They will not oxidize in 20 years too.
This SOLUS device is NOT a convection heater, it does not emit heat directly (only to a lesser degree).
Our unique heating technology works with both traditional convection based heating as well as infra-red heating, meaning that each SOLUS unit can heat a 15m2 space with up to 20x less power usage.
Instead it is just another Infrared Light emitter. IR light will create heat only in the single bodies which receive this IR light, but will heat up the room only indirectly and partially.
Therefore, one can't compare IR directly with convection heating, especially not in terms of efficiency.
That's the core statement to debunk, and the scientifically bad temperature measurement / comparison they did.
It is also clear that EEVblog has no response besides crude gestures to this statement “we have found that raising the temperature of our heating element is most effective through supply of non constant/pulsed electric current. It works in the following way, the heating element is supplied with 1.5 seconds of electric current and is then cut off from supply for another 1.5 seconds. This process is repeated until the heater reaches it’s maximum temperature. We observed that during the off cycle (1.5 seconds when current is cut off) the heating element continues to generate heat due to the self cooling properties of graphene, which results in a difference of potentials.”
And we have a response!I think this guy should ask his money back from the school he went to. It seems they skipped basic physics. :palm:
They seem to be claiming the graphene magically produces heat during the off-cycle!QuoteIt is also clear that EEVblog has no response besides crude gestures to this statement “we have found that raising the temperature of our heating element is most effective through supply of non constant/pulsed electric current. It works in the following way, the heating element is supplied with 1.5 seconds of electric current and is then cut off from supply for another 1.5 seconds. This process is repeated until the heater reaches it’s maximum temperature. We observed that during the off cycle (1.5 seconds when current is cut off) the heating element continues to generate heat due to the self cooling properties of graphene, which results in a difference of potentials.”
I've read a lot on how Graphene is suppose to replace silicone in transistors to make them smaller and more heat efficient in the manufacture of LSI circuits like Intel processors with transistors less 10 manometers in size. This would make more sense to me than using Graphene to heat a roomGraphene is the buzz word to get research funding, that's the magic behind it. Others that (used to) work: carbon nanotubes, bucky balls, 2D materials, perovskite, nano pillars, ... Graphene has some interesting properties, but it's honestly not worth the effort to bother with in most cases. The interesting properties require a perfect crystalline structure spanning large surface areas. And a single layer of atoms ain't exactly the strongest thing in the world, so it's quite sensitive to the conditions it's used in. And applying protective layers also causes issues. That being said, I need some quick money. I am going to coat steaks in nano-graphene (aka, I'll put them in a smoker) and sell them as nanotechnology steaks. Please sponsor me on kickstarter! :-DD
Please look up infrared heating panels. It is not about the BTUs, it is about the comfort. A room with convection heating is comfortable at around 22 Celsius. While the sun is shining, you can be outside ins shorts in 15 degrees, because the sun directly heats you with IR. There are many restaurants here, where people eat outside in the snow, because there is an IR heater.This SOLUS device is NOT a convection heater, it does not emit heat directly (only to a lesser degree).
There will be natural convection due to the heat ultimately rising. And they claim is also does convection.
Also, wouldn't tempered glass (which is most of the thermal mass of this thing) be horrible as heat reservoir?
Please look up infrared heating panels. It is not about the BTUs, it is about the comfort. A room with convection heating is comfortable at around 22 Celsius. While the sun is shining, you can be outside ins shorts in 15 degrees, because the sun directly heats you with IR. There are many restaurants here, where people eat outside in the snow, because there is an IR heater.
It is not magic, but most of the heat is not emitted as BTU, but infrared, which doesn't heat the air, instead it bounces around in the room, and heats the objects and you. The radiator is not the same, as the regular heaters operate at around 60-70 degrees, and emit most energy as BTU, while IR heater operates at higher temperature.
Our unique heating technology works with both traditional convection based heating as well as infra-red heating, meaning that each SOLUS unit can heat a 15m2 space with up to 20x less power usage.
It is not going to be 95% better. But it works, it is installed at my parents, I've been to hotels that only had this heating. The glass doesnt matter, because it is just translucent to IR.
It is not going to produce more heat. It makes the room comfortable with less energy. Maybe it reduces losses.
