Author Topic: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED  (Read 7558 times)

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Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2019, 08:37:41 pm »
I had not heard of this crazy scheme until Dave's video so I approached this with an open mind. As soon as I heard that such a small cube was meant to generate 1Kw then, click, my bullshit light went off. After that everything else was secondary.

Never

Going

To

Work

Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline floobydust

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2019, 10:09:07 pm »
I'd like to put a couple cubes on my bicycle. Imagine the speed, the power!
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2019, 10:47:41 pm »
I missed this bit were he suggests putting the magic turbeans over a building's air conditioning air outlets to produce electricity, he doesn't seem to realize that blocking the air outlets even partially would waste more energy than is recovered. Intentionally or not, I don't think he could be any closer to an over unity nutter. :)

https://youtu.be/NcQFRXriVDc?t=123

AC wouldn't work, but you could harvest some energy from exhaust gas venting. Its risky though, because then if the outlet were somehow blocked you'd get nasty fumes going back into the building.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2019, 12:18:16 am »
They're sticking by their bonkers claims on FB. :horse:

Yesterday at 05:16 ·
"Again, American Wind, Inc's products are not theory. We have been verified and certified in a wind tunnel. Lots of equipment and engineers went into the testing and we have posted a summary statement before as the full report contains proprietary information."
www.facebook.com/AmericanWindInc
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2019, 12:25:13 am »
Solar panels start making electricity as soon as the light gets intense enough  would you also argue it's not significant. What's the difference? Solar panels take whatever is there to be got so why not do the same with wind.
The only difference is the cubic law vs linear law for the theoretical maximum power.

10 times drop in light intensity translates into 10 times drop in power that can be absorbed by photovoltaic cell. 10 times slower wind translates into 1000 times less power available from kinetic energy of moving air.
I'll grant you that's a practical difference. But my main point was about the arbitrariness of defining a level of energy as below a significant level. This topic as have previous topics of a similar nature have a tendency to descend into uncritical comment  for amusement only.

I haven't seen what the video said but from the comments on youtube I gather the product has claims, or a single claim, which are questionable.  I believe the company is trying to make a product that will harvest wind in places where large turbines cannot be placed for whatever reason. The customers who put large installations of these in buildings will hopefully be expert and capable of determining whether they are a reasonable concept at whatever capacity they really will demonstrate in actual onsite usage. Until then investors need to be careful as they always should be and do their due diligence.

It is a pity the inventor suggests some impractical applications which inevitably invite ridicule. If these cubes were dissociated from such ideas then they could be evaluated on their actual real world performance. Lots of ideas fail to achieve commercial success. This may  be another one. We'll see.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2019, 12:43:07 am »
If these cubes were dissociated from such ideas then they could be evaluated on their actual real world performance.

They've had years to put one of their magical cubes outside and measure the Watt(s) it produces, I know why they haven't. :)
They insist on sucking the air out of the back of it in a wind tunnel, but free air doesn't work like that. :)
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline station240

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2019, 05:15:36 am »
As soon as I save the thumbnail image I knew this was BS, didn't even need to watch the video.

That tiny fan is supposed to be more efficient than a huge wind turbine ? lol
Reynolds Number alone is reason enough that larger blade diameter = more efficient.

Case in point, model aircraft jet engines have very marginal Reynolds Number/efficiency, it's amazing they work at all.
Compare that to the full size ones which are WW2 era technology. You'd think someone who designed jet engines would know about this.
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2019, 05:52:36 am »
Why aren't we looking at the electrical? Where are the diodes? Interconnect between cubes at the 100kW level is a "spring"  :scared:  should be some some thick wiring...
You can only stuff so many magnets of a certain size, and coils within the hub or rotor of a microcube and I don't see the power density there. I guess you'd need dimensions and of course the patent has many pancake generator configurations to further dilute the reality uh I mean technology.
 

