EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on August 15, 2019, 03:37:22 am
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You think a $2 multimeter is bad?
A review of the Kickstarter & Indiegogo Vion bluetooth multimeter that promised the world.
Grab your popcorn for a master class in idiotic product design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y)
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Clearly this crap was designed to scam people into thinking that this device would have the same accuracy and resolution of a name brand Multi-meter.
They should have done a marketing wank video on testing the voltage on the cells on one of those solar roadways 8)
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I was curious about how bad this was, thanks for looking. Would've loved to have seen if it held up to higher voltage, and higher frequency, AC. I bet you can get it to let the smoke out then.
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I see, the data logging feature is meant to log data about you. >:D
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This is a 50+ device? LOL! TBH it's better it doesn;t try to measure current. IMHO no DMM without dedicated current input should.
Alexander.
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The main purpose of this DMM is Go Show young students how to run a kickstarter the wrong way.
And how mit to design a product.
My theorie is that this DMM is a theoretical project of a groop of design students which got build in reality.
EDIT:
I know why this DMM isnt working.
Dave as a profesional isnt wearing a mustache.
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Really enjoyed the video. Too bad that transient generator you salvaged couldn't have found a spot in the video.
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Nice video!
Not sure if you spotted this, but at timestamp 30:18 it seems to me that an EMductor, err...I mean inductor, is not soldered on its pads... (I guess part of the antenna matching network)
cheers :)
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It's a blatant rip off, trying to be a simplified Mooshimeter (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/Mooshimeter) - (I think it is the original) Bluetooth+Smartphone app 2-ch 24-bit A/D multimeter. That Kickstarter, which went through FCC and 61010 approvals, was many years ago...
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I remember some of our undergraduate engineering team projects, and there would always be a guy on the team who would think of things like this.
Engineering is about finding elegant solutions to problems – with simplest often being better (not always). People who just "don't get it", seem to think it's about features. At minimum, this thing would need semi-accurate DC volts and resistance with an OLED screen and wireless charging to even make it slightly useful. Having to pair it to an app just makes it too much of a pain in the arse.
Undoing a screw to charge a device? What.
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I fail to see any advantages over the common "multimeter built into one probe with display" type multimeters.
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I fail to see any advantages over the common "multimeter built into one probe with display" type multimeters.
Data logging and voice. :popcorn:
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I fail to see any advantages over the common "multimeter built into one probe with display" type multimeters.
It has Bluetooth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lf8_pxg2Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lf8_pxg2Q)
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Next up on Kickstarter, by the team behind Vion: a digital tape measure with a single LED that turns either red or green, depending on whether the thing you're measuring is of the correct length or not. Affiliate links to trusted "enlarge your penis in 5 minutes with this simple trick" partners might or might not find place in the accompanying mobile app.
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It's a blatant rip off, trying to be a simplified Mooshimeter (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/Mooshimeter) - (I think it is the original) Bluetooth+Smartphone app 2-ch 24-bit A/D multimeter. That Kickstarter, which went through FCC and 61010 approvals, was many years ago...
Its the same idea, but hardly a blatant ripoff. Almost nothing in the physical design or look and feel of the app is the same.
Anyway, it looks like mm have stopped production, its marked as sold out on their page and "obsolete" on digikey. I have one and its very useful for remote logging, but not day to day use.
Having a rechargeable version would be good but: it would cost a lot more, and would have been hell to pass certifications (as they stated any cover or port protection has to be open during high voltage testing, this is why the SD slot had to be covered up).
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Wow they just re-invented a Duspol !
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Wow they just re-invented a Duspol !
...but with no screen, an awkward cable, bad battery, and unreliable measurements.
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It's a blatant rip off, trying to be a simplified Mooshimeter (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/Mooshimeter) - (I think it is the original) Bluetooth+Smartphone app 2-ch 24-bit A/D multimeter. That Kickstarter, which went through FCC and 61010 approvals, was many years ago...
Its the same idea, but hardly a blatant ripoff. Almost nothing in the physical design or look and feel of the app is the same.
Anyway, it looks like mm have stopped production, its marked as sold out on their page and "obsolete" on digikey. I have one and its very useful for remote logging, but not day to day use.
Having a rechargeable version would be good but: it would cost a lot more, and would have been hell to pass certifications (as they stated any cover or port protection has to be open during high voltage testing, this is why the SD slot had to be covered up).
Too bad they seem to have abandoned it, two channels for V, I is very handy.
pic related, wireless multimeters are useful for measurements in unsafe or inconvenient areas. I prefer something hands-on though.
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This looks like fraud... the objective could have been to get the Kickstarter/Indiegogo money and run!
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This looks like fraud... the objective could have been to get the Kickstarter/Indiegogo money and run!
