EEVblog #1260 - $70 100MHz Oscilloscope?

[cliffyk]

Let's load up the hair trigger double barrel shit machine gun and take them out!

Why would I take out manufacturer of a product I enjoy and that fits the need? So my only option is to buy $2000 Keysight?

I would rather everyone was honest with advertising, but even in that case Chinese vendors would not be first on my list.

It is like complaining about 1500W speakers. Just be real, and if you are clueless enough to buy those products on the provided specs, then does it really matter to you?

I read that as a facetious "wise crack", not something to be taken literally...

[james_s]

Why would I take out manufacturer of a product I enjoy and that fits the need? So my only option is to buy $2000 Keysight?

I would rather everyone was honest with advertising, but even in that case Chinese vendors would not be first on my list.

It is like complaining about 1500W speakers. Just be real, and if you are clueless enough to buy those products on the provided specs, then does it really matter to you?

I don't appreciate being lied to. Vendors that publish bogus specs are trying to deceive me, and I will not reward that behavior by purchasing their products. It may be obvious that the power rating on a set of cheap speakers is bogus, that does not make it ok to lie, and I'm not going to purchase them even if they would meet my actual needs.

[ataradov]

and I'm not going to purchase them even if they would meet my actual needs.

I have not had a single laptop or phone that would last as long as claimed spec. Obviously they are not lying, they are just choosing highly unlikely test conditions that do not represent real work loads (like playing video, which is all done with hardware decoders and does not take any CPU at all).

[james_s]

I have not had a single laptop or phone that would last as long as claimed spec. Obviously they are not lying, they are just choosing highly unlikely test conditions that do not represent real work loads (like playing video, which is all done with hardware decoders and does not take any CPU at all).

Sure, but for an oscilloscope there is a very standardized and accepted method of specifying bandwidth, and this scope in question is simply not capable of meeting the specified bandwidth under standard conditions, not even close. If it claimed 100MHz and could achieve 90MHz under ideal conditions that would be one thing, but this thing appears to struggle to reach 25MHz.

[x86guru]

Let's load up the hair trigger double barrel shit machine gun and take them out!

Why would I take out manufacturer of a product I enjoy and that fits the need? So my only option is to buy $2000 Keysight?

I would rather everyone was honest with advertising, but even in that case Chinese vendors would not be first on my list.

It is like complaining about 1500W speakers. Just be real, and if you are clueless enough to buy those products on the provided specs, then does it really matter to you?

Maybe this will help, but probably not.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hair%20triggered%20double%20barreled%20shit%20machine%20gun

[cliffyk]

Sure, but for an oscilloscope there is a very standardized and accepted method of specifying bandwidth, and this scope in question is simply not capable of meeting the specified bandwidth under standard conditions, not even close. If it claimed 100MHz and could achieve 90MHz under ideal conditions that would be one thing, but this thing appears to struggle to reach 25MHz.

Agreed 110% -- I was raised to understand that just because others behaved immorally did not grant me (or anyone else) permission to do likewise. 

Our society has become a real shit-show...

[all_repair]

Problem or issue is further complicated by dropshippers on ebay, aliexpress, etc that are selling these technical test equipment alongside with flower vase, phone casings, hair clip,etc .  When sourcing, these listers shall get the lowest price on their market which are mostly likely known-factory-rejects that they do not know, or do not care.   

Dave found a good deal for a process-calibration meter on aliexpress at an extremely good price.  He did a video blog, many people here sent in multiple orders fully knowing that they were faulty with the hope of fixing them, but could not even get one delivered.  Sellers did all kind of tricks after the market stock evaporated overnight so as to protect their online rating but these tricks actually worsen their rating as people here was aware of the situation and were willing to just reverse the order.  This is a side-track, but is revelant in sourcing cheap no/new brand equipment online at this juncture.  Maybe the situation may change, if it does likely the price shall proportionaly change with it. 

Different course needs different horse, and different horse need different rider. 

[cliffyk]

^^^+1000 or so...

[x86guru]

FNIRSI has taken gross incompetence to a new level! WOW, check this out.

Here is a video that FNIRSI created as "evidence" that they are completely and unquestionably inept. FNIRSI is saying the 5012H does have 100MHz bandwidth because the "expensive" DOS1102 is also rated at 100MHz and measures 3.3Vpp on a 5Vpp 25MHz sine just like the 5012H does. 



Here is the "evidence" that FNIRSI uploaded to AliExpress:

[Fungus]

You seem to be under the illusion that this is news to anybody.

All we see here is "20MHz, portable, touch-screen oscilloscope for $100-ish" - bargain!

Even Apple thinks they're cute, they filled their M1 development labs with them:

[x86guru]

You seem to be under the illusion that this is news to anybody.

I guess I was under the illusion that people would care to see how dishonest and dishonorable FNIRSI is.

[Fungus]

You seem to be under the illusion that this is news to anybody.

I guess I was under the illusion that people would care to see how dishonest and dishonorable FNIRSI is.

We knew that before they even released this device.

We also know that the CAT ratings on cheap multimeters are fake but we still but them because they're useful/cheap/good when you're working with low voltage.

[cliffyk]

FNIRSI has taken gross incompetence to a new level! WOW, check this out.

You are just being argumentative and picky--they used the finest quality HF alligator clip test leads they could find...

[cliffyk]

You seem to be under the illusion that this is news to anybody.

All we see here is "20MHz, portable, touch-screen oscilloscope for $100-ish" - bargain!

Even Apple thinks they're cute, they filled their M1 development labs with them:

I'm 74 and could not really watch that Apple blurb. The bit I saw reminded me of the dystopian "not-too-far-off" future movie "The Circle"--as does everything Zuckerberg has ever said or done; particularly his most recent mouth farts--it features Emma Watson as a gullible naive "millennial"and Tom Hanks as a Jobs/Musk/Zuckerberg amalgam--if you haven't seen it, seek it out...

[x86guru]

I gave FNIRSI a video showing my Siglent SDS1202X-E measuring the 5Vpp 25MHz sine with a correct 5Vpp measurement compared to the 5012H measuring only 3.3Vpp and FNIRSI said the following:



FNIRSI claim it's not fair to compare a 25MHz signal measurement from a 200MHz scope with the 5012H.



FNIRSI is dumber than a box of rubber hammers.

I just sent them a video showing the exact same 5Vpp 25MHz sine measuring 5Vpp on my Rigol 100MHz MSO1104z. I wonder what they are going to say next. I expect they will say something like the Rigol has too many buttons so it's not a valid comparison?

[Bud]

 

[ataradov]

They are not dumb, their goal is to waste your time until you give up. Is this process really worth your time? What is the end goal here? Unless free returns were claimed on the offer, they will eventually offer you to return the device. The cost of shipping it back to China would be astronomical.

[cliffyk]

I don't think they are inept, in fact they seem to be very accomplished and capable liars, not letting facts get in the way of their oxen-scheisse...

[x86guru]

They are not dumb, their goal is to waste your time until you give up. Is this process really worth your time? What is the end goal here? Unless free returns were claimed on the offer, they will eventually offer you to return the device. The cost of shipping it back to China would be astronomical.

It's already been granted in my favor for a full refund without returning. FNIRSI continue to add fake evidence, so I guess they are trying to stall issuing the refund.

[Fungus]

FNIRSI is dumber than a box of rubber hammers.

Why? They're presenting evidence to somebody who knows nothing about oscilloscopes. Engineer talk about 3dB points isn't the smart way to do that.

[x86guru]

FNIRSI is dumber than a box of rubber hammers.

Why? They're presenting evidence to somebody who knows nothing about oscilloscopes. Engineer talk about 3dB points isn't the smart way to do that.

The case has already been granted in my favor. FNIRSI is still trying to convince me (not AliExpress) that their 5012H has 100MHz of analog bandwidth.

[cliffyk]

FNIRSI is dumber than a box of rubber hammers.

Why? They're presenting evidence to somebody who knows nothing about oscilloscopes. Engineer talk about 3dB points isn't the smart way to do that.

I don't understand your comment--the -3 dB, (1/2 power) "point" has been the standard by which oscilloscope bandwidth has been specified for at least 30 years--probably more. Any 'scope manufacturer or vendor (or even electronic hobbyist) that doesn't know that is far beyond incompetent...

[Fungus]

I don't understand your comment.

They're presenting evidence to alixpress, not you.

[cliffyk]

I don't understand your comment.

They're presenting evidence to alixpress, not you.

Aha--I understand your perspective; although it seem Ali is forwarding the "evidence" to FNRSI (who seem to be intent on developing silly rebuttals that only serve to prove their malintent, incompetence, or combination of the two). They obviously are devoid of character.

I am surprised that AliExpress has apparently agreed to a refund, though 'twas I I'd not hold my breath waiting for it.

It is important for consumers to "fight back" against unscrupulous manufacturers and vendors using any and all available means, it is the only way this activity can be knocked down--to sit back and proclaim "that's the way the world is now" resolves nothing--complacency never got anything fixed.

"...the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
    and the complacency of fools will destroy them"

-Proverbs 1:32-

[x86guru]

Aha--I understand your perspective; although it seem Ali is forwarding the "evidence" to FNRSI (who seem to be intent on developing silly rebuttals that only serve to prove their malintent, incompetence, or combination of the two). They obviously are devoid of character.

I am surprised that AliExpress has apparently agreed to a refund, though 'twas I I'd not hold my breath waiting for it.

It is important for consumers to "fight back" against unscrupulous manufacturers and vendors using any and all available means, it is the only way this activity can be knocked down--to sit back and proclaim "that's the way the world is now" resolves nothing--complacency never got anything fixed.

"...the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
    and the complacency of fools will destroy them"

-Proverbs 1:32-

I would assume that AliExpress "steps in" lots of disputes relating to FNIRSI's fictional specifications. I did provide AliExpress these facts which FNIRSI ignored: