EEVblog #1132 - The 3 Cent Microcontroller!

[mubes]

The whole writeup about the arm chip is at my blog, including how to program it. The link to the post is http://smdprutser.nl/blog/the-arm-chip-that-wont-cost-an-arm-and-a-leg/ i also have some chips (which are sold out at lcsc.com) and breakoutboards available.

Great effort. Would you mind contacting the BlackMagic project to get your patches folded in upstream? PM me if you need to know how to do that, but its easiest to contact via Gitter.

Regards

DAVE

[timelessbeing]

Crazy. You can also find Panasonic electrolytics on LCSC for a fraction of what Digikey and Mouser charge. Shipping is the same.

https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Others_PANASONIC_EEEFK1K470P_PANASONIC-EEEFK1K470P_C178556.html

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-FK1K470P/PCE3831CT-ND/766207
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/667-EEE-FK1K470P

Note the stock differences, digikey has over 100000 pieces while lcsc has 300 , what do you think what happens if those 300 are sold out ?
If  you order 10000 pieces you probably get nothing.

I saw and I don't care. I need one, but at that price I'll order ten.

[thm_w]

Has anyone found a single Padauk chip in the wild in an actual product?  If they have been around for 13 years there has to be some out there.

Looking at the LCSC page there appear to be no markings, which makes sense as that adds cost to the chip: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/PADAUK_PADAUK-Tech-PMS150C-U06_C168658.html
There are tons of products with unmarked 8-pin micros, so this could be one of them.

[MK14]

Has anyone found a single Padauk chip in the wild in an actual product?  If they have been around for 13 years there has to be some out there.

Looking at the LCSC page there appear to be no markings, which makes sense as that adds cost to the chip: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/PADAUK_PADAUK-Tech-PMS150C-U06_C168658.html
There are tons of products with unmarked 8-pin micros, so this could be one of them.

LCSC seem to be just using blank component images, to make their website easier/quicker/cheaper to implement and maintain.

You can see thier logo, on the chips below.

[nctnico]

A short comment about the 0 to X MHz in the datasheet which seemed a surprise. Actually this is an important parameter to know about. It means you can shut the clock down completely without problems. Not all processors allow shutting the clock down!

[Sjaak]

The whole writeup about the arm chip is at my blog, including how to program it. The link to the post is http://smdprutser.nl/blog/the-arm-chip-that-wont-cost-an-arm-and-a-leg/ i also have some chips (which are sold out at lcsc.com) and breakoutboards available.

Great effort. Would you mind contacting the BlackMagic project to get your patches folded in upstream? PM me if you need to know how to do that, but its easiest to contact via Gitter.

Regards

DAVE

I send a pull request, but need to rebase/merge some things first.

[cowasaki]

Have I missed it or has anyone found a comparative table of all the Paduak microcontrollers?  Would be interesting to see what they all have.  Need to have a look through the data sheets as well but this looks really good

[Nusa]

Have I missed it or has anyone found a comparative table of all the Paduak microcontrollers?  Would be interesting to see what they all have.  Need to have a look through the data sheets as well but this looks really good

You mean like their own literature?
http://www.padauk.com.tw/en/product/method.aspx?num=1

[cowasaki]

Have I missed it or has anyone found a comparative table of all the Paduak microcontrollers?  Would be interesting to see what they all have.  Need to have a look through the data sheets as well but this looks really good

You mean like their own literature?
http://www.padauk.com.tw/en/product/method.aspx?num=1

Yep, that might do it :-)

Thanks

[thm_w]

LCSC seem to be just using blank component images, to make their website easier/quicker/cheaper to implement and maintain.

You can see thier logo, on the chips below.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShDMwUnRPEESnoAp2HlaBTdYDBqDHr2cddNWow28U1S67AikwU
https://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1371112/19247777/0/1305613240.jpg

LCSC are very good at showing the image of the chip in question, for example: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/DC-DC-Converters_TI_TPS61040DBVR_TPS61040DBVR_C7722.html
They may mark the larger pin chips as the cost of those is higher.

[MK14]

LCSC seem to be just using blank component images, to make their website easier/quicker/cheaper to implement and maintain.

You can see thier logo, on the chips below.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShDMwUnRPEESnoAp2HlaBTdYDBqDHr2cddNWow28U1S67AikwU
https://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1371112/19247777/0/1305613240.jpg

LCSC are very good at showing the image of the chip in question, for example: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/DC-DC-Converters_TI_TPS61040DBVR_TPS61040DBVR_C7722.html
They may mark the larger pin chips as the cost of those is higher.

Your're right. Many of the ICs and stuff on LCSC, does seem to have the correct/actual photograph, complete with actual part number.

So I'm NOT sure, if the 3 cent micros, are labeled or not. But since the LCSC seems to show no marking on the chip, you could easily be right.

(Changing the subject a bit), as well as cutting costs to save on printing the label. I'm surprised that, at only 3 cents, the micros are packaged. I.e. at only $0.03 each, I would have thought they would have to be COB dies (i.e. Chip On Board).

[ebclr]

2 models MTP

PFS5154 and PFC154, those can be good for developments

[tchicago]

It is interesting that all explorations that Dave & Dave did on Padauk 3c controllers are now being reposted on various Russian blogs and forums without giving any credit to eevblog

[Smokey]

It is interesting that all explorations that Dave & Dave did on Padauk 3c controllers are now being reposted on various Russian blogs and forums without giving any credit to eevblog

Russia/Padauk meddling to influence my next Digikey purchase! 

[spth]

[…]

If you want cheap micros that are going to be available for the same price in the foreseeable future, try Holtek and STC. Holtek is Taiwanese and they have very decent English documentation and tools. STC is Chinese and used to have a Chinese-only website that would give regular visitors eye cancer. I see they updated the website and now have an English version. They are even translating the datasheets, but expect a rougher experience.


In any case, the cheapest Holtek HT48R002 OTP micro is just 9 cents on lcsc, and you can get it for 6 in reasonable quantity in Shenzhen. Yes, it's still very cheap, but not 3 cents in quantity of 10 cheap.

Don't forget the STM8. ST may be a European company, but they still make very cheap µCs. Actually, it seems the STM8 are currently cheaper even at Digikey compared to LCSC.

Philipp

[janekm]

Don't forget the STM8. ST may be a European company, but they still make very cheap µCs. Actually, it seems the STM8 are currently cheaper even at Digikey compared to LCSC.

Philipp

Used to be cheap... For a while ST where price-dumping with STM8 to get a foot-hold with Chinese manufacturers. When they became popular they raised the price by a lot (30-50% more currently compared to the lowest price). Not surprisingly Nuvoton jumped in with a pin-compatible (but not code-compatible afaik) chip. Still even at their lowest price the STM8 was 8 times as expensive as the Padauk one...

[spth]

Don't forget the STM8. ST may be a European company, but they still make very cheap µCs. Actually, it seems the STM8 are currently cheaper even at Digikey compared to LCSC.

Philipp

Used to be cheap... For a while ST where price-dumping with STM8 to get a foot-hold with Chinese manufacturers. When they became popular they raised the price by a lot (30-50% more currently compared to the lowest price). Not surprisingly Nuvoton jumped in with a pin-compatible (but not code-compatible afaik) chip. Still even at their lowest price the STM8 was 8 times as expensive as the Padauk one...

Parts of ST are apparently attempting to move STM8 customers to the STM32, and have been doing so for quite a while. Maybe the price increase was part of that?

Philipp

[spth]

It looks like there is a second source for Padauk µCs:

http://www.puolop.com/products/category/mid/2/sid/15.html

Since Puolop have their own datasheets and part numbers, this doesn't look like a reseller. On the other hand, part numbers are similar enough to assume that they might be just clones. At a first glance it looks like the Puolop range is very similar to the Padauk OTP range

It seems LCSC only has a feww Puolop devices in stock, which does notinclude teh Puolop ow-end parts. So I don't know if Puolop could be a cheaper alternative to Padauk for those.

Philipp

[nick_d]

To work with OTP devices, in general you buy the windowed version to use in the lab, it is usually 10 times more expensive (30c? Ha ha) but you only need a few of them. For instance, I have several tubes of regular plastic packaged PIC12C508 and two of the same silicon in a fetching gold framed windowed package, you put them in the UV eraser to reuse. (Ah, memories...) I also did this with COP8SAC7, now I have several boxes containing hundreds of surplus OTP MCUs, but have lost the windowed parts and the debug module, searched for them in the factory a while ago with no luck. Perhaps an etch job is called for, or sell them @ 3c??
cheers, Nick

[spth]

It looks like there is a second source for Padauk µCs:

http://www.puolop.com/products/category/mid/2/sid/15.html

Since Puolop have their own datasheets and part numbers, this doesn't look like a reseller. On the other hand, part numbers are similar enough to assume that they might be just clones. At a first glance it looks like the Puolop range is very similar to the Padauk OTP range

It seems LCSC only has a feww Puolop devices in stock, which does notinclude teh Puolop ow-end parts. So I don't know if Puolop could be a cheaper alternative to Padauk for those.

Philipp

Having a second quick look at Puolop ist seems to me:

Puolop is cloning most 1-core and 2-Core OTP Padauk devices. Datasheets seem identical even down to version number and dates in the Changelog.
Unlike Padauk, Puolop does not offer Flash or 8-Core devices.
Recently, Puolop is making their own 1-Core OTP devices based on the Padauk architecture (e.g. the PTBO164SX, first and so far only version of datasheet from 2017, does not seem to have a Padauk equivalent).

Philipp

[timelessbeing]