Author Topic: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing  (Read 9854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32045
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« on: December 26, 2019, 10:07:22 pm »
Testing 7 different brands of AA Alkaline batteries in two different configurations over 10 months to see if they leak. Duracell, Energizer, Varta, Panasonic, Fujitsu,
HVP70 High Voltage Probe: https://www.eevblog.com/product/hvp70/
Subscribe on LBRY: https://lbry.tv/@eevblog:7




 
The following users thanked this post: SeanB, Electro Detective

Offline darik

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 40
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2019, 10:52:57 pm »
I don't think being completely discharged is what is important with alkalines. I know old school carbon batteries were guaranteed to leak if deeply discharged, I think that's why people associate being discharged with leaking. But I've been getting out my meter when I discover a leaky alkaline lately and I've yet to happen across one below 1.2V. They're usually in the 1.3-1.4 V range. Most of the time when I find a leaky battery the device is still powering up fine with the leaky battery in it.

So I think it's either the really slow discharge you mentioned in the video or perhaps being discharged somewhat then being left idle for a long time that causes it.
 
The following users thanked this post: I wanted a rude username, mcovington

Offline johnlsenchak

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 400
  • Country: us
  • js@antihotmail.com
    • paypal.me/johnsenchak
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2019, 11:14:54 pm »

Outback  Dave

I remember you  doing that battery  video  months  ago, and putting them on  the window  sill . I always   wondered  what  happened  to those sets  of  batteries


I'm  not a battery expert, I  don't claim to be one  but could it be that the  leakage  occurs  in   battery compartments  which is  in a dark   enclosure .  That nasty 
formation  is  like  black  mold  which   needs  certain  conditions  to  grow.   I base this  as a kid   in the seventies , when  this   corrosion   occurred in  radio and tape
cassette player   compartments  using  real  cheap  batteries  with the covers on , not in the broad  daylight
John Senchak "Daytona  Beach  Florida "
 jls (at)  antihotmail.com   http://www.antihotmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/john.senchak.1
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32045
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 11:20:45 pm »
Now I'm thinking that perhaps, rather than run different brands, take the most notorious brand (Duracell) and just test those to discover the best mechanism for leakage FIRST, before testing all the brands?

And maybe get a bunch of small $2 farting novelty gadgets that takes two AA's that has a small standby current. I could get dozens of these on AliExpress and run various combinations.
Product recommendations?


 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32045
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2019, 11:21:20 pm »
I'm  not a battery expert, I  don't claim to be one  but could it be that the  leakage  occurs  in   battery compartments  which is  in a dark   enclosure .  That nasty 
formation  is  like  black  mold  which   needs  certain  conditions  to  grow.   I base this  as a kid   in the seventies , when  this   corrosion   occurred in  radio and tape
cassette player   compartments  using  real  cheap  batteries  with the covers on , not in the broad  daylight

That is certainly possible.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32045
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2019, 11:22:39 pm »
So I think it's either the really slow discharge you mentioned in the video or perhaps being discharged somewhat then being left idle for a long time that causes it.

Yep, this is why I think the next test needs to be done with a large number of variations in environmental conditions.
 

Online Kleinstein

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7904
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2019, 11:29:34 pm »
I have seen different cells leak.  Leakage may be favored at higher temperature. In an electric thermostat I had 2 sets of batteries leak after some 1.5-2 years, about when they go empty (e.g. still some 1 to 1.2 V left). Temperature cycles could also be an issue. As general temperature can accelerate aging.

The cells usually have a date written on them - It gives an indication when you may start to see leakage, not just when considerable charge is lost due to self discharge.

With NiCd cells I noticed the orientation (which side up) can also make a difference.  I don't remember which way, but I had a set from an electric tool where 3 out of 10 cells started leaking, all in the same orientation (preferred with one pole up).

Todays batteries may be different from the ones 5 years ago - especially brands that had problems before could have improved or at least changed.
 

Offline texaspyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1399
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 11:31:22 pm »
Look at the expiration date on the batteries.  Your probe batteries expired in 2018.  I've found that almost all batteries don't leak until after the expiration date... of course there are exceptions.   You may need to extend the test for a decade or so.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2396
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2019, 11:34:53 pm »
I have seen many leaked Duracell alkaline batteries... But I never bought them much.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline MBY

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: se
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2019, 12:20:57 am »
I've had Duracell 9V/PP3 with 6 AAAA batteries explode, one by one in a drawer. A very sharp and loud bang, like from a gun, a very unpleasant sound. The cells was in my "recycle"-bin drawer where I collect used batteries and those where maybe 20 years old. Not connected to anything and stone dead. It obviously took some time the first time to figure out why a loud bang appeared from nowhere.

The multiple of anecdotes is not data, but I can't help notice that I'm one of those that has only seen Duracel leak (or freaking explode!), except one "Ocel" branded battery, once. I've also seen button NiMH and NiCd cells explode spontaneously (not connected to anything), but from GP and that has been violent as well.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2111
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2019, 01:00:41 am »
I think you can rule out age as being a factor, last week I found another gadget with Duracells in it from 2002.   :phew:


 
The following users thanked this post: Syntax Error

Offline Syntax Error

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 337
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2019, 01:08:56 am »
Back in my tech support days, we would change out hundreds of Duracell 'industrial' alkaline batteries. Never had leakage issues except at the end of summer, especially after a heat wave. The electrolyte seemed to liquify. The same crystals in your video would wreck a pager or two. Maybe cook a few cells on the window in the extreme summer sun? Or store some others in the dark, and see how many months they last in 2020?
Now under Lockdown Tier 3/Red Alert/Very High/Confused.com
 

Offline sakujo7

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2019, 03:50:33 am »
No clue about the leaks but I suspect every set got reverse discharged at least a little bit initially, but some brands had a much higher self-discharge in the reverse state (due to different electrode construction?), resulting in both cells being pulled down to zero.

