Author Topic: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie  (Read 10627 times)

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Offline Time

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EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« on: October 27, 2010, 04:26:04 pm »
gEDA is almost too good to be true with its schematic capture, layout package, AND simulation.  Not to mention it seems to have a strong team of developers and good support documentation.  What am I waiting for?  Lets start using it.





Oh... wait, its only available to Linux and unix based platforms?  DAMN.

It was too good to be true.

-Time
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 04:50:35 pm »
I can't hear such whining any more.

If there is some Windows-only software people get a Windows PC to use it.
If there is some Mac OSX-only software people get a Mac to use it.
If there is some iPhone-only app people get an iPhone.
If there is some Linux-only software people whine like babies as if they are entitled for spoon feeding.
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Offline Time

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 05:25:19 pm »
It would be even worse if gEDA was only available on OSX or an iPhone app.  Much worse.  I am not even sure why you brought that up.
I have dual booted and used VMWare to run SILVACO for quite awhile now and so far there are 2 reasons I should use Linux as an engineer:  SILVACO and gEDA (not really even gEDA since at work we use Cadence).  I have 100 work related reasons to use Windows and 2 for Linux.

From a hobbyist stand point I can afford more time to put into learning a new system but I only have 1 real reason to do so since I will never use SILVACO at home.  I understand gEDA could have never been developed on a platform like Windows but the amount of users who are going to consider it will forever be limited until its cross platform.

Its totally inconvenient to jump around between platforms.  I would never consider doing anything in OSX and I do as little as I possibly can in Linux.  I will just stick to the industry standard of Windows.
-Time
 

Offline DJPhil

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 07:32:41 pm »
It's oddly appropriate to read about this now, as I've just spent two weeks switching from Windows to Ubuntu. You definitely get a feel that the industry favors Windows as a platform, especially if you want to spend all your time in a GUI, but they're both very workable. With Wine and virtualization (Virtualbox, VMWare, and others are available free) I've managed to get everything I've attempted at least up and running. As of now I'm only using Wine for are the heap of small one off tools I've collected for various calculations (MiscEl, guitar tone stacks and the like), and I'm using a Virtualbox XP guest for the IAR Studio that came with the Launchpad just to tide me over. I got the mspGCC toolchain based on GCC4 up and running, and I'll probably switch to that after I get more comfortable with it. Qucs is awesome, though I haven't had much time to really play with it yet, and Kicad even looks better in it's native environment. I'm sure enterprise level tools would be a different story, but I'm blessed with poverty and hobby level interest. :)

I'd never heard of SILVACO before, and looking at their site it's definitely enterprise level stuff. It struck me as odd that something like that would require virtualization for use under windows so I went poking around to see what the story was. Their windows compatibility looks troubled, and it's easy to see why it'd be better to use a different platform.
I wonder why the change, maybe virtualization is easy enough anymore that they don't want to try to maintain multiple platforms? It'd be interesting if that were a trend for enterprise level software. I can see it being a popular idea as it cuts their costs and leaves them free to work on their product. I've got no idea really, just guessing.

I thing gEDA more or less exists as a tool that interested parties can pick up, use if it suits them, and hopefully sharpen for others. The *nix dependence is a huge turnoff for many, agreed, and for a simple hobby tool like Kicad (which I imagine is largely used in it's windows form) it would have made it relatively obscure. As it is, gEDA strikes me as an advanced hobby tool that gains a lot of it's strength from having a plain text file format that's post-process friendly. This is candy to someone with a programming background but relatively irrelevant to those used to dealing with a program at face value. There are other benefits and drawbacks to be sure, and it's evolving. It's on my list of things to tinker with after I'm more settled in to my new home.

To each their own, naturally. I do hope gEDA evolves into a cross platform EDA, hell, I hope it merges with Kicad and they take the best of both to build on.

Sorry for all the rambling (was really bad this time). Just my two cents. :)
 

Offline the_raptor

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 12:35:25 am »
I understand gEDA could have never been developed on a platform like Windows but the amount of users who are going to consider it will forever be limited until its cross platform.

I bet it is cross platform*. That no one wants to do the porting and maintenance doesn't make it not cross platform. Personally I don't want anyone who can't set-up a dual boot system** designing circuits anyway.

* Windows is at least partially POSIX compliant and the GNU userland stuff has Windows versions. The major issue would be the UI.
** Which has from late in the 90's consisted of creating a partition and inserting a CD.

