Author Topic: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing  (Read 9847 times)

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Offline G7PSK

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2020, 09:59:45 am »
I've seen primary lithium/SOCl2 (toxic) spew electrolyte all over the pcb at the 5-7 year point.
Tadiran now making "40-year Lifetime" claims in many publications  ::)
Bel Wafer style like TL-2186, TL-4986, TL-5186 - obsolete 2105 but replaced by TL-2450.
It's a laser-welded metal can and that seam corrodes and then the battery leaks HCL and kills the pcb.
Stainless steel is not proof against HCL you need a nickel based alloy for that so if lithium batteries are made from st/st they are bound to corrode and leak especially at welds. Under stress even mild steel performs better when exposed to chlorides.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2020, 01:02:10 am »
The laser-welds rough and nibbled/removed a fair bit of metal, so I think thin spots corroded. I don't know what metal the can is made of.

 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2020, 03:20:19 am »
Tadiran now making "40-year Lifetime" claims in many publications  ::)
Its not just Tadiran. There are a couple of US companies offering surface mount solid primary batteries which claim 30 or 40 years of life. You can only expect a small percentage of the capacity over those lives, though. The rest is lost to self leakage.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2020, 07:56:39 pm »
These are brand new, never been used, AAA Duracell Duralock batteries. Duracell marketing claims that
"Duralock technology keeps unused batteries fresh and powered for up to 10 years in ambient storage. So you can stock up on Duracell batteries without worry."

Well stocking up with these has made me regret it. They were bought a few years ago, and kept in a below ground room which has a relatively stable temperature. The date printed on the batteries is Dec 2025. The goop seems to come out of both + and - ends.

Definitely not the first time it has happened. Leaky batteries destroyed my triple-D Maglite. Had a to use a pipe wrench to open it after batteries corroded it shut.  I no longer keep alkaline batteries inside my devices. You can see the three AAA batteries for my headlamp, which I kept in a separate baggy next to it, and they got really messy.

Not only is buying these crappy batteries like throwing your money in the garbage, but they destroy your expensive devices too. And I can't trust them to take into situations where my safety depends on them.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 08:01:12 pm by timelessbeing »
 
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2020, 07:57:22 pm »
more photos
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #105 on: September 05, 2020, 07:58:34 pm »
more photos
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #106 on: September 05, 2020, 07:59:27 pm »
more photos
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2020, 01:02:39 am »

Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....



 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2020, 01:05:36 am »
Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....
Name a brand that isn't in 2020. I have yet to see a brand that is still making the trustworthy alkaline cells the better makers produced 30 years ago.
 

Online McBryce

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2020, 07:58:03 am »
I got fed up cleaning Duracell battery crap out of devices and moved to GP Brand batteries years ago. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't had a battery leak on me since then (and they're cheaper).

McBryce.
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2020, 10:54:08 am »
I got fed up cleaning Duracell battery crap out of devices and moved to GP Brand batteries years ago. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't had a battery leak on me since then (and they're cheaper).

McBryce.
I've had plenty of leaks from GP batteries. My 25 year old Sanwa multimeter looked like new until recently. A GP battery put an end to that. It was such a mess it had to go in the bin. I'm not criticising GP specifically. They seem no worse than any other option.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2020, 11:26:40 am »
Just took 8 AA Energiser batteries out, expiry in December 2025, and of them 2 were just starting to leak. Other 6 will be going into wall clock use, as there even if they leak they will just drip down out of the mechanism, and will probably not cause damage, and if they do a new clock mech is very cheap to buy.

There are no batteries left that do not leak, only ones I found that were not at all are a literal no name brand one, full white case with nothing printed on it, that came as the OEM batteries in Airmatic air freshener spray cans, which I never had leak. I would buy the full kit, because that came with the dispenser, 2 cans and these 2 batteries, for less than the cost of a single refill, as a promotional item.  Take the 2 cans out, keep the pack of 2 cells and toss the unused dispenser in the box of "stuff to ewaste", which all eventually landed up in that container going to China, except for those I stripped for the motor in them. Ladies at work wanted a "non poop" smell in the toilets, so these went in up high, set to the lowest rate they had, not the default high that you would think by using the power switch as a simple on off, not realising it has 3 time delay positions after off. 15 minutes, 10 minutes and 5 minutes, and of course just turning on all the way got you the 5 minute setting.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2020, 01:31:00 pm »
Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....
Name a brand that isn't in 2020. I have yet to see a brand that is still making the trustworthy alkaline cells the better makers produced 30 years ago.

Agree, it seems to be a dire situation.  I have given up on alkaline batteries altogether and now buy only rechargeable NiMH or Lithium primary batteries, both of which have been stable for me.  I try to avoid buying any batteries at all from Duracell just because I don't want to contribute a penny to a company that scams consumers and preys on their lack of knowledge.
 

Offline darik

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2020, 12:04:58 am »
Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....
Name a brand that isn't in 2020. I have yet to see a brand that is still making the trustworthy alkaline cells the better makers produced 30 years ago.

Agree, it seems to be a dire situation.  I have given up on alkaline batteries altogether and now buy only rechargeable NiMH or Lithium primary batteries, both of which have been stable for me.  I try to avoid buying any batteries at all from Duracell just because I don't want to contribute a penny to a company that scams consumers and preys on their lack of knowledge.

And what makes it worse is a couple of the use cases that alkalines are best for: long term storage in emergency devices like flashlights, and long term use in low power devices, are the exact situations in which they can least be trusted.

You absolutely _have_ to inspect them monthly. You just have to now.

I remember when alkalines literally never leaked. It was just crappy zinc carbons that would leak that brown crap that wasn't nearly as corrosive as what comes out of modern alkalines.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2020, 12:20:52 am »
Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....
Name a brand that isn't in 2020. I have yet to see a brand that is still making the trustworthy alkaline cells the better makers produced 30 years ago.

Agree, it seems to be a dire situation.  I have given up on alkaline batteries altogether and now buy only rechargeable NiMH or Lithium primary batteries, both of which have been stable for me.  I try to avoid buying any batteries at all from Duracell just because I don't want to contribute a penny to a company that scams consumers and preys on their lack of knowledge.

And what makes it worse is a couple of the use cases that alkalines are best for: long term storage in emergency devices like flashlights, and long term use in low power devices, are the exact situations in which they can least be trusted.

You absolutely _have_ to inspect them monthly. You just have to now.

I remember when alkalines literally never leaked. It was just crappy zinc carbons that would leak that brown crap that wasn't nearly as corrosive as what comes out of modern alkalines.

That's where the Lithium batteries come in.  They are very reliable, in my experience.  Unfortunately, you pay through the nose for that...
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2020, 12:52:02 am »
Duracell appears to simply be cheaply made garbage, sold with a 99% profit margin....
Name a brand that isn't in 2020. I have yet to see a brand that is still making the trustworthy alkaline cells the better makers produced 30 years ago.
I ve been having a good experience with IKEA Alkalisk AA batteries and moved to exclusively use them. Just a few days ago my thermostat stopped working, i opened it to replace the batteries and found a set of Alkalisks inside that i put in maybe 5 or 6 years ago. No sign of leak. They may not be the best capacity performer but are inexpensive for the performance they deliver.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2020, 11:18:45 pm »
My Duracell Double-A's did the same thing.

 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #117 on: September 29, 2020, 04:11:48 am »
the battery goop isn't exactly benign either. It has stained the lino surface on my bench, and even started eating to it.

 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #118 on: September 29, 2020, 03:00:56 pm »
the battery goop isn't exactly benign either. It has stained the lino surface on my bench, and even started eating to it.

Yep, and that kind of damage is excluded from the Durahell warranty...   only the device the hapless owner put them in is covered.  So when your $2 flashlight (covered) leaks and ruins your $2,000 mahogany desk (not covered), guess who's Durahell's little b!tch?
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #119 on: October 03, 2020, 11:15:14 am »
And what makes it worse is a couple of the use cases that alkalines are best for: long term storage in emergency devices like flashlights, and long term use in low power devices, are the exact situations in which they can least be trusted.

You absolutely _have_ to inspect them monthly. You just have to now.

Just leave the batteries next the the flashlight, not inside it.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #120 on: October 03, 2020, 01:20:45 pm »
And what makes it worse is a couple of the use cases that alkalines are best for: long term storage in emergency devices like flashlights, and long term use in low power devices, are the exact situations in which they can least be trusted.

You absolutely _have_ to inspect them monthly. You just have to now.

Just leave the batteries next the the flashlight, not inside it.

Might as well use a candle or an oil lamp if we are going to go in that direction!  In fact, those are my "back-ups for the back-up"...

The best solution, in my view, is to make all the Duracell cheap-ass quality problems go away by using Lithium primary cells in devices that very rarely get used.  They are not cheap, but definitely worth it.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #121 on: October 03, 2020, 06:27:09 pm »
I'm not going to feed $6 lithium batteries to my $3 wall clock.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #122 on: October 03, 2020, 10:40:06 pm »
I'm not going to feed $6 lithium batteries to my $3 wall clock.

They can run for 10 years...   it makes sense to me, at least...   the costs of other batteries add up too. 

Another factor is, why would I climb ladders to reach smoke alarms etc. any more often than I need to?   A battery that lasts 10 years or more is very appealing...
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #123 on: October 04, 2020, 02:57:44 am »
at the tiny currents a wall clock requires, the lithium battery AA will only last about 15% longer. Not worth the 2,000% higher cost.

I haven't seen a 9V smoke alarm battery leak yet.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: EEVblog #1274 - Long Term Alkaline Battery Leakage Testing
« Reply #124 on: October 04, 2020, 03:26:08 am »
at the tiny currents a wall clock requires, the lithium battery AA will only last about 15% longer.   [...]

Would you trust a modern alkaline not to leak over 10 years?  There are examples here on the EEVblog where people are finding them leaking before they've even been installed in any device...

Quote
I haven't seen a 9V smoke alarm battery leak yet.

Me neither, but in fairness, smoke alarms have their ways of making you change their batteries before they expire completely! -  I only get a couple of years or so out of ordinary alkaline.  I installed lithium everywhere around 3 years ago, and so far - knock on wood - they are holding up.  The benefit of lithium in that application is having more energy so they last longer.

9V battery leakage is fairly rare (but not completely unheard of) in my experience too, even when left to go completely flat.  Wonder why that is...

« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 03:28:30 am by SilverSolder »
 


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