Offline Domagoj T

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2019, 07:58:44 am »
Quote
American Wind Inc
November 22, 2016 ·
Last week, American Wind, Inc ran our turbine through the wind tunnel. In this video you see the MicroSphere ( adapted for the wind tunnel ) running in the open environment at VERY low wind speeds for the wind tunnel. Actually it is at idle. ( around 6ms ) In this wind speed we out preformed what previous data had showed us and had very high voltage. After this we closed up with wind tunnel and performed a full test run which you can see in the time lapse. All in all it was a successful day of testing.

High voltage, ok; but what about power? Or are they testing open circuit?
Besides, isn't 6m/s in the ballpark of average wind speeds on Earth?
 

Offline Doom-the-Squirrel

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2019, 08:37:48 am »
I missed this bit were he suggests putting the magic turbeans over a building's air conditioning air outlets to produce electricity

Freakin' Magic Turbeans !!

From the makers of the Turbo Encabulator!
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2019, 10:47:34 am »
From the makers of the Turbo Encabulator!

Kudos to Mr. Yost for thinking out of the box:

"There's an industry long standing fixation on power generation by the relative motion of conventional conductors and fluxes, with total disregard for the scientific research (*) in the field of panandermic semi-boloid stator magnetoreluctance and synchronous-sequential noninductive transformers."

(*) Zeitschrift für Physik, LBM-1. Wissenschaftliche Presse, Berlin.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 04:23:24 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2019, 11:59:01 am »
I haven't seen what the video said but from the comments on youtube I gather the product has claims, or a single claim, which are questionable.
It's the main claim, and it's not "questionable", it's impossible by orders of magnitude.

It is a pity the inventor suggests some impractical applications which inevitably invite ridicule.
Typical from scammers. Target the application people know about, you get much more exposure that way.


One of the applications I heard was to incorporate this cube into buildings to capture the wind striking the face of the building. Now I can't say I know what a breeze against the face of a skyscraper does when it has to move out of the way but I wouldn't be surprise if someone informed me it tries to get past the edge at a much higher velocity.
That's wind-powered solar roadways. You could put small, expensive, inefficient, non-durable wind cubes in impractical locations... or you could put an actual wind turbine that works efficiently and will last a bit further away.

But my main point was about the arbitrariness of defining a level of energy as below a significant level
It's not arbitrary, it's based on the cost/burden of the installation (and energy/matter it takes to produce it) and what you'll get in return. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to get that advertising a range that gets almost zero out just because it allows to quote a cool number is BS and is done only to mislead poeple.
 

Offline max_torque

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2019, 01:13:20 pm »
Right, so here's the plan:


we use a Windwall generator to make power, which we feed into a uBeam device to transfer to a large array of lamps, and the light from those falls onto a solar roadway, then that electricity is used to charge up rechargable batteries, which are then fully depleted using some batteryisers  :box:


At the end of that chain, i'd immagine we get out at least 10 times as much power as we put in given the respective claims of each of those scammers.........


#savingtheworldonescamatatime

 :-DD
 
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Offline max_torque

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2019, 01:20:51 pm »
As soon as I save the thumbnail image I knew this was BS, didn't even need to watch the video.

That tiny fan is supposed to be more efficient than a huge wind turbine ? lol
Reynolds Number alone is reason enough that larger blade diameter = more efficient.

Case in point, model aircraft jet engines have very marginal Reynolds Number/efficiency, it's amazing they work at all.
Compare that to the full size ones which are WW2 era technology. You'd think someone who designed jet engines would know about this.


It's a problem that in our marketing lead, computer rendered, social media driven world, basic engineering is now far, far down the list of "skills"

For example, at a basic level, just because some device is optimum in one type of application makes it in no-way optimum for another.  The windscammer says "i looked at jet engine technology" because they are very efficient, but so what?  Let me give you an example:  The wheels on your push bike are really efficient.  Super light, and have very low rolling resistance.  Ok, that's great, lets fit them to you car because that must be good right, i mean they are terrific on a bike.  Of course, as soon as you let the car off the jack the wheel will collapse, and even if they don't, as soon as you turn the first corner they will fail because bike wheels don't take lateral loads.