The batteries showing a significant negative voltage could then be considered "better" since they held the invalid state they were forced into, or "worse" since a user could try multiple reversed cells in a product without reverse polarity protection and kill it...
 
The following users thanked this post: mcovington

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32045
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2019, 05:43:05 am »
Quite a few people are saying aluminimum torches, so maybe I'll get a bunch of these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?trafficChannel=main&d=y&CatId=0&SearchText=aa+aluminium+flashlight&ltype=wholesale&SortType=price_asc&groupsort=1&page=1
But they are only single AA

Several new cells, and several with various amounts of drain (two of each for more than one sample size)
And then an entire duplicate set in the thermal chamber at say 35C
Focus on Duracell first to see if we can get one to leak, then we should have a baseline to work from of other brands.
Sound plausible?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 05:46:06 am by EEVblog »
 

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7093
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2019, 05:51:03 am »
Put here just for references ... YARA series ...  :palm:

-> Yet Another Rotten Alkaline , Season 1 ...  :'(

=> Yet Another Rotten Alkaline, 2nd season  >:( >:( >:(

Enough said ...

Offline johnlsenchak

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 400
  • Country: us
  • js@antihotmail.com
    • paypal.me/johnsenchak
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 06:15:49 am by johnlsenchak »
John Senchak "Daytona  Beach  Florida "
 jls (at)  antihotmail.com   http://www.antihotmail.com
https://www.facebook.com/john.senchak.1
 

Offline Gary350z

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 198
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2019, 06:31:15 am »
Almost all of my batteries that have leaked, and there have been many, have been under no load. The devices had been mechanically switched off (with zero current draw), or they were not in a device. The only exception is in wall clocks, where I think the load is very small, but with repeated higher current current pulses to power the mechanical movement. In your test, maybe the load was to high, and the energy was sucked out in a few days, and there was no energy left in the battery to cause it to leak (whatever the leaking mechanism is). Also, I have batteries leak and there was still plenty of charge left in the battery, so the leakage problem is not necessarily because of being discharged.
 
The following users thanked this post: Dread

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4400
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2019, 06:34:14 am »
Quite a few people are saying aluminimum torches, so maybe I'll get a bunch of these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?trafficChannel=main&d=y&CatId=0&SearchText=aa+aluminium+flashlight&ltype=wholesale&SortType=price_asc&groupsort=1&page=1
But they are only single AA

Several new cells, and several with various amounts of drain (two of each for more than one sample size)
And then an entire duplicate set in the thermal chamber at say 35C
Focus on Duracell first to see if we can get one to leak, then we should have a baseline to work from of other brands.
Sound plausible?
So based on the Honeywell article perhaps only makes sense to use discharged to 0.8V batteries. And if to leave after with no load then store them at elevated temperature. If under load, put in a cooler.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3784
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2019, 06:52:33 am »
Duracell's POS seal patent has expired, good riddance to years of garbage leaking for saving pennies Mr. Warren Buffet. Eveready US6878486 mentions some tests they do.
It seems the seals are tested with temperature shifts, like a week cold, then a week at room temp, then a week hot etc. I'm not sure how hydrogen gas trickles out, or if a positive pressure pulse happens in a sealed flashlight when you screw the cover on.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 565
  • Country: hk
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2019, 09:55:16 am »
All batteries that I had leaking were batteries inside equipments, normally with good charge, stored away on power off state. None of them leaked after the Best Before date, and I'm talking about from Duracell Procell/Coopertop to Energizer and Varta (3 very common brands in Portugal).. Still until now had been luck with the Panasonic branded ones, from Evolta/Platinum Power to normal Alkaline ones. Toshiba the same thing, had some, never had a problem.
 

Online G7PSK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3705
  • Country: gb
  • It is hot until proved not.
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2019, 10:38:26 am »
To get the best chance of leakage the batteries need to be unused inside something with a small air capacity and left, something like a torch in a glove box in the car is guaranteed to leak. The smaller the battery compartment the better and yes in my experience Duracell leaks the best. Sony batteries are the least likely to leak so they are all I use in things like torches that don't get used much but need the batteries in for when they are needed,Otherwise Varta and panasonic for meters and anything used regularly if I cannot find Sony.
 

Offline WattSekunde

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 81
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2019, 01:19:17 pm »
I found Sharp AA batteries in mint condition from May 1980 in an old Sharp EL-211 Calculator with unbelievable 1.5V! Made in Japan, of course! ;-)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 01:25:18 pm by WattSekunde »
 

Offline Doom-the-Squirrel

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2019, 05:13:25 pm »
I've had Rayovac batteries leak at least once in a handheld weather band radio.

The thing takes three AAs.

I find this happens usually after more than a week, after the voltage has dropped below the cutoff.

Perhaps use one of those as well?


On a side note, I'm curious to see if the claim of the Energizer Ultimate Lithium not leaking is true.
So far, I've not seen them leak, but you never really know....

 
The following users thanked this post: Electro Detective

Offline mcovington

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2019, 08:13:53 pm »
We might also want to talk about best practices for cleaning up corrosion.  I use a mix of water and isopropyl alcohol; pure alcohol doesn't dissolve the stuff, and pure water doesn't evaporate fast enough afterward.  Then I clean with the smallest Dremel brush, and, when needed, re-tin the contacts, preferably with SnCu solder.  I've brought lots of equipment back to life this way, but others may have better techniques.
 

Offline mcovington

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2019, 08:23:55 pm »
Here is someone who found a leaky Duracell "ProCell" that was relatively new and still measured 1.6 V:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageElectronicTestEquipment/permalink/2614319435351899/

Actually, he indicates that there was more than one.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf