Author Topic: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds  (Read 55273 times)

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Online EEVblog

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EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« on: December 18, 2018, 01:07:56 am »
Weller responds to the magic smoke escaping from their WE1010 soldering station, and the lack of a primary side mains fuse.
Prepare to be awestruck at their commitment to safety!

https://weller-tools.com/we1010na/



The Current Source tears down a Weller WEP51 iron:





 
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 01:17:28 am »
Weller reputation.
Toilet.
Flush...
Time is the overseer of all things.
 
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Offline sibeen

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 01:52:43 am »
They may be typing up another letter very shortly.

ROFL - what a cluster.
 

Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 02:00:03 am »
Weller reputation.
Toilet.
Flush...

Sure, plug up 120V only device , designed mostly for professional electronic technicians to 240V and voilla:
Their reputation , what?
 
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Offline ataradov

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 02:03:57 am »
But hey, it has safety brochure included. What else do you want?

It probably does not affect their reputation very much, but makes me personally not want to buy one for sure.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:05:34 am by ataradov »
Alex
 

Offline The Soulman

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 02:05:17 am »
I don't like to spoil a nice rant, but does the 110V model ship with a fused plug in the supply lead?
 
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Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 02:07:27 am »
It doesn't, I believe the fuse in the plug is the British only idea (thanks God).
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 02:08:43 am »
My Goodman AC system has no fuse between 240V and its control xfmr. It costed me $5000 to install, and it came with a defective defrost controller board, and the new board has been ordered for a week and I still haven't seen it. As a result, I'm burning electricity on heating strips to keep myself from freezing.

Proudly made in USA.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 02:09:46 am »
I don't like to spoil a nice rant, but does the 110V model ship with a fused plug in the supply lead?

If it is, they should would have and should have said so in their response.
But no, I don't believe it has one, that's not a US thing.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 02:13:17 am »
A grounded product here usually has a fuse, if it has one (and something like a soldering iron really should) in the case. How much could it possibly add to the cost, maybe $1 ?

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2018, 02:21:05 am »
My Goodman AC system has no fuse between 240V and its control xfmr. It costed me $5000 to install, and it came with a defective defrost controller board, and the new board has been ordered for a week and I still haven't seen it. As a result, I'm burning electricity on heating strips to keep myself from freezing.

Proudly made in USA.

If it cost you $5000 to install you paid way too much.
Not sure about USA but it should be close, the Canadian code states that up to 15A you usually don't have to provide a primary fusing, being that the smallest size commercially available breaker is 15A and the lowest gauge acceptable for wiring is 14 and that the objective of the code is o protect the wiring.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2018, 02:22:05 am »
A grounded product here usually has a fuse, if it has one (and something like a soldering iron really should) in the case. How much could it possibly add to the cost, maybe $1 ?

It's not even about cost. It's just the legislators say if a mains certified product is used at the entry point, a fuse is not necessary. UL/ETL/whatever assumes the xfmr never fails if it bears their certificate.
It's exactly like sometimes we have LC filters with X caps unfused, hence the self igniting Rifa thing.

Weird and stupid laws, but in the books.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:26:46 am by blueskull »
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2018, 02:26:01 am »
If it cost you $5000 to install you paid way too much.
Not sure about USA but it should be close, the Canadian code states that up to 15A you usually don't have to provide a primary fusing, being that the smallest size commercially available breaker is 15A and the lowest gauge acceptable for wiring is 14 and that the objective of the code is o protect the wiring.

The system costs $1700, and local installers usually inflate that by 3x.
I know a guy who does it cheaper, and is very experienced, but at the time my AC failed, he was not in the town, and 90F was killing me in mid summer.
So I asked the company with the shortest queue, which probably is not the best idea.

The AC has a rated power of 8kW for the indoor unit, mostly dictated by the heating strip.
Sure, a failed xfmr won't burn the thick wires, but the xfmr can burn the air handler, then my house.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2018, 02:26:37 am »
The more important question is will EEVBlog get another copyright strike for an injection of humor  :scared:
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 

Offline HwAoRrDk

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 02:30:02 am »
I cracked open my cheapo Atten soldering station to see what that was like. It has a 1A fuse on the mains input. The transformer has a fuse symbol on it's label too, implying that is also fused! The label rates it at 5A. And to top it off, the (captive, so you can't misplace it) mains plug is also fused at 13A.

If the Weller did originally come with a fused mains cable/plug, they should have made it captive so it can't easily be lost and operated with a non-fused input. Plus then someone in Dave's situation would not have plugged it in to 240V because it has the wrong plug ("What's this bloody yank thing doing on here? Ah, it's 110V...").
 

Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 02:36:23 am »
If it cost you $5000 to install you paid way too much.
Not sure about USA but it should be close, the Canadian code states that up to 15A you usually don't have to provide a primary fusing, being that the smallest size commercially available breaker is 15A and the lowest gauge acceptable for wiring is 14 and that the objective of the code is o protect the wiring.

The system costs $1700, and local installers usually inflate that by 3x.
I know a guy who does it cheaper, and is very experienced, but at the time my AC failed, he was not in the town, and 90F was killing me in mid summer.
So I asked the company with the shortest queue, which probably is not the best idea.

The AC has a rated power of 8kW for the indoor unit, mostly dictated by the heating strip.
Sure, a failed xfmr won't burn the thick wires, but the xfmr can burn the air handler, then my house.
Ie US you don't rate AC systems in KW, guess is that you're talking about run of the mill 2 Ton system (2 ton = 24,000Btuh ).
And that XFMR wouldn't burn your house, it may have stinked it, that's all.

 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 02:40:41 am »
Ie US you don't rate AC systems in KW, guess is that you're talking about run of the mill 2 Ton system (2 ton = 24,000Btuh ).
And that XFMR wouldn't burn your house, it may have stinked it, that's all.

The Ton rating is for the compressor, which is powered by outdoor unit power panel.
The indoor unit only runs air handler and heat strips, aka emergency heat, and is rated in kW.
And you might be right, it is hard for that little guy to set the metal enclosure on fire, but still it is a hazard, anything mains without a fuse is one.

FYI, the past participle of stink is stank.
 

Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 02:52:12 am »
Ie US you don't rate AC systems in KW, guess is that you're talking about run of the mill 2 Ton system (2 ton = 24,000Btuh ).
And that XFMR wouldn't burn your house, it may have stinked it, that's all.

The Ton rating is for the compressor, which is powered by outdoor unit power panel.
The indoor unit only runs air handler and heat strips, aka emergency heat, and is rated in kW.
And you might be right, it is hard for that little guy to set the metal enclosure on fire, but still it is a hazard, anything mains without a fuse is one.

FYI, the past participle of stink is stank.
d,
I  really don't know if stanked is any better than stinked don't  care much anyway.

All I know is that either indoor evaporator coils or outdoor condensing units are rated firstly in BTUh then in the customary tons of refrigeration.

 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 02:57:24 am »
that transformer looks like it shit its pants. You removed a brown panel and it looked like there was a bunch of dookie in there. Clearly designed by children. It's like those old school night dress that had a flap around your butt. This one clearly got soiled.


 They are too lazy to modify a document and put a 1$ fuse holder in there with a piece of wire. I think they did it so something hard to replace fails and they can sell more or charge exorbitant repair prices. I am pretty sure you can have a 5 second over voltage on the mains easily. I don't know how it passed testing?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 03:02:32 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline lowimpedance

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 03:03:45 am »
A grounded product here usually has a fuse, if it has one (and something like a soldering iron really should) in the case. How much could it possibly add to the cost, maybe $1 ?
Especially with all the effort/cost that went into protecting the secondary,  leaving the primary without one is totally bewildering.

They are too lazy to modify a document and put a 1$ fuse holder in there with a piece of wire. I think they did it so something hard to replace fails and they can sell more or charge exorbitant repair prices.

Put in a thermal fuse in the transformer and achieve the same end with out burning down the owners home/work.
The odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........can't remember !.
 

Offline alpher

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 03:04:44 am »
that transformer looks like it shit its pants. You removed a brown panel and it looked like there was a bunch of dookie in there. Clearly designed by children. It's like those old school night dress that had a flap around your butt. This one clearly got soiled.


 They are too lazy to modify a document and put a 1$ fuse holder in there with a piece of wire. I think they did it so something hard to replace fails and they can sell more or charge exorbitant repair prices. I am pretty sure you can have a 5 second over voltage on the mains easily. I don't know how it passed testing?
Why would they do that?
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 03:14:34 am »
Usually people that buy lab equipment fix their own stuff. Especially broke high schools and whatever. This works and its cheaper then a thermally fused transformer.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2018, 03:17:23 am »
I'm kind of tired of the rant videos - are you more worked up about the lack of a fuse or Weller's response?

It is sad there is no fuse though, I used to like Weller gear and with the prices they charge they can certainly afford a fuse.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to make a video showing why a fuse is important and how a fuse should be correctly(value/rating) sized for a given product.
VE7FM
 
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Online boB

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2018, 03:22:27 am »
Sometimes UL (or other NRTL) will make you add a fuse internal to the transformer.  Another idea is to add a resettable fuse (PTC) next to it so that it opens up when the windings get hot.   But what UL standard did this iron get tested to ?  Most irons should be tested to the same document I would think.

Weller has been around for a very long time.  I would think that they would not move from what already works ?

I don't remember if that soldering iron base actually emitted fire or flames ? That is not allowed.  Not sure about the smoke.

What UL and others do is to place a cheese cloth over the unit and during an overload, if it marks the cloth, then it fails that test.  It can break but can't be unsafe.

K7IQ
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2018, 03:31:05 am »
I'm kind of tired of the rant videos - are you more worked up about the lack of a fuse or Weller's response?

It is sad there is no fuse though, I used to like Weller gear and with the prices they charge they can certainly afford a fuse.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to make a video showing why a fuse is important and how a fuse should be correctly(value/rating) sized for a given product.

because its annoying corporate bullshit guiding the decision not to implement a fuse. if you worked for a engineering company you would know why it makes engineers angry. especially if sales is involved. I mean if you are someone that cares about the product like you say you do when you apply. You want to work on it, do more testing, make it reliable but some guy is annoyed a document has been on his desk for too long so he pushes it through so he can say he pushed it through. Who would think this is an acceptable failure mode if you found it during testing?????????? It even looks unclean. I would feel embarrassed. You can't even give some kind of complicated electrical mumbo jumbo as to why it broke, even a lay person can figure out its built like shit when it breaks like that. 0 class trashy.

I wonder if weller even has toilets, perhaps they shit on the floor if this looks acceptable to them.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 03:39:27 am by coppercone2 »
 
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