Nah, they manufactured something and wrote half an app.
Never attribute to malice things which can be adequately explained by incompetance.
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This looks like fraud... the objective could have been to get the Kickstarter/Indiegogo money and run!
I seriously doubt that they were out to scam or defraud anyone otherwise they would not have included their names and faces in the marketing material. In many aspects the final product does not even closely resemble the device that they originally promoted and I would speculate that perhaps they had internal conflicts, this would explain all the delays and uncertainty.
vionlab.co.kr (http://vionlab.co.kr)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvaV0uMVfs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvaV0uMVfs)
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Never attribute to malice things which can be adequately explained by incompetance.
I like this quote! :)
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I feel the people calling fraud may be the same kind of people who produce these kinds of products as they both grossly underestimate what goes into the development of a successful product. Failure is not the same as fraud.
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Wow they just re-invented a Duspol !
The real deal for mains related work. And it has a proper CAT rating (CAT IV 1000V).
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I feel the people calling fraud may be the same kind of people who produce these kinds of products as they both grossly underestimate what goes into the development of a successful product. Failure is not the same as fraud.
Let's call it croudfunded education. ;) The backers help some team to gain first experience in designing and producing a product. When the team just managed to build an arduino blinky, it will be also educational for the backers. ;D
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I was thinking about the LED thing, and yes, I know that they got it badly wrong. How about this for an idea:
RED Voltage 1v-2v Single 1.5v cells
ORANGE Voltage 8v-12v 9v cells and car electrics
YELLOW Voltage 20v-30v Truck electrics
GREEN Voltage 45v-55v Telecoms
BLUE Voltage over 100v
Blinking LED = AC
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I was thinking about the LED thing, and yes, I know that they got it badly wrong. How about this for an idea:
RED Voltage 1v-2v Single 1.5v cells
ORANGE Voltage 8v-12v 9v cells and car electrics
YELLOW Voltage 20v-30v Truck electrics
GREEN Voltage 45v-55v Telecoms
BLUE Voltage over 100v
Oh, yeah. Now it's a device I want to own.
(not)
I dunno. When I want to measure something I don't want to have to dismantle it and sit for half an hour while it charges the battery, then spend 10 minutes downloading an app, creating an online account and trying to pair it to my phone. Not when AA batteries exist and custom LCD screens are cheaper then bluetooth modules.
(What if the whole family use it? Do they all have to have separate accounts?)
I imagine V2 of this will have WiFi and post the readings directly to your Facebook timeline. :popcorn:
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I was thinking about the LED thing, and yes, I know that they got it badly wrong. How about this for an idea:
RED Voltage 1v-2v Single 1.5v cells
ORANGE Voltage 8v-12v 9v cells and car electrics
YELLOW Voltage 20v-30v Truck electrics
GREEN Voltage 45v-55v Telecoms
BLUE Voltage over 100v
Blinking LED = AC
How about that: an LCD displaying an actual number which directly corresponds to the value being measured! Radical, I know ;D It's cheap, too. Also, unloaded (open circuit) voltage is pretty much meaningless when assessing state of charge of most consumer primary batteries.
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Anyway, it looks like mm have stopped production, its marked as sold out on their page and "obsolete" on digikey. I have one and its very useful for remote logging, but not day to day use.
Having a rechargeable version would be good but: it would cost a lot more, and would have been hell to pass certifications (as they stated any cover or port protection has to be open during high voltage testing, this is why the SD slot had to be covered up).
Where I think they really failed is their insistence on using an oddball BLE adapter to connect to it using Python instead of the standard Bluetooth chip that is in almost every modern connected device nowadays. I would use my Mooshimeter a lot more if I could bring a measurement window on my PC screen, complete with the ability to log measurements as needed. (Workaround: Nexus 7 with failed touch screen remote controlled from PC using scrcpy.)
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How about that: an LCD displaying an actual number which directly corresponds to the value being measured! Radical, I know ;D It's cheap, too. Also, unloaded (open circuit) voltage is pretty much meaningless when assessing state of charge of most consumer primary batteries.
There are lots of good and inexpensive pen style multimeters although I did a search and none that I found included Bluetooth.
The unloaded voltage for most primary cells actually is a pretty good measurement of cell state if you are testing to see if something failed due to low charge. 1.2 volts on an alkaline cell unambiguously means depleted.
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[attachimg=2]
How about that: an LCD displaying an actual number which directly corresponds to the value being measured! Radical, I know ;D It's cheap, too. Also, unloaded (open circuit) voltage is pretty much meaningless when assessing state of charge of most consumer primary batteries.
The unloaded voltage for most primary cells actually is a pretty good measurement of cell state if you are testing to see if something failed due to low charge. 1.2 volts on an alkaline cell unambiguously means depleted.
These cost $2 and don't need no steenkin' bluetooth (or prior-knowledge about "primary cell voltage").
Just sayin' :popcorn:
[attachimg=1]
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(Attachment Link) The unloaded voltage for most primary cells actually is a pretty good measurement of cell state if you are testing to see if something failed due to low charge. 1.2 volts on an alkaline cell unambiguously means depleted.
These cost $2 and don't need no steenkin' bluetooth (or prior-knowledge about "primary cell voltage").
Yes, but using an expensive and inscrutable to the uninitiated multimeter to test 10 cent batteries makes me a wizard.
Incidentally, using the thermocouple temperature probe on the same multimeter for cooking means my friends never ask me to cook anymore.
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Where I think they really failed is their insistence on using an oddball BLE adapter to connect to it using Python instead of the standard Bluetooth chip that is in almost every modern connected device nowadays. I would use my Mooshimeter a lot more if I could bring a measurement window on my PC screen, complete with the ability to log measurements as needed. (Workaround: Nexus 7 with failed touch screen remote controlled from PC using scrcpy.)
Damn I didn't even think about that, being able to access it via PC would have been a huge bonus. I see some options for linux but they are not exactly plug and play (https://github.com/ghtyrant/libsooshi).
I was thinking about the LED thing, and yes, I know that they got it badly wrong. How about this for an idea:
RED Voltage 1v-2v Single 1.5v cells
ORANGE Voltage 8v-12v 9v cells and car electrics
YELLOW Voltage 20v-30v Truck electrics
GREEN Voltage 45v-55v Telecoms
BLUE Voltage over 100v
Blinking LED = AC
That won't work because then you can't tell if a battery is "good" or not, unless you had multiple LEDs which just makes it confusing. Emphasis on the quotes.
Has to be something like:
0.8-1.1V = red, 1.1-1.7V = green
7-8.5V = red, 8.5-9.5V = green, etc
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I don't see a separate ADC, so it's probably using the 12-bit one in the nRF52832 itself. No obvious voltage reference either, might just be using the CPU VDD itself. Even I know that's a big no-no, and I don't do analog stuff much either.
Even a '7106 out of a $2 830-style meter would be far more accurate.
This is what happens when non-engineers design products... |O
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Yep, it is pretty bad. I suspect Vion has no sensible design process, like design reviews, design verification testing, risk analysis etc. Typically, a good electronic engineer would spend at least half of his design effort focused on mitigating product failures and regulatory compliance requirements like safety, EMC etc. A good paradigm for an electronic design engineer is to assume everyone is out to sue him or his company and if anyone dies due to his design, he will be in jail sharing a cell with Big Bubba.
Some major companies have also made ridiculous products. One example is the infamous IBM backup/restore utility for IBM DOS to backup user files and programs onto diskette and restore them later. They made it so that you can only restore you files on the SAME DOS version. So if you were upgrading from DOS 4.0 to Dos 4.1, the tool simply did not restore (after you had formatted the HDD), but shows an error message on the screen stating wrong DOS version. EPIC FAIL! XCOPY was an alternative, but you have to make sure you has gotten everything manually including CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT, and the average dingbat PC user would not have heard of XCOPY.
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I don't see a separate ADC, so it's probably using the 12-bit one in the nRF52832 itself. No obvious voltage reference either, might just be using the CPU VDD itself. Even I know that's a big no-no, and I don't do analog stuff much either.
You don't always need a voltage reference for doing precision stuff with an ADC in a microcontroller. The reference can also be a precision resistor.
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You don't always need a voltage reference for doing precision stuff with an ADC in a microcontroller. The reference can also be a precision resistor.
Could you give an example please? I assume not multi-slope or similar.
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You think a $2 multimeter is bad?
A review of the Kickstarter & Indiegogo Vion bluetooth multimeter that promised the world.
Grab your popcorn for a master class in idiotic product design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k04p4UgS6Y)
Sorry Dave, after this review I can't trust anymore on your expertise of products!
Until you start wearing a mustache! :-DD
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IC Identification of this Device:
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The very culture of the whole patreon, kickstarter communities combined with desktop OS loonix, hacker communities results in abominations like this.
The self-professed geniuses fighting against capitalism being nothing but untalented smooth brains scamming people out of their money.
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The very culture of the whole patreon, kickstarter communities combined with desktop OS loonix, hacker communities results in abominations like this.
The self-professed geniuses fighting against capitalism being nothing but untalented smooth brains scamming people out of their money.
I know of a couple of real test equipment Kickstarter projects which were not approved because they were too technically focused.
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So real that they were on kickstarter.........
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Golly… idiocy makes the world go round.
I reckon this video should’ve been: “Don’t turn it on OR take it apart… BLOW IT UP!”