EEVblog #1337 - I Bought An Electric Car

[Gyro]

Looks like my care does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.
I thought that was a mandatory thing?

Yes, it's certainly mandatory in the UK - and other European countries that I know of. Our Kia has a reversing bleeper that uses the same speaker, it's a little annoying that it comes from the front of the car rather than the rear but is useful for shifting people standing in front of your parking space at the supermarket when you want to pull away!

[Lord of nothing]

I could not remember to hear anything from a E Car when the are driving so its maybe not everywhere mandatory.

[NiHaoMike]

The "missing link" is some way to convert the 300V - 400V main battery power directly to 115VAC, rather than going via the 12V system like I did, which is much more limited!

There are some fairly cheap inverter boards for that purpose. Just need to add a power tap with a properly rated DC breaker. Also note that switching supplies, including VFDs, will run from DC.

[radar_macgyver]

Looks like my care does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.
I thought that was a mandatory thing?

My GM Bolt EV has this, and it quit working one day (also triggered the check engine light). Turned out rabbits had chewed the wires.

Sounds like an opportunity for a creative electronics project -  how about generating the sound of a Maserati Bi-Turbo? 

I think manufacturers missed a big opportunity by not making the sound customizable. I would have made it sound like the Jetson's car, or maybe even the Flintstones

[Brumby]

That Jetson's car sound in the first 10 seconds would be a whole lot of fun!!

I'd just have to do that - but it would be selectable.  Not sure how it would go with our laws.

[SilverSolder]

The "missing link" is some way to convert the 300V - 400V main battery power directly to 115VAC, rather than going via the 12V system like I did, which is much more limited!

There are some fairly cheap inverter boards for that purpose. Just need to add a power tap with a properly rated DC breaker. Also note that switching supplies, including VFDs, will run from DC.

That is actually pretty cool, I never really considered how much stuff actually runs fine on DC.

The important thing for me is to run the fridge/freezers...   which I don't think will work off DC.

The question is, where to look for an affordable 300+VDC -->  120VAC inverter...

[NiHaoMike]

That is actually pretty cool, I never really considered how much stuff actually runs fine on DC.

The important thing for me is to run the fridge/freezers...   which I don't think will work off DC.

The question is, where to look for an affordable 300+VDC -->  120VAC inverter...

Here's one example of a cheap HVDC to AC sine wave inverter:
https://smile.amazon.com/Ccylez-Converter-Post-Stage-Correction-Workmanship/dp/B08BRYQC8B/
Some tweaking will be needed to adjust down the output voltage.

Or you might be able to find a VFD for cheap.

[SilverSolder]

That is actually pretty cool, I never really considered how much stuff actually runs fine on DC.

The important thing for me is to run the fridge/freezers...   which I don't think will work off DC.

The question is, where to look for an affordable 300+VDC -->  120VAC inverter...

Here's one example of a cheap HVDC to AC sine wave inverter:
https://smile.amazon.com/Ccylez-Converter-Post-Stage-Correction-Workmanship/dp/B08BRYQC8B/
Some tweaking will be needed to adjust down the output voltage.

Or you might be able to find a VFD for cheap.

Looks interesting!

The specs are a little confusing:
Pure Sinus Inverter Power Board Input voltage: DC380V.
Input voltage: AC16V.
Output voltage: AC220V.

What does it actually do -  DC380 to AC220?

[xmetal]

Looks like my care does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.
I thought that was a mandatory thing?

We used to use a peg and a piece of card on our bikes when I was a lad!

[maginnovision]

There you go, with those fan wheels you could add some whistlers, duck calls, small didgeridoo(maybe).

[coppice]

It isn't so much about using the battery, as it is about using the ICE/generator set in the car -  in other words, you let the car sit there and cycle the engine and provide power to the house, like a generator on wheels...

I did that during the last outage, but with a hybrid car (not a plug-in).  It just stood there, cycling the engine, as the power was consumed.  It did that for several days in a row with no ill effects.  The battery level was maintained within about a 20% window so not worse than actually driving the car in terms of wear.

The "missing link" is some way to convert the 300V - 400V main battery power directly to 115VAC, rather than going via the 12V system like I did, which is much more limited!

The reason for choosing PHEV rather than Hybrid for this, is simply to get longer cycles between the recharges, and of course the normal benefits of a PHEV when it is being used as a normal car.

Quite a few cars now have a 115V/230V AC socket that can put out 150W or so, for note book charging on the go. However, the new Honda E electric car has a 115V/230V AC socket that can put out 1500W. Its not clear why they have made it so high output, but its enough to run fairly substantial appliances. A couple of YouTube videos reviewing the car include the reviewer taking a microwave oven with them to cook their lunch while on location.

[Lord of nothing]

Maybe for a Death Ray Laser?
Or when you want to Upgrade your Car:

[NiHaoMike]

The specs are a little confusing:
Pure Sinus Inverter Power Board Input voltage: DC380V.
Input voltage: AC16V.
Output voltage: AC220V.

What does it actually do -  DC380 to AC220?

The 16V AC input is an auxiliary for powering the logic and gate drivers. Probably would work with DC as well, although it would have to be isolated.

It accepts DC at 380V and outputs sine wave AC at 220V. Most likely the voltage can be tweaked down by changing some resistor values to change the duty cycle.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Looks like my care does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.
I thought that was a mandatory thing?

Depends on regs in your country. In the EU it became mandatory for cars type-approved around last July, so the switch is no longer there as it can't be turned off.
It typically operates from 0-20mph in drive mode. Pretty sure yours will have one - just open the window and put it in drive - you should hear it easily enough

[Ed.Kloonk]

Looks like my car does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.

We used to use a peg and a piece of card on our bikes when I was a lad!

Fun times with the spokes.

I thought that was a mandatory thing?

I know you're old timer, but I hope you're not miss remembering the red flag rule applied when these new fangled horseless carriages first showed up on the scene.
 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws
 

[Kalvin]

Looks like my care does not have the VESS simulated engine noise sound system. Manual shows a button for it which my care doesn't have.
I thought that was a mandatory thing?

In the spirit of DIY, you could probably use this one as a starting point for the missing engine sound:

Anyway, you get the idea

[SilverSolder]

It isn't so much about using the battery, as it is about using the ICE/generator set in the car -  in other words, you let the car sit there and cycle the engine and provide power to the house, like a generator on wheels...

I did that during the last outage, but with a hybrid car (not a plug-in).  It just stood there, cycling the engine, as the power was consumed.  It did that for several days in a row with no ill effects.  The battery level was maintained within about a 20% window so not worse than actually driving the car in terms of wear.

The "missing link" is some way to convert the 300V - 400V main battery power directly to 115VAC, rather than going via the 12V system like I did, which is much more limited!

The reason for choosing PHEV rather than Hybrid for this, is simply to get longer cycles between the recharges, and of course the normal benefits of a PHEV when it is being used as a normal car.

Quite a few cars now have a 115V/230V AC socket that can put out 150W or so, for note book charging on the go. However, the new Honda E electric car has a 115V/230V AC socket that can put out 1500W. Its not clear why they have made it so high output, but its enough to run fairly substantial appliances. A couple of YouTube videos reviewing the car include the reviewer taking a microwave oven with them to cook their lunch while on location.

Interesting, that is a serious amount of power - and more than enough to get by in "survival mode".  Unfortunately, it is missing an ICE to keep the battery topped up! 


Here is what I'm using today - I bought a used one, I think they are installed on American utility trucks.  This guy will start and run the fridge/freezer.   The problem with it, is that it is capable of using almost 150 amps from the 12V circuit, which is too much for most cars...  I monitor it and keep the current below 80A which seems to not overpower the car's generating capabilities.

[bsdphk]

I have always felt that precisely this is evidence that Elon Musk is devoid of any sense of humour.

If I had designed the Roadster, the driver would be able to select the exterior sound on the fly, and amongst the factory installed choices would be "Citroën 2CV", "Wartburg", "Lawmower", "Tractor", "1-cylinder Fishing boat" etc.

[Lord of nothing]

  How about a Tank sound for the Tesla Truck? 

[SilverSolder]

This engine shows how far we've come...   Our ancestors obviously didn't believe in high RPMs!  -  the shaking camera footage out on the water totally captures the experience of one of these boats. 

The sound is nothing short of TOTAL awesomeness! 

[Lord of nothing]

it is missing an ICE to keep the battery topped up!

The are often operate multiple time during the Day.

[Poe]

The Nissan Leaf sold in Australia appears to be made in Japan and the Hyundai in Korea.  MSRP in Japan for 2020 S model starts at $32k.  Wonder why so expensive in Australia, before taxes.  Shipping can't be that much for a place so close.

Does the Nissan actually get worse Km per Wh? Some car manufacturers report the total battery capacity.  Some manufacturers report usable capacity.  That is to say, if Nissan is reporting total capacity, but only using <88% of the battery to get the 150mile range numbers, it might actually get the same or more miles per Watt.  Many of the better manufacturers limit the total usable capacity of the battery to increase lifespan.... or just put in an adequately massive battery so you're rarely ever using most of it (Model S).

[SeanB]

The Nissan Leaf sold in Australia appears to be made in Japan and the Hyundai in Korea.  MSRP in Japan for 2020 S model starts at $32k.  Wonder why so expensive in Australia, before taxes.  Shipping can't be that much for a place so close.

Does the Nissan actually get worse Km per Wh? Some car manufacturers report the total battery capacity.  Some manufacturers report usable capacity.  That is to say, if Nissan is reporting total capacity, but only using <88% of the battery to get the 150mile range numbers, it might actually get the same or more miles per Watt.  Many of the better manufacturers limit the total usable capacity of the battery to increase lifespan.... or just put in an adequately massive battery so you're rarely ever using most of it (Model S).

Import duties on what is regarded as a luxury vehicle no doubt, based on the mass block it occupies and power output. Only incentive to buy one is that electric power is not levied for road taxes when used for EV use, so the fuel cost is artificially low, but that will change when governments figure out how lucrative it can be milking the tax payer by keeping the duty just below the cost of fuel, and simultaneously increasing duty on fuel for road use even higher, once there is a large enough base of EV's that it starts to eat into fuel levy revenues.

[SilverSolder]

The Nissan Leaf sold in Australia appears to be made in Japan and the Hyundai in Korea.  MSRP in Japan for 2020 S model starts at $32k.  Wonder why so expensive in Australia, before taxes.  Shipping can't be that much for a place so close.

Does the Nissan actually get worse Km per Wh? Some car manufacturers report the total battery capacity.  Some manufacturers report usable capacity.  That is to say, if Nissan is reporting total capacity, but only using <88% of the battery to get the 150mile range numbers, it might actually get the same or more miles per Watt.  Many of the better manufacturers limit the total usable capacity of the battery to increase lifespan.... or just put in an adequately massive battery so you're rarely ever using most of it (Model S).

Import duties on what is regarded as a luxury vehicle no doubt, based on the mass block it occupies and power output. Only incentive to buy one is that electric power is not levied for road taxes when used for EV use, so the fuel cost is artificially low, but that will change when governments figure out how lucrative it can be milking the tax payer by keeping the duty just below the cost of fuel, and simultaneously increasing duty on fuel for road use even higher, once there is a large enough base of EV's that it starts to eat into fuel levy revenues.

They will find a way to dye electricity,  so cheap electricity sold for heating cannot be used in an EV!   Are those red electrons I see in your battery, Sir?   

[EEVblog]

The Nissan Leaf sold in Australia appears to be made in Japan and the Hyundai in Korea.  MSRP in Japan for 2020 S model starts at $32k.  Wonder why so expensive in Australia, before taxes.  Shipping can't be that much for a place so close.

Does the Nissan actually get worse Km per Wh? Some car manufacturers report the total battery capacity.  Some manufacturers report usable capacity.  That is to say, if Nissan is reporting total capacity, but only using <88% of the battery to get the 150mile range numbers, it might actually get the same or more miles per Watt.  Many of the better manufacturers limit the total usable capacity of the battery to increase lifespan.... or just put in an adequately massive battery so you're rarely ever using most of it (Model S).

Import duties on what is regarded as a luxury vehicle no doubt, based on the mass block it occupies and power output.

No, the LEAF is well under the luxury car tax threshold.