Author Topic: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!  (Read 3253 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« on: November 27, 2019, 10:54:27 pm »
Review of the $53 Riden (RD Tech / Rui Deng) RD6006 360W bench lab power supply module with WiFi connection.
http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DlHrJpFS

 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2019, 11:14:06 pm »
Test gear thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ruideng-riden-rd6006-dc-power-supply/

$53 not including a case or AC-DC PSU. But in my case neither of those were needed, so the price was valid.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2019, 11:38:32 pm »
Horrible noise. Would only be good for basic digital circuits or a coffee warmer.
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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2019, 12:10:06 am »
Horrible noise. Would only be good for basic digital circuits or a coffee warmer.

I haven't watched it yet but he is measuring the pulse height at:
24:54 ~500mV p-p with no load
25:34 ~550mV p-p with 5V and 1A load

I didn't measure anything close to that, it could be coming from a bad source PSU or related to the rigol load and external EMI.

I'm seeing pulse heights of:
<100mV p-p no load 5V
75mV p-p no load 25V
160mV p-p 5V 6A

My source PSU = 30V meanwell so not directly comparable to his setup. I'm sure another owner with 60V source can comment. Or you can measure it fed with a linear PSU to eliminate source PSU issues.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 12:17:57 am by thm_w »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2019, 12:31:59 am »
What is the relationship between RD6006 PSU input(-) and PSU output (-) and digital ground? All connected together? In other words, how is USB-ground related to the PSU output (-)? I wondered if it all is floating, including the Meanwell.

The DPS modules have an N-ch MOSFET switch at the (-) output (to allow battery charging, no backfeed) which can cause a lot of confusion or a ground fault if the USB port/Serial is earth-grounded to a PC, and you switch off the module you still get current flow.
I've added chokes + Y-caps to lower (DPS) noise but without remote-sense, you get sag under load so it  was not a great idea.

edit: the RDENG USB boards have isolation.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 10:51:29 pm by floobydust »
 

Offline amspire

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2019, 01:01:03 am »
I have had a power supply die when charging 12V lead acid batteries and the mains fails. The current from the battery goes back into the power supply to release the magic smoke. It could be that the Battery charging mode has a series diode or mosfet with sense leads after the diode.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 01:04:19 am by amspire »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2019, 01:20:35 am »
What is the relationship between RD6006 PSU input(-) and PSU output (-) and digital ground? All connected together? In other words, how is USB-ground related to the PSU output (-)? I wondered if it all is floating, including the Meanwell.

When its off I'm not measuring a connection, you'd have to look at the PCB to see whats connected. Earth ground shouldn't be connected, meanwell PSU is floating.
I did not measure any resistance between USB ground and (-) output terminal.
You can see in SDG's video at 12:23, the USB is isolated from the rest of the board. They use a CH340 (U11) then some isolator chip (U13)?

Quote
The DPS modules have an N-ch MOSFET switch at the (-) output (to allow battery charging, no backfeed) which can cause a lot of confusion or a ground fault if the USB port/Serial is earth-grounded to a PC, and you switch off the module you still get current flow.
I've added chokes + Y-caps to lower (DPS) noise but without remote-sense, you get sag under load so it  was not a great idea.

This PSU has a dedicated battery output and a relay on the +, so it should not be an issue.
As for the noise, you might be better off adding filtering on the input.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 01:33:38 am by thm_w »
 

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2019, 01:20:50 am »
A 20V, 18A version would probably be more useful for use with general purpose electronics - just enough to cover powering laptops and mini desktop PCs. Of the hobbyist uses for voltages between 20V and 60V, audio is the only one I can think of that's very common.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 01:22:13 am »
Oops, I goofed the noise measurement  :palm:
It's actually about 60mVp-p no load and about 100mVp-p at 6A using a proper scope probe in X10. I was using a BNC cable with banana plugs and forgot the 50ohm series matcher. Oops. Will have to do another video showing this. Good excuse for a video on this topic anyway.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 01:25:05 am »
What is the relationship between RD6006 PSU input(-) and PSU output (-) and digital ground? All connected together? In other words, how is USB-ground related to the PSU output (-)? I wondered if it all is floating, including the Meanwell.

