Author Topic: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80  (Read 17066 times)

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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2018, 02:02:31 am »
Wow, the comments and emails just won't stop on this one.

People actually write you personal emails about your videos?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2018, 02:54:52 am »
You sound surprised.

I can believe that all too easily.  When people are highly charged with emotion (both positive and negative), they can be motivated to make contact in any form possible to "connect" with the author.

I'd hate to think how many emails Dave has scored from his Youtube efforts.
 

Offline GuidoK

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2018, 02:59:59 am »
TBH I thought it was a bad review, mainly because Dave didnt inform himself enough.
Not knowing how the stand works, pointing out the wrong spot for the earth screw, even if its labelled/embossed on the housing, and making mistakes about interchangebility on the soldering points (ok, thats a complicated one I admit but Dave is a pro). These were things easily avoided.
The only smart thing he said in the review was (imho) how good the ts-80 would be if it had both the usbC and barrel jack. Because there is a large TS-100 fanbase that uses the iron because of the barrel jack and not having to rely on the (complicated) USB C interface. Every RC enthousiast in the field (drone/boat/plane/car/etc) usually has a simple power source (car battery, charger/adapter, lipo power pack etc), but not a complicated USBC current source. He'd have to take that with him as an extra. A barrel jack lead to whatever powersource you want to use is very easy to make. USBC not so much.

The thermo design of the TS-80 tips is probably better when I looked at the comparison, although not the same tips used (the TS-100 also has a very large tip available (TS-C4 tip) comparable to that huge TS-80 chisel. It would be better to test that before hammering down on the superiority of the ts-80 tips. Better to know for sure I think.
If it is really better, then I hope they're going to make ts-80 style tips for the ts-100. That shouldnt be too difficult I think.

I also wonder if the ts-80 tip with the 3,5mm barrel jack doesnt turn easily with chisel and drag tips. Of course the handle is totally round but I like the buttons and screen on top and I wonder if you install the tip that way it wont rotate during use. I guess thats what the screw is for on the ts-100. You can put the tips in fine without the screw similar to the ts80 but I wonder if that has the same ergonomics.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 03:06:24 am by GuidoK »
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2018, 06:03:35 am »
Also, didn't Marco Reps(?) review the TS80 and found it outperformed the TS100 also?
Marco Reps used the tried and true formula: "four legs good, two legs better", while you used "four legs bad, two legs good", which is suicide when you want to minimize objections.
TS-100 is good, TS-80 is better explains why Marco Reps' review is alive.
TS-100 is bad, TS-80 is good explains why you had to shoot yourself in the head and take the video down.

If you actually watched the video, I also praised the TS100 and said it was good. I said buy whatever one suits your needs from a power POV.

Yes, I watched the video. At least 2/3 of it. Until it inexplicably stopped and then vanished.

In fact, I watched almost all your videos, since EEVblog #1. Some of them more than once. Some of them, many times.

But if you really praised the TS-100, then we need to find another explanation as to why one review went so smoothly and the other did not. Given the same "rabid" fanboys have watched both reviews.

So, let's investigate.

Being such an avid EEVblog viewer, I learned how to ponder your opinions. In fact you taught me that on EEVBlog #22 (6:39):

I got a rather interesting comment once, in fact I've had more than once in various forms, but the comment was basically: how do we know you're RIGHT? How  can we take your word for it? On, you know, all these things and all these topics? And, well, you know, it's a really good question, and the answer is you SHOULDN'T. You should never take anyone's word for it. Don't take anything i say on these blogs as gospel. Uh, you know, I've been in the industry for 20 years so, you know, I like to think I do know what I'm talking about mostly. But, you know, don't take my word for it. All my blogs, and all the things I talk about on here are designed to be food for thought. You're supposed to use your own engineering judgment and, you know, and go out and verify things. If you're, you know, if you're really interested in something, don't complain that i didn't explain it right or and you know i might have got it a bit wrong or something like that. Go out and investigate for yourself. That's what it's all about: food for thought.

