EEVblog #1204 - Samsung Galaxy Fold Failure - Analysis

[EEVblog]

The new Samsung Galaxy Fold a folding OLED smartphone has failed spectacularly in the hands of early reviewers!
What went wrong?
Also, a rant about the pressures on reviewers from the manufacturers, Dave questions why Marques Brownlee won't show his failure footage.

3M Flexible OLED testing presentation: https://www.oled-a.org/uploads/9/6/8/6/96867108/20171010_3m_-_beagi_cummins_-_doe_ssl_3m_meeting_presentation_10-9-17.pdf
2011 article: https://phys.org/news/2011-05-foldable-crease.html

[TheAmmoniacal]

Samsung pushed this phone early because of Huawei Mate X.

[Bud]

You are folding it wrong! (Steve Jobs would say)

[tocsa120ls]

I don't know what you're talking about, I always open my laptop by grabbing the lower and upper lid on all the corners (for undisclosed reasons I can't wear socks while doing this), then I open it up without putting no upward stress on the joint whatsoever... 

[Cnoob]

I wonder how well both the Samsung and Huawei will hold up in freezing weather conditions as the plastic will become more brittle?

[Barny]

I think this guy didnt show the procedure of peeling of the top layer because he did this on purpose and had to try very hard in doing this.
I think that the first phones died & first reports got out.
And soon after this manny of this youtuber damaged their phones on purpose to get more atention.
But there are some reports that the screen died even the top layer didnt got touched.

.

I thought that this type of phone will die soon.
But not that soon.
I thought it will take at least 6 month.
(Because in most countries at this point the consumer have to proove that the product got shipped faulty.)

As person which got enough problems with faulty flex-cables in moving / folding / sliding control panels I'd never buy a product were the flexing part isn'd exchangeable.
This means that a phone with an delicate screen like this is the best excample of planned obsolescence.

[open loop]

I bet someone in the industry has said "don't worry they will be working on a firmware fix for this"....

Or maybe not... 

 

[SilverSolder]

Why not have a regular screen on the outside of the device... so you only need to unfold it on the rare occasions when you need a bigger screen?

And a keyboard on the other "outside", so it could be used either as a large pad, a phone, or a small lappy.   That will be the $4,000 model...

[EEVblog]

I wonder how well both the Samsung and Huawei will hold up in freezing weather conditions as the plastic will become more brittle?

I wonder how long that hinge would last when tossed in my bag side pocket filled with crud

[SilverSolder]

Smartphones seem to have taken over the role that jewelry used to play...   Why not just make them in pure gold or platinum, with diamond studded "Home" keys...   put a $3,000 price tag on it...   simpler to make, and the owners will be even happier!

[MT]

undoubtedly yet another management fuckup!

[langwadt]

Smartphones seem to have taken over the role that jewelry used to play...   Why not just make them in pure gold or platinum, with diamond studded "Home" keys...   put a $3,000 price tag on it...   simpler to make, and the owners will be even happier!

you mean? https://www.valuewalk.com/2018/05/top-10-most-expensive-phones/

[EEVblog]

Seriously, 

[bitseeker]

Seriously, 

#notanengineer

[EEVblog]

Seriously, 

#notanengineer

Even my 4yo couldn't "record over" digital footage.

[Cnoob]

I wonder how long that hinge would last when tossed in my bag side pocket filled with crud

The reason why I own a cheap clam shell it gets treated like a bunch of keys and it still working,
My previous one was a Samsung and the hinge broke on that.

[bitseeker]

Seriously, 

#notanengineer

Even my 4yo couldn't "record over" digital footage.

"Record over" probably wasn't the best choice of words. He erased the footage out of embarrassment and reused the memory card. Net effect: recorded over.

Engineer: Woah, I just captured a major issue! Glad I was recording.

Not an engineer: Oops! I guess I shouldn't have have done that. I'll look like an idiot. *erase* Restart recording.

[Fungus]

He records his blog on VHS cassettes? 

Seriously, how do you record "over" something these days?

According to him there's two types of user: The obsessive-compulsive screen peelers and those who might have damaged their phones under "normal use".

D'ya think?


Guy's an idiot.

(or looking at the way he puts an Apple logo in front of himself in the video, a paid-for reviewer pretending to be a blogger)

[Fungus]

I want to know why the screen needs to flex in one of these?

Can't they do two ordinary screens side by side with a really narrow bezel on one edge and some sort of light pipe in the middle to hide the gap.

[Brumby]

"Narrow bezel" is not the same as "continuous screen".

[wilfred]

He records his blog on VHS cassettes? 

Seriously, how do you record "over" something these days?

It's just supposition people are making that he accidentally recorded over it. The way I read it is he thought it doesn't show anything interesting. Just his mistake peeling the top layer off. So he reused the card.

I am relying on my memory at this point but  he did it before he started hearing of others experiences then he had no reason to think it is anything other than his own mistake. It broke as soon as he tried peeling that layer off. It wasn't folding that broke his screen.

[Fungus]

"Narrow bezel" is not the same as "continuous screen".