USB seems isolated from the front panel ground.
 

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Polly put the kettle on ?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 03:11:23 am »
Dave

Be  extremely  careful with downloading files    from China, they are notoriously for  containing  malware  and  other malicious    garbage

Anyway,  another video  on  measuring  ripple , load  , and line  regulation over   the voltage   range  would be great.  Even  putting the   DC-DC converter
under  full load for a  period of time  would   be awesome.  8) 

 Or doing a HI-Pot test  on  the DC-DC converter   from   the input to output  to see of  their is  good isolation   would be good test
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 03:42:28 am by johnlsenchak »
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Offline sibeen

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 03:24:17 am »
Is there a chance that when in battery charging mode the unit starts off in constant current mode, 0.5 amp in the video, and then when it hits the set voltage, 1.5 volts, it then switches to a constant voltage mode?

It should do.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2019, 04:24:43 am »
Is there a chance that when in battery charging mode the unit starts off in constant current mode, 0.5 amp in the video, and then when it hits the set voltage, 1.5 volts, it then switches to a constant voltage mode?

It does change modes, buy any PSU will do that with a set voltage. There is a  discrepancy between the charge display value and the read display value too, not a good vibe.
Apparently it cuts off at 10% current level.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Polly put the kettle on ?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2019, 06:04:29 am »
Anyway,  another video  on  measuring  ripple , load  , and line  regulation over   the voltage   range  would be great.  Even  putting the   DC-DC converter
under  full load for a  period of time  would   be awesome.  8) 

 Or doing a HI-Pot test  on  the DC-DC converter   from   the input to output  to see of  their is  good isolation   would be good test

It seemed to overheat in the vid. Even 90% efficiency at 360W, I don't think that little fan can deal with anything close to 36W. 360W is more of a peak rating presumably.

There is no DC-DC input to output isolation. You are relying on the source PSU isolation, which in the case of Meanwell is going to be very good (3kVAC): https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/RSP-320/RSP-320-spec.pdf
 

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2019, 06:13:55 am »
I wish the next/future variant, they will come out with linear pre-regulator (good designed one of course), and even with 20 bucks price increase, definitely I will instantly jump on it.

Offline james_s

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2019, 08:07:27 am »
A 20V, 18A version would probably be more useful for use with general purpose electronics - just enough to cover powering laptops and mini desktop PCs. Of the hobbyist uses for voltages between 20V and 60V, audio is the only one I can think of that's very common.

Lots of 24/28V gear out there, large trucks and aircraft are 24V. I have quite a few different 24V devices kicking around.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2019, 08:24:13 am »
A 20V, 18A version would probably be more useful for use with general purpose electronics - just enough to cover powering laptops and mini desktop PCs. Of the hobbyist uses for voltages between 20V and 60V, audio is the only one I can think of that's very common.

Lots of 24/28V gear out there, large trucks and aircraft are 24V. I have quite a few different 24V devices kicking around.

+1 , and if you look hard enough, especially in big cities where the cellular network gets upgraded often, think of GSM/AMPS era up to current 4G or even 5G, here what I scored few years ago from local contractors that were constantly working/upgrading cellular base station towers.

Still have 6 of these gathering dust in my closet scored cheaply from them.  :P


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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2019, 09:30:07 am »
Dave, not related with the product in question, but what kind of stackable leads are you using?

I said that because they are close to what I find for sale in the Huaqiangbei Electronics Market in Shenzhen, and wanted to know if you build themselves, if you bought them from Aliexpress or from another shop like RS Electronics or Farnell.
 