But I guess not everybody in your audience is "trained" to entertain your opinions without accepting them, to paraphrase Aristotle.

Maybe the fact that you made some harsh comments about the TS-100 before praising it made people disregard your final verdict.

My impression is that Marco Reps, by showing how the TS-80 was better than the TS-100, without saying any negative comments, tacitly showed the deficiencies of TS-100.

Anyway, I'm just trying to find a way out of this perplexity.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2018, 06:21:41 am »
My impression is that Marco Reps, by showing how the TS-80 was better than the TS-100, without saying any negative comments, tacitly showed the deficiencies of TS-100.
Anyway, I'm just trying to find a way out of this perplexity.

There is no need to analyse this, it's a simple (or maybe not so simple) combination of people not watching the whole video and comprehending what I said before commenting, that it was more just a quick first-use playaround comparison than a review (yes, call it "lazy" if you want), that I didn't have a correct comparable tip, that I put it on the main EEVblog channel when it should have been on EEVblog2 (I tried to "polish a turd" in editing basically), and mix in some fanboyism of TS100 and bingo, you get the defensive and sometimes attacking responses. Small things just added up to a comment frenzy.
No biggie, I just pulled the video and problem solved, like I've done a few times in the past for similar reasons.
Whether or not I'll do it again, I don't know, for now I couldn't be bothered ordering a TS100 and tips to re-do it, my motivation isn't high for a product that is basically an old design now.
I just ordered a knockoff FX-951 as I think that's a more interesting video to make than validating the TS100 to the countless people who already own it and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2018, 06:23:16 am »
Wow, the comments and emails just won't stop on this one.
People actually write you personal emails about your videos?

Yes, I get a lot of email. I try to reply to them when possible.
I'll still get emails about a video from 8 years pointing out issues, that's the life of a Youtuber.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2018, 09:45:09 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//
They look more like two different products to me.
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline kd6oji

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2018, 11:14:39 am »
Dave, I admire your resolve on this, and I agree with you. You have never pulled any punches with anything you have reviewed, whether it be a cheap farting toy or a $15k scope. That is one of the things we who have watched you for years enjoy. I too get blasted for attempting to help people in my own way, and I have flat refused to do it anymore, it is draining and unproductive. If they don't like it, they are free to do so, but I guarantee you that you have more fans out here than some portable soldering iron. Keep up the great work! Best to you and the family.
 

Offline Fellonium

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2018, 12:17:29 pm »
Even though I'm very much a noob member here, I'd still like to throw in an opinion.

After having read the thread, I understand Dave not wanting to deal with the hassle of fanbois. I did not actually get to see the video as it was still in my queue of things to watch (I'm busy enough that I can't just watch whatever comes out on youtube whenever it comes out). After reading this thread it seems the outcome was not what would have been expected and the hassle of dealing with that was too much.

I personally don't think that's a valid reason to remove the video tough, as doing that is fairly close what to what the fanbois wanted. Removing it can very easily be misconstrued as it being a bad review that had faulty reasoning and as such had to be removed. Nobody is going to read this thread to find out any actual reason unless they are avid eevblog followers.

In my experience, giving in to peer pressure (or equivalent) is always a bad thing unless you are actually proven wrong. So I'm a bit sad that this happened. I do understand why Dave did it, I don't agree with it though. There must be better ways of dealing with fanboi madness than simply removing whole videos. If you're right, you're right, if you're not, you're not. Removing a video feels like ignoring the issue because it makes life easier. That should not be the way issues are dealt with. While I know a youtube video is not a critical thing, if this happened irl (ex. work/politics/etc...) people would be reeling over a decision like that.

Either way, thumbs up to Dave.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2018, 07:43:39 pm »
TBH I thought it was a bad review, mainly because Dave didnt inform himself enough.
Not knowing how the stand works, pointing out the wrong spot for the earth screw, even if its labelled/embossed on the housing, and making mistakes about interchangebility on the soldering points (ok, thats a complicated one I admit but Dave is a pro). These were things easily avoided.

You really think this is an acceptable stand?
Anyway from the pictures the newer ones seem to come with the metal credit card stand, which is a bit better.

edit: apparently it clips in place which is a good idea.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 11:09:23 pm by thm_w »
 

Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #85 on: August 22, 2018, 07:48:14 pm »
You really think this is an acceptable stand?
Anyway from the pictures the newer ones seem to come with the metal credit card stand, which is a bit better.
For portable use I don't see anything wrong with it. Actually you can throw iron anywhere without fear that small stand will accidentally fall, which is good when you are working on site.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #86 on: August 22, 2018, 10:57:48 pm »
I actually like the stand.
It clicks on, it's simple it does its job
What else does one need?
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline JS

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #87 on: August 23, 2018, 12:22:04 am »
Why did you remove the video?

Read the thread, sorry but I will not repeat myself again.
Dave, a suggestion, let the video as unlisted and post the link here, you alredy made it, it does hold its worth for someone but the people who got to this thread wouldn't be so fanatic in their reaction to the video, compared to open youtube.

JS
 PS: I did watch the video in time, I think mine is the forst comment on this thread, and I acctually think there's something useful in the video for anyone in the look for one of those or any portable soldering iron.
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline jeffheath

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #88 on: August 23, 2018, 07:01:00 am »
I couldn't believe the comments section of that video! How can people get so beat up over a soldering iron??? I'm more of a lurker here, but I just had to post because I couldn't believe it got so bad it had to be taken down! :wtf: I thought I had lost my mind, looking through my comments history to see my comments just... vanished!
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #89 on: August 23, 2018, 08:33:20 am »
Anyone who really wants to watch the video can still go over to Bitchute and watch it there.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/3i499BC51xs/

I still don't think it is a good review. I'd suggest waiting to see if Dave decides to rework it.
Thanks wilfred.
I'm only quoting you so you can't delete this post.....along with all your other ones.  :-//
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #90 on: August 23, 2018, 10:49:14 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #91 on: August 23, 2018, 11:09:54 am »
In my experience, giving in to peer pressure (or equivalent) is always a bad thing unless you are actually proven wrong. So I'm a bit sad that this happened. I do understand why Dave did it, I don't agree with it though. There must be better ways of dealing with fanboi madness than simply removing whole videos.

I can ignore comments, I can delete comments, and I can block people, there are options.
But I don't like doing those things, and when I know that I will continue to get comments and email for years to come on this, it's just not worth it.

Quote
If you're right, you're right, if you're not, you're not.

I was right, but the problem is I will have to continue to explain that to people for years to come. I don't want to do that.
That happens with other videos too, but it's not to the same extent. I know when a video will continue to be a dumpster fire for years to come, I don't need or want that.

Quote
Removing a video feels like ignoring the issue because it makes life easier.

It does.
When you have a Youtube channel with half a million subscribers you'll understand.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 11:11:54 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #92 on: August 23, 2018, 11:10:39 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
To some extend, yes.
But it also has less maximum power.
Are there already other cartridges (with bigger tips) available?

Enclosure design is more subjective.
Don't see what's wrong with plastic.
Pretty much every multimeter is made out of plastic?  :-//
Isolates well, scratch marks are less visible and it has better electrical and thermal isolation.
(in case of some kind of failure).

I do understand your point that aluminium feels better.
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline bodger

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #93 on: August 23, 2018, 11:13:58 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.

Additionally, it was marked "TS200 V1.6" on the PCB as shown in Marco Reps video. I don't understand why they've called the product TS80. Unless they are going to make a TS100 upgrade that uses the same tips. So you end up with a "budget" line and the new tips as a premium product.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #94 on: August 23, 2018, 11:15:36 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
To some extend, yes.
But it also has less maximum power.
Are there already other cartridges (with bigger tips) available?

