EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: Kiriakos-GR on September 18, 2010, 08:45:18 pm
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Great tests , at list about the Fluke 87-5 we certainly know now , the guilty frequency ...
In my hole I have also GSM network , and as more difficult the area , the mobile transmits with higher watts so to help for an balanced communication.
It was an big surprise that 3G has no effect , but at the end of the day , you never know what type of network your mobile are up to , because it switches all the time by it self ..
Because of my hole , I had switch manually on GSM .
Testing other DMM at the same condition was very reviling also.
Oh my I was screaming Dave in all the video , like ........... take the damn phone away ......
Amazingly it did not bricked .
But believe it or not , you was close enough .
I did not had the chance to do such testing on my DMM , by getting my mobile phone close to it ,
in just 15 seconds it turned off , and become an brick .
If some one cares to spot the deference's , he must visit the specific thread link
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1251.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1251.0)
It could be the revision of the DMM it self ..
Some 87-5 to be more sensitive to fail than others .... who knows..
I posted high resolution pictures at the page 4 .
My congratulations about the video , its so reviling , and a great confirmation , about the problem.
Lets hope that the company , it will stand on the side of the people.
Starting by helping me out , and anyone in need, because of this specific issue ..
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Maybe this is just an unlikely occurrence, and Kiriakos was unlucky. Or maybe it depends on exact frequency (different countries use different frequencies for GSM) or power (the farther from the power, the higher the transmit power).
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i would say it depends on the exact frequency as the meter is clearly "tuned" also I bet dave in closer to his cell than kiriakos is, I know in Italy cell stations were not as many as I see here in the Uk and there were known spots with no signal (I had a lot of "fun" getting my mobile onto the 3G network to use it as a modem) so kiriakos's phone was probably transmitting more power. of course it might depend on the specific model for power
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Some one could see the glass of water as half full , and another one as half empty .
I believe that my V600 ( Vodafone ) or K600 as internationally are known, Sony Ericsson ,
its impossible to be called as murderer of multimeter's !!
The negative influence of the GSM over the Fluke 87-5 its all that matters.
If it will become bricked or not has an second importance .
In the factory that I work , when we do electrical tests , or testing wired phone lines,
its common the two technicians to be on different locations , and to work and speak with their mobile phones , in order to synchronize their job.
If any DMM can coexist with those technicians , and the 87-5 cannot , this is the major issue.
Another thing that does have an major importance are the reaction of Fluke, about it.
I am aware that all the eyes are on my case right now , waiting for the official reaction of Fluke.
The plan are the DMM to be shipped from my town to Athens on Monday 20 September,
it will be delivered at the Authorized center in 48 hours max , so the calendar reads 22 of September .
If it moves right away to Holland , the next Monday or Tuesday ( 27 - 28 ) I will probably have some News .
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Aman, aman - Love, Joy, Sorrow... I hope it goes back to Joy for you :)
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If any DMM can coexist with those technicians , and the 87-5 cannot , this is the major issue.
I agree, it's a major issue. GSM phones are so common that it is simply unacceptable that a product like this (and with high such a high and long standing reputation) has problems with it.
It's likely just some amazing coincidence that some PCB trace and/or combination of component(s) happens to be susceptible at the GSM frequency in a vulnerable part of the circuit.
I'd be very surprised if Fluke do not take this issue very seriously.
Dave.
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Aaaw! I just remembered something!
Way back when I read about a cell jammer on LadyAda's site, the wavebubble (http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/).
Maybe we can see if she or someone in her community has the desire and equipment to look into this further?
She/they might find it interesting anyway, and we may find an RF guru who can help if Fluke leaves folks in the cold (as unlikely as that is).
That is, if there's more to fixing things than adding tinfoil to the shielding. :)
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Testing other DMM at the same condition was very reviling also.
Oh my I was screaming Dave in all the video , like ........... take the damn phone away ......
Amazingly it did not bricked .
What do you mean by brick? The multimeter was permanently rendered useless? Or it was just "disabled" in the presence of the phone?
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What do you mean by brick? The multimeter was permanently rendered useless? Or it was just "disabled" in the presence of the phone?
As technician in the field , Both cases stops me from doing my job ...
So the description in words has an secondary value .
As viewer of the test , I would describe as bricked the " The multimeter was permanently rendered useless " explanation .
The problems caused by the interference , its how it starts !! as cause .
How the multimeter will respond to that , no one can tell .
It can survive or die ..
Its like to throw an arrow on some one with out shield , 50/50 % of surviving after it or not .
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Aman, aman - Love, Joy, Sorrow... I hope it goes back to Joy for you :)
Yes I hope to that too , just wrote an informative reply to http://www.fluke.gr/contact.html (http://www.fluke.gr/contact.html) Fluke Greece
By Informing mister George Zis owner of the company , with all the related information,
about my multimeter status ( text & video ) .
And about the EEV-BLOG , and the video of David L. Jones , that his video are an major contribution that helps my case , and FLUKE so to improve the 87-5, so to become " EMI Safe " .
From today and on, this thread had become officially know to FLUKE Greece and to mister George Zis partner of " FLUKE Europe BV " http://www.fluke.nl/comx/default.aspx?locale=nlnl (http://www.fluke.nl/comx/default.aspx?locale=nlnl)
And so, at an formal level as Kiriakos Triantafyllou , I will welcome any response from them .
As feedback in this thread .
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Testing other DMM at the same condition was very reviling also.
Oh my I was screaming Dave in all the video , like ........... take the damn phone away ......
Amazingly it did not bricked .
What do you mean by brick? The multimeter was permanently rendered useless? Or it was just "disabled" in the presence of the phone?
Yes, his unit was permanently rendered useless, see the photos and video earlier in the thread. It looks as though it killed the firmware.
Dave.
