15:56 pm »
TL;DR

Repairs an 11 year old DVD player smps for a cute coworker. 2 days to replace caps and find dead diode. Showed her but was still broken. Took 7 more days to find damage he did himself. Didn't get the girl or money for repair. Blames planned obsolescence. Irony is DVD player is obsolete.

Now suffering PTSD.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #126 on: August 11, 2018, 10:38:06 pm »
“Planned obsolescence”: the rallying cry of anti-corporate or anti-capitalist crusaders who don’t understand the concept of designing down to a cost (i.e. making something affordable by eliminating costs that only extend the lifespan beyond the amount of time the device is expected to be used anyway).
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #127 on: August 12, 2018, 12:39:15 am »
An electrolytic capacitor placed very close, no actually _touching_, the most significant heat sources? It will dry out in a relatively short time and then bye, bye soldering station! Unless the owner knows how to replace capacitors (which should be the case). If it were a mass market product then I would say this must be a clear case of planned obsolescence, like the one I've discovered in one Philips DVD player (see https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/10-days-of-anguish-the-story-of-my-first-major-not-so-trivial-repair-of-consumer-electronics.127336/ for details). But in this case I'd say it must be the effect of piss-poor board design. If I bought this station the first thing I'd do would be unsoldering and moving the capacitor to another location.
Do you own the product? I've opened mine and no, it was not touching the 105c Nippon Chemi-Con el-cap. The regulator dissipation does not vary and the el-cap in question is just above the air convection intake (clearly the coldest part of the aluminum enclosure). At 126VAC mains (ANSI +5%) I measured the tab of the regulator at 85c (~80c @120v). So I decided to use a larger heat sink I had in stock and was satisfied with just 50c at 126VAC (47c @120v).

Pace may consider a larger heat sink, but a small plastic shroud may be enough. They have my pics and findings - Cheers!
 
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Online gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #128 on: August 12, 2018, 06:59:36 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
Nice mod, though.
 

Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2018, 07:03:32 am »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.

Pace has been making production stations like this for decades, so they are increasingly looking... the same. But this one is blue with better accuracy, calibration free and a very comfy improved cool iron. Plus they lowered the price to make them more affordable.

You can make up all the stories you like but they work great. I've done several difficult repair jobs since receiving mine and they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2018, 02:02:03 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.
 

Online gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #131 on: August 13, 2018, 03:23:07 pm »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2018, 03:55:28 pm »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?
Why do you appear to troll? 6 of your 8 posts are from after you bought a used JBC AD2700.. How's that working out?

I'm not trying to be rude, but Pace has dedicated 50+ years of "Heart" to nothing less than the art of soldering and they actually appear here and comment on the forum. They make a side-step into the mid-tier market with some execution flaws they readily talk about, and all you can do is shoot like it's hay-day in the wild-west.

FWIW, they're weighing-out solutions, but they communicate and care. Tell us please.. what company gives service like we've seen at MikesRadioRepair? (and read viewer comments below the video..)

 
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Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2018, 04:09:57 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.
Do you even understand what it means for an object to pay for itself?
 
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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2018, 05:39:18 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.

I own about a dozen irons and stations from over the last 40 years or so. The first Pace station I used was about 30 years ago. Since then I've worked on gear anywhere up to several hundred thousand bucks in value.

One of the secrets to making as much money as you want in electronics, find something that is broken cheap and repair it. It's a sellers market over here as well due to Australia tax, I've noticed similar in the UK although some local items are cheaper there than here.

The point I'm getting at is, even though I can buy all the junk I like, I'd rather prefer to throw my savings into other more important things. I choose to buy something not just because of the price but because it's good value and going fit a purpose.

I knew the ADS200 was going to do exactly what I wanted (and fit the purpose). You may feel the same way about your JBC AD2700 or have decided to pulled the trigger on the JBC BT2BWA because you like the knobs, and that is ok to.

Now all those are facts, "it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit" is fiction.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 07:34:04 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #135 on: August 13, 2018, 06:22:31 pm »
In any case, if I were you, I would do some "pre-emptive" repair in the station itself, and install a bigger heatsink to the regulator as some other people have already done...  perhaps even a small fan if you live in a hot climate?

If Pace thinks it's an issue they will sort it out.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #136 on: August 13, 2018, 06:35:26 pm »

Why do you appear to troll? 6 of your 8 posts are from after you bought a used JBC AD2700.. How's that working out?
I'm not entirely trolling, there are places on earth with much warmer ambient temperature than Canada (I assume you live there). A fan might actually help... just saying.
Quote
I'm not trying to be rude, but Pace has dedicated 50+ years of "Heart" to nothing less than the art of soldering and they actually appear here and comment on the forum. They make a side-step into the mid-tier market with some execution flaws they readily talk about, and all you can do is shoot like it's hay-day in the wild-west.
I'm sorry , I didn't mean to disrespect your soldering iron. You forgot to mention that it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
(even before you had the chance to try it out for yourself)... I mean, the internet is a big place, but I seem to find your posts telling people to buy Pace everywhere... here, on youtube.  Was it you chastising Louis Rossmann  on his youtube channel for not promoting American products?... Yeah, it was.
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.
Quote
FWIW, they're weighing-out solutions, but they communicate and care. Tell us please.. what company gives service like we've seen at MikesRadioRepair? (and read viewer comments below the video..)
No idea, but I rather have a station that pumps heat at the iron tip, not at some internal heatsink. Nevermind their customer service.
 