And it is not an excuse for all the bullshit they rack up.
Lastly, your comment with regards to our ability to deliver this product. As stated in the campaign page, we already have working models and a production line that is producing 2000 units per month, we only came to Kickstarter, to raise the capital to expand our production process and make the product more widely available to the general public around the world.
QuoteLastly, your comment with regards to our ability to deliver this product. As stated in the campaign page, we already have working models and a production line that is producing 2000 units per month, we only came to Kickstarter, to raise the capital to expand our production process and make the product more widely available to the general public around the world.
They are already making 2000 units a month!
Yet they, by their own admission in the comments and updates are only now doing actual room testing and are in the process of sending it out to independent test houses :palm:
For infrared heaters, the room’s volume is not relevant, but the actual area of the enclosure. Usually, this includes the four walls, floor and ceiling. To simplify your calculation, we limit the whole thing to the base surface, i.e. the size of the room. To do this, you need the length and width of the room. Suppose the room is 6 metres x 5 metres, that equates a room size of 30 m². These 30 m² of floor space are now multiplied with an *output value of 75 Watt per m² (up to 2.60 m height). Amounts to: 30m² x 75 Watt/m² = 2250 Watt.Therefore, you need a heating capacity of 2250 Watt. You can now choose these as either 2 x 900 Watt + 1 x 450 Watt = 2250 Watt or as 2 x 1200 Watt = 2400 Watt.Higher wattage does not mean that more power is consumed. On the contrary, this rather results in faster heating, so that the infrared heater is shut off earlier.Please note that this output figure of 75 Watt/m² was calculated based on a ceiling height of up to 2.60m. Should the room be higher, add an additional output value of 5 Watt/m² per 5 cm. At a ceiling height of 3 metres, that would equate an additional 40 Watt. The result would be an *output level of 115 Watt/m². Multiplied with the floor area, 30 m² in this example, this amounts to: 30 m² x 115 Watt/m² = 3450 Watt.Depending on the angles and corners of the room, you can now choose your matching heating panels. Thus a room in an L-shape requires at least 2 panels as a single panel’s rays would not reach the entire space. This can be clearly seen by shining a torch from a corner in the room. For not all walls are illuminated. Light is a ray after all and radiation heat works the same way. Using a second torch, you can now light up the entire room.Please note the impact radius of 3.50 meters. A torch loses its brightness the further away it is from the illuminated object. Infrared rays lose their intensity at a range of around 3-4 meters resulting in long heating periods.For rooms that are subject to greater humidity, such as bathrooms, for example, simply calculate twice the dimensions. That way, you will experience your baths like a swim in the sea. You won't freeze despite having wet skin. That is the advantage of infrared heating.
So yeah, you're only going to need at least 5 of the large Solus panels for the average sized living room. :-DD
But, but, graphene!
I wonder how much is actually true about the graphene claim. Regular carbon will do just fine to make a resistive element. Another thing that would worry me is how long the product will last. The repeated heat & cold cycles will likely crack the paste at some point.So yeah, you're only going to need at least 5 of the large Solus panels for the average sized living room. :-DDBut, but, graphene!
In this case: Yes, electric heaters are more efficient in converting electric energy into heat radiation than heating water -> pumping water through a pipe system -> transfering heat from water filled radiators to the surrounding air. Of course they are comparing apples and pears...
did you go over the safety aspect of having a cool artsy looking glass panel heated to 100c on a bench top or wall?
like i said thats going to burn small children and animals
It's like hanging a fucking griddle in your living room ?? who does that? did people lose their senses since the 1970's because of apple (they used to have cages on these things to mitigate burns and surface area of burns. Even for a new life form that thermal air currents and red hotness of the heating elements in a conventional heater seems at least suspicious or interesting enough to slow down (usually scary unless someone is really out there). This is like a booby trap.
I don't know about Australia, but in the US heating with gas is typically far cheaper than heating with electricity. (Unless you've got electricity from your own solar/wind setup that is going to waste.)