If the screen is flexible they could maybe curve it downwards at the edge and project the pixels into the light pipe. Somebody at Samsung must be able to design a suitable lens for that. They already do those "edge to edge" phones with zero bezel.



It won't be easy. Maybe they need to bunch the pixels closer together at the edge of the display panel. All I'm saying is that it seems easier than making a display that bends (eight years research and counting...) and it would be a zillion times more reliable.

[MrMobodies]

If additional protective film can't be put over it because of the adhesive or chemicals how will stand a cleaning with a bit of alcohol or a damp cloth.

[EEVblog]

He records his blog on VHS cassettes? 
Seriously, how do you record "over" something these days?

It's just supposition people are making that he accidentally recorded over it. The way I read it is he thought it doesn't show anything interesting. Just his mistake peeling the top layer off. So he reused the card.

That's not how Youtubers operate.
They shoot footage and either manually or automatically upload all the content to a PC in a separate directory for each video. Most will have that backed up on NAS and/or cloud systems just in case.
Only an absolute fool would delete individual videos on the camera card in situ as the possibility of deleting the wrong one is high.
No Youtuber deletes individual clips like that as there is almost zero benefit in saving space compared to the project directory size.
And no Youtuber would bother to just delete a clip because they were embarrassed by it, especially one that obviously could have been a really big deal, even if you goofed it you'd keep it for posterity.
He uses a RED studio camera and his setup is about as advanced as you can get.
I'm not buying it.

[EEVblog]

"Record over" probably wasn't the best choice of words. He erased the footage out of embarrassment and reused the memory card. Net effect: recorded over.
Engineer: Woah, I just captured a major issue! Glad I was recording.
Not an engineer: Oops! I guess I shouldn't have have done that. I'll look like an idiot. *erase* Restart recording.

Nope, and if you were a content producer you'd understand why you wouldn't do that.

[VK3DRB]

If the breaking screen is a problem, the cause will be simple: POOR SYSTEMS ENGINEERING

[PA0PBZ]

IFixit got one: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600

[bitwelder]

Sooo... the guy first doesn't show his own footage of the issue for fear that Samsung may not like it, but then does show all the defects founds by other youtubers?

[Brumby]

He uses a RED studio camera and his setup is about as advanced as you can get.

That's a serious someone!

I'm not buying it.

I'm no YouTuber, but I can't see it being 'accidental' either.

[Lord of nothing]

Who here have the other Products in Mind who never come up again? 
Well some Products out there are to futuristic to many People and maybe frighten them.
RIP Nokia...

EDIT: Even its a Ad its nice:

[MBY]

Nice to see Samsung working on important features instead of unnecessary things like ergonomics, battery life that actually is a improvement over what mobiles once routinely had, keyboard, standardization so apps work the same on all phones, direct programmability (so it can outshine my 1985 Sharp pocket computer), modularity and service- and mod-friendliness and other things that is unimportant to a vanity device toy game console wiretap "mobile" telephone.

Foldable sun panels and screens are a good idea for something that need to be folded ...once. Why even spend a cent into this development is beyond me. Unfold a phone just to see another screen half where the keyboard should be? Idiotic. Just when you thought that "smartphones" could not possibly be any dumber...

[Cnoob]

Foldable sun panels and screens are a good idea for something that need to be folded ...once. Why even spend a cent into this development is beyond me. Unfold a phone just to see another screen half where the keyboard should be? Idiotic. Just when you thought that "smartphones" could not possibly be any dumber...

possibly the same reason manufactures thought paper clothing was a good idea in the 60's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_clothing

[Lord of nothing]

aka Primart Clothes. 

[Fungus]

Nice to see Samsung working on important features instead of unnecessary things like ergonomics, battery life that actually is a improvement over what mobiles once routinely had, keyboard, standardization so apps work the same on all phones, direct programmability (so it can outshine my 1985 Sharp pocket computer), modularity and service- and mod-friendliness and other things that is unimportant to a vanity device toy game console wiretap "mobile" telephone.

Foldable sun panels and screens are a good idea for something that need to be folded ...once. Why even spend a cent into this development is beyond me. Unfold a phone just to see another screen half where the keyboard should be? Idiotic. Just when you thought that "smartphones" could not possibly be any dumber...

Samsung is a business that wants to make money.

Big screens sell and if watch the video you'll see that guy unfolding his phone and snapping it shut again like it's a fidget spinner or something. If that's how people treat them then testing to 100,000 cycles doesn't seem much to me in something that's meant to last a few years.

This seems like a very sellable product if they can make it work, even at $2000.

(nb. I wouldn't buy one but I bet we all know somebody who would...)

[bitseeker]

"Record over" probably wasn't the best choice of words. He erased the footage out of embarrassment and reused the memory card. Net effect: recorded over.
Engineer: Woah, I just captured a major issue! Glad I was recording.
Not an engineer: Oops! I guess I shouldn't have have done that. I'll look like an idiot. *erase* Restart recording.

Nope, and if you were a content producer you'd understand why you wouldn't do that.