P.S. I am no Linux zealot, I only have it installed on a netbook these days. But whining that an open source program is not available on your platform of choice is like whining that your free icecream doesn't have sprinkles and your legs are too tired to go get some.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 01:10:58 am »
Personally I don't want anyone who can't set-up a dual boot system** designing circuits anyway.

be careful with your words, you are entering EE design portal, not OS "geeks", even for Admin, this word might become a threat i think. if you think you are dual booter that like to go in from both the front and the back, then i think you are not a serious circuit designer, or at least not good enuf at it. why a designer should go into a hassle of dual booting?

i do encourage Linux though (free), but the fact thats its free, maybe makes most "brilliant" software developer like Adobe, Autodesk, Altium etc try to stay away. hence most highly proffesional engineers will stay away too.

Why? they eat food you know, and food... is not free.
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Offline Time

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 01:23:14 am »
I understand gEDA could have never been developed on a platform like Windows but the amount of users who are going to consider it will forever be limited until its cross platform.

I bet it is cross platform*. That no one wants to do the porting and maintenance doesn't make it not cross platform. Personally I don't want anyone who can't set-up a dual boot system** designing circuits anyway.

* Windows is at least partially POSIX compliant and the GNU userland stuff has Windows versions. The major issue would be the UI.
** Which has from late in the 90's consisted of creating a partition and inserting a CD.

P.S. I am no Linux zealot, I only have it installed on a netbook these days. But whining that an open source program is not available on your platform of choice is like whining that your free icecream doesn't have sprinkles and your legs are too tired to go get some.

It is the case that it just needs to be ported.

 I am not going to use a certain platform just so I can use one single application.  No one in their right mind is going to do that unless they have nothing else to do.  There are other options aside from dual booting and using gEDA.  Why would I go make special ice cream with special ingredients just so I can have these slightly fancy sprinkles when I can just goto my fridge with my normal ice cream and plain sprinkles?  Because they are just sprinkles and I can settle with the plain ones and get on with my life.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 01:40:05 am by Time »
-Time
 

Offline joelby

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 01:59:53 am »
i do encourage Linux though (free), but the fact thats its free, maybe makes most "brilliant" software developer like Adobe, Autodesk, A!tium etc try to stay away. hence most highly proffesional engineers will stay away too.

This is completely untrue - the reason they don't port their software is because they perceive that the market share of the platform is too small to warrant the cost and effort of porting and the additional support and maintenance required. Until tools are available on non-Windows systems, you're stuck using Windows whether you like it or not. I doubt that an overwhelming proportion of these professional engineers you mention actually love using Windows.

Xilinx and Mathworks produce native Linux versions of their tools, which are used by professional engineers. Adobe used to have versions of Photoshop for IRIX and Solaris when these platforms were the high-end choice.

Quote
Why? they eat food you know, and food... is not free.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Just because Linux is free doesn't mean that all software released for it needs to be free.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 03:00:19 am »
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Just because Linux is free doesn't mean that all software released for it needs to be free.

u understood me correctly, its just maybe my opinion is not that correct. but we'll see, i would like to use such free OS, fast and efficient is the word people described it. but the thing that prohibits me from stepping in is when thinking i might not be able to do my normal task as in Windows. and what about USB and pheripheral driver support? its not the OS i care about, its the thing that i want to do. ;)

i'm looking at downloadable Linux OS, but so far no luck. Any suggestion? i'm thinking Gentoo, since i heard some mentioning about it. My criteria will be:
1) fancy color and graphical UI is not prequisite (but will be a plus). just a simple wallpaper and desktop icon will do. Windowed UI is required though (GUI)
2) the fastest boot up time and the most stable, the least App execution overhead etc, suitable for thing such as robotic App and even embedded system.
3) support for App development, programming language (C/C++ OOP, ASM etc)
sorry maybe off topic, but would like to hear suggestion.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline joelby

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 03:07:35 am »
i'm looking at downloadable Linux OS, but so far no luck. Any suggestion? i'm thinking Gentoo, since i heard some mentioning about it.

I'd probably avoid Gentoo if you're not already familiar with Linux. Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com/ seems to be the most popular choice for desktops these days. You can burn it to CD and try it out without installing to your hard drive.

In terms of your three requirements, all general purpose distributions will more or less be identical in this regard. You probably don't want to run an entire desktop Ubuntu installation on an embedded system, but there's no need to worry about that when choosing a desktop system. Beagleboard has its own Linux distribution(s), for instance.
 

Offline logictom

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2010, 09:39:11 am »
Personally I don't want anyone who can't set-up a dual boot system** designing circuits anyway.
Chalk and cheese.

Has anyone tried running it with andLinux yet? I gave it a quick go with portable ubuntu but it didn't run great and was running that processor at 100% while just sitting there. Will report back if I have any success.
 

Offline sonicj

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2010, 10:44:54 am »
i'm looking at downloadable Linux OS, but so far no luck. Any suggestion? i'm thinking Gentoo, since i heard some mentioning about it. My criteria will be:
1) fancy color and graphical UI is not prequisite (but will be a plus). just a simple wallpaper and desktop icon will do. Windowed UI is required though (GUI)
2) the fastest boot up time and the most stable, the least App execution overhead etc, suitable for thing such as robotic App and even embedded system.
3) support for App development, programming language (C/C++ OOP, ASM etc)
sorry maybe off topic, but would like to hear suggestion.

Mint is pretty and should be near painless for anyone capable of burning the iso. last install i did, EVERYTHING worked OOB! unattended install + 100% updated in less than an hour. its not the fastest linux available, but its no slouch either. eye candy can be slimmed down if running older hardware. i would probably go with rc10. it'll have all the bleeding edge features and should be easiest for those transitioning.
-sj
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2010, 01:09:14 pm »
I'd probably avoid Gentoo if you're not already familiar with Linux. Ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com/ seems to be the most popular choice for desktops these days. You can burn it to CD and try it out without installing to your hard drive.
downloaded, burnt, run the ubuntu. 6 hours worth of wait. and at last i'm succeded in playing a tetris/solitaire game! :D nice "boink" wrapped windows effect! (if the maximum graphical effect is set) not like my WinXP customized as Win98 appearance :P but i cannot get my wireless broadband stick to get installed, so i cannot download/upgrade anything, or surfing. i have to get back to my windows XP to meet you guys! and as the boot time is concerned, my winxp is better than ubuntu run from cd. thanx to joe for providing the link. now i have another OS in hand, for free ;D

so for anyone complaining about nonresponsiveness of winxp, esp the slow start menu, here i provide the reg file to modify the MenuShowDelay, which i learnt when i was a kid, just for anyone who not yet know it. maybe it applies to winvista/7 as well, but not really sure. you can see it in plain text to make sure. just doubleclick to change setting and restart windows. ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 01:12:14 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline TheDirty

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2010, 01:12:32 pm »
I run Fedora, but Ubuntu seems to be the beginner distro of choice.  I installed the Ubuntu desktop version, but I found Ubuntu to be a more 'safe' desktop setup where it really tried to make the Linux experience more user friendly and make sure that users don't shoot themselves in the foot.  Unfortunately this made it difficult for me as a have a fairly quirky setup.
Mark Higgins
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 01:19:18 pm »
Its totally inconvenient to jump around between platforms
ubuntu start menu at top left? X- button too! argh gimme a break! why different OS got their own different ego? i'm following Windows ego! ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 06:25:48 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline TheDirty

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 01:35:06 pm »
Change the panel properties to move it to the bottom.  Neither Windows or Gnome-Linux has the menu/taskbar static.  You can move it where you want.
Mark Higgins
 

Offline joelby

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 02:02:38 pm »
downloaded, burnt, run the ubuntu. 6 hours worth of wait. and at last i'm succeded in playing a tetris/solitaire game! :D nice "boink" wrapped windows effect! (if the maximum graphical effect is set) not like my WinXP customized as Win98 appearance :P but i cannot get my wireless broadband stick to get installed, so i cannot download/upgrade anything, or surfing. i have to get back to my windows XP to meet you guys! and as the boot time is concerned, my winxp is better than ubuntu run from cd. thanx to joe for providing the link. now i have another OS in hand, for free ;D

Yeah, running from a CD isn't going to give you a good impression of speed! If it's piqued your curiosity, try installing it to a hard drive or perhaps a fast USB flash drive (not a $10 one).

If you have a USB 3G network interface, there's some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager/Hardware/3G . Apparently DiGi Malaysia's Huawei E219 works out of the box - hopefully your model is supported too. There's a guide to actually setting them up at https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/internet/C/connecting-mobile.html .