So to suggest a turbine blade design used in a ultra high performance heat engine is in any way "optimum" for a wind turbine should immediately raise peoples suspicions.  As you say, a jet turbine disc operates at vastly different reynolds numbers and critically requires matching stators to optimise the AoA for it to actually work.
 

Offline Niels

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2019, 02:39:28 pm »
This is odd - power going up about linear with wind speed in the low speed range.  This kind of indicates they have a problem with there math. The accepted theory has the power going up like the wind speed to the cube, so much faster.
The energy in the wind is going up with power cubed.
P=0.5*rho*V3*A*Cp  where Cp is Power Coefficient.
The theoretical max. Cp is 0.59 Betz law.
The Cpvalue of an actual turbine varies with pitch angle, windspeed, and rotational speed.
Windturbine manufactures optimize the turbine to have optimal Cp at the windspeed where it is designed to have the most operational hours. Usually 0.45 at 7-8 m/s.
Since the Cp often is like a negative second order polynomial (with a top point of 0.45 at 7-8 m/s.) the power curve becomes almost linear between cut-in and rated.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2019, 04:45:54 pm »
7 years worth of high tech aerodynamic development.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2019, 05:17:34 pm »
This video is too complicated.

It's easy for them to prove to us that it works, they can just hook up 16x 60W light bulbs to one of their little fans and light them all up in a wind.

Even a politician/VC investor should to be able to comprehend the math behind that (ie. 1000W/60W = 16 bulbs).

 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2019, 05:32:32 pm »
60W light bulbs don't exist anymore, and you know the scammers will use "60W equivalent" LED bulbs but show the 60W label :P
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2019, 05:37:45 pm »

It is well understood that a batterizer between the windmill and car can mitigate losses and assures 800% better efficiency than existing solutions.

Only if it the system is interconnected with cryogenic-aligned, 100% oxygen free copper wire with Teflon insulation.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 05:40:45 pm by schmitt trigger »
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2019, 06:49:51 pm »
Am I the only one who thinks that those turbine blades look like a PC fan?
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2019, 07:18:10 pm »
Looks like the extractor fan in my kitchen.
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 

Online Twoflower

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2019, 07:24:50 pm »
60W light bulbs don't exist anymore, and you know the scammers will use "60W equivalent" LED bulbs but show the 60W label :P
If you can't buy them here doesn't mean that you can't get them elsewhere. Like in the the USA: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CB27O4
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2019, 07:41:36 pm »
Oh dear, they've replied again, they still don't seem to realize that they're testing what the electrical generator can produce, rather than what a real wind would.

"The points the gentleman made in his YouTube are all questions we’ve answered before, and then proven." :-DD

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanWindInc/posts/1215085805347714
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2019, 08:56:47 pm »
Oh dear, they've replied again, they still don't seem to realize that they're testing what the electrical generator can produce, rather than what a real wind would.

"The points the gentleman made in his YouTube are all questions we’ve answered before, and then proven." :-DD

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanWindInc/posts/1215085805347714

Quote
"The points the gentleman made in his YouTube are all questions we’ve answered before, and then proven. With both mathematics and physical tests. But we won’t trash talk or mock the gentleman who made the video, we instead invite him to visit and see for himself and work with us to explain all his “questions” as we do have limited information online about our technology so it’s easy to see sometimes how he is skeptical as he doesn’t have all or even 50% of the information and has to make a lot of assumptions"

A "batterizer" style reply... They too have got some (secret) technology that allows the turbeans to squeeze the wind and obtain 10x the energy it has. :-DD
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: EEVblog #1271 - 100kW WindWall Generator BUSTED
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2019, 09:21:59 pm »
60W light bulbs don't exist anymore, and you know the scammers will use "60W equivalent" LED bulbs but show the 60W label :P
If you can't buy them here doesn't mean that you can't get them elsewhere. Like in the the USA: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CB27O4
It was a joke. Doubled by the fact that changing said 60W light bulbs by LEDs would save more than what their fans ever would produce.
 


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