Having produced still image, video, and audio content (not on YouTube), it's pretty obvious to me why one would not do that. But I've also met people with expensive gear that have little to no common sense. So, to me, the jury is still out on whether it's a conspiracy or simple stupidity.

His inconsistency in how he explains what happened certainly makes one lean toward the conspiracy side, though.

[wilfred]

His inconsistency in how he explains what happened certainly makes one lean toward the conspiracy side, though.

I missed where he explained it. I thought people were just making stuff up. What did he say to explain what happened to the video?

[bitseeker]

He worded it differently in his video (Dave pointed it out), where he said that he didn't get to keep the footage of peeling off the protective layer and the screen going partially black, versus in his Tweet explaining what he meant by that.

[EEVblog]

Having produced still image, video, and audio content (not on YouTube), it's pretty obvious to me why one would not do that. But I've also met people with expensive gear that have little to no common sense. So, to me, the jury is still out on whether it's a conspiracy or simple stupidity.
His inconsistency in how he explains what happened certainly makes one lean toward the conspiracy side, though.

He's a huge Youtuber, and a technology gadget reviewer using top flight recording hardware, having produced over 1100 videos. This isn't stupidity.
This is his rig.



I recon the dog ate the footage.

[SparkyFX]

I'm not buying it.

I do, because he explained that the display failed when he removed what he thought is a protective cover, and later noticed that it should not have been peeled off. He thought he broke the thing by mishandling ... and kind of did, but he seems not the only one.

I think in his position he decided to not show how to break the device (images can be quite powerful in an opinion forming process) he was about to present or wanted to argue if it was smart to remove the layer. If Samsung would at the same time assure that they will rework these points, where would be the cause of showing it to the general public how to break it? And yeah, in a more recent video he showed how he held a flame thrower at a Nintendo Gameboy...

Maybe because he is not "don´t turn it on, take it apart"-aware :-)

[Homer J Simpson]

[bitseeker]

I recon the dog ate the footage.

Yep, gotta watch out for those covert canines!

[thmjpr]

They pressured ifixit to remove content, so yeah, MKBHD would be in the same boat:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/04/samsung-puts-the-screws-to-ifixit-makes-it-remove-the-galaxy-fold-teardown/
https://ifixit.org/blog/16189/about-our-galaxy-fold-teardown/

We were provided our Galaxy Fold unit by a trusted partner. Samsung has requested, through that partner, that iFixit remove its teardown. We are under no obligation to remove our analysis, legal or otherwise. But out of respect for this partner, whom we consider an ally in making devices more repairable, we are choosing to withdraw our story until we can purchase a Galaxy Fold at retail.

They don't blur SN's in the teardowns from what I see.

[PA0PBZ]

Whoever missed it: https://web.archive.org/web/20190425075411/https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600

[MT]

Huawei also have foldable in Mate X, they claim 3 years of dev on the hinge, they use a side latch to hold the screen
in position.

[Fungus]

Huawei also have foldable in Mate X, they claim 3 years of dev on the hinge, they use a side latch to hold the screen
in position.

Looks impressive but I only give it a few weeks of "typical" use before that screen gets all scratched up along the fold.

The tiny little catch that holds it closed doesn't look/sound like it's going to last very long either.

Bottom line: It's a nice tech demo, makes the company look good. Not something you'd want to spend your own money on (unless you're an oil baron or something).

[bitseeker]

Time for the ultimate challenge: Case manufacturers, start your engines!

[cjs]

Nice to see Samsung working on important features instead of unnecessary things like...direct programmability (so it can outshine my 1985 Sharp pocket computer)....

You must have had quite the 1985 Sharp pocket computer, that it could run something significantly better than (or anywhere as good as) QPython. Was the editor as good as vim? With even grep, diff, ctags, etc?

[SparkyFX]

Bottom line: It's a nice tech demo, makes the company look good. Not something you'd want to spend your own money on (unless you're an oil baron or something).

That´s the thing with the buyers: they want to look like one.

And Samsung wanted to build one. So welcome to another episode of Expectations vs. Reality.

[wilfred]

Thanks HJS for posting that gear video. I really like some of the vids you post.

That guy comes across as a good bloke. Whatever the reason he didn't show the video I don't give a s%*t.  But it probably wasn't a stupid mistake.

[Fungus]

Bottom line: It's a nice tech demo, makes the company look good.

... welcome to another episode of Expectations vs. Reality.

This.

(nb. I'm not saying the tech won't get better, it's not here yet though)

[typematrix]

Kind of bad for a company like Samsung. And after exploding note story. Maybe they should do some more testing. Folding phones are vaporware targeted only for enthusiasts, there is no reason for fordable phones to exist.

[Fungus]

there is no reason for fordable phones to exist.

There's no reason for large screens that fold up and go in pockets to ever exist?   

[SilverSolder]

The key to making these phones work is going to be the case...   I like the Huawei design with the screen on the outside the best, as it could potentially stay in the case more or less permanently, and only come out to play on the relatively rare occasions when a big screen is needed...