Online gabinetex

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #137 on: August 13, 2018, 06:53:18 pm »
I thought this was a "Production", "Military grade", "NASA approved" soldering station...
but in fact, it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit.
they virtually paid for themselves before they even got through the door.

oh, I see. I suspected that much.

I own about a dozen irons and stations from over the last 40 years or so. The first Pace station I used was about 30 years ago. Since then I've worked on gear anywhere up to several hundred thousand bucks in value.

It's a sellers market over here as well due to Australia tax, I've noticed similar in the UK although some local items are cheaper. One of the secrets to making as much money as you want in electronics find something that is broken cheap and repair it.

The point I'm getting at here is I choose to buy something not because of the price, because I can buy all the junk I want and I would much rather throw my savings into other more important things. I buy something because it's good value and going fit a purpose.

I knew the ADS200 was going to do exactly what I wanted. You may feel the same way about your JBC AD2700 or have decided to pulled the trigger on the JBC BT2BWA because you like the knobs, and that is ok to.

Now all those are facts, "it is increasingly looking like a DIY Soldering Station Kit" is fiction.

Agreed. I was just indulging in a bit of "soldering iron tribalism".
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #138 on: August 13, 2018, 08:22:45 pm »
..it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
That's quite presumptuous of you to know me so well.. maybe now we can be buddies and you might want to think about contributing to EEVblog sometime. FWIW, I'm semi-retired and have wanted to own a good station for ages. I've known about Pace since working for Telefunken in the 70's. As as a kid, I'd buy PE and PM mags when they were in the small format (likely long before you were born).
Who knows my reasons, maybe I'm irritated at cheap Asian fakes and shit-ass quality and want to MAGA even though I live in Canada? Maybe lot of reasons, maybe I'm now beholden to one of the truest companies that felt good-will enough to surprise an old fart with something free that he can pack in his casket when he finally breaths his last resin fumes.. whatever.
I know this much, I used my station all day yesterday at 370c and nothing but the tip ever got hot, while my arthritis has never been better after holding this little beast for over 2 hours total.

And that is where the rubber meets the road..
 
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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #139 on: August 13, 2018, 08:29:47 pm »
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.

Made in the USA (when the company means it) they are trying to keep their business and community employed as much as possible rather than outsourcing the entire operation to China or wherever and living fat. Sure it's national pride if you live in the US, I'm not from the US but it's a more noble cause than buying crap on Alibaba I know that.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:31:35 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 
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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #140 on: August 13, 2018, 08:34:16 pm »
I know this much, I used my station all day yesterday at 370c and nothing but the tip ever got hot, while my arthritis has never been better after holding this little beast for over 2 hours total.

Funny you mention that because I did a rather aggressive test and I couldn't get it hot either. I have a sneaking suspicion some math was used.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #141 on: August 14, 2018, 12:40:49 am »
I'm sorry , I didn't mean to disrespect your soldering iron. You forgot to mention that it's also made in the USA, which is in fact the real reason  you've been telling everyone to buy this station all over the place over the last few months...
(even before you had the chance to try it out for yourself)... I mean, the internet is a big place, but I seem to find your posts telling people to buy Pace everywhere... here, on youtube.  Was it you chastising Louis Rossmann  on his youtube channel for not promoting American products?... Yeah, it was.
If you want to buy American (regardless of the quality) and think everyone else should do the same, just say so. Let's not pretend there is any other reason.
Wow, it takes a special kind of stupid to accuse both an Australian and a Canadian of only choosing this item because of national pride for a made-in-USA product.  :-DD |O :clap:
 
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Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2018, 09:49:05 am »
Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2018, 10:30:01 am »
Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?
I don’t own a Pace myself, but what you describe is exactly how the auto setback on my Ersa i-Con nano works. (When at the setback temp, putting the tip into the brass wool cleaner causes a temperature drop, too, telling it “wake up!”.) It’s not bad, but the one downside is that when it’s decided to begin the drop down to setback and is in the cool off phase, then attempting to use it won’t wake it up, because it’s expecting the temp to drop. A true setback-sensing stand or handle would avoid this problem, and so if I were buying something now, I’d get it with the ISB stand.
 

Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #144 on: August 19, 2018, 10:51:06 am »
I currently own ERSA i-con 1, which has accelerometer built into handle, so as soon as you pick it up (after being idle) it starts heating up. But my ERSA broke down, so I am looking for a replacement.

However, looking at ADS200 user manual, (software) SetBack time can only be set in intervals of tens of minutes, so the lowest possible setting is 10 minutes, which kind of makes it unusable? It would be nice if Pace changed this in firmware so you could also set it to 1 minute, for example.


https://www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/ads200operationmanual816.pdf

 

Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #145 on: August 19, 2018, 05:01:54 pm »
However, looking at ADS200 user manual, (software) SetBack time can only be set in intervals of tens of minutes, so the lowest possible setting is 10 minutes, which kind of makes it unusable? It would be nice if Pace changed this in firmware so you could also set it to 1 minute, for example.

Definitely not unusable, it's only 10 mins and if you clean and tin your tips after completing a section of soldering it shouldn't matter that much. But a good question for Aaron from Pace.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline omglol

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #146 on: August 20, 2018, 09:55:40 pm »
Yeah, it would be nice if Aaron could comment on this. :)
 

Offline PACE-Worldwide

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #147 on: August 21, 2018, 03:57:26 pm »
I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?

Sorry to interrupt the chat.

I am buying the ADS200, but cannot decide if it is worth buying ISB Tool Stand or not? How does the software SetBack timer work? If the temperature of the tip does not change by some amount in some time, the MCU assumes the tool is idle and lowers the temperature?

Hi Guys,

To answer some of your questions about our programmable Auto SetBack feature in ADS200, the feature was never intended to provide an instant idling capability as our ISB (Instant SetBack) Tool Stand does. It’s more of a safety feature intended to shut down the iron when a user goes to lunch or a meeting. If enabled, it also triggers the AutoOff feature, which cuts power to the handpiece, preventing users from leaving a hot iron on overnight or over the weekend.

Auto SetBack uses the internal tip sensor to perceive a period of inactivity (it must not vary more than ±10°F/C) and will set its Tip Temperature to a lower set point after a selectable period of inactivity (from 10-90 minutes in 10-minute increments). Unfortunately, the sensing of inactivity can be affected by many external factors that prevent SetBack from engaging: air conditioning, any type of fan or wind blowing near the iron, the tip accidentally touching an object, a fume extractor functioning nearby … even the shape of a tip can affect whether or not Auto SetBack properly engages. For example, very low mass fine point tips have always proved more difficult to reliably engage the Auto SetBack feature properly: they tend to trigger SetBack even in use because the tips require very little energy to keep running at a steady-state temperature, so the power supply perceives that the iron is inactive. In the case of some of the very large mass tips, the opposite may occur – the iron never engages the SetBack mode. This is because the front of the tip is at a steady ±2°F/C from set temp when it is idle in the Tool Stand, but the sensor is actually seeing a swing fluctuation of over ±10°F/C, striving to keep it at a steady state. I’m not saying the the Auto SetBack feature is unreliable, because in 95+% of all situations, it works perfectly. But I’ve seen enough of the exceptions to know that the better solution is the ISB Instant SetBack Tool Stand, which uses a simple switch to turn on/off SetBack.

The 10 minute increments are intended to simplify operation of the unit. At one point in time, we had a SetBack timer that was programmable in increments of 1 minute intervals, but that scheme was abandoned when customers complained that setting the unit to 1 minute resulted in false alarms when using certain tips. When I set up my ADS200, I use a SetBack setting of 90 minutes and 90 minutes for AutoOff. This assures me the unit will go turn itself off within 3 hours, just in case I leave it on by mistake.

Why didn’t we build an accelerometer into the handle of the TD-200 Iron? We looked at this and cost considerations came up (handle tooling was crazy expensive & complicated), and most other methods required us to add a wire to the Iron’s cord, making it thicker and less flexible. Since there have been customer issues with the flexibility of our cords, we opted for the tried and true ISB Tool Stand, which avoids thickening of the cord. 

All in all, if you are truly interested in saving tip life, it’s a good investment to buy the ADS200 with ISB Stand.

Bestest,

Aaron
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #148 on: August 22, 2018, 02:47:55 am »
The 10 minute increments are intended to simplify operation of the unit. At one point in time, we had a SetBack timer that was programmable in increments of 1 minute intervals, but that scheme was abandoned when customers complained that setting the unit to 1 minute resulted in false alarms when using certain tips. When I set up my ADS200, I use a SetBack setting of 90 minutes and 90 minutes for AutoOff. This assures me the unit will go turn itself off within 3 hours, just in case I leave it on by mistake.

Why do time increments have to be linear?  If I was programming something like that, I might have a sequence that might look like: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 minutes (just an example).
 
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Online Shock

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Re: EEVblog #1106 - Pace ADS200 Soldering Station Review (JBC Killer?)
« Reply #149 on: August 22, 2018, 01:15:38 pm »
Why do time increments have to be linear?  If I was programming something like that, I might have a sequence that might look like: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120 minutes (just an example).

Not specific to this setting but in general unless it is detrimental to the user, configuration should be as flexible as practically possible. That way you keep everyone happy.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 


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