EEVblog #1321 - SunPlower - DUMBEST IDEA Since Solar Roadways!

[EEVblog]

How is pointing out the obvious stupidity of a device a personal attack? So what if the “inventor” is named? The internet is a public place.

If the person behind this was deliberately trying to remain anonymous and I "outed" them or some such then that would be a problem. But this person is proudly putting their name behind this and attending public demonstrations and trade shows, so mentioning or showing their name or photo from a public event is fair game in reporting and criticism.

[KumarM]

What did I say that "personally attacked the founder"? Please be very specific.

Dave, Your video and comments are definitely out of line. You took a website and interview from when the company was 2 months old (I found that in the interview link you posted and website updates from wayback machine) and created a mocking video of the product and it's founders without even trying to reach out to its founder to understand where they are now? It literally took me 10 minutes after watching your video to understand this. Did you miss this in your research or intentionally miss it because it doesn't make a good story?

You are a business man, Obviously you had many ideas that took different form as they evolved with time. How would you like to be judged on the initial idea later and publicly criticizing without giving you opportunity?

Instead of creating +ve value in the community, you are creating a cesspool with your tone and  attitude. See the kind of behavior you are fostering (attached screenshot). Really? calling someone with 30 patents to their name, a janitor? 

I hope you will do the right thing.

Edit: fixed a typo.

[EEVblog]

What did I say that "personally attacked the founder"? Please be very specific.

Dave, Your video and comments are definitely out of line.

I asked you very specifically to cite examples were I said something that personally attacked the founder.
You have provided zero evidence, so that's it, I'm done discussing this.

You took a website and interview from when the company was 2 months old (I found that in the interview link you posted and website updates from wayback machine) and created a mocking video of the product and it's founders without even trying to reach out to its founder to understand where they are now? It literally took me 10 minutes after watching your video to understand this. Did you miss this in your research or intentionally miss it because it doesn't make a good story?

So tell us, where are they now?
Go on, enlighten us.
If they have newer stuff to show then it's not my fault it's not on their website. I can hardly be expected to do any more than base my engineering opinion on the data shown on their own website.

You are a business man, Obviously you had many ideas that took different form as they evolved with time. How would you like to be judged on the initial idea later and publicly criticizing without giving you opportunity?

If my idea was fundamentally stupid and doesn't even work on the back of an envelope then I expect to be laughed at by my fellow engineering community.

Instead of creating +ve value in the community, you are creating a cesspool with your tone and  attitude. See the kind of behavior you are fostering (attached screenshot). Really? calling someone with 30 patents to their name, a janitor? 

I am not responsible for what people write in the comments. I in fact did the founder a service by pointing out that he has 30 patents and has worked in top notch companies. Hardly "creating a cess pool"

I hope you will do the right thing.

I do the "right thing" by debunking ridiculous impractical ideas like this and helping people understand the value of doing some basic engineering first to evaluate the practicality of the idea.
If this project has simply been an inclined variable pitch blade wind turbine then I and other wouldn't have battered an eyelid. But the founder had to promote the demonstrably ridiculous idea of putting solar panels on the blades, and saying it will be transportation vehicle. This is demonstrable engineering lunacy!

Again, welcome to the world of engineering.

[KumarM]

I am not responsible for what people write in the comments.

You are not responsible for comments on your article but you have no problem quoting old interviews of others (That too when the company was 2 month old?) and you don't see the irony in that.

So tell us, where are they now?
Go on, enlighten us.
If they have newer stuff to show then it's not my fault it's not on their website.

Obviously I am not privy to where they are now and I don't expect any non web based startup to update their website with latest. But since you were doing a review of what they do, you had the moral and ethical reason to reach out and find out.


I am sure you had good intentions Dave and I definitely enjoy your content. But this is definitely not the right approach.

[EEVblog]

I am not responsible for what people write in the comments.

You are not responsible for comments on your article but you have no problem quoting old interviews of others (That too when the company was 2 month old?) and you don't see the irony in that.

You've gone from claims of "creating a cess pool" to simple "irony", nice backdown 

That really had nothing to do with the meat of the video!
This video is about laughing at the (again) demonstrably ridiculous claims of solar power blades, air-taxies that can carry people, and underwater propulsion, all with the same technology. Every engineer with any clue at all looks at this and laughs their arse off at such claims.

Again, noted that you have zero evidence for your claim of me personally attacking the founder. Care to withdraw that claim?

So tell us, where are they now?
Go on, enlighten us.
If they have newer stuff to show then it's not my fault it's not on their website.

Obviously I am not privy to where they are now and I don't expect any non web based startup to update their website with latest.
But since you were doing a review of what they do, you had the moral and ethical reason to reach out and find out.

Bullshit.
A company can live or die by the claims on their website.
If they have newer tech or demos that proves they are on the right track then they are free to post that in response. Heck I'll even link to their video, and they can join this forum and post here and explain how wonderful their technology is.

I am sure you had good intentions Dave and I definitely enjoy your content. But this is definitely not the right approach.

It's my channel and I'll do things my way. Again, the claims being made here are demonstrably ridiculous from an engineering perspective. It's fundamentally an impractical concept like solar roadways.
I can tell you what would happen if I had contacted the company. One of three things:
1) No response
2) Some more BS pointing to existing content, boasting about the founders credentials etc.
3) "Just wait, don't make a video until you see our demo coming soon" where of course "soon" never comes, because he idea is impratical

I've been making debunking videos for a decade, I have vast experience in claims like this and how companies never come through.

Why would they give me exclusive data they haven't revealed to the public? Even if they did, it's the CLAIMS they are making I take issue at. They cannot provide prove of this because it's obvious this technology will not work for the claims they are making.
They can easily prove me wrong by posting demos of their technology publicly.
Again, the three things I take aim at are the solar generation, the air-taxi, and the underwater propulsion claims. There is zero evidence they have even tried these things. Their demo is just a variable pitch turbine blade, and a quite frankly piss-weak feable looking design at that, that even a non-mechanical engineer like myself can see it won't scale for basic wind operation let alone the other ridiculous claims.

You post ridiculous engineering claims and you get laughed at, that's how this works. Again, welcome to engineering.

[Dubbie]

I would argue KumarM, that your attitude is actually far more harmful than Daves.
The space of engineering possibilities is absolutely vast. However the engineering possibilities that are actually practical are a tiny subset of the total possibility space. A good engineer should be able to quickly cut through all the unviable ideas whithout wasting too many precious resources, and spend time on ideas that actually have a chance of working.
I'm not saying that blue sky or cutting edge research is a waste of time, I'm saying that ideas which basic physics, economics and back of the envelope calculations say are impossible, should be put aside. (Sometimes constraints change with future technology developments and suddenly the unviable becomes viable). It's hard enough to make physically possible ideas commercially successful without adding being against the laws of physics or basic economics to your challenges!

Anyway, if you indulge widespread attitudes like yours, it very quickly turns into stupid wasteful million dollar cargo-cult projects such as solar roads. Dave has demonstrated many times over that there are an almost unlimited range of ways to spend that money more effectively. And yet effort and money is still poured down the drain on projects like this. Gone forever, with nothing of value to show.

[BravoV]

Looking at the reaction, intensity and the persistency, KumarM must be the founder or associate at the SunPlower.

I guess they're in the middle of approaching the victim eerr ... funding source, and bad luck happened at the wrong timing as Dave released this video, and the whole plan just went into trash can instantly. 

[wilfred]

Looking at the reaction, intensity and the persistency, KumarM must be the founder or associate at the SunPlower.

I guess they're in the middle of approaching the victim eerr ... funding source, and bad luck happened at the wrong timing as Dave released this video, and the whole plan just went into trash can instantly. 

The first thing to do is to establish Sunplower is an actual company before worrying about who might be a founder. It looks like a not very elaborate scam to make fools of the easily outraged or the associated nitwits who are equally easily deceived.

[KumarM]

Looking at the reaction, intensity and the persistency, KumarM must be the founder or associate at the SunPlower.

I guess they're in the middle of approaching the victim eerr ... funding source, and bad luck happened at the wrong timing as Dave released this video, and the whole plan just went into trash can instantly. 

Really? I registered with my work email. I am sure Dave as Admin has access to my email and ip address. I am in US and the company is in Germany. I am neither founder or associate  at SunPlower or have any financial interest in SunPlower.

By same logic does that mean BravoV (and everyone who defend Dave) is Dave pretending to be someone else or someone who works for Dave? Please stop this nonsense.

I didn't wanted to continue this argument as I realized Dave has no intension of changing his approaching (He made it clear that its his YouTube Channel and he will do what he wanted to. which is obviously his call to make as it is his channel). But you pulled me back with your comment. I will stop now and will not indulge further.

[EEVblog]

I didn't wanted to continue this argument as I realized Dave has no intension of changing his approaching (He made it clear that its his YouTube Channel and he will do what he wanted to. which is obviously his call to make as it is his channel). But you pulled me back with your comment. I will stop now and will not indulge further.

I've had the same approach for 11 years, with millions of views on my debunking videos and countless thanks from all but the people behind these ridiculous claims. Why on earth would I change because one person got upset that I called someones idea dumb and I didn't ask them to explain their dumb idea further?

Some things are just obviously dumb and impractical, this is one of them.
To use Thunderf00t's analogy which I like, if someone designed a frying pan made of chocolate, should everyone who wants to critique the design have to ask the designer about the design first before laughing at the practicality of it? Same thing here.

As for your claim about "journalistic standards", ok, sure, that would involve asking an independent subject matter expert for their opinion on the concept. Guess what, I'm that subject matter expert. That's the entire point of this channel. The designer has already provided ample information to critique the design concept, no further asking is required. Because, as I said, in my experience they will just spin more bullshit, or try to convince you not to do a video on it at all.

And do you still claim that I personally attacked the founder?

[nuclearcat]

If inventor has anything to say, he should be able to counter Dave claims by numbers, here in forum. It will be best promotion ever.
If he have them. And i think, he dont have them.
For example, I had an idea to create an air conditioner powered by the sun (without electricity), i will take my time and tediously count everything, especially the economic part, before putting it somewhere, so as not to be ridiculed for idiocy, for promoting idea that doesnt work in reality. Sometimes an idea needs to be worked out for a very long time in details, so that it stop looking idiotic.
Or for example extracting water from thin air, stuff Dave laughed at several times, theoretically possible, but of course not by using electrical solar panels.
And i can say for sure, that ideas is less wacky and at least solvable, i have some number to say, instead of questionable PoC and computer graphics of weird idea placing solar panels on the surface of a propulsion propeller.

[brabus]

(...)
I am sure technology sounds impossible and may be it is. But isn't that startup's should be striving for?
(...)

I am not sure you got the whole concept of "startup" right.

The goal is to make sensible business on economically and technically viable concepts, not striving for the demonstrably impossible.

Would you invest (i.e.: waste) your money on a technically unfeasible idea?

[BravoV]

(...)
I am sure technology sounds impossible and may be it is. But isn't that startup's should be striving for?
(...)

I am not sure you got the whole concept of "startup" right.

The goal is to make sensible business on economically and technically viable concepts, not striving for the demonstrably impossible.

Would you invest (i.e.: waste) your money on a technically unfeasible idea?

The ONLY reason KumarM joined this forum is to be a moral guru for Dave, as naughty Dave so cruelly shot down a new startup.

So when another new scam pop up, say like an inventor claims that able to convert sea water to gasoline cheapppppply  , and then when any blogger/press that shot it down, trust me, KumarM will act as knight of shinning armor to criticize them, exactly like now, a noble man. 

Btw, KumarM, is that you ? Siva RaghuRam Prasad Chennupati ? Or probably his son ? 

[jonovid]

looks like the gearbox is the so-called big secret, here.  a fail,  needs all of its power just to keep the orientation of the wind.

[SparkyFX]

looks like the gearbox is the so-called big secret, here.

A beveled planetary gear-ish construction (similar to . It is a very interesting mechanical concept and in itself fascinating in changing the angles from straight to perpendicular. But for wind power there is hardly a use for it, as straight on facing the wind with aerofoils gives considerably better efficiency. I guess thats where the "bolt solar panels to it" comes from.

[floobydust]

Inventors FIRST make a working prototype, proof of concept- before soliciting investors. Engineers knowing the Laws of Thermodynamics and Physics can spot a scam easily.

Something (fraud) has flipped this all backwards, so it's the fantasy you sell first to get money, and then try to make it work somewhat (Theranos) and giveup and leave town or go to jail 
It's just a rehash of snake oil.

[SparkyFX]

I've got to add that for wind and solar power generation a judgment solely based on efficiency needs to be seen in the context of the free primary energy source. In other words efficiency is not as important as we are used to in other sectors or in the subsequent power transmission. What counts is average system output power and the net energy output/CO2 footprint (usually neglegible... because its wind/solar and pays off quick).

Of course it matters how much bang you get per buck and lower efficiency means less output for a given location, then there are design considerations how much larger this would need to be to get comparable output power to offset efficiency differences, but if it allows to fill niches that were not covered before it might be worthwhile to consider them. So i think it might make sense to present such a concept.

Too bad it is presented next to applications that have better equivalents and in which this would really be a loss... and i'd agree that some energy harvesting ideas are pretty much ignorant to even basic considerations.

[Dubbie]

You are right SparkyFX. However if this is the case with the sunplower, then they need to lead front and center with identification of this niche, and justification for filling it.
Without that elephant in the room addressed, you’re just pretending at being an engineer.

[mikerj]

Wow what a disgraceful personal attack on a year old startup and its founder. When did we as a society become so cynical?

"Society" is nowhere near cynical enough, in fact many of it's members are downright gullible which is why bullshit schemes like this get any attention at all.

This forum has many professional engineers and keen hobbyists that are cynical because we have seen stupid, ill conceived power generation schemes come and go hundreds of times, and some basic critical thinking shows this is just another one.

[SparkyFX]

You are right SparkyFX. However if this is the case with the sunplower, then they need to lead front and center with identification of this niche, and justification for filling it.
Without that elephant in the room addressed, you’re just pretending at being an engineer.

Full ACK.

A comparison would be to ditch rooftop solar because tracked panels in solar parks perform considerably better. It also is a niche, but it does not matter, because it works good enough, far from being a total waste.

[VK3DRB]

Despite the rubbish published on their website, you can smell a rat when the website's inconsistent and illogical use of upper case in their sentences are not even to grade 5 primary school level . Any wonder they have no idea.
One might wonder if Sunplower is a subsidiary of "The Microsoft Help Desk" .