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Maybe this is just an unlikely occurrence, and Kiriakos was unlucky. Or maybe it depends on exact frequency (different countries use different frequencies for GSM) or power (the farther from the power, the higher the transmit power).
unlikely occurrence u say? i have a China Uni-T that easily passed this test and others cheapo tested by dave in his video. now with this super expensive DMM, unlikely occurence you say? for a reputable resourcefull company like that... they should eliminate (or at least attenuate) ALL the EMI, not an "unlikely occurence". that word only acceptable for low china and cheapo products.
ps: three people already confirm this issue including Mr Dave.
I was talking about the bricking. So far Dave (or anyone else) has been unable to reproduce the permanent bricking, just the temporary interference (which sucks, but is not as big a deal). So it looks like it's either unlikely (eg. the phone must be transmitting during the 1ms than the system does an EEPROM write) or depends on some circumstances that were different in Kiriakos case. If you're looking for someone defending Fluke in this case, that's not me. But don't let these facts ruin a perfectly good rant.
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So far all the other tests have been done with Nokia phones (I don't think iPhones will take over the world anytime soon ;) ) whereas Kiriakos had a Sony-Ericsson. We also don't know what signal strength was emitted from his or other phones, what frequency was used, etc. etc. etc. I suspect at this point only Fluke or some other well equipped lab will be able to conduct the tests needed to determine the issue but I'll bet all the input from EEVBlog will give them a great place to start. Kudos to you all!
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I was talking about the bricking. So far Dave (or anyone else) has been unable to reproduce the permanent bricking, just the temporary interference (which sucks, but is not as big a deal).
After all those evidence and user reports , I do not think that Users or better, the Fluke 87-5 owners ,
are thinking to push their luck , with extended tests , so to prove the all ready proven ..
So it looks like it's either unlikely (eg. the phone must be transmitting during the 1ms than the system does an EEPROM write) or depends on some circumstances that were different in Kiriakos case.
circumstances like that I did black magic ? or Voodoo .. :P
If you're looking for someone defending Fluke in this case, that's not me. But don't let these facts ruin a perfectly good rant.
By my opinion , the good rand , has an value if it is 100% honest too .
The reliability of the 87-5 it got permanently injured after our findings ...
The reliability of Fluke its still intact , its their job or responsibility to contribute with an fair resolution.
The good rant of Dave , made me too , to add this specific multimeter in my wish list.
But he was not aware at that time, about this problem !! so to report it .
By his new Video, his is reporting the problem , and this is an act of honesty,
an proof of his own integrity as an not biased Video blogger .
After all this I feel 100 times more proud of being an member,
in an such " hard to find " unbiased Video Blog .
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I suspect at this point only Fluke or some other well equipped lab will be able to conduct the tests needed to determine the issue but I'll bet all the input from EEVBlog will give them a great place to start. Kudos to you all!
Totally agree , and I expect also and an technical solution , as fix - hardware upgrade pack ..
In this forum we are people who cares and respects such tools , and we count on their performance.
With out an true permanent fix from FLUKE , the same problem will be here and tomorrow and the day after ,and in the years to come !!
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unlikely occurrence u say? i have a China Uni-T that easily passed this test and others cheapo tested by dave in his video. now with this super expensive DMM, unlikely occurence you say? for a reputable resourcefull company like that... they should eliminate (or at least attenuate) ALL the EMI, not an "unlikely occurence". that word only acceptable for low china and cheapo products.
ps: three people already confirm this issue including Mr Dave.
I was talking about the bricking. So far Dave (or anyone else) has been unable to reproduce the permanent bricking, just the temporary interference (which sucks, but is not as big a deal). So it looks like it's either unlikely (eg. the phone must be transmitting during the 1ms than the system does an EEPROM write) or depends on some circumstances that were different in Kiriakos case. If you're looking for someone defending Fluke in this case, that's not me. But don't let these facts ruin a perfectly good rant.
3 people publicly informed they have tested it, 1 guy bricking it, so... so far the odd is 33.33333% chances of bricking it. from statistical point of view, we need more participants in testing their Fluke87V, and see how much bricking occurs. thats probably gives us more reliable figure, isnt it? so if we believe more on Dave's video than Kiriakos's claim, then anyone can pretty much sure they can do the test safely... ??? are we man enough? ;D me? i dont have the 87V to test, so i shouldnt be in the list :P Cheers ;)
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Personally I will stick with Dave's public advice ,
DO NOT try it at all .. Currently there is no any written warranty plan, to cover the repair of an such event.
And so , I can only speak about what happens today , the tomorrow its not here yet .
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circumstances like that I did black magic ? or Voodoo .. :P
You know that black magic is not covered under warranty, right ;)? No, more like cell phone frequency, signal strength or type/location of antenna on the phone.
By my opinion , the good rand , has an value if it is 100% honest too .
This was a response to shafri, not to you or Dave. I haven't expressed any doubt in the accuracy of any of the findings, and agree this is a serious issue, since it's a single cell phone, not work on a high-powered transmitter or radar installation (I believe the original complaint was something like that). It's just that it's not as simple as every cell phone call damaging every Fluke 87-5. Dave test seemed more extreme than yours (closer and longer duration, from what I gathered from your statements), yet didn't have the same result.
Personally I will stick with Dave's public advice ,
DO NOT try it at all .. Currently there is no any written warranty plan, to cover the repair of an such event.
There is a written warranty statement (either included with the manual or on a separate piece of paper). Unless it specifically excludes cell phones, it should cover it. It would be seriously damaging to Fluke's reputation if it didn't. But I agree not to tempt faith. The point has been made and I'm sure Fluke will take note of Dave's video. Not much point in bricking more meters.
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I am very happy that we agree by taking in consideration the current solid proofs .
For a minute my mind traveled at our known flag wars , small debates that involves teasing and bragging,
about favorite products and brands , something truly common in all forums .
Thanks for clearing up the smoke ;D
Ok , no more nags , lets see the bright side ..
