Author Topic: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80  (Read 17007 times)

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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2018, 01:00:24 pm »
Yes, but ehm isn't it about practice?
I understand your point, but like I said, if it won't solder, just bump up the temp a little?  :-//
Who cares if solder iron A is a little off compared to solder iron B.
Only thing I care about is; will it solder?
Well, we are commenting about video after all. As of real world, simply bumping temperature is not and issue if you need to make a few solder joints. However when you are doing many tens and hundreds of them, there is a big difference. Flux starts to burn on the tip and a lot of dross appears. Tip oxidizes and needs tinning done very often.
I agree, but <6-7% in temp difference isn't going to be that significant?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that flux usually burns at temp >450 degrees C

Besides the fact that if you're soldering an awful lot I wouldn't recommend using this tool anyway
So I don't think that's a very valid argument. (tens or hundreds is not an awful lot IMO)

So the TS-80 was better? That's too bad, I bought a TS100 a few weeks ago (it just arrived), thinking that it would be much better than my $30 piece of crap iron (and it is). However, it's a bit inconvenient that I have to have a good power supply nearby with an appropriate barrel jack, the QC3.0 with USB-C iron would have been much more convenient. Oh well, maybe I'll sell the TS100 to someone and order the TS80.

I would have liked to see the video, though, as I always enjoy Dave's analyses (and was surprised the conclusion on the original TS80 video wasn't "it's crap, just get a proper $1000 iron" ;D). Too bad it got taken down.
That really depends on your definition and context of better.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:02:58 pm by b_force »
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Offline Stavros

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2018, 01:12:37 pm »
That really depends on your definition and context of better.

I guess that's true, for the three times I use it per year, I bet the TS100 is more than enough.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2018, 01:30:10 pm »
That really depends on your definition and context of better.

I guess that's true, for the three times I use it per year, I bet the TS100 is more than enough.
More than enough is just about right, lol

In that case I would just buy a cheap Hakko clone. lol  8)

To give people some context.

At work I use a JBC, why?
Well it was just simply there and it's readably available (incl cartridges) at our main supplier.
Time is money, so every minute I look for a different alternative will probably cost us more.

At home I still use my old Hakko clone that I once bought as a student many many many years ago.
I simply didn't have more money at the time and the Hakko clones have at least temp control and different tips.

The JBC is obviously by far a better soldering iron.
But after all these years I actually can't be really bothered to change my Hakko clone.
It does what it does, I can solder 97% of the things totally fine (SMD as well as cables)
Yeah, the tips burn up quickly, but they are cheap and easily available.
Temp control isn't that precise and heat up time as well.
Both aren't the end of the world.
Yes, the JBC is better on every aspect, except prize.

The main reason why I am now very interested in something like a TS100 or TS80, is because I travel a lot.
So I am looking for something small, plus I also want to downsize/declutter a lot.
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Online ckambiselis

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2018, 01:39:31 pm »
Dave since you talked about the tip of the TS80 and it is actually the main concern I have between the TS80 and TS100 (since there aren't any small tips available yet), could you check the polarity of the 3.5mm jack on the TS80, I have access to a Weller micropencil soldering iron that has the same jack interface (RT series of tips), from what I can see the TS80 tip is longer from the jack to the fingerguard of the tip but since the can unscrew the black barrel from the controller that shouldn't be a problem. The Wellers jack to fingerguard, which is actually the grip, is about 14mm and I think it was something like 6mm in diameter and that space could be filled be cutting the barrel that screws off the TS80 or by fabricobling somekind of metal tube.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:46:45 pm by ckambiselis »
 

Offline BBBbbb

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2018, 01:42:39 pm »
I'm done, video removed.
The comments and the rabid fan base for this thing are just unbelievable. People cannot even comprehend things I say  :palm:
I'll still be getting endless comments and email in 12 months time if I leave this up, I don't want to deal with that.
come on Dave, just because of some negative comments... did negative comments stop Batteroo? or Juicero? and those are some really crappy ideas...

Do a followup video if you think something was missed. Ignore or disable comments on the video and filter all mail containing TS100 in the body or title, to spam.

 

Offline woox2k

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2018, 01:48:22 pm »
It's a bit like audiophools, but than like solderironphools (or maybe just gearphools).
Sodderphools  :-DD

Dam, this thread makes me want to buy the TS80. I need an iron that i can take with me and handle soldering medium gauge wires. At first i was considering buying TS100 because it's more powerful but apparently TS80 still beats it in real world scenarios. Lower power spec is pretty much the only thing bad about TS80 and if that isn't all that bad then wheres the question?
I dont even care i could in theory use proper tips with TS100 because would not be my primary iron. Bench/primary irons are whole another thing, better tips are always better there. This iron is not a bench iron one should use as a primary iron anyway and buying expensive tips to drop them onto concrete floor on the field isn't so good idea.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:54:54 pm by woox2k »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2018, 02:02:28 pm »
I'm done, video removed.
The comments and the rabid fan base for this thing are just unbelievable. People cannot even comprehend things I say  :palm:
I'll still be getting endless comments and email in 12 months time if I leave this up, I don't want to deal with that.
come on Dave, just because of some negative comments... did negative comments stop Batteroo? or Juicero? and those are some really crappy ideas...

Do a followup video if you think something was missed. Ignore or disable comments on the video and filter all mail containing TS100 in the body or title, to spam.

I've explained all those points, I won't repeat myself.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2018, 02:22:39 pm »
Are you guys fussing same way on Big Clive blog? The Signal Path blog? Other blogs?

It is just a goddam blog! Why getting a heart attack over what the owner post? Have nothing bettef to do ?
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Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2018, 02:24:52 pm »
So the TS-80 was better? That's too bad, I bought a TS100 a few weeks ago (it just arrived), thinking that it would be much better than my $30 piece of crap iron (and it is). However, it's a bit inconvenient that I have to have a good power supply nearby with an appropriate barrel jack, the QC3.0 with USB-C iron would have been much more convenient. Oh well, maybe I'll sell the TS100 to someone and order the TS80.

I would have liked to see the video, though, as I always enjoy Dave's analyses (and was surprised the conclusion on the original TS80 video wasn't "it's crap, just get a proper $1000 iron" ;D). Too bad it got taken down.
Don't bother with that. The tip Dave used was much smaller and only able to pump about 30% of the rated power. If you use tips of comparable size, it will be about the same or better (especially with larger tips), if you look at the TS80 test in previous video, it really struggled to keep temperature at heater not only solder joint due to low power. TS100 has more power, so with larger tips it will be able to deliver more heat. The only thing I really don't like about TS100 is unergonomic shape of the handle.
Even if heater-tip thermal transfer is not that good for particular tip, you can still just set higher temperature, while TS80 won't be able to keep it even at heater itself due to lack of power.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 02:49:52 pm by wraper »
 

Offline kcozens

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2018, 02:37:57 pm »
I started to watch this video yesterday but had to put it on pause. I came back today to finish watching it only to find its gone. Is it going to be coming back again?
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2018, 02:44:16 pm »
Watch at 3rd minute, TS100 can pull even 80W when powered at higher voltage and with larger tip. While at Dave's test it consumed barely over 20W.
 

Offline MT

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2018, 02:58:47 pm »
Are you guys fussing same way on Big Clive blog? The Signal Path blog? Other blogs?

It is just a goddam blog! Why getting a heart attack over what the owner post? Have nothing bettef to do ?
Yeah! Right! I concur, they have nutting bettef to do the bastlads! :D
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2018, 03:33:29 pm »
So the TS-80 was better? That's too bad, I bought a TS100 a few weeks ago (it just arrived), thinking that it would be much better than my $30 piece of crap iron (and it is).

Did you ever stop to wonder why 10 to 15 different YouTube channels all got free TS100 units around thensame time to review a few months ago? And the way I see it, if it’s free the review isn’t never 100% honest. If you do a bad review on a free time you won’t get anymore free stuff, so never do that or bangood might cut you off.
I questioned the sudden increase in the TS100 reviews. My first thought was the are trying to clear out old stock and using YouTube reviews to drive up the sales knowing something better was going to be released soon.
Maybe good free advertimemts and marketing?
It’s not like they lied to people, its just smart marketing and using amazon/youtube reviewers to drumb up sales on old stock before releasing a new version.
Maybe this is why Dave also got so many comments, a lot of people bought the TS100 in the last couple of months from these reviews and now something better is out?
Do some of these people feel like they were ripped off?
Is this why Dave had so many requests to review the TS100 and TS80 together in the first place?

I watched the other videoss, but skipped this one because he has been doing a lot of soldering iron videos. Now I wish I watched it.
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Offline bctouw

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2018, 06:08:54 pm »
Why did you remove the video?,   this is just what i like about you Dave, All opinion, nothing scripted, remember.

I am a ts100 fanboy also and having a bit of a hard time accepting all of this.
but the build quality IS BETTER !!,   It would be auwsome if the electronics of the TS100 could be combined with the build quality of the ts80.

anyway hope you put the video back up.

BAS
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2018, 06:12:28 pm »
Geez, sorry I missed all the fireworks, and the MIA video!
 

Offline modrobert

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2018, 06:53:43 pm »
Dave,

I kind of miss the old "drop test" videos for multimeters, maybe you could do something similar for TS80 and TS100? Will it survive 20m free fall? Will it blend? 1000V "up its clacker" test? ;)
 

Offline JS

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2018, 06:56:14 pm »
Why did you remove the video?,   this is just what i like about you Dave, All opinion, nothing scripted, remember.

I am a ts100 fanboy also and having a bit of a hard time accepting all of this.
but the build quality IS BETTER !!,   It would be auwsome if the electronics of the TS100 could be combined with the build quality of the ts80.

anyway hope you put the video back up.

BAS
He mentioned something about taking it to the second channel, I didn't understand the reasons but likely to be more intimate to avoid too much hate mail or something...