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2019, 11:27:29 am »

Many  years ago  , I worked  for a company  that was dedicated to making  switch  mode and linear  power supplies  for the telecommunication  market mainly  for companies like  "Tie  Communication" that   who  made  PBX  phone  systems.   Doing  Hi-Pot  testing  across  the primary to  secondary  and also  primary  to ground  was a  real  important  test  after  hours of  burn in testing .   It was something to see  those power supplies  take  thousands  of volts  of  short pules of  abuse  to verify that the   switch mode transformer  would  not short  over  and fail   Now  in days you see isolation    slots in the PC board  between the  primary  to secondary, back then when you hit the test button  you risked a nasty shock  if you didn't  pay  attention to what you where doing .    I  strongly  believe  that  this  type of testing  is  a good indicator  of the quality of the power supply  since it proves  isolation and therefore the  safety of    device when  under load  conditions
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Online Kleinstein

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2019, 12:39:45 pm »
.....
It seemed to overheat in the vid. Even 90% efficiency at 360W, I don't think that little fan can deal with anything close to 36W. 360W is more of a peak rating presumably.

There is no DC-DC input to output isolation. You are relying on the source PSU isolation, which in the case of Meanwell is going to be very good (3kVAC): https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/RSP-320/RSP-320-spec.pdf

The efficiency depends on the output voltage. With high output voltage the losses won't be so high, as the efficiency will be much higher. So at 360 W out and thus some 60 V a d 6 A efficiency would be more like 98%, as most of the power just goes though. The worst case is more like 60 V in and 25 V out.


The switching ringing at the output looks pretty bad. It is kind of odd to have so infrequent pulse and the main ripply looks like faster in between.
The use interface on the other side looks pretty good.
 
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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2019, 02:14:31 pm »
Now the burning question:
will the µSupply beat it and in which points?

I kind of search for some mobile power supply for stuff like Startrackers or Timelapse cameras and such.
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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2019, 03:16:42 pm »
$44 on banggood now...

https://www.banggood.com/custlink/3vKGbv6WUq

just ordering one now...

I do a lot of car electronics, so might just get the small case and add jacks so I can apply the 13.8V car battery, this gives me enough current and power to do my work.

Hope uSupply (is that what it is going to be called?) works better.

RichardS
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 03:25:28 pm by tmf »
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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2019, 03:32:17 pm »
...

The efficiency depends on the output voltage. With high output voltage the losses won't be so high, as the efficiency will be much higher. So at 360 W out and thus some 60 V a d 6 A efficiency would be more like 98%, as most of the power just goes though. The worst case is more like 60 V in and 25 V out.

...

The worst scenatio of a basic buck converter which -- as it seems -- the RD6006 contains in its power section, will be maximum input voltage and minimum output voltage at maximum current.

This means full inductor losses (due to the high current and high frequency components in the signal involved), highest free-wheeling diode conduction losses (it seems the RD6006 doesn't utilize synchronous rectification but a schottky diode instead) since it's almost all the time carrying the current, and highest switching losses in the MOSFET. The latter is probably the smallest contribution factor of all this dissipation. Conduction losses in the MOSFET are usually also rather small in comparison, regardless of the duty cycle.

At an output voltage of half the input voltage, the situation is much more benign regarding diode losses since it's got to conduct the current only 50% of the time.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 12:40:35 am by TurboTom »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2019, 03:43:12 pm »
I'm not very impressed by the fuse installment on that Mean Well PS.


 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: EEVblog #1265 - $53 360W Lab Bench PSU!
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2019, 05:17:55 pm »
Oops, I goofed the noise measurement  :palm:
It's actually about 60mVp-p no load and about 100mVp-p at 6A using a proper scope probe in X10. I was using a BNC cable with banana plugs and forgot the 50ohm series matcher. Oops. Will have to do another video showing this. Good excuse for a video on this topic anyway.

Still in the ballpark of "horrible noise", no good for analog stuff. But you're right, the noise visible on the scope way way above the expected 100mVpp (as shown somewhere within the manual). From my experience, there're many people around not knowing how to measure the ripple correctly, so go on with the topic in a video.

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