I just download the EEVblog #112 video in HD 720P , and recorded it on DVD .
And I got my packet ready to go ..
Dave you look good on the TV sets too :D :D :D
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I can eat the DVD disk if it please you , but I can not eat the download link .
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I'm sure Dave won't mind, it's only a copy of what is freely available, there is something called common sense in the world - or is there ?
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You wouldn't think so if you've followed the recent development in copyright law (eg. secret ACTA negotiations) and copyright infringement lawsuits (especially in the US). But I don't think Dave subscribes to the MAFIAA's ideas, so I guess Kiriakos is safe ;).
In my opinion, this should be fine, and I'm sure Dave won't mind bringing it to Fluke's attention (since that was the main point of his blog). Not so sure about the letter of the law (without Dave's permission). I'm not aware if Dave attaches any license like creative commons to the videos, if not, that would mean all rights reserved by default in all signatories of the Berne convention.
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What I like on shafri its all those spontaneous explosions :D
Well , I made the DVD so to show it at my people at work tomorrow .
Other than my friends on the Internet, I have at work about eight electricians teasing me ,
that my super expensive multimeter become toasted .
And their cheapy's could stand four GSM phones transmitting at the same time !!
Fluke are On-line , I am On-line , The Greek Fluke are On-line ,
the forum are On-line , we all are On-line
And as an 42 years old child that I am , if I will have to defended my self in another level,
I would never use this forum as fortress , or foreign material , because I have all ready, my own.
And in Gods name , what is my major claim ? Just an working multimeter ..
If any member of this forum , give an donation of 5$ ,
you can offer me one, with out the help, of any FLUKE . :)
Or even better, I like to have the one that Dave has .... as tested ;D ;D ;D
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I'm sure Dave won't mind, it's only a copy of what is freely available, there is something called common sense in the world - or is there ?
Correctamundo, I don't mind at all.
Good luck Kiriakos!
The Managing Director of Fluke Australia has been notified of the problem, and I asked that he pass it on the "powers-that-be".
We'll see what happens.
Dave.
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Correctamundo, I don't mind at all.
Good luck Kiriakos!
The Managing Director of Fluke Australia has been notified of the problem, and I asked that he pass it on the "powers-that-be".
We'll see what happens.
Dave.
God Bless , Dave ... I will send you an bottle of Tsipouro ( strong drink ) to drink it in my health !! ;D
And because I am aware that the computer systems are part of any warranty system ,
if my serial S/N 10690256 gets registered as fully eligible for warranty starting from April 8 2010,
I would become triple happy ..
After all this joy , its my time for a Tsipouro .. :D
(http://www.agelioforos.gr/files/Kiki%20M/photo_tsipouro.jpg)
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Kiriakos, you have mail.
Fluke have said they'll be sure to get your meter replaced.
Dave.
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Kiriakos, you have mail.
Fluke have said they'll be sure to get your meter replaced.
Dave.
Dave, I am so glad you did the fluke video without it, Kiriakos, would have a hard time defending his claim.
Kiriakos, I hope they replace your with a spanking shiny new baby ;D
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After all this joy , its my time for a Tsipouro .. :D
(http://www.agelioforos.gr/files/Kiki%20M/photo_tsipouro.jpg)
Ahh this makes me thirsty for Greece :) I prefer a good dry Mastixa, maybe I will have to come over soon :)
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Dave is the Godfather of electronics.
He just has to make a call, and it's taken care of :-)
Scott
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Dave is the Godfather of electronics.
He just has to make a call, and it's taken care of :-)
It's 2010, email works a treat! ;D
In fact, all I usually to do is Tweet something these days and things happen! :o
Dave.
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While that is great news for Kiriakos, it does not *solve* his problem of having paid for a meter that is susceptible to rather commonplace EMI. Has there been any mention of getting the *problem* fixed properly?
Regards
Christian
Kiriakos, you have mail.
Fluke have said they'll be sure to get your meter replaced.
Dave.
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While that is great news for Kiriakos, it does not *solve* his problem of having paid for a meter that is susceptible to rather commonplace EMI. Has there been any mention of getting the *problem* fixed properly?
Yes, but it's too early for specifics, Fluke will be looking into it.
Dave.
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put rhe meter in a metal case :P
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Kiriakos, you have mail.
Fluke have said they'll be sure to get your meter replaced.
Dave.
Got it, and I am running like hell to send the DMM ( fast postal service), Got notifications from both, Australia and Greece have all ready communicate about it.
Later the rest ... ;)
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While that is great news for Kiriakos, it does not *solve* his problem of having paid for a meter that is susceptible to rather commonplace EMI. Has there been any mention of getting the *problem* fixed properly?
Yes, but it's too early for specifics, Fluke will be looking into it.
Dave.
I agree, the all story looks like news flash it started here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1251.msg16290#msg16290 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1251.msg16290#msg16290) at 13-09-2010
It took three days to be confirmed , so to stand as an case .
I contacted the Fluke at Holland at 13-09-2010 Holland called Greece at the same day ,
got my first email from them at 14-09-2010 , talk to them at the phone at 15-09-2010 ,
plus three days to be confirmed plus an dead weekend ( full of action for us ;) )
its just 7 days so far ... and the DMM started it travel today , at the seventh day .
Tomorrow its expected to be on Athens ( Fluke ) at midday 21-09-2010 .
Dispatches to Holland at the next day ( they do not have an reason to keep it ) 22-09-2010
At this point I will stop speculating , because I am not aware if they will repair it or replace it.
And about the permanent EMI fix , my instinct tells me that they will need an month to resolve it.
The positive part are that at list there is currently awareness thanks to Dave and the video about the 87-5 , and its the first positive step, on the right direction .
If some one else had proven the issue before I do , my DMM today it would be alive .. vulnerable but alive.
Believe me, at this point its best to have an vulnerable but alive DMM, than a bricked one.