My 1950's era 20,000 BTU natural gas top-vent wall heater is cheaper to use than any electric heating solution.
can a piece of cast iron fall off the wall because someone decided to hang it on sheet rock hooks (that are not even installed properly) or fall on you because its positioned on a wobbly table? People probably won't even look for studs. It will prob be mounted on a painting string.There's always some loss at the side. ;D
Those things weigh like 200 LB plus. IT's a different story. Those things kids avoid because it even look slike you will get hurt if you run next to it and bump into it because of kinetic energy alone (kids seem to realize this). Stoves just look dangerous. And they look scary (think home alone basement scene where he is always scared of the furnace).
This thing is small, quiet, does not smell, etc. And it can fall on you because its low mass.
I was around one of those too. I spent some time in a very very very ancient house when I was young in europe. But its different then a thin cool looking object (polished metal, glass, etc) being roaring hot.
Kid's already get hurt by TV's falling on them. But now imagine a TV @ 100C+. :scared:
For example, consider a coil of wire, heated by current passing through it. Now put that coil of wire in a vacuum effectively stopping convection and conduction, what happens to the wire? The answer is, it probably melts! If you put 100W of electrical energy in, the resistance of that wire turns that into 100 watts of heat, and if that heat cannot escape as fast as it is being put in, the temperature of the wire will climb, eventually till it melts. This is because thermal transfer is driven by the thermal impedance AND the difference in temperature. This should be obvious!So make the wire out of tungsten in order to withstand the high temperatures. And rather than a plain glass bottle, shape it and aluminum coat part of it in order to reflect the heat in one direction. Those at least used to be available in stores (probably still are in many places), but some are trying to ban them for "poor efficiency".
at which point your radiator has still a lot of heat stored, so in the end you're going to over-heat your room and you've needlessly wasted electric power. If you have less "thermal mass" in the radiator, you can get away with less redundant heating, hence being "more efficient" (economically, not physically).
I'm pretty sure this is the theory behind Solus, but of course any decent PID regulator could take care of the above problem even with traditional oil radiators. The problem is: most mobile radiators don't come with one. Most don't even come with a regulator at all (just a static power level knob), and those that do, do simple target-temperature-threshold switching and have no PID control. Solus, being a low-thermal-mass radiator, could probably create a more accurately working PID regulator for it, and that is where the operating-cost advantage should come from.No. A room is likely to have way more thermal mass than a tiny radiator. And even if the radiator works longer than necessary the temperature will go up and only when it drops below the setpoint the radiator will be switched on again. There will be no loss in efficiency. Just less comfortable due to larger temperature variations.
at which point your radiator has still a lot of heat stored, so in the end you're going to over-heat your room and you've needlessly wasted electric power. If you have less "thermal mass" in the radiator, you can get away with less redundant heating, hence being "more efficient" (economically, not physically).
I think it does not matter. You have a mean temperature, and your temperature control loop and maybe, in your case with the high thermal mass, a regulator oscillation. But for the averaged mean temperature you need the same amount of energy, no matter what you do. The needed amount of energy is always proportional to the thermal conductivity of your room to the cold air outside.
Insulation therefore is the only thing that helps. In my case i like the insulation as near as possible to the body, sweaters and socks and so on.
I'm pretty sure this is the theory behind Solus, but of course any decent PID regulator could take care of the above problem even with traditional oil radiators. The problem is: most mobile radiators don't come with one. Most don't even come with a regulator at all (just a static power level knob), and those that do, do simple target-temperature-threshold switching and have no PID control. Solus, being a low-thermal-mass radiator, could probably create a more accurately working PID regulator for it, and that is where the operating-cost advantage should come from.No. A room is likely to have way more thermal mass than a tiny radiator. And even if the radiator works longer than necessary the temperature will go up and only when it drops below the setpoint the radiator will be switched on again. There will be no loss in efficiency. Just less comfortable due to larger temperature variations.
can a piece of cast iron fall off the wall because someone decided to hang it on sheet rock hooks (that are not even installed properly) or fall on you because its positioned on a wobbly table? People probably won't even look for studs. It will prob be mounted on a painting string.There's always some loss at the side. ;D
Those things weigh like 200 LB plus. IT's a different story. Those things kids avoid because it even look slike you will get hurt if you run next to it and bump into it because of kinetic energy alone (kids seem to realize this). Stoves just look dangerous. And they look scary (think home alone basement scene where he is always scared of the furnace).
