EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds

[Mr. Scram]

No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...

Thanks for cutting to the chase. It's actually exactly the other way around. The claim is that Weller is doing something incredibly silly or reckless or dangerous. We're get to be presented with any solid evidence for this claim, even though it's reportedly glaringly obvious. Please do so. The audience is waiting. Note that "others do it differently" isn't enough.

[timelessbeing]

No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...

What gave you that idea? I don't represent Weller. It seems they are doing OK without my help.

[Electro Detective]

so all he had to do was 'DOH...!'

Are you intentionally ignoring the obvious? How often does one plugin appliances into the wrong voltage?

Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   

Had it been left unattended and caught fire in a business complex,

Is exaggeration and scaremongering your only argument?

Reply: No chance, but do get into the possibility scenario thing occasionally    
 

[timelessbeing]

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[timelessbeing]

Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   

So how many times has it happened to you?

Reply: No chance, but do get into the possibility scenario thing occasionally    

Ah the "what if" game. That's a fun one.

[Electro Detective]

Might be time to end this alleged witch hunt with a voting poll perhaps ?   

and let the 120 volt users have a concerned vote/say about it 

seeing as they have to wear the fuse-less unit...fingers crossed

 

[timelessbeing]

My god yes! A popularity contest! Why didn't I think of that. Surely that will prove once and for all who is right and who is wrong, because that will definitely happen.
 

[Wolfgang]

Might be time to end this alleged witch hunt with a voting poll perhaps ?   

and let the 120 volt users have a concerned vote/say about it 

seeing as they have to wear the fuse-less unit...fingers crossed

 

Link ?

[Mr. Scram]

My god yes! A popularity contest! Why didn't I think of that. Surely that will prove once and for all who is right and who is wrong, because that will definitely happen.
 

Everyone knows that engineering is about a popular vote. Don't forget to include laymen!

[Wolfgang]

If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?

[Mr. Scram]

If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?

You ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?

[timelessbeing]

If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?

Encore!

[Wolfgang]

If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?

You ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?

Depends on the pilots. With Weller, not so sure. 

[Mr. Scram]

Depends on the pilots. With Weller, not so sure. 

What kind of airlines do you fly with?

[Wolfgang]

I fly only boring ones (having extra low accident ratings). As I told you, I was working in the insurance industry for a long time, so I got a bit risk-averse. moreover, I am a pilot myself (AS350). Old machine design, but very solid. A lot of fuses there 

[Mr. Scram]

I fly only boring ones (having extra low accident ratings). As I told you, I was working in the insurance industry for a long time, so I got a bit risk-averse. moreover, I am a pilot myself (AS350). Old machine design, but very solid. A lot of fuses there 

How many times did your pilots ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?

[Wolfgang]

I was lucky that my flight instructors had all their fuses working. On top of that, I refused to fly with "adventurous" people or people taking shortcuts.
I am still there, some others are not. 

[IanB]

Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   

So how many times has it happened to you?

The first time I've seen it happen was in the 1980's. And I'm sure it's happened many times in the decades since.

Situation: staging/test facility for systems that might be destined for 240 V countries. Therefore both 120 V 60 Hz and 240 V 50 Hz outlets were present and in use. VT 220 terminals have an IEC connector and work on a fixed voltage. VT 220 terminals configured for 120 V don't like being connected to 240 V. They go poof!

[Mr. Scram]

I was lucky that my flight instructors had all their fuses working. On top of that, I refused to fly with "adventurous" people or people taking shortcuts.
I am still there, some others are not. 

So, no passengers were ever asked how to fly the aircraft. That's why a poll isn't a good idea. You almost drifted a bit off-topic there, but we got there in the end.

[Wolfgang]

All wrong. If the pilots have no fuses, it might be all too late to ask. Fuses are all about *prevention*. 

[EEVblog]

if you have made a point somewhere and I didn't respond then either post it again

Three times? Kinda rude.

There are over 800 posts a day on this forum, and this thread alone has 25 pages of posts, I can't possible read them all.
Kinda rude of you to expect an answer from me, so much so, that you had a whinge instead of actually posting a link, I now refuse to do respond to you.

[timelessbeing]

Situation: staging/test facility for systems that might be destined for 240 V countries.

In situation where you might have greater than 0.01% chance of a losing a piece of equipment worth thousands of dollars, the fuse starts to make a lot more sense.

[timelessbeing]

I now refuse to do respond to you.

ok so nothing's changed

I can't possible read them all.
Kinda rude of you to expect an answer from me,

I don't expect you to read them all Dave. That's perfectly understandable.
I expect that don't repeatedly spew the same argument into a discussion that you don't read. 

[floobydust]

... Could someone do an actual experiment to test the assumption that a fuse would help? ...

Measured a 120VAC 60Hz transformer to 190VAC with no load. Past 150VAC it gets very loud.
It is an older Hammond (pre-china) 167M25 rated 25.2VAC 3A 75VA, similar in power to the Weller part but a more conservative build. Primary is 4R 0.77H and secondary 0.3R 50mH.

True input power is about 5W 115VAC going to 90W at 190VAC. Effective turns-ratio did not sag as I expected. I got 42VAC out at 190VAC in, I thought it would eventually clip.

You can see primary current skyrockets from 0.25A at 120VAC, the up to 4A at 190VAC. To 240VAC... I did not release the magic smoke. So a fuse would cover long-term primary overvoltage, a thermal fuse as well with that much heat dissipated in the primary it's heating up.

edit: added 60Hz

[EEVblog]

No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...

Thanks for cutting to the chase. It's actually exactly the other way around. The claim is that Weller is doing something incredibly silly or reckless or dangerous. We're get to be presented with any solid evidence for this claim, even though it's reportedly glaringly obvious. Please do so. The audience is waiting. Note that "others do it differently" isn't enough.

No need for "others do it differently. Weller themselves do it differently!
I don't think many are saying it's dangerous as such, it's clearly not as they countless things don't have mains fuses, and the standard (in this case) do not require it.
But it is demonstrably silly - how so? Not only two videos of mine along with 25 pages of responses on what a silly decision it is, and the equally silly public response, but also the fact that most of Weller's other products have a fuse. Most products of Weller's having a safety feature and then a couple of them that deliberately don't is, well, silly. Especially when they refuse to explain why.