Author Topic: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds  (Read 45956 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #600 on: January 03, 2019, 11:22:18 am »
No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...
Thanks for cutting to the chase. It's actually exactly the other way around. The claim is that Weller is doing something incredibly silly or reckless or dangerous. We're get to be presented with any solid evidence for this claim, even though it's reportedly glaringly obvious. Please do so. The audience is waiting. Note that "others do it differently" isn't enough.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 11:23:59 am by Mr. Scram »
 
The following users thanked this post: drussell

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #601 on: January 03, 2019, 11:22:29 am »
No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...
What gave you that idea? I don't represent Weller. It seems they are doing OK without my help.
 

Offline Electro Detective

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1977
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #602 on: January 03, 2019, 11:28:27 am »


so all he had to do was 'DOH...!'

Are you intentionally ignoring the obvious? How often does one plugin appliances into the wrong voltage?

Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   :clap:




Had it been left unattended and caught fire in a business complex,
Is exaggeration and scaremongering your only argument?

Reply: No chance, but do get into the possibility scenario thing occasionally    :popcorn:
 
 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #603 on: January 03, 2019, 11:31:15 am »
NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.
An optional additional explanation is:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 01:12:34 am by Simon »
 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #604 on: January 03, 2019, 11:34:00 am »
Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   :clap:
So how many times has it happened to you?

Reply: No chance, but do get into the possibility scenario thing occasionally    :popcorn:
Ah the "what if" game. That's a fun one.
 

Offline Electro Detective

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1977
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #605 on: January 03, 2019, 11:39:27 am »

Might be time to end this alleged witch hunt with a voting poll perhaps ?   

and let the 120 volt users have a concerned vote/say about it 

seeing as they have to wear the fuse-less unit...fingers crossed :scared:

 :D

 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #606 on: January 03, 2019, 11:48:52 am »
My god yes! A popularity contest! Why didn't I think of that. Surely that will prove once and for all who is right and who is wrong, because that will definitely happen.
 ::)
 
The following users thanked this post: Mr. Scram

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #607 on: January 03, 2019, 11:58:46 am »

Might be time to end this alleged witch hunt with a voting poll perhaps ?   

and let the 120 volt users have a concerned vote/say about it 

seeing as they have to wear the fuse-less unit...fingers crossed :scared:

 :D



Link ?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #608 on: January 03, 2019, 12:05:06 pm »
My god yes! A popularity contest! Why didn't I think of that. Surely that will prove once and for all who is right and who is wrong, because that will definitely happen.
 ::)
Everyone knows that engineering is about a popular vote. ;D Don't forget to include laymen!
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #609 on: January 03, 2019, 12:06:26 pm »
If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #610 on: January 03, 2019, 12:08:57 pm »
If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?
You ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?
 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #611 on: January 03, 2019, 12:09:08 pm »
If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?
:clap:
Encore!
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #612 on: January 03, 2019, 12:11:01 pm »
If pros can build equipment without fuses, why should'nt laymen vote ?
You ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?

Depends on the pilots. With Weller, not so sure.  >:D
 
The following users thanked this post: Electro Detective

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #613 on: January 03, 2019, 12:20:15 pm »
Depends on the pilots. With Weller, not so sure.  >:D
What kind of airlines do you fly with?
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #614 on: January 03, 2019, 12:25:13 pm »
I fly only boring ones (having extra low accident ratings). As I told you, I was working in the insurance industry for a long time, so I got a bit risk-averse. moreover, I am a pilot myself (AS350). Old machine design, but very solid. A lot of fuses there  :)
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #615 on: January 03, 2019, 12:26:58 pm »
I fly only boring ones (having extra low accident ratings). As I told you, I was working in the insurance industry for a long time, so I got a bit risk-averse. moreover, I am a pilot myself (AS350). Old machine design, but very solid. A lot of fuses there  :)
How many times did your pilots ask the passengers how to fly the aircraft?
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #616 on: January 03, 2019, 12:29:54 pm »
I was lucky that my flight instructors had all their fuses working. On top of that, I refused to fly with "adventurous" people or people taking shortcuts.
I am still there, some others are not.  >:D
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9448
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #617 on: January 03, 2019, 12:31:03 pm »
Reply: not too difficult to do with an appliance fitted with a standard 120/240 IEC socket...   :clap:
So how many times has it happened to you?

The first time I've seen it happen was in the 1980's. And I'm sure it's happened many times in the decades since.

Situation: staging/test facility for systems that might be destined for 240 V countries. Therefore both 120 V 60 Hz and 240 V 50 Hz outlets were present and in use. VT 220 terminals have an IEC connector and work on a fixed voltage. VT 220 terminals configured for 120 V don't like being connected to 240 V. They go poof!
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6905
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #618 on: January 03, 2019, 12:37:51 pm »
I was lucky that my flight instructors had all their fuses working. On top of that, I refused to fly with "adventurous" people or people taking shortcuts.
I am still there, some others are not.  >:D
So, no passengers were ever asked how to fly the aircraft. That's why a poll isn't a good idea. You almost drifted a bit off-topic there, but we got there in the end.
 

Offline Wolfgang

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1111
  • Country: de
  • Its great if it finally works !
    • Electronic Projects for Fun
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #619 on: January 03, 2019, 12:41:05 pm »
All wrong. If the pilots have no fuses, it might be all too late to ask. Fuses are all about *prevention*.  >:D
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28913
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #620 on: January 03, 2019, 12:42:12 pm »
if you have made a point somewhere and I didn't respond then either post it again
Three times? Kinda rude.

There are over 800 posts a day on this forum, and this thread alone has 25 pages of posts, I can't possible read them all.
Kinda rude of you to expect an answer from me, so much so, that you had a whinge instead of actually posting a link, I now refuse to do respond to you.
 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #621 on: January 03, 2019, 12:45:32 pm »
Situation: staging/test facility for systems that might be destined for 240 V countries.

In situation where you might have greater than 0.01% chance of a losing a piece of equipment worth thousands of dollars, the fuse starts to make a lot more sense.
 

Offline timelessbeing

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 779
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #622 on: January 03, 2019, 12:47:00 pm »
I now refuse to do respond to you.
ok so nothing's changed


I can't possible read them all.
Kinda rude of you to expect an answer from me,
I don't expect you to read them all Dave. That's perfectly understandable.
I expect that don't repeatedly spew the same argument into a discussion that you don't read.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 12:51:34 pm by timelessbeing »
 

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2624
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #623 on: January 03, 2019, 12:48:33 pm »
... Could someone do an actual experiment to test the assumption that a fuse would help? ...

Measured a 120VAC 60Hz transformer to 190VAC with no load. Past 150VAC it gets very loud.
It is an older Hammond (pre-china) 167M25 rated 25.2VAC 3A 75VA, similar in power to the Weller part but a more conservative build. Primary is 4R 0.77H and secondary 0.3R 50mH.

True input power is about 5W 115VAC going to 90W at 190VAC. Effective turns-ratio did not sag as I expected. I got 42VAC out at 190VAC in, I thought it would eventually clip.

You can see primary current skyrockets from 0.25A at 120VAC, the up to 4A at 190VAC. To 240VAC... I did not release the magic smoke. So a fuse would cover long-term primary overvoltage, a thermal fuse as well with that much heat dissipated in the primary it's heating up.

edit: added 60Hz
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 07:44:59 am by floobydust »
 
The following users thanked this post: EEVblog, oPossum, SeanB, thm_w, Kean, chris_leyson, Mr. Scram

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28913
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1160 - Weller Responds
« Reply #624 on: January 03, 2019, 12:53:01 pm »
No. Its *your* turn to prove that Wellers decision was not silly. The audience is waiting ...
Thanks for cutting to the chase. It's actually exactly the other way around. The claim is that Weller is doing something incredibly silly or reckless or dangerous. We're get to be presented with any solid evidence for this claim, even though it's reportedly glaringly obvious. Please do so. The audience is waiting. Note that "others do it differently" isn't enough.

No need for "others do it differently. Weller themselves do it differently!
I don't think many are saying it's dangerous as such, it's clearly not as they countless things don't have mains fuses, and the standard (in this case) do not require it.
But it is demonstrably silly - how so? Not only two videos of mine along with 25 pages of responses on what a silly decision it is, and the equally silly public response, but also the fact that most of Weller's other products have a fuse. Most products of Weller's having a safety feature and then a couple of them that deliberately don't is, well, silly. Especially when they refuse to explain why.
 
The following users thanked this post: xrunner, Kean, Wolfgang, floobydust, TheDane


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf