Author Topic: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown  (Read 4727 times)

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Offline apis

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2018, 10:40:31 pm »
I tried to fix a similar automatic espresso machine my brother bought once, turned out there was a little custom irreplaceable plastic thing that couldn't handle the high pressure, so it was BER (is that the correct acronym? "beyond economical repair").

The ground coffee goes into the hole in the brown plastic thing (the one Dave is holding upside down) the piston compresses it and then they pump hot water through it.

I think my old trusty drip brewer makes just as good coffee though, the choice of coffee beans is more critical.
 

Offline helius

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2018, 11:47:39 pm »
beans are ground to a relatively course powder...
A cup uses about 10g of coffee (75 beans).
This may be true for a drip coffee machine. Espresso uses the finest grind (actually it needs a mixture of particle sizes from fine to extremely fine) and 8g for a single or 16g for a double shot.
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2018, 12:02:31 am »
This may be true for a drip coffee machine. Espresso uses the finest grind (actually it needs a mixture of particle sizes from fine to extremely fine) and 8g for a single or 16g for a double shot.

You are right, if I look up the actual terminology it is considered a "fine grind": https://www.coffeegrinderhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/ground-coffee-types.jpg
My judgment was based off other powders, ie it is nowhere near as fine as flour, etc.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2018, 12:21:23 am »
Rough idea on Grind size

Plunger - Raw Sugar
Drip or Pourover - White refined Sugar
Moka Pot (stovetop) - White Sugar to Caster Sugar
Espresso - Table Salt
Turkish/Greek - MUD  ;)

Grind particle distribution for Espresso is a very interesting (and long winded so just a primer) subject. Flat Burrs to Conical burrs yield lower or higher particle distribution respectively. I have a preference for large diameter slow revving flat burrs purely for taste reasons. My big conicals are for slamming out brews in a hurry.

Just for the coffee lovers out there. Good Morning from Oz and my shack  8)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:26:10 am by beanflying »
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Offline Grapsus

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2018, 01:51:22 pm »
Espresso grind is fine but it's not the finest there is, you still want the particles to remain in the filter and have a clear liquid.
On the other hand for turkish style coffee, the beans are literally  reduced to dust and remain suspended in the final drink, so you kind of eat the beans  :o

Also, for a cheap automatic machine like this one, I think the grind size would be coarser than what a barista would do with a separate grinder.
Because oil contents and degree of roast of different beans strongly affect the flow rate when the shot is pulled. With a regular machine, if the grind is too tight, you just waste one shot and adjust it. But with an automatic machine like the one in the video, there is no adjustment and they have to make sure that 99% of the beans on the market will work and not clog the brew unit. That's why I assume they take a safety margin and grind on the coarser side. The downside of this is that most of the time the flow will be too fast which will lower the yield and make the coffee taste watery. In order to compensate for this, the suppliers would use the most dark roast available, so that the burnt and bitter taste hides the lack of extraction. And that's why so much coffee in offices and hotels taste like sewage.
 
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Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2018, 01:47:47 am »
 :palm: :'( :'( :'(
How painful to watch... For me: my sister once made a cup of coffee when she saw that I had stayed up allnight typing up a term paper. I couple of sips and in a short while, I had somehow shaken the wood chair apart and it collapsed on the ground. I then know coffee was not for me.
Only years later, I began to drink coffee, as I was working to my UID. dealing with major projects we would put in huge amount of over time.(and got paid for it 8) .
That was just severl commercial drip coffee machines. cosing about 3K each. and we tried to intensify it using two filters (to slow it down), and tamped the coffee tight (this was just a drip coffeemaker)
After that job, it was years later, when another friend, (I had stopped drinking cooffee), introduced me to premium coffees. I was then hocked, addicted whatever.

The New Lab coffee was just to stay awake and keep going, Then the local bar packed til 2AM (required closing time) to wind down.
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2018, 02:00:29 am »
Now, about why this area has multiple coffee shops along shopping districts. It is foggy here..maybe that is part of it. Pete's coffee started here and across the bay near UCB. It was an employee of Pete's that headed north and started Starbucks Coffee. (i won't go there because of a faulty story..or bad urban legend years ago)

There are soooo, many types of coffee.  Coffee tasters require multiple degrees, and the casual name is coffee "slurpers"  :-DD
I learned recently about one of those guys who, as he described himself mixed race, fascinated with the whole mystique of good coffee, and decided to follow his heritage by going to Yemen to get the perfect coffee beans. Yes, during this war..had to find someone to sneak him out in a small boat into a non-warring nation, then a small trawler to south of France (they were still concerned that if someone renegade, or pirate?) might decide to murder him.

HE now provides a coffeeshop in the the northern part of the city with his coffee (he also stole, or retrieved some plant cuttings), with the beans and they charge $29 per small espresso cup, or expresso.. both are OK around here.
And no I have not gone there..I cringe at the price of Pete's only around $5 or $6 per cup..What can I say, a Scot American raised up with thrifty Chinese Americans...
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2018, 02:09:58 am »
Sorry I am turning this into multiple posts..

To wrap up..coffee is what changed the course of history starting the industrial age. Some Brits "stole" some coffee plants from the near east..and later Turkey..Ottoman's had law not to let it out of the empire...same as German's had law not to reveal how they ground glass for their incredible lense quality.

There is a book called Uncommon Grounds   It is about the history of coffee and the wars fought in the New World, Africa and Europe..mostly financial wars. I read it in one sitting.

The metal and steel versions of this those (commercial grade) run between $5k to $10K USD around here..
What can I say, I am very addicted and love the fact that I am! Everyone I know around here drink coffee, I think the US is the number one coffee drinkers in the world, I believe.
And in this city we eat more ice cream per capita than anywhere else..Go figure ^-^
 

Offline apis

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2018, 03:18:40 am »
I think the US is the number one coffee drinkers in the world, I believe.
And in this city we eat more ice cream per capita than anywhere else..Go figure ^-^
The US drinks a lot of coffee but is not in the top 10. 26'th, at least in 2017, according to this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/countries-that-drink-the-most-coffee/
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2018, 03:40:28 am »
I blame our Pommie (of which I am descended from) lot for diluting our population with TEA :P drinkers for our position on that list.

A bit closer to the truth about getting coffee away from the Ottomans it went in all directions including via Baba Budan into India and beyond into Asia proper. The West has an interesting way of telling the 'truth' sometimes.

The visible apparent Americanization of Coffee with the rise of Charbucks etc and associated marketing of recent history (not in Australia we sent them packing :horse:  :-DD ) has led to self belief in a dominance of directing coffee culture of recent times which isn't the case. Until very recent times (in coffee terms) Espresso wasn't to be found in the USA at all, what was on offer was 'regular' or 'decaff' kept hot for hours drip filter coffee. And that is not to diminish the USA's input into coffee but just to keep it in perspective.

Coffee is an on going world evolution not revolution.

And yep the video itself was more like 'Don't turn it on, take it apart and poke it with a stick so I don't have to touch this stuff'  :-DD Sorry Dave  ;)

EDIT: A good FREE online read or download on coffee us Ukers https://books.google.com.au/books?id=YkftDQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=history+of+coffee&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7xIy8yrLfAhVLro8KHdvnA9AQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20coffee&f=false
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 04:19:29 am by beanflying »
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Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2018, 12:04:55 pm »
I think the US is the number one coffee drinkers in the world, I believe.
And in this city we eat more ice cream per capita than anywhere else..Go figure ^-^
The US drinks a lot of coffee but is not in the top 10. 26'th, at least in 2017, according to this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/countries-that-drink-the-most-coffee/

Interesting. Maybe figures are really old, or I am just wrong. Denmark makes sense. Had a Danish friend who drank coffee from sun up til midnight. He never had a problem sleeping
Surprised Turkey is not in the top ten..Love Turkish coffee..was spoiled by a Turk mother making it.

Regarding US new to espresso...In the1970's new? I remember using one in a restaurant. I coworker discovered that the steamer nozzle worked great to make "fluffy" scrambled eggs. The owner was so impressed he added it to the menu
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2018, 12:19:47 pm »
I blame our Pommie (of which I am descended from) lot for diluting our population with TEA :P drinkers for our position on that list.

A bit closer to the truth about getting coffee away from the Ottomans it went in all directions including via Baba Budan into India and beyond into Asia proper. The West has an interesting way of telling the 'truth' sometimes.

EDIT: A good FREE online read or download on coffee us Ukers https://books.google.com.au/books?id=YkftDQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=history+of+coffee&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7xIy8yrLfAhVLro8KHdvnA9AQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20coffee&f=false

Thanks!
 I went to Project Gutenberg. public domain download, plus some other interesting titles!

And yes, I went and made myself some coffee after the above posts  |O

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/
 

Online beanflying

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2018, 12:23:01 pm »
When I went to the USA for the first time about 25 years ago for a few weeks work I never saw an Espresso machine and was offered Filter only from Diners to up market Restaurants and Hotels. New York I suspect (didn't go there) may have been different but the Italians immigrants maybe didn't spread out as far or fast?

It's the major reason Charbucks failed in Oz we had Espresso arrive in the very early 50's with the Italians after WW2. By the time they tried Espresso based coffee was very widespread across the entire country including small country towns and filter was dead apart from at home. They totally misread our coffee culture trying burnt coffee with syrups in 20 oz buckets against the growing 3rd wave roasters that were well established.

Scrambled eggs with the steamer is an old one and while it works great as someone who repairs machines egg blobs up the steam tube is not cool or healthy :P
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Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2018, 12:33:52 pm »

Scrambled eggs with the steamer is an old one and while it works great as someone who repairs machines egg blobs up the steam tube is not cool or healthy :P
:-DD :-DD
we were careful not to  stick the steamer nozzle into the egg mix, after learning what a mess it made |O
 maybe it's San Francisco. Chinatown, Little Italy, etc, etc....
Frick this thread!!
Now I am binge watching youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/wholelattelovetv/videos  :palm:
 

Offline apis

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2018, 05:34:20 pm »
Had a Danish friend who drank coffee from sun up til midnight. He never had a problem sleeping
In Sweden (and I believe the rest of Scandinavia) most workplaces have coffee breaks (or "fika" which implies coffee) two times a-day, and often coffee after lunch and, of course, people drink coffee in the morning (the adults anyway). At all the workplaces I've been to there has always been a drip brewer in the break room. People used to joke when having been on work-trips to the US that at first they didn't understand why they always got tea when ordering coffee.

