EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on October 08, 2019, 10:37:48 am
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The LifeSaber Kickstarter outdoor survival tool is a classic example of a Jack of all trades, master of none product design.
A master class in how not to design a practical product.
Yet another wind-up/crank USB charger tool with everything but the kitchen sink. It even has ALIENS!
Compare Dave's survival kit with the LifeSaber and there is absolutely no contest, this boondoggle of a product has nothing to offer.
Dave's Kit:
LifeStraw: https://amzn.to/2Iw7d8c (https://amzn.to/2Iw7d8c)
Lumintop Tool AA Torch: https://amzn.to/35iajpS (https://amzn.to/35iajpS)
Foldable USB Solar Panel: https://amzn.to/2IwrFWt (https://amzn.to/2IwrFWt)
USB Battery Bank: https://amzn.to/2MmeBUz (https://amzn.to/2MmeBUz)
Outdoor matches: https://amzn.to/2VoBRpd (https://amzn.to/2VoBRpd)
Magnesium fire starter: https://amzn.to/2OvbEUq (https://amzn.to/2OvbEUq)
Garmin eTrex 20x: https://amzn.to/31WxWCn (https://amzn.to/31WxWCn)
About UV ultraviolet disinfectant systems: https://www.watercorporation.com.au/-/media/files/suppliers/resources/design-standards/ds110-ultraviolet-disinfection-systems.pdf (https://www.watercorporation.com.au/-/media/files/suppliers/resources/design-standards/ds110-ultraviolet-disinfection-systems.pdf)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qi2tL2IvxY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qi2tL2IvxY)
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All you need is $20 refillable butane lighter to make a camp file , you have your light and heat, you can use it to boil stream water and it will keep the wild critters
away
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It would have been much better if instead of a hand crank it had a thin rolled-up solar panel inside.
If you could take that thing and unroll a 20cm x 100cm solar sheet from it you would produce some good power.
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By the time you ever go on camping, the battery is dead unusable.
You have to keep spinning while using your telephone.
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By the time you ever go on camping, the battery is dead unusable.
You have to keep spinning while using your telephone.
Yep. I have a handcrank torch with a non-exchangeable battery. It's useless. The battery is essentially dead. It ties up both of your hands while you turn the crank, you have light but you cannot do anything with it. Never managed to charge it by turning the crank sufficiently to have more than a few seconds of light. I don't quite remember how I got it. Must've been a "gift".
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Dave, can you please remove the loud thumping noises from future videos, because it was very annoying to watch. Thank you!
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Well, they somehow "forgot" to mention that you absolutely need protection for that UV water purifier: It has to be glas as even PMMA (acrylic glas) doesn't transmit UV light at the wavelengths needed to disinfect water: UV-B starts at 315nm, but you really need UV-C (>280nm) when you want to disinfect water. PMMA starts to fully absorb UV at around 250nm (~50% transmittance at 280nm)...
You can't just make the glas thicker as that would imply getting custom lamps and a glas sleeve would create massive thermal problems. But even with protection, having to carry a glas lamp around in a survival kit just seems like an awful idea.
(Looks like they just used a blue led inside a semi-transparent plastic tube for their video, so they probably figured that one out...)
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Dave, can you please remove the loud thumping noises from future videos, because it was very annoying to watch. Thank you!
Timestamp?
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I didn’t see the ultrasonic dog-whistle, or a taser to fend off bears in the wilderness?
Maybe a selfie stick extension....since you’re out there in the beeyootiful, pristine wilderness.
With all that stored energy, perhaps it could include an immersion water heater?
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Not the first time the creator has lost money it seems, I hadn't read the comments before:
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=1]
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It looks like the dream tool for 12 year olds that run around the woods, kind of.
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Someone just pointed out they just edited out the alien part in the promo video! :-DD
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UV-C without any safety precautions .... not good, NOT good, there is a reason that EPROM erasers have interlocks!
Also UV-C leds are **extremely** expensive.
I kind of wonder if they got a bog-standard UV-A led and think that will kill stuff, instead of making them mildly warmer.
https://youtu.be/z2eKvh3q7ac?t=61
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I feel like someone thought they can put a mobile infantry marauder suit into an ipod (I think there are cold equations at work here that will make this impossible).
You can even see it with the simplest multitools, I think most people prefer the ones with like 3 functions vs 10 functions (leatherman). I feel like it has alot to do with how much distance/scouting you can do vs any thing else. I don't know if its a good idea to rely on light to purify water when you can get ultra reliable chlorine tablets that you can totally forget about and not worry that some battery will leak etc.
Also, is it good practice to try to scare wolves with flashlights? Maybe you can use the flash light before hand to find a stone to hit it with?