This thing is small, quiet, does not smell, etc. And it can fall on you because its low mass.
I was around one of those too. I spent some time in a very very very ancient house when I was young in europe. But its different then a thin cool looking object (polished metal, glass, etc) being roaring hot.
Kid's already get hurt by TV's falling on them. But now imagine a TV @ 100C+. :scared:
You also have people who are stupid enough to put up a dresser without a safety strap, if the primary argument is "think about the children" we should only allow padded objects to exist.
I did not mean to use this as a valid (sane) example in terms of actual thermo dynamics, but to illustrate how their thought process might have been to come up with the crazy claims.
Maybe I should have phrased it differently: If you compare their product to a water based heating system and only count the amount of heat that directly affects the room you are doing the calculations on, you *might* be able to 'prove' the claims.
SOLUS will save you approximately 80% off the cost of your heating (compared with conventional water based radiators) and over 95% off the cost of your heating (if you heat your home with other electric radiators).
did you go over the safety aspect of having a cool artsy looking glass panel heated to 100c on a bench top or wall?
like i said thats going to burn small children and animals
It's like hanging a fucking griddle in your living room ?? who does that? did people lose their senses since the 1970's because of apple (they used to have cages on these things to mitigate burns and surface area of burns. Even for a new life form that thermal air currents and red hotness of the heating elements in a conventional heater seems at least suspicious or interesting enough to slow down (usually scary unless someone is really out there). This is like a booby trap.
I burned my hand like hell when I was little because I decided to climb all over a semi truck and touched the vertical mufflers, at least that was hard to get to. If I had one of these in the living room I would probably look like two face.
Even simple electric heaters with mechanical switches have a small enough hysteresis to keep the temperature constant enough in a room. And again: the thermal mass of any radiator will be much lower than the room and everything which is in it. The situation you are sketching is purely hypothetical; it doesn't exist in the real world.You didn't fully get what I said.I'm pretty sure this is the theory behind Solus, but of course any decent PID regulator could take care of the above problem even with traditional oil radiators. The problem is: most mobile radiators don't come with one. Most don't even come with a regulator at all (just a static power level knob), and those that do, do simple target-temperature-threshold switching and have no PID control. Solus, being a low-thermal-mass radiator, could probably create a more accurately working PID regulator for it, and that is where the operating-cost advantage should come from.No. A room is likely to have way more thermal mass than a tiny radiator. And even if the radiator works longer than necessary the temperature will go up and only when it drops below the setpoint the radiator will be switched on again. There will be no loss in efficiency. Just less comfortable due to larger temperature variations.
As you say you can expect higher temperature variations with a large thermal mass radiator (though this need not necessarily be the case, it is far from unlikely). That will cause the user to set a higher target temperature, so that even in the "cold" phases of the regulation the user won't feel cold. This means a higher average temperature, which means higher electric consumption.
I mean, when you start combing hot, top heavy, fragile (glass) and poor support by design and by sales recommendation you are really really starting to ask for trouble. You usually only have only two of those.
Like a waffle iron is pretty dangerous in one regard but its heavy, sits well on a table top, does not have incredible surface area, etc.
I mean and their also lying their ass completely off with all the thermal bullshit. Its just a nice looking heater thats IMO dangerous for a home.
Like I swear if you hung a griddle off your wall I don't think you would feel too safe in that room?
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/6b1af743-ee73-4a15-87f3-038074f540d4_1.e68348220fd6ddc874aebbc4119380ca.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
Like seriously think about it. Is that a good idea to do in the home, to hang a griddle on the wall like its a painting? or have it sit on a coffee table like a flat screen TV?
Do you have like a loaded bear trap on your coffee table as a display piece or something?
Or rather, I failed to see anything, because 200-300-400W is NOTHING, it's simply not enough.The radiated heat coming off a 75W reflector incandescent bulb is quite significant, and those are commonly available up to 250W for actual heating applications. Put it on a dimmer to throttle it to exactly what's needed and that would increase the lifetime substantially.