Yes, there is at least one bigger tip.

Quote
Enclosure design is more subjective.
Don't see what's wrong with plastic.

If you held both of then you'll feel the difference in durability. There is no contest.

Quote
Pretty much every multimeter is made out of plastic?  :-//

Vastly thicker plastic in a much more solid tongue and groove arrangement held firmly together with screws and usually in a rubber surround. Chalk and cheese.

Quote
Isolates well, scratch marks are less visible and it has better electrical and thermal isolation.
(in case of some kind of failure).

In this case you don't want thermal isolation, you want the internal heat to dissipate out efficiently.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2018, 11:44:03 am »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.

Additionally, it was marked "TS200 V1.6" on the PCB as shown in Marco Reps video. I don't understand why they've called the product TS80. Unless they are going to make a TS100 upgrade that uses the same tips. So you end up with a "budget" line and the new tips as a premium product.
That would actually make a lot more sense.

I just found it weird to call it a successor.
If that was the case they would just simply keep most of it, only change the cartridge mount and maybe the case.
The price difference is pretty significant as well.

I don't know (but find it very likely) that similar style HAKKO cartridges are patented.
So it could also be that they are looking for some options to prevent any issues in the future.
Just guessing/brainstorming here.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 11:46:24 am by b_force »
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Online wraper

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2018, 12:06:51 pm »
I don't understand why people keep saying that the TS80 is the successor?  :-//

Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
This is the only thing I really don't agree with. And you rightfully got some grilling for this. I don't agree with fanboy whining but criticizing was completely justified. Tip which was used on TS100 has extremely different thermal capacity. Heck even when I compare tips similar to those two on my Ersa I-Con, results are like night and day in similar test. Comparing them is simply ridiculous. Frankly you probably would get more heat even from conical tip. It still amazes me how you still don't realize that your test was very flawed when you could not pull more than 30% of the TS100 rated power. At least you could somewhat mitigate thermal resistance of the tip by cranking temperature on both so TS100 at least could push more power and see which can deliver maximum heat.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #97 on: August 23, 2018, 12:55:23 pm »
Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
This is the only thing I really don't agree with. And you rightfully got some grilling for this. I don't agree with fanboy whining but criticizing was completely justified.

Marco Reps confirmed my finding, the TS80 performs better.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #98 on: August 23, 2018, 01:19:49 pm »
Because it has demonstrably better thermal and tip design, and enclosure design. It is most certainly an evolved product.
This is the only thing I really don't agree with. And you rightfully got some grilling for this. I don't agree with fanboy whining but criticizing was completely justified.

Marco Reps confirmed my finding, the TS80 performs better.
Yes, but the point that was being made, was that it was still with different tips.
So one could argue that you're basically testing out different tips than anything else.
Which I believe is exactly the point wraper is trying to make?

On the other hand, you buy it as a whole product.
So even if it's not comparing apples with apples, in the end the consumer doesn't have much choice.
I guess just using the word "better" or "winner" can be interpret differently and might be a little misleading?
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1116 - TS100 vs TS80
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2018, 01:29:38 pm »
Yes, but the point that was being made, was that it was still with different tips.
So one could argue that you're basically testing out different tips than anything else.
Which I believe is exactly the point wraper is trying to make?

No need to make that point, I said and explained that in the video!

Quote
I guess just using the word "better" or "winner" can be interpret differently and might be a little misleading?

Again, I explained that in the video!

You see, this is why I pulled the video. People don't watch it properly, people don't understand what the video was and wasn't, people don't comprehend what I'm saying properly, people aren't able to work in anything but absolutes.
This is why I removed the video, I don't want to have to explain this over and over and over again. I made a mistake trying to make some quick content originally intended for EEVblog2 into a main channel video, it failed, and I've pulled the video. I'm done, it's gone.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 01:32:43 pm by EEVblog »
 


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