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[attachimg=1]
USB-A as connector for attachments on such "supposed-to-be-rugged" device?
IMO quite strange choice.
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I am actually curious, for someone that has went up against wild animals in real life, does it work to try to throw a heavy dense object like a stone at a wolf, small bear, etc?
Like how do they react if you miss? Like people usually go away so long you have more ammunition/they think you do (i.e. bottles) but what about a bear?
also, that alien space ship looks shady.. it looks like some kind of scrapper or military vehicle..
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I don't know if its a good idea to rely on light to purify water when you can get ultra reliable chlorine tablets that you can totally forget about and not worry that some battery will leak etc.
It's not a good idea, because you don't know the dosage required, and have no indicator of success. It's just whirl it around for a while and hope for the best.
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I assume those units come with a standard canteen and user manual and corrections for plastic water containers etc, but it seems difficult if you do something weird to survive like try to use water inside of chipped cliff for drinking and you don't have a container.. I would assume the makers of such devices try to make tables you can use
or even try to skim water that accumulated in low drainage spots like clay after a rain.. but you would be in dire straits (I assume these situations are way less common in hot australia).. but it could be as simple as dislodging a loose rock and waiting for rain to make a storage container if you are injured etc, the light would be very useful in this situation I think since it could basically provide you with a infinite supply of water so long you can patch any holes with leaves etc (extremely nasty however). I doubt most people would wanna leave a metro area for the rest of their lives if they had to do this technique, but I figure you could drink dirty but sterile water by holding a sock in your hand formed into a pipe shape to work as a silt filter.
Also, it might be able to in some capacity sterilize bandage materials if you soak them in water to conduct light (is this a thing?) or even do direct wound sterilization? or at least a 'final rinse' to use clean water on clothing you apply to injured membranes (trench foot)? but I assume hanging them up in the sun would work, or gasses from a fire
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Boiling the water will essentially do the same, so as long as you have fire and the possibility to boil water with it, you can do all that - and even clean the mug you want to fill it into.
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I never liked replacing water filters everytime they expire.
But I don't trust UV 100% either... What if it mutates a microbe, making it stronger instead of killing it? Combination is best, like chemical and boiling
It also makes me wonder, people who are so reliant on their phones that they can't resist charging it with a hand crank, will ever be in the wilderness? I mean, a guy in an accident won't have energy to do it, a guy stuck somewhere, won't have time to do it.
Btw, my approach to multipurpose device is a waterproof ammo can style box or pounch with
2x 11000mah power bank, (smaller 2500 mAh for pounch)
a USB plug sized laser 100mW that I made.
A USB 1w flashlight with lens
Lighter (waterproof,alcohol)(I can weld, do blacksmithing etc etc but I still burn my hands every time I use match sticks :P)
Thick thread
Cyanoacrylate glue
Stylisation pill, that I might replace with UV thingy
A Leatherman
I might pack a fire cracker for animals
To boil water, use the can itself (empty it first :P)
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I WANT A ZOMBIE UFO APOCALYPSE TOILET PAPER DISPENSER BUILT IN!
Noooooooo, they edited the best part out of the promo video, UFO and Alien! :palm:
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USB-A as connector for attachments on such "supposed-to-be-rugged" device?
IMO quite strange choice.
It was purely driven by their desire to help stranded alien's spaceships which have USB-A charging ports.
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Not an expert but i recall a UV lamp must emmit particular UV wavelength in order to have hermicidal effect.
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Well, they somehow "forgot" to mention that you absolutely need protection for that UV water purifier: It has to be glas as even PMMA (acrylic glas) doesn't transmit UV light at the wavelengths needed to disinfect water: UV-B starts at 315nm, but you really need UV-C (>280nm) when you want to disinfect water. PMMA starts to fully absorb UV at around 250nm (~50% transmittance at 280nm)...
You can't just make the glas thicker as that would imply getting custom lamps and a glas sleeve would create massive thermal problems. But even with protection, having to carry a glas lamp around in a survival kit just seems like an awful idea.
(Looks like they just used a blue led inside a semi-transparent plastic tube for their video, so they probably figured that one out...)
Quartz ideally. Devices do have some protection: https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-196/Adventurer-Opti-Water-Purifier (https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-196/Adventurer-Opti-Water-Purifier)
"
- This travel-sized water purifier is equipped with a new optical water sensor that activates the lamp only when it's immersed.
- The device is intended for treating clear water.
- Purifies 470ml of water (cold or warm) in less than one minute, or 950ml in a minute and a half.
- Manufacturer's tests indicate that disposable CR123 batteries will treat approximately 50L of water"
USB-A as connector for attachments on such "supposed-to-be-rugged" device?
IMO quite strange choice.
Its possible, at least they try to use a standard connector: https://www.holin-tech.com/waterproof-USB-A-type-3-connectors.htm (https://www.holin-tech.com/waterproof-USB-A-type-3-connectors.htm)
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Hand cranking has to be done at 120rpm??? :popcorn:
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The claim that this device can sterilize water as shown in the video is crazy. Nearly all water in the US in streams and lakes (and I guess the rest of the world) is contaminated with giardia, which can cause serious illness. People are likely to get sick and sue this company. Yes, UV sterilization of water is commonly used, but that doesn't mean the LifeSaber is going to work sufficiently well.
Short wavelength light is required (UV-C which is <280 nm). UV LED's for this wavelength are very expensive and have poor efficiency. What does the LifeSaber use, and what is the power output? Real UV sterilizers use mercury lamps made from quartz. Even UV lamps don't work well when the water is turbid.
Finally, when you sterilize water, you need to sterilize all of it. It only takes a few giardia parasites to cause sickness. This is going to be tough to do in an open container. That's why filters work well, because you are only exposed to water that has passed through the filter. Commercial UV sterilizers are also flow systems.
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Hand cranking has to be done at 120rpm??? :popcorn:
the need for several teenage boys to be part of the camping trip is mentioned briefly in the small print.
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They probably have a gearbox you can attach to your generator to crank it for you.
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They probably have a gearbox you can attach to your generator to crank it for you.
Stretch goal: A solar powered auto-cranker to automate the process.
(and it only weighs 1200 grams)
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Quartz ideally. Devices do have some protection: https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-196/Adventurer-Opti-Water-Purifier (https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5024-196/Adventurer-Opti-Water-Purifier)
Those devices just use a thick glas shroud, together with a sturdy plastic cap for transportation. The problem with the Lifesaber is that it won't sit tight on a bottle (the Steripens do, you just jam them into the opening of the bottle [the front is shaped conical] and shake the bottle). With the Lifesaber, you have to stirr the water with a 40cm long stick that has the uv light sitting at the end. That's a rather long lever should you manage to jam the light bulb, chances are that the glas shroud will just break.
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You're missing the point with the handwarmer extension.
You don't have to charge it up at great personal energy cost before warming yourself
You get warmed up by rotating the generator handle at high speed. No electrical heater is necessary.
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Dave, can you please remove the loud thumping noises from future videos, because it was very annoying to watch. Thank you!
Timestamp?
21:12 - 21:25 there is like 4 of them. But I hear them all over the video.
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The claim that this device can sterilize water as shown in the video is crazy. Nearly all water in the US in streams and lakes (and I guess the rest of the world) is contaminated with giardia, which can cause serious illness. People are likely to get sick and sue this company. Yes, UV sterilization of water is commonly used, but that doesn't mean the LifeSaber is going to work sufficiently well.
Short wavelength light is required (UV-C which is <280 nm). UV LED's for this wavelength are very expensive and have poor efficiency. What does the LifeSaber use, and what is the power output? Real UV sterilizers use mercury lamps made from quartz. Even UV lamps don't work well when the water is turbid.
Finally, when you sterilize water, you need to sterilize all of it. It only takes a few giardia parasites to cause sickness. This is going to be tough to do in an open container. That's why filters work well, because you are only exposed to water that has passed through the filter. Commercial UV sterilizers are also flow systems.
Did you read my post? Or see the device Dave found in the video?
Those devices just use a thick glas shroud, together with a sturdy plastic cap for transportation. The problem with the Lifesaber is that it won't sit tight on a bottle (the Steripens do, you just jam them into the opening of the bottle [the front is shaped conical] and shake the bottle). With the Lifesaber, you have to stirr the water with a 40cm long stick that has the uv light sitting at the end. That's a rather long lever should you manage to jam the light bulb, chances are that the glas shroud will just break.
Ah good point, as we've sort of covered already, at this stage its probably more of a "the technology exists so its probably do-able but we haven't actually thought of how to implement it properly yet".
I would be surprised if there aren't some patents as well that would make life difficult.
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I cant wait for the latest products to get a EEVblog review.
They should get a EEVblog approval stamp ( like the nintendo seal of quality ), before investing in these things.
Dont they know EEVblog exists ?, it really would saved them all the invested money.
I think they know ( to late now ).
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FWIW... Lifestraw kinda sucks compared to the Sawyer. I own a couple LS but won't buy again.
You can drink out of lifestraw by placing your head down into the water. You can do the same with Sawyer, but also fill a bottle. Not to mention the much smaller filter size on the Sawyer and it's almost 1/2 the size. It's a clear win.
Illustrated by this picture. https://www.primalsurvivor.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1-sawyer-mini-uses-1024x724.jpg (https://www.primalsurvivor.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1-sawyer-mini-uses-1024x724.jpg)