I blame our Pommie (of which I am descended from) lot for diluting our population with TEA :P drinkers for our position on that list.
I like tea too, but conversely it's hard to get decent tea here, you have to go to specialist tea shops.

Until very recent times (in coffee terms) Espresso wasn't to be found in the USA at all, what was on offer was 'regular' or 'decaff' kept hot for hours drip filter coffee.
Even though we drink a lot of coffee it used to be the same here, and it is still mostly drip brewers (in the north they sometimes drink 'kokkaffe' which used to be the most common method of brewing: you just boil coarsely ground coffee and water and then let the coffee beans sediment). Espresso was something fancy you could get in Italy. In recent years that has changed, thanks to the EU and globalisation I suppose.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2018, 07:45:07 pm »
In Sweden (and I believe the rest of Scandinavia) most workplaces have coffee breaks (or "fika" which implies coffee) two times a-day, and often coffee after lunch and, of course, people drink coffee in the morning (the adults anyway). At all the workplaces I've been to there has always been a drip brewer in the break room. People used to joke when having been on work-trips to the US that at first they didn't understand why they always got tea when ordering coffee.

I have never seen a company with coffee breaks, but you can fetch a cup of coffee from the machine any time you want. This may be because the companies I know do not do any assembly line work, i.e. a few minute break (Depending on the coffee machine) is not a problem.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2018, 07:59:48 pm »
May as well fully drag this thread sideways with 'some' of the toys. Need a brewed coffee?

Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 
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Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2018, 03:47:40 am »
I

THEIR IS NO X IN ESPRESSO !!!!!!!!!  :-DD

There is if you are talking about a model of the Plymouth Neon car. I made the dealer remove those decals on mine, because I refused to drive a misspelling.
 :-DD

 
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Offline Wollvieh

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2018, 07:37:55 pm »
Well, if you like coffee and think "the more expensive, the better" just look up what the most expensive coffee in the world (like 300 $€ a pound) Kopi Luwak is made of...

It's all about the vibe... in the pump. If you are a bit into those machines (I once saved a medium class one from the dumpster and got it working with new parts for 10€ and an afternoon of repair) Dave's tear down of the rip off (which is more a rip down and tear off ;D) hurts as if you would see a Barista tearing down some vintage tube amplifier he found in the dumpster. "Oh look at those glassy thingos with metal legs like a bug! You cant pour coffee in and when you smash them it makes 'poof'. What's that sign, 'EL34' no idea, don't like music...."

But well there are people out there just buying new Weller soldering stations only to destroy the transformer ;D (and thus making the world a bit more safe.)

3 Thermal fuses in Hardware and one Software sensor multiplied by 2 heating elements in this (not!) El Cheapo coffee grinder vs. 0 thermal and 0 electrical protection in a once well reputated soldering station. Legally maybe 1 Klixon and a sticker "don't leave unattended" would have been enough to get UL-grade coffee, but "even" the chinese did better.

In fact I think "made in China" may change in less then a decade or maybe two to a quality symbol, at least for certain brands. Like it happened 100 years ago in the history of the "made in Germany"-tag once intended to tell poor quality German products from great british ones and coming back like a boomerang. Oh wait, what's that country where Weller once produced their stuff...?
 
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Offline TheNewLab

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2018, 10:52:28 am »
Dave's tear down of the rip off (which is more a rip down and tear off ;D) hurts as if you would see a Barista tearing down some vintage tube amplifier he found in the dumpster. "Oh look at those glassy things with metal legs like a bug! You cant pour coffee in and when you smash them it makes 'poof'. What's that sign, 'EL34' no idea, don't like music...."


 :-DD :-DD
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 04:59:45 pm by TheNewLab »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2018, 12:51:18 pm »
Now, decent Greek coffee is something to enjoy. I often tell baristas I want my coffee served strong, as in you give a knife and fork with it to consume it.
 

Offline James27

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2019, 11:01:08 am »
Wow that is a nice technology used by coffee machine makers.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2019, 05:17:18 pm »
Wow that is a nice technology used by coffee machine makers.

And it took you nearly a year to wrk that out? Having looked at your email I suggest you consider very carefully you next posts!
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2019, 05:39:09 pm »
Wow that is a nice technology used by coffee machine makers.

And it took you nearly a year to wrk that out? Having looked at your email I suggest you consider very carefully you next posts!

To be fair, it looks like he just arrived here.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: EEVblog #1161- Automated Coffee Machine Dumpster Teardown
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2019, 05:45:54 pm »
To be fair you have not seen his email address.
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 


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