And to have all the time in the world, to wait for the EMI fix .
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Kiriakos, I hope they replace your with a spanking shiny new baby ;D
Aaahh it was shiny and sexy ;D even the one that I had ,
the only deference would be the original screen protector ( speaking about the new one) ,
as I had buy all ready from Ebay about 10 common ones as spares, enough for a life time ... :D :D :D
Thanks friend ..
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Dave is it possible to run some tests over the 28II ?
Other than the GSM , to be tested on 3G and with he other sources that you have test the 87-5 ..
An reply in text will do .
And complete video about EMI tests over the 28II , it would be ever better.
Its up to you , and your available time ..
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Dave is it possible to run some tests over the 28II ?
For your information, I own the 28II and I could not get anything dodgy to happen to it with my phone right next to it whilst making calls. I also tried my wifi box and it was fine next to that when I streamed some video.
I think Dave is right. The problem with the 87V is most likely due to some quirk of the PCB Design which makes it unpredictably susceptible to interference from the phone. That said, I am surprised that the problem was not identified back at the Fluke labs. I understand that they will not have used a mobile phone to apply a specific EMI test to the meter in the manner we've been describing but I'd have thought they would test it across a range of common frequencies for evidence of interference. I've never been involved in these kinds of things so I don't know what sort of product EMI testing actually goes on.
I'll be interested to hear of an announcement from Fluke about this problem to see what they've found.
Brian
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I'll be interested to hear of an announcement from Fluke about this problem to see what they've found.
Brian
I believe that no one will ever see an announcement of what they will found ..
But I will tell you, what I have found ..
Instrument Description:
Fluke 80 Series V Digital Multimeters
Memory Description:
Fluke 83 Series V, 87 Series V, and 88 Series V (83V, 87V, and 88V)
have one memory device:
U4, micro controller, TI MSP430F448, 48kB Flash, 1024B RAM,
contains operating code for the product and calibration constants.
AND
Instrument Description:
Fluke 2x II Digital Multimeters
Memory Description:
Fluke 27II and 28II
have one memory device:
U2, micro controller, TI MSP430F449, 60kB Flash, 2048B RAM,
contains operating code for the product and calibration constants.
Conclusion : anything with the TI MSP430F448 its " sensitive as device " ,
I had describe it, as sweet as possible . ;)
CPU info : 8 MHz CPU incl. 16 Registers
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Wouldn't this be grounds for a recall?
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Wouldn't this be grounds for a recall?
It does , but I can no speak about the size of it .
At the " technical thread about the issue " I posted pictures of my PCB revision !!
An combination of the PCB revision with the micro controller TI MSP430F448,
it could lead in to interesting conclusions.
But I am not going to play the crime inspector ..
I am an professional technician and I need an healthy working tool with out issues what so ever .
Currently the company agreed to offer me the choice of another model.
And I did accept it ..
At the beginning of the next week , I will have more news .
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Conclusion : anything with the TI MSP430F448 its " sensitive as device " ,
That "conclusion" is simply bullshit. I know you write all kinds of junk here to get attention, so I won't waste much time with you. Just because they use the same MCUs doesn't mean they have then same susceptibility. You ignored basic things like shielding or the PCB layout.
If you ignored these basic things intentionally, then you are a troll.
If you ignored them unintentionally, then you are clueless.
Whatever it is, your "conclusion" is laughable.
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Every one are free to use this information as he likes ...
I am not an God , but this is the only specs that are widely known ..
If you have an better opinion than my , let us have it ..
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Kiriakos, make sure to let us know when you get your shiny new Fluke 28!
Dave.
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Wouldn't this be grounds for a recall?
Well, I guess that's the million dollar question.
The world's most popular multimeter that is a susceptible to the world's most popular gadget... who thinks that's grounds for a recall?
Extech didn't recall their pocket multimeter, and it was capable of killing someone!
Dave.
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They could SMS a recall notice and brick your phone in the process ;D
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Ok maybe this is not the right place to put it... but I turned on youtube auto transcribe and it is hilariously political...
(http://bsd.ee/~olev/transcribe_1.jpg)
(http://bsd.ee/~olev/transcribe_2.jpg)
(http://bsd.ee/~olev/transcribe_3.jpg)
(http://bsd.ee/~olev/transcribe_4.jpg)
(http://bsd.ee/~olev/transcribe_5.jpg)
Had no time for more screenshots (and coworkers where looking why I was laughing), but it continues on the same path...
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Every one are free to use this information as he likes ...
I am not an God , but this is the only specs that are widely known ..
If you have an better opinion than my , let us have it ..
you are getting mature as Dave's has, i hope i will be too ;D actually someone here also reported that PIC is susceptible to EMI and want to build a Faraday Cage, sorry cant remember whos our pal is, you may find it yourself in this forum. So maybe Fluke has missed some basic thing such as shielding.
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Kiriakos, make sure to let us know when you get your shiny new Fluke 28!
Dave.
I will do that 100% :D
It just that , I am just a bit confused , because the Fluke Greece , told me that there is on the Fluke system , an replacement DMM ready to shipped as soon the damaged gets to Holland .
( So far so good )
But the replacement will be send from Holland too , and usually its exactly the same model.
( Not as planed, by the representative that I had communicate with !!)
And the bottom line are that I will get an DMM ( Thanks God ) :D ,
but I do not know " what it would be " !! ;D
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Every one are free to use this information as he likes ...
I am not an God , but this is the only specs that are widely known ..
If you have an better opinion than my , let us have it ..
you are getting mature as Dave's has, i hope i will be too ;D actually someone here also reported that PIC is susceptible to EMI and want to build a Faraday Cage, sorry cant remember whos our pal is, you may find it yourself in this forum. So maybe Fluke has missed some basic thing such as shielding.
Thanks for identifying my true human side and motives ..
1) I am an technician and when I am having an conversation, I am thinking that I do that with people knowledgeable enough to comment , and even to find me as wrong , if I am so .
2) I have no hate in me for any brand , but I admit that I have my own likes and dislikes ,
like any one has.
3) I do not have any reason to flame FLUKE , the opposite ... I am an poor man that I did discover the FLUKE products at my second youth ( 42 years old ) , end even if I nag about their pricing I had buy an pile of their accessories and the DMM . (Picture at the bottom that excludes the three bench type DMM that I own too )
4) This is not an court of law , so to decide what got wrong about the 87-5 ,
its possible the fault to be at the side of the company who supplied this chips to FLUKE !!
5) and last , if any one finds the way that I can cash out my " fame " , I will split the profit 50/50 with him ..
Thanks for reading my rambling and sorry , if it was not needed , but I had to write it .
I am an man with pride ..
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Got email from FLUKE USA before three minutes ,
about the current status , I am getting the 28II in few days ..Its Official. ;D ;D
Dave if you get back to those waterfalls , call me to join you .. hahahaha :D
EEVblog #66 - Death & Destruction of a Fluke Multimeter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ#ws)
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Ok maybe this is not the right place to put it... but I turned on youtube auto transcribe and it is hilariously political...
The auto-translate is hilarious every time!, it just doesn't know how to handle my Australian accent.
Dave.
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Ok maybe this is not the right place to put it... but I turned on youtube auto transcribe and it is hilariously political...
The auto-translate is hilarious every time!, it just doesn't know how to handle my Australian accent.
Dave.
As a deaf person, I find the auto-translate utterly pathetic! (http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/8.gif)
Thank God for a certain Australian made product which helps me hear well enough to follow our Dave ( and https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryAussie (https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryAussie) Angry Aussie too! ) when I use headphones - it must be optimised for the Aussie accent! ;)
I do appreciate that it takes ages ( I think at least 7 time the programme length ) to prepare proper accurate subtitles for TV, DVDs and YouTube videos so what can be done?
If there is a way of transcribing speech to text that works 100% accurately with anyone in real time then will hearing aids and cochlear implants not be needed anymore? (http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/4.gif)
Sorry to be off topic - I admit that the autotranscribe can be funny sometimes. I have just watched our Dave with the CC on and the captions reads like a REALLY bad news night when absolutely NOTHING went right that day!!!! ;D
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I made a quick GSM testing video for the following models. See it yourself! NOTE: I'm using iPhone4 with GSM (NO 3G) and wifi connections is on. The phone is on call for entire video. Sometime you see the blank screen, but sill on call.
- Fluke 83
- Fluke 83V
- Fluke 87
- Fluke 87III
- Fluke 87IV
- Fluke 87V
- Fluke 87V EX
Fluke87V-GSM.mov (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tVpTsqTyiw#ws)
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I made a quick GSM testing video for the following models.
Nop , you did one video to show-of , like many did, many days after of having watch the EEVBlog video.
But unfortunately for them , they did not read all the details in the specific thread ,
so to understand how to force the phone to operate at the max output , and so any test to be worth something !!
True technicians does not care for video productions full of effects and such ...
I am a sinner too , I had just buy the Corel VideoStudio Pro X3 .. ;D
But more than anything , I care about when I will get my replacement DMM ..
At list I am internally satisfied , that I was correct about my opinion --> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1307.msg17369#msg17369 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1307.msg17369#msg17369)
Even if I had accept mixed comments about it !!
And if the 88V gets tested too , this cycle closes for good.
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I made a quick GSM testing video for the following models.
Nop , you did one video to show-of , like many did, many days after of having watch the EEVBlog video.
Sorry, not everyone have extra time. I'm a very busy engineer. This is the best/soonest I can do. Watch it if you care!
True technicians does not care for video productions full of effects and such ...
If you are not too old to learn new technology I would suggest you to try MAC. It took me less than 10 minutes to process this video (well 20 minutes to rendering the HD). I don't feel like talking so texts are the only way to communicate.
But more than anything , I care about when I will get my replacement DMM ..
After all you are just another one of those selfish guys that only care aout yourself ;)
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The hands who was playing with the phone , was not more than 14 years old ,
the hands who was handling the camera , I am unable to tell .
( if you can take the sound off, it looks better ) ;)
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( if you can take the sound off, it looks better ) ;)
I'm sure your computer has a mute button. :P
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@Kiri: relax! give him a break! ;)
@Sema: relax! you'll get used to Kiri's style of talking! ;D
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@shafri For once more time, you came late at the party ... ;D
There is no fire here..
The fire had move out at the FLUKE labs..
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@Sema: relax! you'll get used to Kiri's style of talking! ;D
Which he should better reconsider. It is very obvious he has no clue but is seeking attention.
He is playing classic games, like lashing out and bulling people, then putting up his hands in the air and claiming he did nothing. Or exaggerated statements to stir up shit, then putting up his hands in the air and claiming he did nothing once he got his attention and applause. This is all to establish superiority and opinion leadership.
Another classic game he is playing is to generate envy to establishing superiority. Did you notice that he suddenly started buying multimeters and presenting them here to get attention? Just when Dave repeatedly talked about multimeters. Thats how kids try to establish superiority on the playground, showing other kids that they have greater and better toys, so they can dictate the game.
Did you notice that when someone came here discussing the repair (as opposite to just buying) of a classic Fluke, it was him who lashed out "I don't see any repair", feeling his superiority, his multimeter repair opinion leadership threatened.
And his attention seeking really works out well in this forum. There are lots of people here who are easily impressed by his stupid games. Lots of young people, beginners, looking for a guide and he is leading him by the nose. There is really no point discussing with him. It makes this forum rather unpleasant.
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We use a Fluke 87IV at work and it's a relief to know that it is immume to GSM. Not that we need to use a GSM phone in a hospital with all that electronic medical equipment inside.... :)
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@Sema: relax! you'll get used to Kiri's style of talking! ;D
Which he should better reconsider. It is very obvious he has no clue but is seeking attention.
He is playing classic games, like lashing out and bulling people, then putting up his hands in the air and claiming he did nothing. Or exaggerated statements to stir up shit, then putting up his hands in the air and claiming he did nothing once he got his attention and applause. This is all to establish superiority and opinion leadership.
Another classic game he is playing is to generate envy to establishing superiority. Did you notice that he suddenly started buying multimeters and presenting them here to get attention? Just when Dave repeatedly talked about multimeters. Thats how kids try to establish superiority on the playground, showing other kids that they have greater and better toys, so they can dictate the game.
Did you notice that when someone came here discussing the repair (as opposite to just buying) of a classic Fluke, it was him who lashed out "I don't see any repair", feeling his superiority, his multimeter repair opinion leadership threatened.
And his attention seeking really works out well in this forum. There are lots of people here who are easily impressed by his stupid games. Lots of young people, beginners, looking for a guide and he is leading him by the nose. There is really no point discussing with him. It makes this forum rather unpleasant.
I'd sort of agree but also understand how kiriakos can be misunderstood as I understand his attitude having lived in a Mediterranean country myself for 14 years but then i never liked anyone's attitude out there which is why i got away as fast as i could
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The only people that I do not need around me right now,
are the cheap psychology analysts, and fortune tellers.
Still this problematic behavior are understandable ..
Some people they act weird when some one proves them wrong,
or bring down the pants of their idol ..
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Relax Kiri. Your DMM is going to be just fine, just wait patiently until it arrives, i know how it fell. Dont worry, when it arrives, we can discuss a new way to hack the 87V or the 28II model and then, we can prove something to the world, OK? (rubbing back) ;D
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Trust me I know how differences in culture and language barriers (or partial barriers) can cause international fireworks, I haven't forgotten a hair raising 3 hours in a British aeroplane with almost all Italian passengers, the first problem was that the English stewards could not speak Italian the second was that the Italian passengers were so up their own asses that they decided the steward who was only trying to be friendly and liven up the atmosphere was taking the piss out of them because if he had been Italian that would been his intention but they forgot that he was English and had no idea that smiling to them would be taken as "taking the piss" and he of course was unaware of this (we were delayed and had to make a stop to drop off some technicians to help another plane). the result was that during our stop to drop the technicians off things escalated into a riot which further delayed us while some stupid Italian passenger who was going nuts in front of his wife and children at the stewards was kicked off the plane (and chances are that the one beer he had bought on the plane had gone to his head).
So in summary i sit here understanding exactly what you mean and why you have a certain "attitude" but know that others will not understand, nothing to do with cheap psychologist. On your part you could try and think before you type about how what you say will be taken by someone who has no common reference to you.
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I haven't forgotten a hair raising 3 hours in a British aeroplane with almost all Italian passengers, bla bla bla
yea yea Simon, i heard that twice already :D
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I haven't forgotten a hair raising 3 hours in a British aeroplane with almost all Italian passengers, bla bla bla
yea yea Simon, i heard that twice already :D
so ?
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so ?
errrhem, dont get angry will ya? ;)
i better be gone to bed... time to sleep. Cheers!
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so ?
errrhem, dont get angry will ya? ;)
i better be gone to bed... time to sleep. Cheers!
yea you go bed grrrrr ??? ;D
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The only people that I do not need around me right now,
are the cheap psychology analysts, and fortune tellers.
This forum does not revolve "around you". You may leave if you wish, we'll be fine.
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The only people that I do not need around me right now,
are the cheap psychology analysts, and fortune tellers.
This forum does not revolve "around you". You may leave if you wish, we'll be fine.
If I ever need your opinion , I will ask it ..
You have an confirmed negative behavior about attacking people , with sharp language.
Some things never change.
If you wish to stub me in the back once more , get in the line.
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There was this time i was on a British aeroplane with mostly Italian paseng....... ::) Hang on a minute :o yea told you that already :D
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Trust me I know how differences in culture and language barriers (or partial barriers) can cause international fireworks
You are not the only one ... I had work on a Hotel once ( summer season) as in-charge for the operation of the Internet café (a place which provides internet access to the public).
I have talk in person , with people from all over the world ,
and there is not so many differences , one smile and a bit of (rubbing back) as shafri says ,
does miracles.
I got lucky, and I have meet important and educated people ...
And the second factor its the most important , to hand out with true educated people ,
this is an true gain , and helps the conversation , to end up as useful ..
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But you are not fluent in English and have not lived in an English speaking culture, I am fluent in both languages and have spent half my life in each area.
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But you are not fluent in English and have not lived in an English speaking culture, I am fluent in both languages and have spent half my life in each area.
Yes but you haven't speak with the chef of the Scotland yard as i did ... :P
He invited me for a drink , that actually become two ..
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see now your just showing off ;D it's irrelevant to the point ::)
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see now your just showing off ;D it's irrelevant to the point ::)
Its just the truth ... and that's is all .
I am an very social person , and my proof is that there is very few from the European union ,
be active like me , in this forum.
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I am active on here, quality is more important than quantity but as you mention activity I believe I'm the top poster here (not that I've checked)
Anyway I met a rock star so there.... :P
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I am active on here, quality is more important than quantity but as you mention activity I believe I'm the top poster here (not that I've checked)
Anyway I met a rock star so there.... :P
Because you are an person with an so positive style , if I see you on the road with flat wheel ,
I will stop to give you a hand ... ;D
(now its time to start savings for a car ) ;)
And I stop here , I do not wish to see Dave not stopping and help my flat wheel, in the future. :D
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I just want to quickly state my intention of the video I made and I won’t say any more.