JS

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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2018, 07:24:50 pm »
I'm done, video removed.
The comments and the rabid fan base for this thing are just unbelievable. People cannot even comprehend things I say  :palm:
I'll still be getting endless comments and email in 12 months time if I leave this up, I don't want to deal with that.

Can you post a few, for laughs? Or weren't they funny?

Maybe there's a video to be made about the comments on that video.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2018, 07:52:23 pm »
https://youtu.be/83STpUXHilk?t=374

Actually you are right. Marco Reps video is super funny by the way.
He found the TS100 to have 20 C lower temperate control and the TS80 to have better soldering performance on the large thermal mass. Presumably not just because of temperature control, but also due to better tip.
But he also shows the TS100 drawing 60W, which made me think you have a problem in your setup (firmware or maybe you got a faulty device).

The odd thing is in his comments, no one seems to be complaining about his methodology or results.

There is still a significant distance with low cross section. It greatly reduces the performance. There is a good reason why JBC has regular and high performance tips of the same size. One offers better accessibility in tight places, other much better heat transfer.
https://www.jbctools.com/cartridges_png/C245-806_datasheet.png
https://www.jbctools.com/cartridges_png/C245-406_datasheet.png

Sure, but the TS100 tip selection is incredibly limited. Perhaps some third party sellers are offering new designs, but if you look at the original six designs maybe two or three are of any use.
Why aren't there multiple width flat chisel tips?

Not in the new design AFAIK. Apparently it takes Hakko tips with some 3D printed adapter?
Only issue is now you get into an endless comparison of different tips types and manufacturers to determine the "winner" in thermal capacity.
And even then, that might not matter a rats arse for most users under most circumstances.
This is why I do the low temperature tests that I do, to push the tips to their lower (impractical) limits in order to see the real differences. Many people don't seem to understand this concept.

I agree a 3d printed adapter is hard to justify discussing. You can purchase a T12 station from china that directly takes T12 tips and costs less than the TS100 if you want to go that route.
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2018, 10:06:08 pm »
Also, didn't Marco Reps(?) review the TS80 and found it outperformed the TS100 also?

Marco Reps used the tried and true formula: "four legs good, two legs better", while you used "four legs bad, two legs good", which is suicide when you want to minimize objections.

TS-100 is good, TS-80 is better explains why Marco Reps' review is alive.

TS-100 is bad, TS-80 is good explains why you had to shoot yourself in the head and take the video down.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 10:07:59 pm by bsfeechannel »
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2018, 10:49:08 pm »
https://youtu.be/83STpUXHilk?t=374

Actually you are right. Marco Reps video is super funny by the way.
He found the TS100 to have 20 C lower temperate control and the TS80 to have better soldering performance on the large thermal mass. Presumably not just because of temperature control, but also due to better tip.
But he also shows the TS100 drawing 60W, which made me think you have a problem in your setup (firmware or maybe you got a faulty device).

The odd thing is in his comments, no one seems to be complaining about his methodology or results.



I think it is because he has done two things. First he doesn't talk down to his audience and dare them to disagree. You see what he sees and you are left to calmly draw your own conclusions. Second and importantly he has made an effort to make something of value to enjoy.

Everyone wants to be treated with the proper respect.
Why I like his videos is also because he sees potential in most things.
Aka; the tweaking mentality is still there.
So he even gives cheap gear a change, maybe hack a bit or see possibilities.
If that still doesn't work he mostly lets the viewer decided (well obviously with a bit of his own opinion)
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Offline SodaAnt

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2018, 01:01:18 am »
And the way I see it, if it’s free the review isn’t never 100% honest.

Does that make pretty much every eevblog test equiptment review less than 100% honest then? Considering he gets many multi-thousand dollar scopes for free to review (and possibly gets to keep them as well).

I think reviews of free stuff can be unbiased, but it requires disclosing that the item was received for free, and keeping cost in mind more than one usually would (since you didn't actually pay for it).
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2018, 01:38:39 am »
Also, didn't Marco Reps(?) review the TS80 and found it outperformed the TS100 also?
Marco Reps used the tried and true formula: "four legs good, two legs better", while you used "four legs bad, two legs good", which is suicide when you want to minimize objections.
TS-100 is good, TS-80 is better explains why Marco Reps' review is alive.
TS-100 is bad, TS-80 is good explains why you had to shoot yourself in the head and take the video down.

If you actually watched the video, I also praised the TS100 and said it was good. I said buy whatever one suits your needs from a power POV.
 

Offline Cody Turner OKC

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2018, 01:39:15 am »
Nice kid brings cookies to some kids at the park, they ungratefully take and eat the cookies.. as kid is leaving they decide those free cookies didn't taste good enough, and continue on to go beat the crap out of the kid and laugh in his face, "next time you decide to go out of your way to do something for us, you better do it better, because WE know whats best for you.." TS100 fanboys.. its a soldering iron.  |O |O |O
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2018, 01:43:49 am »
Why did you remove the video?

Read the thread, sorry but I will not repeat myself again.
 


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