Solus claimed factory address, seams to be some worn out sovjet era shoe manufacturing building
Solus claimed factory address, seams to be some worn out sovjet era shoe manufacturing building:It's actually pretty common to see old 'soviet era' buildings and manufacturing plants re-purposed for this kind of thing - renting out to small companies, even with multiple companies sharing the same building.
Yes i know that, but i wanted to induce some more bad vibes for those in the west who dont know about Sovjet! >:DQuoteSolus claimed factory address, seams to be some worn out sovjet era shoe manufacturing building:It's actually pretty common to see old 'soviet era' buildings and manufacturing plants re-purposed for this kind of thing - renting out to small companies, even with multiple companies sharing the same building.
=SiliconWizard link=topic=172401.msg2236977#msg2236977 date=1551579173]
Looking at this company for instance:
https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste (https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste)
looks like the form of graphene as a paste is typically used as thermal paste. I can see how it has high thermal conductivity, but I'm not sure how it would act as an heating element at this point (but I must admit I haven't looked at Solus' claims extensively as the 95% off was already hilarious.)
Quote=SiliconWizard link=topic=172401.msg2236977#msg2236977 date=1551579173]
Looking at this company for instance:
https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste (https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste)
looks like the form of graphene as a paste is typically used as thermal paste. I can see how it has high thermal conductivity, but I'm not sure how it would act as an heating element at this point (but I must admit I haven't looked at Solus' claims extensively as the 95% off was already hilarious.)
Strange how the definition of one single atom layer of carbons suddenly is misused to turn it into a paste. ::) While it for past 50 years been labeled as graphite paste. Perhaps sales goes up?! The Noble price in 2010 for graphene:
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2010/press-release/ (https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2010/press-release/)
(https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/5204165/236180873.jpg)
Please join my kickstarter for μWave™ heater that will save you 80% of your wasteful Solus heater electricity usage. It will use 38 watts of microwave energy to directly heat the people in the room without wasting energy heating the surrounding air and walls. Sign up for the premium package and we will include aluminium foil wallpaper for your walls to stop the microwaves escaping. ;p
Engagelink SA is a Digital Integrator based in Switzerland and operating across Europe.https://www.engagelink.net/about.html (https://www.engagelink.net/about.html)
The Head Office is located in Lausanne, Canton Vaud.
We are specialized in all possible integrations of digital platforms of any kind. Currently,
we provide mobile infotainment solutions and digital signage for major clinic groups in
Switzerland, as well as multi-touch table solutions for worldwide aviation lounges in some
of the most important airports.
We combine precision and highest quality with flexible, fast and custom-tailored solutions.
We are engaging Swiss quality and innovative technologies in a digital world. Our main goal
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Well, he seems like a real person: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximinterbrick (https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximinterbrick)
Well, he seems like a real person: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximinterbrick (https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximinterbrick)
No doubt of that. But don't you wonder what his real name might be, after the authorities catch up with him?
You want to save on heating? Let's use a little science. Supposing your room is spherical, the heater is in the center, the thermal properties are homogeneous (doors and windows have the same properties of walls) and you are a reptile, this could be an equivalent thermal circuit.Actually there are rules of thumb to calculate the amount of power required for to heat a room:
You want to save on heating? Let's use a little science. Supposing your room is spherical, the heater is in the center, the thermal properties are homogeneous (doors and windows have the same properties of walls) and you are a reptile, this could be an equivalent thermal circuit.Actually there are rules of thumb to calculate the amount of power required for to heat a room:
living room / office: 80W / m^3
bathroom: 90W / m^3
other rooms: 65W / m^3
BTW I'm not sold on the 'glass is a thermal insulator' argument. The surface area is huge (think why glazing is usually double and the trend is to go for triple). The argument is just as useless as (for example) comparing the conductivity of steel versus copper without taking the actual size of the conductor into account.
Why the number 8 appears so much in these sorts of products..?The octavo may be involved. eight son of an eight son and all that stuff you know ...
You're overthinking the problems with this thing.You want to save on heating? Let's use a little science. Supposing your room is spherical, the heater is in the center, the thermal properties are homogeneous (doors and windows have the same properties of walls) and you are a reptile, this could be an equivalent thermal circuit.Actually there are rules of thumb to calculate the amount of power required for to heat a room:
living room / office: 80W / m^3
bathroom: 90W / m^3
other rooms: 65W / m^3
BTW I'm not sold on the 'glass is a thermal insulator' argument. The surface area is huge (think why glazing is usually double and the trend is to go for triple). The argument is just as useless as (for example) comparing the conductivity of steel versus copper without taking the actual size of the conductor into account.