First of as you can probably guess I don’t own all of those meters. I’ve to borrow some of them from friends. Of course they asked what I was going to do with them as they know I’ve good meters. I’ve to tell them the true as they might see my video someday. Yes, I’m going to do GSM testing on them could potentially brick! I got some shock faces. But because I’m their good friends and know that I’ll responsible for what I have done. So they let me borrowed those meters.
My intention is to warn and educated those who are in market of buying Fluke and the ones who own them. Just something I felt like giving back to this community. Because of that it is hurt when someone talking trash. Yes, I’m a sensitive guy. This is because mostly I deal with professional.
All I’m asking is to be nice to those that are truly intent to give to this community. Otherwise pretty soon you’ll have none.
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I made a quick GSM testing video for the following models. See it yourself! NOTE: I'm using iPhone4 with GSM (NO 3G) and wifi connections is on. The phone is on call for entire video. Sometime you see the blank screen, but sill on call.
- Fluke 83
- Fluke 83V
- Fluke 87
- Fluke 87III
- Fluke 87IV
- Fluke 87V
- Fluke 87V EX
Nice confirmation, thanks semaphore!
Dave.
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Nice confirmation, thanks semaphore!
Dave.
now thats the conclusion from our admin. it could means a whole lot more, if you can translate that carefully. now get back to work people!
GDEx courier just called me! i better be ready to setup my lighting system, EEVBlog T-Shirts show off time! wait in "Show what you looks like" thread :D :P
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Status report : Tuesday 5 11:00 pm local.
After all this weeks , finally got the email from Athens , saying .... Fluke had send for you one 87-5 and one 28II , and they are ready to be send to you ..
Which one do you like to get ?
And I had reply .... The heaviest !! :D :D :D
(At Thursday we have unpacking ) ;) ( 34 hours to get there )
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Status report : Tuesday 5 11:00 pm local.
After all this weeks , finally got the email from Athens , saying .... Fluke had send for you one 87-5 and one 28II , and they are ready to be send to you ..
Which one do you like to get ?
The correct answer is "both, thank you Sir".
If you can stand the extra size/weight, the 28-II is a much better meter in all respects than the 87-V
Dave.
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Status report : Tuesday 5 11:00 pm local.
After all this weeks , finally got the email from Athens , saying .... Fluke had send for you one 87-5 and one 28II , and they are ready to be send to you ..
Which one do you like to get ?
The correct answer is "both, thank you Sir".
Dave.
I was more modest ;D , and asked an pair of Fuses in the name of good will .
I do not think that I will ever get them , but hope dies last..
:D
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I bet you get the fuses
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I bet you get the fuses
You lost the bet !! and I payed plus 12EUR because also and the return shipping ,was charged on me !!
This is the reason of why some small distributors , will keep to be small for all their life ..
There is no need to say that I was never informed about that .. or that it was even shipped ..
The good part ...
I did some testing looks ok , no GSM issues , fits in my aftermarket tool case ;)
I liked the beeper allot , the back light is not that powerful (probably due the AA lower voltage 4.5V VS 9V)
Right now I am teaching it to speak Greek .. ;D
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Good to see Fluke came through!
Dave.
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Yes the American Fluke did their best , I recognize this and with proofs ...
They had send the specific 28II from USA to Fluke Europe ... just for me .
This DMM got packaged in the box before two weeks !! or less ..
(15/9/2010 ) and today we have 7/10/2010 .. ten days was traveling around, so its just 10 days old from the production line to the end customer . :D
Well I like to thanks you Dave publicly for once more time , for all the help .
About calling your neighbors :D Fluke Australia ..
I also need to thanks the Senior Support Engineer at Fluke Everett Washington ,
he is a man that you can speak freely for anything, and this is because he is an technician too,
so there is an common base and language , about understanding .
( I will contact him and personally by email)
That's it .. I got an happy end , and now what stays for all of you , are the gathered information.
Use it wisely and protect your 87-5 from high expose to GSM .
If I did not had bricked my , this is what I would do too ...
I would look after it and for the GSM issue , as I was look after it, so to not drop down , or keeping the screen safe from scratches .... and all this common babysit that we do at anything expensive.
Good luck to all Kiriakos .. :)
.
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15/9/10 manufacture?
Subtract the time it took to get to you, and this sucker must have been manufactured and packaged by elves (or oompa loompa's)!
Dave.
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Update ..
Got an email today , from the Senior Support Engineer at Fluke Everett Washington.
He visited this thread before few hours , and read my comment,
about the fact that I asked few Fuses as an minimum compensation from the Greek retailer,
and that I got none ..
He told me , that he will send me as gift , some of them ..
( An Christmas gift from Fluke )
Well, I will say just an typical Thanks .. because I can not find the proper words to express my feelings.
It is not the material that matters, it is the jester that counts above everything.
And so dear friend at FLUKE ( after 24 exchanged emails we had become so ),
I will say that in FLUKE, they must be proud mostly , of having such people like you, working for them.
Merry Christmas , happy holidays, and I wish in the 2011, all your dreams to become reality. :)
GREEK CHRISTMAS CAROLS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zltbDP07npw#)
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Kiriakos scammed Fluke!!!
he purchased his Fluke 87V on Ebay as used... he was not the original owner. He should not have received a brand new 28II as replacement.
Update ..
Got an email today , from the Senior Support Engineer at Fluke Everett Washington.
He visited this thread before few hours , and read my comment,
about the fact that I asked few Fuses as an minimum compensation from the Greek retailer,
and that I got none ..
He told me , that he will send me as gift , some of them ..
( An Christmas gift from Fluke )
Well, I will say just an typical Thanks .. because I can not find the proper words to express my feelings.
It is not the material that matters, it is the jester that counts above everything.
And so dear friend at FLUKE ( after 24 exchanged emails we had become so ),
I will say that in FLUKE, they must be proud mostly , of having such people like you, working for them.
Merry Christmas , happy holidays, and I wish in the 2011, all your dreams to become reality. :)
GREEK CHRISTMAS CAROLS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zltbDP07npw#)
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And the purpose of your post was ?
Fluke appear to have a design issue with one of their pieces of current equipment. It is absolutely no surprise that they wish to investigate what could be a design flaw and are keen to adeqautely respond to a users problem. That is the definition of a quality manufacturer. Whether the unit was new, used or the original owner is imaterial when investigating potential design flaws.
It' Christmas.... be nice ;)
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Kiriakos scammed Fluke!!!
No, he did them a HUGE favor by discovering this problem, and they know it.
They should have given him 10 new meters!
Dave.
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I will only say this ...
1) Fluke never asked from me, any documents about the purchased meter.
And so i was unable to cheat, even if I had plan it .
2) My first thinking , after the damage, was to pay and fix it.
And I did nag about it , because there was some large fixed costs involved.
3) The fast reaction of Dave , by pulling the right strings , activated Fluke ,
and then what they did , its their business.
4) I will post the last email , from Fluke , that ends with one description ,
that will cause silence , to any one who acts in bad faith. :)
.
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Yesterday I received the fuses ( 29 Dec ) , they kept their promise .. :)
In return , I offered them my idea , that is also published here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=455.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=455.0)
Its good to have friends internationally, and its the less that I can say about such a story.
Happy New year to all ( 2011 ) .
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I'm still waiting for Fluke to issue a solution to this problem.......... It's great that they replaced Kiriakos's failed unit promptly with one that doesn't suffer from this weakness, but there's a hugh number of 87V's out there that still have this weakness, and there does not seem to be a followup to this problem from Fluke. I'd be happy with a self installed shield update or perhaps a recall, but just leaving it without any official acknowledgment of the problem is.... well..... annoying to me.
To be honest, I've got a brand new 87V on the way as I feel it's still a great DMM and I'll just make sure it's not close to a GSM phone, but it's a pain to have to remember such when even cheapo DMM's are not vulnerable to this problem. So FLUKE, suck it up and give us a FIX for this!
Regards
Kaptain "Impatient?!?!? ME?!?!?! "Zero
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Hello @kaptain_zero I do understand your feelings , but it is not justified such passion,
especially when your DMM it is still healthy and not damaged. :)
Logically any one with active warranty has nothing to fear,
Fluke are aware thanks to all of us, and every similar event it will be covered by warranty.
I am the living proof.
The idea of the shield, it was an idea of one forum member,
and it is just a local theory.
You do well to protect your DMM, this is what I advice also and many Greeks too,
and some of them they got an 87V even after getting informed about the GSM issue.
The most outrageous would be , the scenario that Fluke was aware of the sensitivity of the 87V,
and that they have shown denial so to recognize it as their fault, so to cover it by the warranty.
But this does not happens, at list until now.
And so there is no reason , for such bursts of passion. ;)
I am not Fluke , and I just write down what had happened so far.
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Kiriakos,
I'm tempted to agree with you to a point, thus my actually ordering a new 87V as I know it will suit my needs well. But, your point that "any one with active warranty has nothing to fear" is not actually valid. After all, if you or I rely on this DMM for earning a living, having it fail from a cause, now well known, but not corrected by the manufacturer, means I may have to send my now non working meter away and wait for it to be repaired. If I do not have additional DMM's to fill in for the 87V while it's being repaired, I may have difficulty in performing my work. Additionally, if it is simply repaired, it is still vulnerable to failing from the same issue again. Considering even cheap Chinese meters do not have this "issue", it really is something a top notch manufacturer such as Fluke, should address and promptly at that.
As an example, a car company that offers a rock solid warranty on their cars is of little value to an owner who finds him/herself having to take the car in for warranty repairs time and time again.... Once an auto manufacturer finds a weakness in a design, they engineer a fix that will avoid these problems in the future, saving their customers from enduring these unnecessary repairs.
Perhaps your 87V's failure was a fluke (uhh.... pun not intended, but there it is.....) but the susceptibility is clearly documented by Dave in his video blog.
Regards
Christian
Hello @kaptain_zero I do understand your feelings , but it is not justified such passion,
especially when your DMM it is still healthy and not damaged. :)
Logically any one with active warranty has nothing to fear,
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Christian your words about working in the field , and have an issue are justified .
The only immediate solution is to get an 28II , so to stop thinking about it.
But from another point of view , there is so many other reasons, that could send an multimeter to the hospital ;D
And so the " delay part " about sending the multimeter , its part of the game .. always was.
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I don't know how I've managed to miss this. I'm waiting for a 2nd hand ebay Fluke 87V to land on my doorstep anytime now and now I find this... Are there any ways I could make my meter less susceptable to this kinda damage? Unfortunately I own both a phone with gsm (who doesn't these days?!) and a router which are in the same room where I'll be using the damn thing!
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dont put them together!
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No worries unless you place the phone directly next to your meter.... ditto for the router. I have a similar router about 3 feet away from where I do my measurements and I've never had any interaction. My phone is closer (in my pocket) and I can't see how I would ever place it any closer to my Fluke so I'm not worried. Even IF I were to brick my Fluke, I'm confident Fluke would fix the meter. This does not mean I'm happy with the way Fluke has dealt with this issue.... just that I'm confident in that if this were to occur to me...... I'd be taken care of by Fluke.
Or... as Mechatrommer said...... don't put your phone right next to your meter! :-)
Regards
Christian
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Hello!
I want to buy one of these multimeters. I have found some 87V's on an online shop and I think that they may have this GSM issue.
Is there a way to tell if a 87V does not have the GSM issue? Can I ask something to the seller to make sure that the 87V is an updated one?
Thanks!
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Hi!
I sent an email to Fluke, but no one replied.
So guys, is there any other Fluke multimeter that has the same features this one has? Could you please recommend one? (Without the GSM glitch of course ;D )
Thanks! 8)