Author Topic: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds  (Read 55407 times)

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Offline boB

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #250 on: December 20, 2018, 12:37:09 am »

I'm also questioning the safety standard. UL 499 originated in 1931 so it's got a huge legacy.
A problem with zillions of safety standards is having a zillion committees and as the years get along, the standards are different and miss coverage of certain faults and unsafe scenarios.

Why should a product with a power transformer have such different requirements whether in a soldering station, clock radio, stereo, control panel, bench multimeter etc. ?


That's not how that "mafia" operates....

UL wouldn't be able to make all that money if they had just one standard OR didn't make people pay a LOT for the newer and updated standards.

You can be sure that UL 499 was updated fairly recently and make everybody buy the new version !

K7IQ
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #251 on: December 20, 2018, 02:31:33 am »
hi there leukemia

bye bone marrow
Yup, you're definitely gonna die.

Better just buy your quarantine bubble now.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #252 on: December 20, 2018, 02:40:45 am »
a great many pro-oxidant substances may pose substantial additive risks due to  .... blah blah ... N-acetyl-cysteine  ... blah ... Everybody should take NAC because ... Read the linked paper. ...  sites like nutrition.org (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition) ... blah

I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.

 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #253 on: December 20, 2018, 02:42:36 am »
yes if you lose your shit and can't filter information its a good idea to isolate yourself

how is this relevant to not inhaling burning dielectric materials and metal smoke? if you stick your nose into that smoke stream your gonna feel severely ill and cough up a lung. real quick. its not the difference between drinking chai tea and lipton, its fucking plastic smoke. This shit is completely obvious look at the fire service statistics.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 02:47:11 am by coppercone2 »
 
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Offline jonovid

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #254 on: December 20, 2018, 03:05:29 am »
Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence.  |O
Weller tombstone mentality and an automated complaints procedure  >:D
looks like saving pennies, is more important than paying humans to reply to your letter.

here is another example of tombstone mentality to save some pennies on redesign & product recalls.

tombstone mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombstone_mentality

remington rifle tombstone mentality
remington rifle trigger problems
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/guns/rifles/i-heard-something-about-remington-700s-and-a-problem-with-them-firing-by

https://xmprecall.remington.com/

example of tombstone mentality


Remington Under Fire: CNBC Investigation
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
remington rifle trigger problems cost pennies pur unit to fix.   a trigger redesign & product recall.
Hobby of evil genius      basic knowledge of electronics
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #255 on: December 20, 2018, 03:16:02 am »
What was the price tier level of the unit?
The bottom of the barrel of their product line, which is still much more expensive than the actual bottom of the barrel. Heck, I have a Hakko FX888 that was 60% of the price of this unit and is rock solid (and has a fuse!  ;D )

I'm running the fused pro station.
That is a very nice unit, and I would be quite surprised if Weller cut that kind of corner on this model - that is why it was so frustrating to see them hiding behind a technicality instead of priding themselves in producing a tool with at least such basic safeguard.
 
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #256 on: December 20, 2018, 03:30:04 am »
if you stick your nose into that smoke stream your gonna feel severely ill

 :-DD Yeah you probably would.

By the way, picturing someone stick their nose into a cloud of plastic smoke made me literally laugh out loud.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #257 on: December 20, 2018, 03:48:32 am »


I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #258 on: December 20, 2018, 04:12:31 am »
Haha! That was funny. I'm going to go find that movie.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #259 on: December 20, 2018, 09:41:20 am »

Weller have been getting away with unfused dumbassery for decades. I'm amazed they still do it today, and get away with safety regulation BS approval markings.

The gear is good quality and performs well, except for no fusing on the primary and secondary. 

It cost me $5? retail to fit two internal inline fuse holders with appropriate surge friendly T-fuses rated just above the primary 240v AC and secondary 24v AC currents,
taking into account worst case cold startup and running current draw.

That R+D took a few minutes extra, to measure, test and verify by cooking two sacrificial fuses which clapped out at the calculated point where they should, with no losses whilst intact at normal operation.   

That deal would have cost Weller 50? cents or less to implement on all their wares, and this EEVblog post might be active in a darker alternate unviverse perhaps, instead of here. 

Don't get me started why I opened up the solder station in the first place to find out why the unit was intermittent in operation,
and notice zero fuse protection on top. No one would believe it, I should have taken photos...

Anyways, my Weller now rocks and I don't have to think about it going barbeque,
unless I fall asleep soldering in bed...  :=\


Suggest to owners to fuse both sides, it may save you a bundle especially if a repair being soldered becomes live or charged whilst soldering, or the base station drops on concrete,
or thrown at a zombie 

i.e. a coupla bucks for a fuse or two and back in business   :-+


Hey, does this post mean a lot of unfused Wellers will now get flogged off dirt cheap ? 
You can never have too many Wellers, I will wait for the panic sellling to start  :scared: :scared: :scared:

 >:D
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #260 on: December 20, 2018, 10:31:27 am »
From what the vice president wrote it sounds like they're all embarrassed.
I find a little odd:

"Dear sir,"
Formal.

"Kindest regards,"
Informal.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 10:35:51 am by MrMobodies »
 

Offline WN1X

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #261 on: December 20, 2018, 12:55:01 pm »
Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence.  |O

I disagree...Weller's reply had all the signs of marketing "intelligence"  :palm:
- Jim
 

Offline TheDane

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #262 on: December 20, 2018, 01:00:41 pm »


I have a crazy idea for you. It will make you much happier, which will result in you being healthier.

STOP READING PAPERS AND NUTRITION WEBSITES.



Thanks, and make sure to inhale the smoke deep into your lungs  ^-^
Here is another great movie about smoking I can recommend to watch - Thank you for smoking

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #263 on: December 20, 2018, 01:19:48 pm »
Weller reply to your letter had all the signs of artificial intelligence.  |O
Weller tombstone mentality and an automated complaints procedure  >:D
looks like saving pennies, is more important than paying humans to reply to your letter.

here is another example of tombstone mentality to save some pennies on redesign & product recalls.

tombstone mentality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombstone_mentality

remington rifle tombstone mentality
remington rifle trigger problems
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
https://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/guns/rifles/i-heard-something-about-remington-700s-and-a-problem-with-them-firing-by

https://xmprecall.remington.com/

example of tombstone mentality


Remington Under Fire: CNBC Investigation
Remington rifle and a problem with them firing by themselves.
remington rifle trigger problems cost pennies pur unit to fix.   a trigger redesign & product recall.

I belonged to a small club where we would have a competition once a week.  There were different events, some for handguns, some shot guns...  I remember one event I attended was for a center fire, couple hundred yard.   You get five rounds while standing, kneeling and prone, or 15 total.  It's a timed event.  I decided to bring my 700 that I had owned since my youth.  During the event I chambered a round and the gun fired.   Basically I was locking the bolt.  Safety plays a HUGE part at these events.  Barrels are ALWAYS pointed down range.  Guns are on the benches with their bolts open and flagged and no one next to them before anyone is allowed down range.   Under the circumstances, the risk was low but it could have played out much differently.    I fitted it with a Timney. 

I checked my serial number and it was not on their recall list. 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 01:23:57 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline cdev

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #264 on: December 20, 2018, 01:20:05 pm »
It's a really great movie. I like "Bananas" a lot too.


Haha! That was funny. I'm going to go find that movie.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Robaroni

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #265 on: December 20, 2018, 02:26:03 pm »
OK, how many stations has Weller sold over the years? A lot. How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage? I'll bet a lot less. They complied to the standards, maybe people who are upset should go after the standards - and good luck with that!

If I plugged my station into twice the working voltage I'd be too embarrassed to tell anyone. And how did that happen, aren't their plug standards and differences? what country was it and why did it happen?

My Weller station is fused and I'd have to work to plug it into 230v, I'm still scratching my head. I need more info, more details but the last people I'm blaming is Weller, they complied.
 
When I was a kid we a had radio called the "All American 5", everyone had one. It had 5 tubes and the filament voltage added up to 121 volts. 12,12,12,35,50 was the working filament voltage for each of the 5 tubes. No input transformer, no isolation from mains. If you plugged the mains in one way the chassis was hot, if you touched a pipe or earth ground you got zapped. I used to work in a TV repair shop back then and I got nailed more than once. The manufacturers were following code, you can't blame them, blame the code, fix the code if you're pissed.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #266 on: December 20, 2018, 02:46:11 pm »
How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage?

Not many, but there was a case recently...  :popcorn:

And how did that happen, aren't their plug standards and differences? what country was it and why did it happen?

The IEC connector on the back is an international standard. People just tend to grab an IEC cable from their bench and plug things in.

(maybe we can blame IEC for not designing different shape plugs for different voltages, plus another one for multi-voltage devices)

My Weller station is fused

So... Weller does know how to put fuses in things.  :)
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #267 on: December 20, 2018, 03:23:45 pm »
Apparently all the German designed Wellers are fused. Figures.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1160-weller-responds/msg2051380/#msg2051380
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #268 on: December 20, 2018, 03:29:39 pm »
OK, how many stations has Weller sold over the years? A lot. How many stations have failed because someone plugged them into the wrong voltage?

From my personal experience?  *counting* 1 out of 6.
 

Offline Grapsus

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #269 on: December 20, 2018, 03:53:32 pm »
The wrong voltage is beside the point, it's just the circumstance in which we discovered that those stations lack a safety feature that, even if not legally required, might be expected in lab equipment sold by a reputable manufacturer.

The stupidity of the whole situation is intensified by several factors:
 
  • they use a detachable IEC socket that doesn't discriminate against different voltages
  • the power cord is not provided (source: amazon comments and Farnell listing "Kit Contents")
  • industrial environment is harsh and overvoltages may occur for different reasons, safety margins above regulations are expected (cf Fluke, Agilent etc.)
  • the cost of the safety feature in question is negligible and it is a premium product with high margins
  • in 2018 goods and services are sold and exchanged globally
 

Offline zucca

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #270 on: December 20, 2018, 03:54:34 pm »
You crack me up, as if this topic wasn't already hilarious enough!

When I was living in USA, Greenville, SC one day coming back from work I noticed there was no Internet service/Wifi.
4 minutes later I discovered the Charter Modem had the Main PSU AC120VAC/DC Unit melted, and the lights in my apartment were acting funny.
5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!
6 Minutes later I disconnectted my entire apartment with the main switch.

Duke Energy had to fix a transformer for my area.

We need a main fuse and there is nothing hilarious in this topic, that melted Charter PSU could have started a fire.

Safety seems always funny until something bad happens.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 03:58:55 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline Dataforensics

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #271 on: December 20, 2018, 04:23:51 pm »
For what its worth my very old Weller PS-3D power supply has a user accessible primary fuse specified on the labelling as 0.315A. This is a 50VA 240V/24V 50Hz unit as labelled.
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #272 on: December 20, 2018, 04:36:09 pm »
5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!

Years ago, in my area, electricity went out, then came as 380V instead of 220V, someone connected phase-phase instead of phase-neutral....  and all for the same price
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #273 on: December 20, 2018, 04:42:32 pm »
5 Minutes later I checked the main voltage with my Fluke 87V: 230VAC on the US 110VAC wall sockets!

Years ago, in my area, electricity went out, then came as 380V instead of 220V, someone connected phase-phase instead of phase-neutral....  and all for the same price

Not a good day to be using a Weller soldering iron.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #274 on: December 20, 2018, 05:27:40 pm »


We need a main fuse and there is nothing hilarious in this topic, that melted Charter PSU could have started a fire.




But it didn't start a fire, which is the whole point of the UL testing.

Really the IEC plug should be different, the one with the notch should be used for  ~120v only devices and the one without the notch for ~220 v devices so that you can't plug a 220 cord into a 110 device.
 


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