Is there really no comeback against scammers and/or fantasists on Kickstarter?It isn't unique to or new since KS came into being. This sort of thing has existed and will exist as long as people exist who want to believe it.
Is there really no comeback against scammers and/or fantasists on Kickstarter?
Their UK site has a more elaborate calculator (https://www.herschel-infrared.co.uk/customer-service/calculate-requirements/). There, thermal insulation of the room is important. I chose cavity brick walls, single glazed windows, roof, floor and ceiling, all uninsulated. For a 12m² room with 4 external walls, and 4m² glazed area, they recommended four 700W panels, i.e. 2800W.
I said earlier that the heater's thermal resistance was important. But it isn't. I mean, it is for the designer of the heater who needs to maintain its internal temperature under the specs. But not for the user. The user only cares about the temperature of the room. So as long as your heater dissipates all the incoming energy as heat in the room, the efficiency of the system is only a function of the thermal insulation of the room.
So, Solus' claims are totally unfounded in many levels.
Good grief:
(https://i.imgur.com/AxyYfin.png).
Good grief:
(https://i.imgur.com/AxyYfin.png).
Well, techically, graphite is multiple layers of... graphene. ;DQuote=SiliconWizard link=topic=172401.msg2236977#msg2236977 date=1551579173]
Looking at this company for instance:
https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste (https://www.theglobalgraphenegroup.com/thermal-paste)
looks like the form of graphene as a paste is typically used as thermal paste. I can see how it has high thermal conductivity, but I'm not sure how it would act as an heating element at this point (but I must admit I haven't looked at Solus' claims extensively as the 95% off was already hilarious.)
Strange how the definition of one single atom layer of carbons suddenly is misused to turn it into a paste. ::) While it for past 50 years been labeled as graphite paste. Perhaps sales goes up?! The Noble price in 2010 for graphene:
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2010/press-release/ (https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2010/press-release/)
(https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/5204165/236180873.jpg)
Graphene itself is nothing new, it was theorized in the 60s (or even earlier)? And the term coined in the 80s I think.
Good grief:That is a terrible answer indeed, completely not understanding physics.
Is there really no comeback against scammers and/or fantasists on Kickstarter?
Yes, you an report it, but it has to be completely obvious to the non-technical reviewer at KS, or the floods of reports has to be so overwhelming that they have no choice.
That doesn't seem quite true. Graphene pastes (as graphite pastes) are primarily made of flakes, indeed, in suspension, pretty much as many other kinds of pastes AFAIK. What exactly are one-layer flakes and how they are produced, I don't know. Not my field.Thats why you draw the wrong conclusions that graphene is a paste who cant be "per the definition" it got back in 1961. Paste is 3 D graphene is 2 D.
AFAIK again, current uses of graphene in many projects is actually in the form of pastes. Whether this really makes sense or gives a clear benefit is kinda outside of my area of expertise, I'm not a chemist, but there are numerous scientific articles out there, some apparently published through reputable journals.There are no such thing as reputable journalists only fake news.
The fact that the compound itself seems to exist (as being defined by flakes in suspension and whatever it really is good for)as said already the definition of graphene is that of a single layer of carbon atoms, cut that sheet up and its not graphene anymore, this per the definition of graphene. But then comes the question how small or large has a sheet of graphene to be to be called graphene? ;)
Kickstarter Trust & Safety. :-DD
How can making 100% false claims, and using nonsense "190 Watts per hour" not be against KS rules, are they admitting false claims are OK.
Well, if Kickstarter is not taking down obvious scams despite being warned by the engineering/scientific community, we can only conclude that they are in on it and are opening themselves up to class action lawsuits down the road. All it will take is for a creative lawyer to do the math on this...
Probably. Doing some calculations on projects and checking if the claims are valid from a legal point of view is a massive job. Still I think Kickstarter will have to do this at some point. Probably they will be forced by government agencies dealing with shares and securities. Larger websites like Facebook, Youtube, Google, etc have large teams dealing with judging which content is appropriate and which is not.Well, if Kickstarter is not taking down obvious scams despite being warned by the engineering/scientific community, we can only conclude that they are in on it and are opening themselves up to class action lawsuits down the road. All it will take is for a creative lawyer to do the math on this...
I expect them to eventually use an excuse like "We don't want to stifle true innovation", and of course the classic "they laughed at the Wright brothers" line.
Maybe not having someone on staff with the knowledge to make a call on technical stuff like this is a deliberate move?
If your project is successfully funded, the following fees will be collected from your funding total: Kickstarter’s 5% fee, and payment processing fees (between 3% and 5%). If funding isn’t successful, there are no fees.
I suspect Solus will simply realise their chances of succeeding with this scam is slim to none and will cleanse their campaign and remove references to "most efficient radiator in the world" and all mentions of graphene generating heat after power is disconnected.
I suspect Solus will simply realise their chances of succeeding with this scam is slim to none and will cleanse their campaign and remove references to "most efficient radiator in the world" and all mentions of graphene generating heat after power is disconnected.
I'm wouldn't be so sure. Many people who run these kinds of things do genuinely believe in what they are doing actually works.
Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.(underline added)
Technical claims aside, someone may have realized that this rule was probably being violated:QuoteProjects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.(underline added)
Electric radiant heaters are all over the place, as a simple search will demonstrate.
This is now tricky business because it possibly puts some sort of legal liability on Kickstarter if they suspend it, evaluate the claims, and then reinstate it?
Well, if Kickstarter is not taking down obvious scams despite being warned by the engineering/scientific community, we can only conclude that they are in on it and are opening themselves up to class action lawsuits down the road. All it will take is for a creative lawyer to do the math on this...
I expect them to eventually use an excuse like "We don't want to stifle true innovation", and of course the classic "they laughed at the Wright brothers" line.
Maybe not having someone on staff with the knowledge to make a call on technical stuff like this is a deliberate move?
Maxim Interbrick is a rather unique name...
https://www.fbomedia.ch/about-us/ (https://www.fbomedia.ch/about-us/)
https://blueskynews.aero/issue_260/ClearChannel_and_Adlux_create_first_global_private_aviation_digital_advertising_network.htm (https://blueskynews.aero/issue_260/ClearChannel_and_Adlux_create_first_global_private_aviation_digital_advertising_network.htm)
https://www.engagelink.net/about.html (https://www.engagelink.net/about.html)
This certainly seems like an oddball group.
This Maxim guy who is a media networking promotions blah blah guy, another marketing/strategy guy in the UK, and who else?
They are probably just subtracting out the whole shebang
Yep, it's been suspended with 10 hours left
Doesn't mean it's cancelled, I suspect they are going to ask Solus to prove their claims.
This is now tricky business because it possibly puts some sort of legal liability on Kickstarter if they suspend it, evaluate the claims, and then reinstate it?
Maybe they have some threshold, like ignore less than 10 reports and only then take a look at the project.
Someone should tell them that it doesn't need a scientist who specialized in thermodynamics. Just any high school student could tell them that they are wrong and could measure it. But easiest for them would be to watch Dave's video. And first step for them would be to buy a introduction physics book so that they don't write nonsense like "watts per hour" (still in the FAQ of their Kickstarter).
If they are willing to send units for testing, it means they are not simply scammers, but truly delusional.
Their test video where Solus needs only 66% compared to an oil heater is bullshit, because they measured the temperature only once at the beginning and then once after 24 hours. So probably the oil heater has heated the room to 20°C in an hour, and then maintained this for the other 23 hours, but we don't know how long Solus needed to reach this temperature. He even says in the video that it is more effective if you do the test for a week. Sure, if you want to freeze for 6 days until it gets to 20°C at day 7, then Solus is perfect for you and it might even work for bigger rooms :-DD
[…] Sure, if you want to freeze for 6 days until it gets to 20°C at day 7, then Solus is perfect for you and it might even work for bigger roomsUnfortunately this thinking is as flawed as the criticized product itself. If SOLUS is capable of going to 21°C in 7 days, it is capable of maintaining it indefinitely¹ later, using no more energy that it did for the initial heating. Therefore even if the oil heater is faster, with SOLUS you could just heat int up once and never turn it off through the cold saeson².
I'm not sure if they are only delusional or scammers.Probably the former. This is why I was earlier trying to imagine, what they are actually believing in.
Quote from: FrankBuss[…] Sure, if you want to freeze for 6 days until it gets to 20°C at day 7, then Solus is perfect for you and it might even work for bigger roomsUnfortunately this thinking is as flawed as the criticized product itself. If SOLUS is capable of going to 21°C in 7 days, it is capable of maintaining it indefinitely¹ later, using no more energy that it did for the initial heating. Therefore even if the oil heater is faster, with SOLUS you could just heat int up once and never turn it off through the cold saeson².
In this crude video, they measure the energy (i.e. the paid work) in kW, confusing it with power, that's also clearly misspelled in all these overview tables.
Real power dissipation and switch on/off profile of the convection heater, and the SOLUS panel is also not measured and transparent to the viewer.
Therefore, you can't even comprehend, what they have really measured on that meter, if it was power, energy, or something else. I could also not resolve the unit on that meter.
I wonder, if they really have no clue, or if they intentionally cheat with dirty tricks in this video.
In this crude video, they measure the energy (i.e. the paid work) in kW, confusing it with power, that's also clearly misspelled in all these overview tables.
Real power dissipation and switch on/off profile of the convection heater, and the SOLUS panel is also not measured and transparent to the viewer.
Therefore, you can't even comprehend, what they have really measured on that meter, if it was power, energy, or something else. I could also not resolve the unit on that meter.
Right, energy is measured in joule. Watt is not energy, but power. 1 W is 1 J / s. But I guess they mean kWh, which would be energy, and those meters can do this. Otherwise the high number wouldn't make sense. Yes, they labeled it wrong in their video, saying it saved 20.5 kW. They should go back to school again and learn the basics :)
At the end of the day, when you heat your room you will use the same energy since you have the same physical problem... and same input of electricity with conversion to heat through resistive element. The difference is whether you feel an immediate wave of heat coming off the thing and rapid cycling or gradual ingress with large thermal mass giving you a more steady curve.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
0 backers so far. Looks like people are not *that* dumb and to at least a google search before they back something.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
Just two backers so far, but both have shelled out over US$1k :palm:Well... I wonder if those backers are real, or if it's "Maxim's marketing friends"
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
Just two backers so far, but both have shelled out over US$1k :palm:
If you look at the one backer's history, you can see that he's got a habit of dumping money on obvious scams, so he's likely a shill.https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
Just two backers so far, but both have shelled out over US$1k :palm:
It is a "service" that he provides, for a fee.If you look at the one backer's history, you can see that he's got a habit of dumping money on obvious scams, so he's likely a shillhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
Just two backers so far, but both have shelled out over US$1k :palm:
*whispers conspiratorially*It is a "service" that he provides, for a fee.If you look at the one backer's history, you can see that he's got a habit of dumping money on obvious scams, so he's likely a shillhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-the-most-efficient-radiator-in-the-world--2#/)
...just to have both Solus threads on the same page...
Just two backers so far, but both have shelled out over US$1k :palm:
"Under review"!Got another one! Good job!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-most-powerful-on-the-world#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-most-powerful-on-the-world#/)
Dave certainly pissed in their corn flakes none the less.
The amazing thing about this is that even if you drill a hole through this paint, the electricity will flow around the hole and the heating continues uninterrupted.
A little bit of excitement with the graphene sludge heaters.
"The unit exploded last night and sent prices of glass on my floor."
"Yesterday the heater shattered into many tiny pieces – it was ON and thank god nobody was anywhere near the thing. I know the heater was ON since the app said it was on all day. The thing just shattered and left a pile of glass on the ground – the metal frame was still secure on the wall and there were 2 metal strips with lots of glass stuck on them – I assume these are the heating strips."
"one of my heater just exploded whilst we’re watching tv it was scary and very loud!
And we can hear it cracking even after unplugging it from the main."
www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-plus-the-radiator-of-the-future#/comments (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solus-plus-the-radiator-of-the-future#/comments)