 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 04:02:28 pm »
If you have a USB 3G network interface, there's some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager/Hardware/3G . Apparently DiGi Malaysia's Huawei E219 works out of the box - hopefully your model is supported too. There's a guide to actually setting them up at https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/internet/C/connecting-mobile.html .
i did some setting up the APN, name and such (quite similar to https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/internet/C/connecting-mobile.html  has instructed), but when i opened the firefox, its said, cannot connect to net or something like that. maybe somemore to be done, might get back to it later.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline logictom

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 04:28:44 pm »
Has anyone tried running it with andLinux yet? I gave it a quick go with portable ubuntu but it didn't run great and was running that processor at 100% while just sitting there. Will report back if I have any success.
Got it up a running in andLinux, runs pretty good, much easier than dual booting and a lot better than portable ubuntu:)
Just working my way through this tutorial
 

Offline Time

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 04:41:26 pm »
I've never heard of andLinux before.  Thats kind of cool.  I kept seeing it on this thread and just thought it was a typo, haha
-Time
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 06:24:39 pm »
hello everybody! this is a post from portable Ubuntu 10.10 8)..
haaaa! andLinux? (scrolllll) Fedora? mint? where to download?!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 06:29:52 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline sonicj

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 08:09:06 pm »
hello everybody! this is a post from portable Ubuntu 10.10 8)..
haaaa! andLinux? (scrolllll) Fedora? mint? where to download?!

huh?

Linux Mint 10 "Julia" - RC (32-bit) download
Linux Mint 10 "Julia" - RC (64-bit) download
 

Offline TheDirty

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Mark Higgins
 

Offline krapht

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2010, 05:32:01 am »
I personally like using Fedora Electronics Lab. Everything comes preconfigured.

http://spins.fedoraproject.org/fel/
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2010, 01:14:28 pm »
If you need (or want :-)) news and regular information about electronic tools on Linux, there is http://elettrolinux.com/

I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline Wim_L

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 09:12:31 pm »
Its totally inconvenient to jump around between platforms
ubuntu start menu at top left? X- button too! argh gimme a break! why different OS got their own different ego? i'm following Windows ego! ;)


That was a particularly strange move... Especially considering it only became that way recently (older versions used to have those buttons on the right too) so even for people who had been using it it's an inconvenience. Of course, you can change it all in the Gnome config tool, but that's easier said than done if you don't know exactly where to look. They're not being consistent either, some themes have the buttons on the left, others still have them on the right (which does mean the easy way to get it fixed is to just pick a theme that has them on the right).
 

Offline boeserbaer

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2011, 09:35:48 pm »
If you pay attention the altera and xilinx sw is heavily dependent on cygwin (linux emulation for windows).  I personally wish that the atera and xilinx tools along with altium designer were available on OSX, I am tired of having to dual boot to do pcb layout (everything else works under vmware). 
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2011, 01:28:28 am »
If you pay attention the altera and xilinx sw is heavily dependent on cygwin (linux emulation for windows).  I personally wish that the atera and xilinx tools along with A!tium designer were available on OSX, I am tired of having to dual boot to do pcb layout (everything else works under vmware). 

No chance of Altium Designer being on other platforms unless porting Delphi becomes trivial.

Dave.
 

Offline apex

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2011, 01:55:04 pm »
Another question:
Can you run gEDA or KiCad on an Android Plattform like the apad?
I mean, android uses the linux 2.6 kernel, the biggest problem would be the GUI...
apex
 

Offline Wim_L

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2011, 11:51:22 pm »
Even if you could, why would you want to? Such CAD tools are usually best used on big screens with accurate pointing devices, like a good mouse. I think using it on a small touchscreen would get grustrating.
 

Offline joelby

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2011, 04:47:51 am »
No chance of A!tium Designer being on other platforms unless porting Delphi becomes trivial.

Excellent! :) Borland used to have a Linux version of Delphi called Kylix. Embarcadero Technologies, the current owners, have Linux and Mac OS X versions on their roadmap.
 

Offline apex

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2011, 05:04:58 pm »
Well, I thought of running it on my apad 10.2!
apex
 

Offline jahonen

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Re: EEVBlog #121 - gEDA Interview with DJ Delorie
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2011, 06:15:20 pm »
No chance of A!tium Designer being on other platforms unless porting Delphi becomes trivial.

Excellent! :) Borland used to have a Linux version of Delphi called Kylix. Embarcadero Technologies, the current owners, have Linux and Mac OS X versions on their roadmap.

Actually, there is an open-source more-or-less Delphi compatible multiplatform compiler, Lazarus.

Regards,
Janne
 


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